For some reason I can't quote at the moment, but to be fair @The_President the Australian team in 1978/79 was piss poor due to Packer which affected them much more than us, never even heard of several of their players, I'd fancy our current England team to beat them!
It says it all though, our most recent win in Perth was against an Australian B team...
GM Wood WM Darling KJ Hughes GN Yallop (c) PM Toohey GJ Cosier JA Maclean † B Yardley RM Hogg G Dymock AG Hurst
I wouldn't call that team piss poor. Rodney Hogg was an excellent fast bowler and he took 41 wickets in the series. Most of that team continued to play for Australia when the Packer players returned.
A few memories of that series.....
Wood running out Cosier (or was it the other way around?) very early on in Brisbane. It seemed to set the tone.
Randall's brilliant match winning big hundred in Sydney.
Yallop's questionable captaincy.
Rick Darling almost being killed by a Willis short ball, just as he was starting to look promising.
On the plus side for Australia; they had the best bowler in the series (Hogg) and later on we saw the emergence of Allan Border. They had some other good players; Toohey and Hurst had pretty good series. Wood became a very decent opener and Hughes had some class.
Their spinners Yardley and Higgs were ok but not as good as Emburey and Miller (who probably had his best series for England). Australia struggled to find a decent all-rounder (like England are struggling now). They started with Trevor Laughlin and later brought in a very ordinary all-rounder called Phil Carlson.
We had a much better keeper (Bob Taylor) and they changed theirs after a couple of games from Maclean to Kevin Wright....neither of whom were Test Class.
Bottom line was, that without Greg Chappell, Jeff Thomson (injured?) Lillee, Mallett, Marsh etc, the Aussies were short of class. England didn't really miss Knott, Underwood or Greig because we had class back-up...Taylor plus the emerging Emburey and Gooch.
I am all for clever sledging and winding up of the opposition. But when comments are passed about a dead relative. That has no place in sport or anywhere else. If somebody made a derogatory comment about my dead Father I would wrap the bat around their head.
I really hope the Aussies haven't said anything about his Dad, (not saying they have) but it seems to me like that is what he is referring too
Bob Willis referred to Bairstow being targeted with "particular personal" comments that crossed the line. Perhaps the likes of Bancroft, Handscombe and even Warne should concentrate on their own game because they have hardly been great successes with the bat so far.
Has Shane come out of retirement?
Aussies can be bastards, we know that. However you have to be mentally tough at this level and ignore it, despite the personal or cruel nature of the sledging.
I am all for clever sledging and winding up of the opposition. But when comments are passed about a dead relative. That has no place in sport or anywhere else. If somebody made a derogatory comment about my dead Father I would wrap the bat around their head.
I really don't think that some cricketers recognise the line when it comes to sledging. Not just personal but who you say it to and who you don't. Say it to a Lara or a Tendulkar, for example, and you've just massively diminished your chances of getting them out.
Unfortunately the less than funny element of sledging has reached the lower ranks of club cricket - absolutely nothing wrong with a comment to a young player taking an off stump guard such as "you've been watching too much TV son, one miss and you're gone". But the threat to a 13 year old, from an ex 1st team player dropping down to a level he deems below him of "I'm going to knock your fxxxxxx block off you do that again", after he has been hit for a boundary, is totally out of order.
So why do umpires not do more? Well in the professional game there should not be anything preventing them from reporting the players. However, I know of one well known umpire who has been consistently marked down by the participating teams for doing so on the basis of being "too officious" and as a result this has had an affect on his chance of progressing in the game.
At the highest level of club cricket there are panel umpires appointed and they do have the power to take action. But they have to be able to clearly hear what is said and be willing to report those players with the associated paper work.
You then get to the level where the umpires are qualified but volunteers and attached to one of the clubs playing. Are they going to be strong enough to issue yellow and red cards and report one of their own players? Are the two umpires going to have their own dispute about what's gone on? And finally you have the situation of non qualified or even one of the participating players where all that can be done is for one club to report the other. And then it becomes a "he said that and he did that etc etc"
And clubs wonder why they can't get umpires. Probably because they don't need the hassle.
Let a just be clear before we get carries away there is nothing out there suggesting any of the Aussies have said something about JB's father. The article in the BBC that features the comments from Bairstow focus only on the sledging about the headbutt incident.
If anything was said about his father I hope Bairstow would walk straight off the pitch and take the rest of the side with him.
Let a just be clear before we get carries away there is nothing out there suggesting any of the Aussies have said something about JB's father. The article in the BBC that features the comments from Bairstow focus only on the sledging about the headbutt incident.
If anything was said about his father I hope Bairstow would walk straight off the pitch and take the rest of the side with him.
Canters, I think you're being a bit naive here - a player is simply not going to do that especially if he is batting. All that happens is that the person who says such things becomes enemy number one and the sledging ends up escalating.
This wasn't just about the head butt. Joe Root made a deliberate reference in his press conference to what is acceptable and that both sides need to be respectful in this regard. Bob Willis, who defended sledging as part of the game, has categorically stated that two of England's players were specifically targeted with personal comments, one of whom was Bairstow. Willis went on to say that, if what he has heard was said is true (and he would be pretty close to the England camp), then that is absolutely disgraceful.
When Clarke told Anderson that he was going to get his arm broken a lot of people were shocked by it. I suspect though that this is the norm and that the only difference is that Clarke was "unlucky" enough to be caught by the stump mike.
They should mic up a little more heavily around the wickets.
Sledging is fine, rivalry is fine, some spite of the moment swearing is also fine. But there is a line, if it wouldn't be allowed in other sports why should it be allowed within Cricket? If amateurs started saying this stuff, what impression is that to leave on the learning youngsters?
Let a just be clear before we get carries away there is nothing out there suggesting any of the Aussies have said something about JB's father. The article in the BBC that features the comments from Bairstow focus only on the sledging about the headbutt incident.
If anything was said about his father I hope Bairstow would walk straight off the pitch and take the rest of the side with him.
Bob Willis mentioned that comments about his father were heard through the stump mike.
Let a just be clear before we get carries away there is nothing out there suggesting any of the Aussies have said something about JB's father. The article in the BBC that features the comments from Bairstow focus only on the sledging about the headbutt incident.
If anything was said about his father I hope Bairstow would walk straight off the pitch and take the rest of the side with him.
Bob Willis mentioned that comments about his father were heard through the stump mike.
Let a just be clear before we get carries away there is nothing out there suggesting any of the Aussies have said something about JB's father. The article in the BBC that features the comments from Bairstow focus only on the sledging about the headbutt incident.
If anything was said about his father I hope Bairstow would walk straight off the pitch and take the rest of the side with him.
Bob Willis mentioned that comments about his father were heard through the stump mike.
What Willis says and what bairstiw has said arent matching up.
If it was captured over stump mic a lot more would be being made of it and calls for bans would be happening. I'm not saying it didn't happen bit there is nothing at the moment to suggest it did.
If there is any evidence then I hope the proper courses of action are being pursued and I hope whoever said it gets a long ban. No place in any sport for anything like that.
AA maybe I am being naive but if I was on thebpiych and I heard something along those lines, from someone who knows the background, then I would straight off and taking the team with me.
Sport should be played with a smile on your face. If you lose that what's the point?
This isn't about crossing the line. This is smashing the line and continuing for another mile or 12.
Let a just be clear before we get carries away there is nothing out there suggesting any of the Aussies have said something about JB's father. The article in the BBC that features the comments from Bairstow focus only on the sledging about the headbutt incident.
If anything was said about his father I hope Bairstow would walk straight off the pitch and take the rest of the side with him.
Bob Willis mentioned that comments about his father were heard through the stump mike.
What Willis says and what bairstiw has said arent matching up.
If it was captured over stump mic a lot more would be being made of it and calls for bans would be happening. I'm not saying it didn't happen bit there is nothing at the moment to suggest it did.
If there is any evidence then I hope the proper courses of action are being pursued and I hope whoever said it gets a long ban. No place in any sport for anything like that.
AA maybe I am being naive but if I was on thebpiych and I heard something along those lines, from someone who knows the background, then I would straight off and taking the team with me.
Sport should be played with a smile on your face. If you lose that what's the point?
This isn't about crossing the line. This is smashing the line and continuing for another mile or 12.
I'm not disagreeing that it is totally out of order - if I had my way there would be no sledging whatsoever. However, these are professional sportsmen who are paid and contracted to play and once one person walks off for something that is said, where does it stop? What one person finds offensive and justification to do so, another might not.
There are three ways to prevent it. One is for umpires to be far tougher than they are and for the authorities to back them with appropriate punishments. Another is for those TV companies that do cover the sport to make what is said publicly known - I'm sure that those who do step over the line won't be quite so comfortable doing so if this were the case if only for the fact that it would affect them in the pocket vis a vis their relationship with sponsors. The other is for the recipient of that abuse to use it to galvanise themselves in to becoming a better player.
Let a just be clear before we get carries away there is nothing out there suggesting any of the Aussies have said something about JB's father. The article in the BBC that features the comments from Bairstow focus only on the sledging about the headbutt incident.
If anything was said about his father I hope Bairstow would walk straight off the pitch and take the rest of the side with him.
Bob Willis mentioned that comments about his father were heard through the stump mike.
What Willis says and what bairstiw has said arent matching up.
If it was captured over stump mic a lot more would be being made of it and calls for bans would be happening. I'm not saying it didn't happen bit there is nothing at the moment to suggest it did.
If there is any evidence then I hope the proper courses of action are being pursued and I hope whoever said it gets a long ban. No place in any sport for anything like that.
AA maybe I am being naive but if I was on thebpiych and I heard something along those lines, from someone who knows the background, then I would straight off and taking the team with me.
Sport should be played with a smile on your face. If you lose that what's the point?
This isn't about crossing the line. This is smashing the line and continuing for another mile or 12.
I'm not disagreeing that it is totally out of order - if I had my way there would be no sledging whatsoever. However, these are professional sportsmen who are paid and contracted to play and once one person walks off for something that is said, where does it stop? What one person finds offensive and justification to do so, another might not.
There are three ways to prevent it. One is for umpires to be far tougher than they are and for the authorities to back them with appropriate punishments. Another is for those TV companies that do cover the sport to make what is said publicly known - I'm sure that those who do step over the line won't be quite so comfortable doing so if this were the case if only for the fact that it would affect them in the pocket vis a vis their relationship with sponsors. The other is for the recipient of that abuse to use it to galvanise themselves in to becoming a better player.
and Cricket itself to make the point that behaviour of this sort is just so wrong ..the Media seem to think that verbals etc add spice /sell advertising ..its not its just a desecration of a wonderful game ..
Let a just be clear before we get carries away there is nothing out there suggesting any of the Aussies have said something about JB's father. The article in the BBC that features the comments from Bairstow focus only on the sledging about the headbutt incident.
If anything was said about his father I hope Bairstow would walk straight off the pitch and take the rest of the side with him.
He states that the sledging he is referring to was not about the head-butting and, that if it happens again, he will take it further. Shouldn't speculate but Willis' comments seem to support that it was regarding his late Dad.
Sorry Bayliss but I totally disagree with you. "Sometimes those emotions boil over" is no excuse - the greatest sportsmen have the greatest self discipline:
Stump microphones should be turned down so television viewers cannot hear the sledging which occurs on the field, says England head coach Trevor Bayliss.
Bayliss said he did not think it was "a great thing for young kids watching at home" to hear the sledging.
"It adds to the spectacle when you're playing but I don't think anybody has to listen to everything," he added.
"I'd like to see the stump microphones turned down.
"It's grown men playing a very competitive sport and sometimes those emotions boil over."
Both teams have tried to undermine their opponents on the field in a fractious contest, with England noticeably keen to engage Australia captain Steve Smith in some heated exchanges when he batted on day one in Adelaide.
A similar pattern continued on day two when Stuart Broad roared in the direction of Peter Handscomb after trapping the batsman lbw for 36.
Bayliss, however, believes such incidents are often blown out of proportion.
"Sometimes more is made of it in the press than what happens on the field," the Australian said. "After the series, the boys sit together and have a beer. It's the way things are and how the game is played."
It has to be witty, be that witty in a tense, aggressive manner or witty in an outright humourous way.
I'm one of the minority that whilst absolutely loving James Anderson I find his own version of sledging monotony in the extreme. Ball gets slung down at Sri Lankan number 9 and he's yelling wanker after it. That's just plain, boring, abuse and whilst I'm thick skinned enough to roll my eyes at something like that, it got up my nose that he didn't have anything else in his locker.
Nasser Hussein, Michael Atherton and Michael Vaughan have been picked up on microphones having exchanges with pug faced, rabid Australians and end up making the sledger look utterly stupid. I've heard Flintoff, Warne, Mike Hussey, Ian Bell, Angelo Matthews and loads others have some real witty back and forth and for our players not to have comebacks or to have a whinge about sledging is enormously weak and disappointing from a supporters perspective.
If the convicts are just plain hurling abuse then the best thing is to not engage but you can't then moan about it. Respond by focussing on not wafting at a delivery heading to first slip. The Aussies never complained to my recollection about Anderson just screaming obscenity after obscenity, they got on with it.
I can't see much mental fragility in the Australian team apart from Smith not having much courage of conviction but at the crease he seems fine.
What I agree with, is there is a line. Australians under Smith are never going to know what that is, if a line has been crossed and let's say they were getting on at Bairstow about his father then that is unacceptable but should've been dealt with by the 2 captains not spilt on in a column
One of the main things though is that its a particularly Australian disease. (thats not to say that other teams dont do it, but definitely not to the degree or ferocity of the Ozzies ) - its a horrible piece of cricket that several teams complain about in Oz - about time someone did something about it. Mabe a bat round someones head might make someone jump up and listen.
tbh , i'd like to see Jonny lose it and start whacking someone - especially if Stokes was at the other end! For one thing it would force the authorities to do something - after all it is a real slimy shit stain that the Aussies think is acceptable - and also it would all come out in the press as to the ozzie wankers who were saying it.
'As he strode to the wicket to begin his first Test innings in Australia, David Warner immediately piped up from gully. “You’re batting a place too high,” he chided England’s new No6 batsman.
Moeen didn’t miss a beat. “I’m batting two places too high, mate,” he retorted.
Alas, you fear the joke was rather lost on Warner – “it went straight over his head,” Moeen observes with a dry smirk'
'As he strode to the wicket to begin his first Test innings in Australia, David Warner immediately piped up from gully. “You’re batting a place too high,” he chided England’s new No6 batsman.
Moeen didn’t miss a beat. “I’m batting two places too high, mate,” he retorted.
Alas, you fear the joke was rather lost on Warner – “it went straight over his head,” Moeen observes with a dry smirk'
I'd rather be 2 nil up than dishing out witty retorts.
Really don't like all this crap about the Aussies being nasty and crossing imaginary lines. It's the Ashes, it's the only thing that still keeps my interest in cricket these days. I have been obsessed with the game since I was 5 years old.
Ben Duckett now dropped from his tour after an incident in a Perth bar. You’d think the cricketers would think twice before getting into some trouble after stokes incident. Idiots.
Comments
Wood running out Cosier (or was it the other way around?) very early on in Brisbane. It seemed to set the tone.
Randall's brilliant match winning big hundred in Sydney.
Yallop's questionable captaincy.
Rick Darling almost being killed by a Willis short ball, just as he was starting to look promising.
On the plus side for Australia; they had the best bowler in the series (Hogg) and later on we saw the emergence of Allan Border. They had some other good players; Toohey and Hurst had pretty good series. Wood became a very decent opener and Hughes had some class.
Their spinners Yardley and Higgs were ok but not as good as Emburey and Miller (who probably had his best series for England). Australia struggled to find a decent all-rounder (like England are struggling now). They started with Trevor Laughlin and later brought in a very ordinary all-rounder called Phil Carlson.
We had a much better keeper (Bob Taylor) and they changed theirs after a couple of games from Maclean to Kevin Wright....neither of whom were Test Class.
Bottom line was, that without Greg Chappell, Jeff Thomson (injured?) Lillee, Mallett, Marsh etc, the Aussies were short of class. England didn't really miss Knott, Underwood or Greig because we had class back-up...Taylor plus the emerging Emburey and Gooch.
Aussies can be bastards, we know that. However you have to be mentally tough at this level and ignore it, despite the personal or cruel nature of the sledging.
Unfortunately the less than funny element of sledging has reached the lower ranks of club cricket - absolutely nothing wrong with a comment to a young player taking an off stump guard such as "you've been watching too much TV son, one miss and you're gone". But the threat to a 13 year old, from an ex 1st team player dropping down to a level he deems below him of "I'm going to knock your fxxxxxx block off you do that again", after he has been hit for a boundary, is totally out of order.
So why do umpires not do more? Well in the professional game there should not be anything preventing them from reporting the players. However, I know of one well known umpire who has been consistently marked down by the participating teams for doing so on the basis of being "too officious" and as a result this has had an affect on his chance of progressing in the game.
At the highest level of club cricket there are panel umpires appointed and they do have the power to take action. But they have to be able to clearly hear what is said and be willing to report those players with the associated paper work.
You then get to the level where the umpires are qualified but volunteers and attached to one of the clubs playing. Are they going to be strong enough to issue yellow and red cards and report one of their own players? Are the two umpires going to have their own dispute about what's gone on? And finally you have the situation of non qualified or even one of the participating players where all that can be done is for one club to report the other. And then it becomes a "he said that and he did that etc etc"
And clubs wonder why they can't get umpires. Probably because they don't need the hassle.
If anything was said about his father I hope Bairstow would walk straight off the pitch and take the rest of the side with him.
This wasn't just about the head butt. Joe Root made a deliberate reference in his press conference to what is acceptable and that both sides need to be respectful in this regard. Bob Willis, who defended sledging as part of the game, has categorically stated that two of England's players were specifically targeted with personal comments, one of whom was Bairstow. Willis went on to say that, if what he has heard was said is true (and he would be pretty close to the England camp), then that is absolutely disgraceful.
When Clarke told Anderson that he was going to get his arm broken a lot of people were shocked by it. I suspect though that this is the norm and that the only difference is that Clarke was "unlucky" enough to be caught by the stump mike.
Sledging is fine, rivalry is fine, some spite of the moment swearing is also fine. But there is a line, if it wouldn't be allowed in other sports why should it be allowed within Cricket? If amateurs started saying this stuff, what impression is that to leave on the learning youngsters?
They're (Aussies) thick.
If it was captured over stump mic a lot more would be being made of it and calls for bans would be happening. I'm not saying it didn't happen bit there is nothing at the moment to suggest it did.
If there is any evidence then I hope the proper courses of action are being pursued and I hope whoever said it gets a long ban. No place in any sport for anything like that.
AA maybe I am being naive but if I was on thebpiych and I heard something along those lines, from someone who knows the background, then I would straight off and taking the team with me.
Sport should be played with a smile on your face. If you lose that what's the point?
This isn't about crossing the line. This is smashing the line and continuing for another mile or 12.
There are three ways to prevent it. One is for umpires to be far tougher than they are and for the authorities to back them with appropriate punishments. Another is for those TV companies that do cover the sport to make what is said publicly known - I'm sure that those who do step over the line won't be quite so comfortable doing so if this were the case if only for the fact that it would affect them in the pocket vis a vis their relationship with sponsors. The other is for the recipient of that abuse to use it to galvanise themselves in to becoming a better player.
Law 41.4 and 41.5 also 41.19 seem to me to offer the appropriate scope.
A few 5 runs penalties within the same innings might concentrate a few minds.
https://www.lords.org/mcc/laws-of-cricket/laws/law-41-unfair-play/
There is a school of thought that, if implemented, 'Penalty Runs' might soon have a higher average than some of England's batsmen.
The Preamble to the Laws is also relevant. Umpires have a duty to consider the Preamble as well as the Laws.
https://www.lords.org/mcc/laws-of-cricket/preamble-to-the-laws/
He states that the sledging he is referring to was not about the head-butting and, that if it happens again, he will take it further. Shouldn't speculate but Willis' comments seem to support that it was regarding his late Dad.
Stump microphones should be turned down so television viewers cannot hear the sledging which occurs on the field, says England head coach Trevor Bayliss.
Bayliss said he did not think it was "a great thing for young kids watching at home" to hear the sledging.
"It adds to the spectacle when you're playing but I don't think anybody has to listen to everything," he added.
"I'd like to see the stump microphones turned down.
"It's grown men playing a very competitive sport and sometimes those emotions boil over."
Both teams have tried to undermine their opponents on the field in a fractious contest, with England noticeably keen to engage Australia captain Steve Smith in some heated exchanges when he batted on day one in Adelaide.
A similar pattern continued on day two when Stuart Broad roared in the direction of Peter Handscomb after trapping the batsman lbw for 36.
Bayliss, however, believes such incidents are often blown out of proportion.
"Sometimes more is made of it in the press than what happens on the field," the Australian said. "After the series, the boys sit together and have a beer. It's the way things are and how the game is played."
It has to be witty, be that witty in a tense, aggressive manner or witty in an outright humourous way.
I'm one of the minority that whilst absolutely loving James Anderson I find his own version of sledging monotony in the extreme. Ball gets slung down at Sri Lankan number 9 and he's yelling wanker after it. That's just plain, boring, abuse and whilst I'm thick skinned enough to roll my eyes at something like that, it got up my nose that he didn't have anything else in his locker.
Nasser Hussein, Michael Atherton and Michael Vaughan have been picked up on microphones having exchanges with pug faced, rabid Australians and end up making the sledger look utterly stupid. I've heard Flintoff, Warne, Mike Hussey, Ian Bell, Angelo Matthews and loads others have some real witty back and forth and for our players not to have comebacks or to have a whinge about sledging is enormously weak and disappointing from a supporters perspective.
If the convicts are just plain hurling abuse then the best thing is to not engage but you can't then moan about it. Respond by focussing on not wafting at a delivery heading to first slip. The Aussies never complained to my recollection about Anderson just screaming obscenity after obscenity, they got on with it.
I can't see much mental fragility in the Australian team apart from Smith not having much courage of conviction but at the crease he seems fine.
What I agree with, is there is a line. Australians under Smith are never going to know what that is, if a line has been crossed and let's say they were getting on at Bairstow about his father then that is unacceptable but should've been dealt with by the 2 captains not spilt on in a column
Saying something about a players late father is disgusting
'As he strode to the wicket to begin his first Test innings in Australia, David Warner immediately piped up from gully. “You’re batting a place too high,” he chided England’s new No6 batsman.
Moeen didn’t miss a beat. “I’m batting two places too high, mate,” he retorted.
Alas, you fear the joke was rather lost on Warner – “it went straight over his head,” Moeen observes with a dry smirk'
Really don't like all this crap about the Aussies being nasty and crossing imaginary lines. It's the Ashes, it's the only thing that still keeps my interest in cricket these days. I have been obsessed with the game since I was 5 years old.