How many teams in L1 have a strong squad?
With the right manager and the current squad should we be looking at a playoff place or is our squad not up to it?
The Bury squad didn't look particularly strong yet they were well organised and held out relatively comfortably against us on Saturday for a draw.
Would another manager make a difference or are we just destined for L1 mediocrity or worse until RD sells up?
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With the right manager and the current squad should we be looking at a playoff place or is our squad not up to it?
We should be making playoffs. I can't see us doing anything special though, not under Robinson.
I'll take us scraping play offs, followed by promotion.0 -
Very true, we're similar to lots of other squads in this division.
Hence why were 7th and not points clear despite having the richest owner in the league and one of the highest wage bills.
It's being similar to Bury or Scunthorpe that people are unhappy about.
A thin squad is a reason, with our resources it shouldn't be an excuse.4 -
Doing badly have a day off0
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It's really only our lack of proper striker options.
But it could prove to be the achilles heel of the team effort this season.
I can't imagine there's another team in the division with a squad lacking so obviously in striker cover.
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In defence and central midfield we have very strong options and cover and even in the attacking midfield roles we should have enough options, we have been a bit unlucky with Marshall and Reeves but once they are back in we have no issues. The lack of cover up top is the real issue and there is no excuse for having only one proven striker in the squad.4
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Problem is we are relying on our midfielders to score goals, the majority of these goals will come from outside the box and that's not going to happen every game. Maggneis I think will hit 10-15 goals, the man is brilliant in the air but not every cross is going to hit the desired target. We have no one who can pick up the scraps in and around the six yard box, that's what we are missing. How many stunning goals (either on an individual or team basis) have we scored this year and how many scraps have we got in and around the six yard box.0
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I actually think it's more complicated than our well documented lack of strikers/ cover.
We have conceded more goals than any team above us (12) and you need to look at Fleetwood in tenth place to find the next highest team conceding more. (15)
Interestingly tomorrow's opponents Wallsall in thirteenth place are the next team conceding more than us on 16. They also score goals too. 13 which might make for another high scoring game.
I think there are problems at both ends to be honest.
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our squad is unbalanced .. too light on 'strikers', too many (inexperienced) midfielders, too many central defenders, too few full backs and a goalkeeper short .. also we lack 'muscle' in the side .. too many small players ..
and yes I know that 'Barca' had a few shrimps in their glorious heyday but they were backed up by some big uns as well0 -
but I avoided the question .. number wise we are on a par with and better than most .. but as above, the question is one of balance1
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The squad is a few players short but some exaggerate the problem. It's ok to have a few youngsters on the bench and if they're good enough they should definitely be part of the squad.
I guess the concern is if we get 4/5 injuries we'll be playing several inexperienced players together. Another weakness is perhaps that the squad is set up for 4-2-3-1, we don't really have the players to adapt to say 4-4-2 and a more direct physical game.
We haven't had 5/6 players feature in 40+ league games since Powell was here. If the team is more settled and fitness managed better we shouldn't pick up as many injuries and depth won't be as much of an issue as in the last few years.
We should have had another proven striker and a winger rather than KAG to give us 2 per position for the '3'.
An experienced CM would have been nice but Konsa, Aribo and Dijksteel all have potential. Would rather have them than Crofts or similar.
Ideally we'd have signed GK and sent Phillips on loan, but that's more of a problem for Phillips himself than a weakness to the squad.
We'll get by with Dijksteel, Konsa or Barnes covering Solly. Need Page fit to cover Dasilva - hopefully he'll improve on his performances last season.0 - Sponsored links:
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JFC is the one player (who like Jacko) likes bursting late into the box, based on that I can see him scoring more goals than Clarke this seasonNorthstandpieeater said:Problem is we are relying on our midfielders to score goals, the majority of these goals will come from outside the box and that's not going to happen every game. Maggneis I think will hit 10-15 goals, the man is brilliant in the air but not every cross is going to hit the desired target. We have no one who can pick up the scraps in and around the six yard box, that's what we are missing. How many stunning goals (either on an individual or team basis) have we scored this year and how many scraps have we got in and around the six yard box.
Agreed, the lack of clean sheets is very concerning, our midfield is too easily bypassed, with defensive weaknesses especially down the flanks.ShootersHillGuru said:I actually think it's more complicated than our well documented lack of strikers/ cover.
We have conceded more goals than any team above us (12) and you need to look at Fleetwood in tenth place to find the next highest team conceding more. (15)
Interestingly tomorrow's opponents Wallsall in thirteenth place are the next team conceding more than us on 16. They also score goals too. 13 which might make for another high scoring game.
I think there are problems at both ends to be honest.0 -
Related to my post just above. In reality we've had a very near full strength side for most of our games, Marshall and Reeves aside. Yet we are conceding far to many goals for a team looking at promotion. Until we address issues at both ends of the pitch with a striker in January and some serious defensive coaching then I don't see a promotion push at all.1
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In terms of wages, I doubt anyone, other than perhaps Blackburn or Wigan, will have such a highly paid bench sitter as Naby Sarr1
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We are not a keeper short, and should be fine at FB when Page is back. The squad is certainly unbalanced, I would say we are 1 short in terms of numbers.Lincsaddick said:our squad is unbalanced .. too light on 'strikers', too many (inexperienced) midfielders, too many central defenders, too few full backs and a goalkeeper short .. also we lack 'muscle' in the side .. too many small players ..
and yes I know that 'Barca' had a few shrimps in their glorious heyday but they were backed up by some big uns as well
If I could change squad tomorrow, I would sign a striker and a CM, and get rid of a CB (Lennon).
I also don't agree with the Barcelona comment, they probably only had 2/3 players that were 6 foot plus, but it's irrelevant as they had 85% of the ball and the Spanish league is completely different.0 -
This doing badly thing - it’s been going on for nearly 4 years now!clb74 said:Doing badly have a day off
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He better get more than 10, he has 4 already. 15 must be a minimumNorthstandpieeater said:Problem is we are relying on our midfielders to score goals, the majority of these goals will come from outside the box and that's not going to happen every game. Maggneis I think will hit 10-15 goals, the man is brilliant in the air but not every cross is going to hit the desired target. We have no one who can pick up the scraps in and around the six yard box, that's what we are missing. How many stunning goals (either on an individual or team basis) have we scored this year and how many scraps have we got in and around the six yard box.
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They also had a little number 10 who was pretty goodcafcfan1990 said:
We are not a keeper short, and should be fine at FB when Page is back. The squad is certainly unbalanced, I would say we are 1 short in terms of numbers.Lincsaddick said:our squad is unbalanced .. too light on 'strikers', too many (inexperienced) midfielders, too many central defenders, too few full backs and a goalkeeper short .. also we lack 'muscle' in the side .. too many small players ..
and yes I know that 'Barca' had a few shrimps in their glorious heyday but they were backed up by some big uns as well
If I could change squad tomorrow, I would sign a striker and a CM, and get rid of a CB (Lennon).
I also don't agree with the Barcelona comment, they probably only had 2/3 players that were 6 foot plus, but it's irrelevant as they had 85% of the ball and the Spanish league is completely different.0 -
not a patch on Billy ClarkeChris_from_Sidcup said:
They also had a little number 10 who was pretty goodcafcfan1990 said:
We are not a keeper short, and should be fine at FB when Page is back. The squad is certainly unbalanced, I would say we are 1 short in terms of numbers.Lincsaddick said:our squad is unbalanced .. too light on 'strikers', too many (inexperienced) midfielders, too many central defenders, too few full backs and a goalkeeper short .. also we lack 'muscle' in the side .. too many small players ..
and yes I know that 'Barca' had a few shrimps in their glorious heyday but they were backed up by some big uns as well
If I could change squad tomorrow, I would sign a striker and a CM, and get rid of a CB (Lennon).
I also don't agree with the Barcelona comment, they probably only had 2/3 players that were 6 foot plus, but it's irrelevant as they had 85% of the ball and the Spanish league is completely different.3 -
Lionel Messi, the poor man's Ben ReevesChris_from_Sidcup said:
They also had a little number 10 who was pretty goodcafcfan1990 said:
We are not a keeper short, and should be fine at FB when Page is back. The squad is certainly unbalanced, I would say we are 1 short in terms of numbers.Lincsaddick said:our squad is unbalanced .. too light on 'strikers', too many (inexperienced) midfielders, too many central defenders, too few full backs and a goalkeeper short .. also we lack 'muscle' in the side .. too many small players ..
and yes I know that 'Barca' had a few shrimps in their glorious heyday but they were backed up by some big uns as well
If I could change squad tomorrow, I would sign a striker and a CM, and get rid of a CB (Lennon).
I also don't agree with the Barcelona comment, they probably only had 2/3 players that were 6 foot plus, but it's irrelevant as they had 85% of the ball and the Spanish league is completely different.0 -
I disagree regarding our inability to push for the playoffs as things stand, but agree otherwise--particularly that we need to get better at the back. And it's easy to see in games. Our defenders sit too deep, other teams double up on our fullbacks, and we concede goals. The Wigan, Gillingham, and Bury goals were all very similar. I think Robinson needs to spend more time on drilling his back 4 to hold a higher line (and he has mentioned this). And also, we need to work on our defensive shape when the other team has a sustained spell of possession--maintaining a better defensive shape.ShootersHillGuru said:Related to my post just above. In reality we've had a very near full strength side for most of our games, Marshall and Reeves aside. Yet we are conceding far to many goals for a team looking at promotion. Until we address issues at both ends of the pitch with a striker in January and some serious defensive coaching then I don't see a promotion push at all.
When defending, a 4-2-3-1 can become two banks of four. Both Holmes and Fosu have good moments of tracking back, but they need to have better situational awareness on when to gamble and when to sit deeper, and then how to help protect their fullbacks when they do sit deeper.
One other thing Robinson mentioned before the Bury game I think it was, is that sometimes Billy Clarke drops too deep. It was desperately evident against Wigan where, when we struggled in the game he went looking for it. And that can be a good thing, but it's situational understanding again of when to drop deep looking for the ball, and when it's important to stay higher up the pitch to stop supply lines and to keep their midfield from pressing too far forward.
Lastly, we talk about no injuries other than Reeves and Marshall, but those are two really, really crucial players. Reeves is a very good player at this level and Marshall was one of the best in the league last year. Just because they haven't played for us this season doesn't mean we're not missing them. Robinson was clearly meticulous when putting the team together, and he clearly anticipated having both of them. If we had both of them fit, we would absolutely have more options on the bench to change games. Hopefully they'll get fit and get a run in the side and we'll see just what we've been missing to this point.
Also, we are still missing Page, who could help give DaSilva a break.0 - Sponsored links:
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I understand the question but must challenge the mind set which positions because we are in League 1 we have to operate as a League 1 club. On such a basis what on earth are the likes of Bournemouth, Swansea, Crystal Palace, Watford doing in the Premier League or Millwall and Burton doing in the Championship ?
Does everybody in League 1 have the same history, the same catchment area or the same demographics? Is everybody in League 1 investing in a state of the art upgrade in their training ground? How many in League 1 are supposedly seeking to secure Category1 status for their academy? Is everyone pumping in circa £5mn p.a. funding? Is this just all smoke and mirrors?
This labelling extends to the players. You do not let your playing status define you. Were Hamer, Morrison, Wiggins, Stephens, Kermorgant all League 1 players? Does Josh Magennis pull on his N.Ireland shirt thinking I am only a League 1 player?
It is this same positioning of squad cover. I have never met any player who described themselves as "a cover professional". If you had asked Cort, Hughes and Euell in 2011/12 whether they were "cover" professionals they would have probably "lamped you". They came to work every day to compete for the first team spot, they came to play because they wanted and needed to play. Could they still deliver? For the most part they could.
It is a questionable assertion no League 1 squad has any depth. On what basis has anyone done any such analysis. You would have to study the managers game plan, assess every squad in relation the number of senior professionals, the numbers of their support squad, the pattern of play, the availability of utility players across 23 other clubs.
Even then it would not prove very much, because even if everybody else was "dumbing down" for League 1, if you have any ambition it does not mean you have to do the same thing.
Ultimately the answers as always will lay in the performances, results and league position we achieve
To suggest "we are all in the same boat" and have access to vaguely equal resources can only mean those sides achieving better results have been better in assembling and managing their squads. Or is it just supposed to be a matter of bad luck with injuries, suspensions, loss of form, refereeing decisions?
Such "fatalistic thinking" sounds remarkably like it is all one huge lottery where nothing can be done except an annual £5mn funding punt on mere chance. In this game you make your own luck. As Gary Player said "the harder I work the luckier I get" to which you can add "the better the decisions I make the luckier I get".
Injuries, suspensions, loss of form, erratic referees/ officials, outstanding goalkeeper performances, competitive "aggressive" physical opponents are part and parcel of this league. They are the elements common to us all. They are not excuses to fail. They are challenges to be met and overcome.
Mr Robinson comments concerning the Bury & Gillingham results and the impact of substitutes are part of his unfortunate habit of quoting from the Football Management 101 manual which 90% of us could quote from. The difference is he was in a position to do something about it. He still is.
A bad "10 days" results wise should not define who we are but waiting on/ pointing to the return/ introduction of injured players with fingers crossed, praying every night nobody else gets injured is/ was never an option. It is the road to nowhere because in the interim we go again Tuesday, then Saturday etc., or perhaps we could ask the League to postpone all our fixtures until all our best players are fit, not suspended and on form and can we always have the very best set of officials and maybe ask the opposition not to try too hard.
I have done the risk assessment of this squad to death. Whether the management can successfully manage those risks remains to be seen. It is unknown because we have not seen them play.
This is Mr Robinson's squad. This is his selected pattern of play. These are his players. It is up to him, his coaches and the players to move forward. Whether the squad is strong enough we will only know when they play. "On paper" the numbers are there but if they are good enough why are not Phillips, Sarr, Konsa, Dijksteel, Aribo getting a game? Based on the past 10 days I would be banging on the Managers door asking when do I get my chance.
Is the squad strong enough on the basis of whether we have 2 players for each position capable of "competing and winning the job"? The short answer is no. The challenge with Magennis after a suicidal day at the end of the window is there is no one to whom you can pose the question of whether they can compete for the job other than a young lad just out of non league.
Ask the young players how many consider themselves "cover professional footballers". If you construct a squad with "cover professionals" then you get cover professional performances and guess what - substitutes do not change the game because they are...... only cover professionals. Do the likes of Ahearne-Grant or Dodoo believe they can play better and deliver more than Holmes or Magennis or do they play on the basis they are just filling in?
You construct a squad of players able to compete for and win the first team job even an Andy Hughes at the end of his career who can compete for 3 jobs.
If Mr Robinson has constructed his squad and coached them correctly then the likes of the young players named above are the next men up. In this game all luck can do is merely present you with an opportunity. You can either step up and take it or not. You can either deliver or not. Only then will we know whether the squad is strong enough.5 -
The squad is thin, just look at the bench for the last couple of matches? No one on the bench was capable of changing the game.0
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And everything was cushty the few years before them 4 ottoricky_otto said:
This doing badly thing - it’s been going on for nearly 4 years now!clb74 said:Doing badly have a day off
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The squad is thin. Maybe not in raw numbers, but certainly thin in respect that we don't have much talent outside of our first eleven and due to the make up of the squad, we lack options in terms of formation. It was a huge mistake not to bring in a recognised striker to push Magennis or to play alongside him should we need a change of formation. That mistake may well cost us promotion. Whilst we may sign someone in January, it's a long way off at the moment, and Roland's usual modus operandi is to get rid of a player or two around that time too. The chances are we'll bring someone in, but it's likely we'll lose someone decent at the same time, thus not changing much at all.cafc999 said:The squad is thin, just look at the bench for the last couple of matches? No one on the bench was capable of changing the game.
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For what its worth.......
Other teams in L1 do not have - on the whole - stronger squads than us.
Our squad is strong enough to do well, and, we have a manager with a record of success at this level. He also appears to have had some say (more say?) in who joins the club than others in his position since early 2014.
Our downside is not having a simple robust 15/20 goals a season L1 striker. Clearly we thought we would get that with Ajose + Novak. Clearly both failed. Why? Poor attitude? (Ajose). Loss of form or unreliable form in the first place? (Novak).
Game after game shows us with most of the possession + plenty of attempts on goal but failing to put them away.
The lack of a good striker isn't fatal: if we keep it tight at the back and Magennis + Holmes keep knocking them in we'd make the play-offs in my view.
But come January......we need to say goodbye to Ahearne-Grant (what is it now, 25 games and 1 goal?) and bring in someone good at this level.0 -
Mag on course for 20 this seasonsimonmatthews said:For what its worth.......
Other teams in L1 do not have - on the whole - stronger squads than us.
Our squad is strong enough to do well, and, we have a manager with a record of success at this level. He also appears to have had some say (more say?) in who joins the club than others in his position since early 2014.
Our downside is not having a simple robust 15/20 goals a season L1 striker. Clearly we thought we would get that with Ajose + Novak. Clearly both failed. Why? Poor attitude? (Ajose). Loss of form or unreliable form in the first place? (Novak).
Game after game shows us with most of the possession + plenty of attempts on goal but failing to put them away.
The lack of a good striker isn't fatal: if we keep it tight at the back and Magennis + Holmes keep knocking them in we'd make the play-offs in my view.
But come January......we need to say goodbye to Ahearne-Grant (what is it now, 25 games and 1 goal?) and bring in someone good at this level.0 -
Great midfield, solid defence, questionable goalie situation and laughable striking options0
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If KR continues with one up front, and Magennis is the main man, then even if the money is available, it's never going to be easy to attract a decent striker just to come and warm the bench.simonmatthews said:For what its worth.......
Other teams in L1 do not have - on the whole - stronger squads than us.
Our squad is strong enough to do well, and, we have a manager with a record of success at this level. He also appears to have had some say (more say?) in who joins the club than others in his position since early 2014.
Our downside is not having a simple robust 15/20 goals a season L1 striker. Clearly we thought we would get that with Ajose + Novak. Clearly both failed. Why? Poor attitude? (Ajose). Loss of form or unreliable form in the first place? (Novak).
Game after game shows us with most of the possession + plenty of attempts on goal but failing to put them away.
The lack of a good striker isn't fatal: if we keep it tight at the back and Magennis + Holmes keep knocking them in we'd make the play-offs in my view.
But come January......we need to say goodbye to Ahearne-Grant (what is it now, 25 games and 1 goal?) and bring in someone good at this level.1 -
Well......we were in a higher division (had finished 9th the season before and probably would have made the play offs had the season gone on for a few more games. We had reached the 1/4 final of the FA Cup, the season before we won the league (we are currently languising in)by a record number of points. We had a top quality striker that the fans loved, a good manager and a decent team - plenty of spirit and ones that the fans could relate to and were proud of.clb74 said:
And everything was cushty the few years before them 4 ottoricky_otto said:
This doing badly thing - it’s been going on for nearly 4 years now!clb74 said:Doing badly have a day off
To be honest, I would take League 2 under new ownership than the absolute misery that the current ones serve up season in season out.
Not really seen much progress in 4 years have we? All we have seen is a turnover of inept managers, a revolving door of mainly dross players and a number of fans who don’t want to go and watch “their team”.
Robinson has steadied the ship and brought in a better quality of player it has to be said, but ultimately we are up shit creek without a paddle.
Supporting Charlton never really is cushty - I don’t expect it to be.0 -
I’m really not sure where this perception that we have a solid defence comes from. We’ve shipped more goals than anyone above us and you need to look at Fleetwood in tenth place to find anyone letting in more.moutuakilla said:Great midfield, solid defence, questionable goalie situation and laughable striking options
It’s not only at striker we need to do better.
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