SHG is all kinds of everything, and undoubtedly a good bloke, but a traitor FFS? Seriously? SHG cares for his community and significant institutions in this country like the NHS...even keeping the nuclear arms (which I personally disagree with), but a traitor? What's that about? Who was it said patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel? Reading this thread I have to agree they have a point.
you're late to the party and as often on here you're misquoting me .. I typed that @Red_in_SE8 was a quisling, not SHG, who is an old sparring partner of mine and when in form can be far more cutting and insulting than even my good self
Fair enough late to the party. Apologies for thinking you were invoking patriotism to rise SHG. Mind you, patriotism is one of those terms, like 'professional' that people define on the hoof to suit their purposes or argument. As in Donald Fecking Trump and the American Footballers.
Patriotism. Such a dirty word in a pc, left loving UK these days.
You say dirty, I say meaningless.
Seriously ? You don't feel a pang of pride when the National Anthem is played at an Olympics or when looking back at our great history ?
Not really. Not because of anything negative regarding the UK, and this is going to sound strange, but if what I feel is a pang of pride I have similar feeling hearing the Chinese anthem, or the Irish one, or the USA one or the Spanish one. If patriotism is about doing others down I reject it, if it is about celebrating the humanity or achievement of a community I applaud it. Love of Charlton Athletic is a different thing for me in all this. Say for example a sports person from Papua New Guinea pips a British athlete for an Olympic gold I am more likely to have a pang that says 'good for them' rather than a pang of regret for the Briton. Let's not delve too deep into the history of this country, there are nasty things lurking under those stones to counteract the wonderful things...similar to most countries.
meanwhile back in Spain .. IF Madrid allows Catalonia to break away from the 'confederation', Galicia & the Basque Country will soon follow, leaving 'Spain' in dire straits .. the north is the economic heartland of 'the nation' and just will not be allowed more than the limited autonomy the individual components now enjoy
SHG is all kinds of everything, and undoubtedly a good bloke, but a traitor FFS? Seriously? SHG cares for his community and significant institutions in this country like the NHS...even keeping the nuclear arms (which I personally disagree with), but a traitor? What's that about? Who was it said patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel? Reading this thread I have to agree they have a point.
you're late to the party and as often on here you're misquoting me .. I typed that @Red_in_SE8 was a quisling, not SHG, who is an old sparring partner of mine and when in form can be far more cutting and insulting than even my good self
Fair enough late to the party. Apologies for thinking you were invoking patriotism to rise SHG. Mind you, patriotism is one of those terms, like 'professional' that people define on the hoof to suit their purposes or argument. As in Donald Fecking Trump and the American Footballers.
Patriotism. Such a dirty word in a pc, left loving UK these days.
You say dirty, I say meaningless.
Seriously ? You don't feel a pang of pride when the National Anthem is played at an Olympics or when looking back at our great history ?
Not really. Not because of anything negative regarding the UK, and this is going to sound strange, but if what I feel is a pang of pride I have similar feeling hearing the Chinese anthem, or the Irish one, or the USA one or the Spanish one. If patriotism is about doing others down I reject it, if it is about celebrating the humanity or achievement of a community I applaud it. Love of Charlton Athletic is a different thing for me in all this. Say for example a sports person from Papua New Guinea pips a British athlete for an Olympic gold I am more likely to have a pang that says 'good for them' rather than a pang of regret for the Briton. Let's not delve too deep into the history of this country, there are nasty things lurking under those stones to counteract the wonderful things...similar to most countries.
I suppose you'd prefer to wave the blue flag with stars on. Out of interest, why does the love of Charlton Athletic "differ in all this" for you ?
SHG is all kinds of everything, and undoubtedly a good bloke, but a traitor FFS? Seriously? SHG cares for his community and significant institutions in this country like the NHS...even keeping the nuclear arms (which I personally disagree with), but a traitor? What's that about? Who was it said patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel? Reading this thread I have to agree they have a point.
you're late to the party and as often on here you're misquoting me .. I typed that @Red_in_SE8 was a quisling, not SHG, who is an old sparring partner of mine and when in form can be far more cutting and insulting than even my good self
Fair enough late to the party. Apologies for thinking you were invoking patriotism to rise SHG. Mind you, patriotism is one of those terms, like 'professional' that people define on the hoof to suit their purposes or argument. As in Donald Fecking Trump and the American Footballers.
Patriotism. Such a dirty word in a pc, left loving UK these days.
You say dirty, I say meaningless.
Seriously ? You don't feel a pang of pride when the National Anthem is played at an Olympics or when looking back at our great history ?
Not really. Not because of anything negative regarding the UK, and this is going to sound strange, but if what I feel is a pang of pride I have similar feeling hearing the Chinese anthem, or the Irish one, or the USA one or the Spanish one. If patriotism is about doing others down I reject it, if it is about celebrating the humanity or achievement of a community I applaud it. Love of Charlton Athletic is a different thing for me in all this. Say for example a sports person from Papua New Guinea pips a British athlete for an Olympic gold I am more likely to have a pang that says 'good for them' rather than a pang of regret for the Briton. Let's not delve too deep into the history of this country, there are nasty things lurking under those stones to counteract the wonderful things...similar to most countries.
I suppose you'd prefer to wave the blue flag with stars on. Out of interest, why does the love of Charlton Athletic "differ in all this" for you ?
You are right about the blue flag. However that aspiration has been defeated.
When it comes to Charlton I find myself almost inexplicably 'patriotic' which goes against my general 'group hug' attitude. Probably hypocritical given my other stated points of view but bound up with family and the community I grew up in. If fecking Crystal Palace do well I certainly don't think 'good for them'.
SHG is all kinds of everything, and undoubtedly a good bloke, but a traitor FFS? Seriously? SHG cares for his community and significant institutions in this country like the NHS...even keeping the nuclear arms (which I personally disagree with), but a traitor? What's that about? Who was it said patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel? Reading this thread I have to agree they have a point.
you're late to the party and as often on here you're misquoting me .. I typed that @Red_in_SE8 was a quisling, not SHG, who is an old sparring partner of mine and when in form can be far more cutting and insulting than even my good self
Fair enough late to the party. Apologies for thinking you were invoking patriotism to rise SHG. Mind you, patriotism is one of those terms, like 'professional' that people define on the hoof to suit their purposes or argument. As in Donald Fecking Trump and the American Footballers.
Patriotism. Such a dirty word in a pc, left loving UK these days.
You say dirty, I say meaningless.
Seriously ? You don't feel a pang of pride when the National Anthem is played at an Olympics or when looking back at our great history ?
Not really. Not because of anything negative regarding the UK, and this is going to sound strange, but if what I feel is a pang of pride I have similar feeling hearing the Chinese anthem, or the Irish one, or the USA one or the Spanish one. If patriotism is about doing others down I reject it, if it is about celebrating the humanity or achievement of a community I applaud it. Love of Charlton Athletic is a different thing for me in all this. Say for example a sports person from Papua New Guinea pips a British athlete for an Olympic gold I am more likely to have a pang that says 'good for them' rather than a pang of regret for the Briton. Let's not delve too deep into the history of this country, there are nasty things lurking under those stones to counteract the wonderful things...similar to most countries.
I suppose you'd prefer to wave the blue flag with stars on. Out of interest, why does the love of Charlton Athletic "differ in all this" for you ?
You are right about the blue flag. However that aspiration has been defeated.
When it comes to Charlton I find myself almost inexplicably 'patriotic' which goes against my general 'group hug' attitude. Probably hypocritical given my other stated points of view but bound up with family and the community I grew up in. If fecking Crystal Palace do well I certainly don't think 'good for them'.
I can see the hypocrisy that you mention. Perhaps the Charlton element of this is because of the similarities of our club and the EU. Managed by mad, clueless Europeans with a penchant for bullying based on financial gain.
IIRC Monti was asked by the (elected by the Italian public) President to step in to replace that shining light of democratic governance and honesty Berlosconi? This was short term and was at the height of Italy's debt crisis and given they are now outperforming the UK's growth it's difficult to see it was the wrong call. My grasp of Italian politics is not great I'll admit but I don't see where this is the EU's fault.
I had to Google the other bloke and not surprising really as he lasted as Greek PM for about 6 months back at the height of their debt crisis too. Again he was invited to form a coalition government at the time not parachuted in by Brussels as you suggested.
Both examples had links to the EU granted but I don't buy their appointments were part of any sinister, wider plan at all.
Comments
Not because of anything negative regarding the UK, and this is going to sound strange, but if what I feel is a pang of pride I have similar feeling hearing the Chinese anthem, or the Irish one, or the USA one or the Spanish one.
If patriotism is about doing others down I reject it, if it is about celebrating the humanity or achievement of a community I applaud it.
Love of Charlton Athletic is a different thing for me in all this.
Say for example a sports person from Papua New Guinea pips a British athlete for an Olympic gold I am more likely to have a pang that says 'good for them' rather than a pang of regret for the Briton.
Let's not delve too deep into the history of this country, there are nasty things lurking under those stones to counteract the wonderful things...similar to most countries.
the north is the economic heartland of 'the nation' and just will not be allowed more than the limited autonomy the individual components now enjoy
Can you imagine the agg if it were ever to happen.
Out of interest, why does the love of Charlton Athletic "differ in all this" for you ?
When it comes to Charlton I find myself almost inexplicably 'patriotic' which goes against my general 'group hug' attitude. Probably hypocritical given my other stated points of view but bound up with family and the community I grew up in.
If fecking Crystal Palace do well I certainly don't think 'good for them'.
Perhaps the Charlton element of this is because of the similarities of our club and the EU.
Managed by mad, clueless Europeans with a penchant for bullying based on financial gain.
Only one they won in my lifetime was when Blair won and I voted for them both times then.
I wouldn't have been happy had they won last time out and I wasn't happy the Tories won either which is why I spoilt my ballot paper.
But then I'm an alt-right , UKIP voting nazi in your world.
I hope they burn down the Spanish government buildings
Sorry, you voted for Blair but the point stands. You were happy or unhappy with the RESULT not that there was an election.
I am sure he would've loved the U.K. Government to have come down on the referendum in such a way
This thread.
...Jesus Christ.
You are right.
The EU is more subtle and cuts out the 'middlemen' of elections and referendums and places its own unelected leaders.
Monti in Italy Papademos in Greece for example.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/13/europe-rise-technocracy-editorial
I had to Google the other bloke and not surprising really as he lasted as Greek PM for about 6 months back at the height of their debt crisis too. Again he was invited to form a coalition government at the time not parachuted in by Brussels as you suggested.
Both examples had links to the EU granted but I don't buy their appointments were part of any sinister, wider plan at all.