And how do I conclude he feels threatened? Because he compares progressive movements to fucking totalitarian regimes and describes inclusive language as an attack
He never did that at all, and therein lies the crux of your argument. You're the same as Newman in that you hear and attack what you want to instead of what he actually said. That way you can make outlandish claims to try and denigrate what he says.
Old tactic that is slowly being exposed, thankfully.
And how do I conclude he feels threatened? Because he compares progressive movements to fucking totalitarian regimes and describes inclusive language as an attack
He never did that at all, and therein lies the crux of your argument. You're the same as Newman in that you hear and attack what you want to instead of what he actually said. That way you can make outlandish claims to try and denigrate what he says.
Old tactic that is slowly being exposed, thankfully.
I don't understand. That's exactly what he did. This kind of gaslighting bullshit ain't gonna work on me, buddy. Anyone can watch the video and judge for themselves.
And how do I conclude he feels threatened? Because he compares progressive movements to fucking totalitarian regimes and describes inclusive language as an attack
He never did that at all, and therein lies the crux of your argument. You're the same as Newman in that you hear and attack what you want to instead of what he actually said. That way you can make outlandish claims to try and denigrate what he says.
Old tactic that is slowly being exposed, thankfully.
I don't understand. That's exactly what he did. This kind of gaslighting bullshit ain't gonna work on me, buddy. Anyone can watch the video and judge for themselves.
Most of those that have, have judged differently to your good self.
Jordan Peterson is another attention-hogging c**t from the same bracket as Milo. If you're siding with these absolute wankers in the culture wars, don't be amazed when people start thinking you're a moron
You’re such a tolerant liberal.
Sometimes you have to take some fucking names
Okay okay, but do you not think you’re fuelling the fires of the “culture war” when you call everyone who has a different opinion, a moron.
I said that people shouldn't be surprised to be thought of as morons if they parrot the hate of the alt-right. I didn't say they are morons. Just that they should expect a firm response. I'm not Red In SE8, I don't directly call everyone I disagree with a moron
The antisemetic and homophobic alt right, and Milo, being one of these wankers and member of the alt-right you speak of, is Jewish and gay..
Jordan Peterson is another attention-hogging c**t from the same bracket as Milo. If you're siding with these absolute wankers in the culture wars, don't be amazed when people start thinking you're a moron
The paradox of tolerance was described by Karl Popper in 1945. The paradox states that if a society is tolerant without limit, their ability to be tolerant will eventually be seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Popper came to the seemingly paradoxical conclusion that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance.
"no partner for a woman" Hang on, is he calling gay men/bachelors useless? Is our anatomical function of reproduction our only use? The meaning of human life anatomically is to reproduce. So even though I don't really understand whether or not he is making it as an argument. It is correct anatomically. Fortunately I don't agree with it morally. I believe you should be able to love whoever you love. You can't change who you fall in love with.
"YouTube is a male domain, primarily" - Suuuuuure. Maybe the toxic comment sections you stir up are! Go on YouTube, How many users are male and how many female?
Here's the answer according to YouTube in their January 2018 statistics... Female users account for 38% of users and male users account for 62%.
YouTube IS predominantly a male site.
Tumblr is primarily female" - Yet again with the generalisations! Yet again, the interviewer doesn't focus on the right detail.
In a 2015 study it was revealed that just under 80% of the active user base was female and just over 20% was male. Tumblr IS therefore primarily Female.
"Some young men never hear words of encouragement in their entire lives" If you'd blame feminism for this then you're not only a fool but a dangerous fool. "
If that makes him a dangerous fool, what would it have made Valerie Solanas who blamed men for all wrong doing in the world and stated that ALL men are SCUM and should never be encouraged and even argued men should be killed?
Valerie Solanas by the way was the feminist extremist that attempted to murder Andy Warhol and published the SCUM manifesto...
"Women want men to be competent, because they want a competent partner. They can't dominate a competent partner." - This kind of social-Darwinist fucking nonsense bullshit is POISON. Firstly: what about lesbians? Secondly: what about women who view men as something other than potential partners? Thirdly: what the fuck - you're baldly saying that women innately want to be submissive to men? I could draw a million counterexamples to that - obviously men's traditional dominance is built on brute strength and testosterone-fuelled aggression, but have women really always wanted to be treated like commodities? Don't disagree with that. I think my partner enjoys dominating me and not in the fun way.
"Equality of outcome" - what the hell does this mean? Is an outcome when someone is employed? The result of their work? I didn't understand that one either.
"The domain of physical conflict is off-limits for (women)" - so, are you arguing that men shouldn't evolve to settle differences peacefully? Furthermore, you're arguing that women can't participate in physical conflict?
I understood that to be him, referring to physical conflict between men and women. Which can be disproven watching the odd episode of cops, police interceptors or other late night reality tv shows focusing on modern drinking culture.
"If the consumer economy had a sex, it would be female. Women drive 70-80% of all consumer purchasing, through a combination of their buying power and influence. Influence means that even when a woman isn’t paying for something herself, she is often the influence or veto vote behind someone else’s purchase."
"it's been rather uncomfortable" - You're getting paid to air your views and spread your beliefs among the population. You're a popular academic. you're comparing this to the struggle of people who are ACTUALLY SUICIDAL
No, he really isn't. He just states that she should have the right to risk offending him in the pursuit of truth, just as he risks offending others in a pursuit of truth. He then even says that she is perfectly right to do so and it freezes the crap out of the interviewer because she has realised he is spot on.
"the philosophy that claims that group identity is paramount is the same as that which killed millions of people in the Soviet Union and China" - The interviewer handles this terribly, but really she's right in saying he's being an alt-right troll here. He's comparing people who just want the freedom to ask others to address them in a certain manner to top-down totalitarian government, by throwing the whole lot into some vague strawman called 'identity politics'. It's fucking insane, but it's catchy, because it justifies bigotry, and people love to be bigoted.
I think you're right that he is trolling here, however regarding the Identity politics why should he pretend that others are something that they are anatomically not? Once again I don't care what people get up to in their private life, but don't like to be forced to use labels either positively or negatively for others...
Not trying to pick any fights, just coming back with what I feel are fair responses to your points (hence some agreement).
Jordan Peterson is another attention-hogging c**t from the same bracket as Milo. If you're siding with these absolute wankers in the culture wars, don't be amazed when people start thinking you're a moron
The paradox of tolerance was described by Karl Popper in 1945. The paradox states that if a society is tolerant without limit, their ability to be tolerant will eventually be seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Popper came to the seemingly paradoxical conclusion that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance.
That’s lovely incite, however you may have missed the point, the line getting drawn for some on what is classed as intolerance is shall we say a little OTT.
I'm happy that the outdated use of women as eye candy in sports seems to be ending.
I recall the contempt on here for the Palace cheerleaders and find myself a bit confused though. Some seem to think if it's Palace it's bad but if it's darts it's good.
I'm happy that the outdated use of women as eye candy in sports seems to be ending.
I recall the contempt on here for the Palace cheerleaders and find myself a bit confused though. Some seem to think if it's Palace it's bad but if it's darts it's good.
Jordan Peterson is another attention-hogging c**t from the same bracket as Milo. If you're siding with these absolute wankers in the culture wars, don't be amazed when people start thinking you're a moron
The paradox of tolerance was described by Karl Popper in 1945. The paradox states that if a society is tolerant without limit, their ability to be tolerant will eventually be seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Popper came to the seemingly paradoxical conclusion that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance.
That’s lovely incite, however you may have missed the point, the line getting drawn for some on what is classed as intolerance is shall we say a little OTT.
"Where do you draw the line?" is rhetoric that has been used for the last few centuries (basically post-Enlightenment) in the face of social progress/change, but okay.
Jordan Peterson is another attention-hogging c**t from the same bracket as Milo. If you're siding with these absolute wankers in the culture wars, don't be amazed when people start thinking you're a moron
You’re such a tolerant liberal.
Sometimes you have to take some fucking names
Okay okay, but do you not think you’re fuelling the fires of the “culture war” when you call everyone who has a different opinion, a moron.
I said that people shouldn't be surprised to be thought of as morons if they parrot the hate of the alt-right. I didn't say they are morons. Just that they should expect a firm response. I'm not Red In SE8, I don't directly call everyone I disagree with a moron
Apart from my frequent posts labelling Brexit voters as morons can you provide any evidence of this assertion? I am not aware of using that term in any non Brexit thread.
Jordan Peterson is another attention-hogging c**t from the same bracket as Milo. If you're siding with these absolute wankers in the culture wars, don't be amazed when people start thinking you're a moron
You’re such a tolerant liberal.
Sometimes you have to take some fucking names
Okay okay, but do you not think you’re fuelling the fires of the “culture war” when you call everyone who has a different opinion, a moron.
I said that people shouldn't be surprised to be thought of as morons if they parrot the hate of the alt-right. I didn't say they are morons. Just that they should expect a firm response. I'm not Red In SE8, I don't directly call everyone I disagree with a moron
Apart from my frequent posts labelling Brexit voters as morons can you provide any evidence of this assertion? I am not aware of using that term in any non Brexit thread.
Lots of comments on here this afternoon - some very long posts - I'm short of time to be honest - picked up on this Jordan thingy interview - not able to watch as in a meeting etc etc - critical question - has this female interviewer got nice tits ??
"no partner for a woman" Hang on, is he calling gay men/bachelors useless? Is our anatomical function of reproduction our only use? The meaning of human life anatomically is to reproduce. So even though I don't really understand whether or not he is making it as an argument. It is correct anatomically. Fortunately I don't agree with it morally. I believe you should be able to love whoever you love. You can't change who you fall in love with.
"YouTube is a male domain, primarily" - Suuuuuure. Maybe the toxic comment sections you stir up are! Go on YouTube, How many users are male and how many female?
Here's the answer according to YouTube in their January 2018 statistics... Female users account for 38% of users and male users account for 62%.
YouTube IS predominantly a male site.
Tumblr is primarily female" - Yet again with the generalisations! Yet again, the interviewer doesn't focus on the right detail.
In a 2015 study it was revealed that just under 80% of the active user base was female and just over 20% was male. Tumblr IS therefore primarily Female.
"Some young men never hear words of encouragement in their entire lives" If you'd blame feminism for this then you're not only a fool but a dangerous fool. "
If that makes him a dangerous fool, what would it have made Valerie Solanas who blamed men for all wrong doing in the world and stated that ALL men are SCUM and should never be encouraged and even argued men should be killed?
Valerie Solanas by the way was the feminist extremist that attempted to murder Andy Warhol and published the SCUM manifesto...
"Women want men to be competent, because they want a competent partner. They can't dominate a competent partner." - This kind of social-Darwinist fucking nonsense bullshit is POISON. Firstly: what about lesbians? Secondly: what about women who view men as something other than potential partners? Thirdly: what the fuck - you're baldly saying that women innately want to be submissive to men? I could draw a million counterexamples to that - obviously men's traditional dominance is built on brute strength and testosterone-fuelled aggression, but have women really always wanted to be treated like commodities? Don't disagree with that. I think my partner enjoys dominating me and not in the fun way.
"Equality of outcome" - what the hell does this mean? Is an outcome when someone is employed? The result of their work? I didn't understand that one either.
"The domain of physical conflict is off-limits for (women)" - so, are you arguing that men shouldn't evolve to settle differences peacefully? Furthermore, you're arguing that women can't participate in physical conflict?
I understood that to be him, referring to physical conflict between men and women. Which can be disproven watching the odd episode of cops, police interceptors or other late night reality tv shows focusing on modern drinking culture.
"If the consumer economy had a sex, it would be female. Women drive 70-80% of all consumer purchasing, through a combination of their buying power and influence. Influence means that even when a woman isn’t paying for something herself, she is often the influence or veto vote behind someone else’s purchase."
"it's been rather uncomfortable" - You're getting paid to air your views and spread your beliefs among the population. You're a popular academic. you're comparing this to the struggle of people who are ACTUALLY SUICIDAL
No, he really isn't. He just states that she should have the right to risk offending him in the pursuit of truth, just as he risks offending others in a pursuit of truth. He then even says that she is perfectly right to do so and it freezes the crap out of the interviewer because she has realised he is spot on.
"the philosophy that claims that group identity is paramount is the same as that which killed millions of people in the Soviet Union and China" - The interviewer handles this terribly, but really she's right in saying he's being an alt-right troll here. He's comparing people who just want the freedom to ask others to address them in a certain manner to top-down totalitarian government, by throwing the whole lot into some vague strawman called 'identity politics'. It's fucking insane, but it's catchy, because it justifies bigotry, and people love to be bigoted.
I think you're right that he is trolling here, however regarding the Identity politics why should he pretend that others are something that they are anatomically not? Once again I don't care what people get up to in their private life, but don't like to be forced to use labels either positively or negatively for others...
Not trying to pick any fights, just coming back with what I feel are fair responses to your points (hence some agreement).
OK. Thanks for responding even-handedly and constructively.
Regarding YouTube and Tumblr...well, 63/38 is technically a majority but speaking about it like it's some sort of male realm is poisonous and awful considering that that 38% is still, like, a billion people. It's misleading and irrelevant. The Tumblr statistic is more pronounced but it's still extremely dangerous to say it appertains to a single gender when there are a great many users from other genders. It would be like saying that Charlton Athletic has a male fanbase.
Regarding Valerie Solanas...well I've seen the Scum Manifesto and found it quite funny tbh...she was an extremist of course, but an enormous outlier. Saying that all feminists think like her would be like saying that all Brexiters think like Thomas Mair. And so you're yet to address my claim that (the overwhelming majority of) feminists don't want to discourage men so much as behaviour that most of us would find repulsive anyway.
"A woman is often an influence or veto vote over goods bought" smells like grade-A horseshit to me! Their 80% figure is basically 'all goods bought by women, or men who happen to live with women".
There are different kinds of offence. There's the kind that ruffles the feathers of a wealthy academic. There's also the kind that makes trans people kill themselves. And there are many shades in between. Not all offence is equal!
I don't think people should be forced to use labels, but I think they should respect other people and treat them as they've been requested to.
One thing I think this bloke (on the video) is saying, and it is something I suspect I agree with him and Big Bad World, about is the role of language and the words we use in a debate. Reasoning can happen mathematically I suppose, but for the main it is words and language we depend on. As such they deserve to be handled well. Ironically the initial part of the debate is about words used to describe trans people, and that in itself highlights the significance of language when applied to reasoning. That said I am not sure that 'winning' an argument matters at all until that victory is developed into something manifest. The old 'so what you gonna do about it?' bit. I am also not sure that reasoning and logic are the only tools to be called upon in any debate, to assume that there is not a wider more holistic angle in an argument is missing quite a lot. The emotions, and life experiences a person has are allowable in my view. For example the grid girls debate might be seen differently by parents of daughters than by people with no children. The same conclusion might be reached by both, but the route might be different. I mentioned the role of mathematics earlier in considering a debate, but there may be other tools too, creative ones....after all in debate analogies and examples are used a lot, not simply pointing to phenomena alone.
Find it all a bit pathetic but sadly it’s the way things are going.
Of course the use of ‘glamour girls’ are not necessary to any sporting occasion. But then again nor are MC’s, music, fireworks, mascots, dancers, hospitality, food and drinks, commentators and all other aspects that add to ‘the package’, whether that’s attending ot or watching at home.
We are heading for an age of fear and blandness. Let’s hope equality really is applied. I look forward to watching a prime time family entertainment programme like Take Me Out where a bloke doesn’t have to take his shirt off for 30 women to ogle and pass comment on his body. Or Loose Women where they have the butlers in the buff on.
Right I’m having a beer I’m 7 moretti’s deep, leith/chizz and all the others that slate me in here I’m sure you’re all good blokes(or woman/non binary) enjoy your weekends, let’s agree to disagree.
Find it all a bit pathetic but sadly it’s the way things are going.
Of course the use of ‘glamour girls’ are not necessary to any sporting occasion. But then again nor are MC’s, music, fireworks, mascots, dancers, hospitality, food and drinks, commentators and all other aspects that add to ‘the package’, whether that’s attending ot or watching at home.
We are heading for an age of fear and blandness. Let’s hope equality really is applied. I look forward to watching a prime time family entertainment programme like Take Me Out where a bloke doesn’t have to take his shirt off for 30 women to ogle and pass comment on his body. Or Loose Women where they have the butlers in the buff on.
My understanding is that the young ladies in question - The grid girls absolutely love their jobs as it enhances their careers in fashion, modelling, media or whatever, or even just because it’s fun. I think the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix is sponsored by Etihad Airlines where the grid girls are taken from the air stewardesses who enter a prize draw to get one if the coveted places.
They want to be a grid girl. Have we reached that the very situation of women being able to choose and flourish in any careeer they choose unless it crosses some line drawn by the miserable fuckers in their ridiculous version of feminism and equality.
Comments
Old tactic that is slowly being exposed, thankfully.
"no partner for a woman" Hang on, is he calling gay men/bachelors useless? Is our anatomical function of reproduction our only use?
The meaning of human life anatomically is to reproduce. So even though I don't really understand whether or not he is making it as an argument. It is correct anatomically. Fortunately I don't agree with it morally. I believe you should be able to love whoever you love. You can't change who you fall in love with.
"YouTube is a male domain, primarily" - Suuuuuure. Maybe the toxic comment sections you stir up are!
Go on YouTube, How many users are male and how many female?
Here's the answer according to YouTube in their January 2018 statistics... Female users account for 38% of users and male users account for 62%.
YouTube IS predominantly a male site.
Tumblr is primarily female" - Yet again with the generalisations! Yet again, the interviewer doesn't focus on the right detail.
In a 2015 study it was revealed that just under 80% of the active user base was female and just over 20% was male. Tumblr IS therefore primarily Female.
"Some young men never hear words of encouragement in their entire lives" If you'd blame feminism for this then you're not only a fool but a dangerous fool. "
If that makes him a dangerous fool, what would it have made Valerie Solanas who blamed men for all wrong doing in the world and stated that ALL men are SCUM and should never be encouraged and even argued men should be killed?
Valerie Solanas by the way was the feminist extremist that attempted to murder Andy Warhol and published the SCUM manifesto...
"Women want men to be competent, because they want a competent partner. They can't dominate a competent partner." - This kind of social-Darwinist fucking nonsense bullshit is POISON. Firstly: what about lesbians? Secondly: what about women who view men as something other than potential partners? Thirdly: what the fuck - you're baldly saying that women innately want to be submissive to men? I could draw a million counterexamples to that - obviously men's traditional dominance is built on brute strength and testosterone-fuelled aggression, but have women really always wanted to be treated like commodities?
Don't disagree with that. I think my partner enjoys dominating me and not in the fun way.
"Equality of outcome" - what the hell does this mean? Is an outcome when someone is employed? The result of their work?
I didn't understand that one either.
"The domain of physical conflict is off-limits for (women)" - so, are you arguing that men shouldn't evolve to settle differences peacefully? Furthermore, you're arguing that women can't participate in physical conflict?
I understood that to be him, referring to physical conflict between men and women. Which can be disproven watching the odd episode of cops, police interceptors or other late night reality tv shows focusing on modern drinking culture.
"80% of the consumer decisions are made by women, so women control the market" - This feels reeeeeally fudged to me. Source?
Only Forbes, must be made up BS.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bridgetbrennan/2015/01/21/top-10-things-everyone-should-know-about-women-consumers/#2bfef8646a8b
Thanks Bridget Brennan of Forbes for this pearl:
"If the consumer economy had a sex, it would be female. Women drive 70-80% of all consumer purchasing, through a combination of their buying power and influence. Influence means that even when a woman isn’t paying for something herself, she is often the influence or veto vote behind someone else’s purchase."
"it's been rather uncomfortable" - You're getting paid to air your views and spread your beliefs among the population. You're a popular academic. you're comparing this to the struggle of people who are ACTUALLY SUICIDAL
No, he really isn't. He just states that she should have the right to risk offending him in the pursuit of truth, just as he risks offending others in a pursuit of truth. He then even says that she is perfectly right to do so and it freezes the crap out of the interviewer because she has realised he is spot on.
"the philosophy that claims that group identity is paramount is the same as that which killed millions of people in the Soviet Union and China" - The interviewer handles this terribly, but really she's right in saying he's being an alt-right troll here. He's comparing people who just want the freedom to ask others to address them in a certain manner to top-down totalitarian government, by throwing the whole lot into some vague strawman called 'identity politics'. It's fucking insane, but it's catchy, because it justifies bigotry, and people love to be bigoted.
I think you're right that he is trolling here, however regarding the Identity politics why should he pretend that others are something that they are anatomically not? Once again I don't care what people get up to in their private life, but don't like to be forced to use labels either positively or negatively for others...
Not trying to pick any fights, just coming back with what I feel are fair responses to your points (hence some agreement).
I recall the contempt on here for the Palace cheerleaders and find myself a bit confused though. Some seem to think if it's Palace it's bad but if it's darts it's good.
"Where do you draw the line?" is rhetoric that has been used for the last few centuries (basically post-Enlightenment) in the face of social progress/change, but okay.
Thanks
The icing on the cake for me was during Leuth’s stand off with BBW and BR7 Addick, he just pulls in Red in se8 into it as well.
Classic
Regarding YouTube and Tumblr...well, 63/38 is technically a majority but speaking about it like it's some sort of male realm is poisonous and awful considering that that 38% is still, like, a billion people. It's misleading and irrelevant. The Tumblr statistic is more pronounced but it's still extremely dangerous to say it appertains to a single gender when there are a great many users from other genders. It would be like saying that Charlton Athletic has a male fanbase.
Regarding Valerie Solanas...well I've seen the Scum Manifesto and found it quite funny tbh...she was an extremist of course, but an enormous outlier. Saying that all feminists think like her would be like saying that all Brexiters think like Thomas Mair. And so you're yet to address my claim that (the overwhelming majority of) feminists don't want to discourage men so much as behaviour that most of us would find repulsive anyway.
"A woman is often an influence or veto vote over goods bought" smells like grade-A horseshit to me! Their 80% figure is basically 'all goods bought by women, or men who happen to live with women".
There are different kinds of offence. There's the kind that ruffles the feathers of a wealthy academic. There's also the kind that makes trans people kill themselves. And there are many shades in between. Not all offence is equal!
I don't think people should be forced to use labels, but I think they should respect other people and treat them as they've been requested to.
Hope that all seems fair...
Reasoning can happen mathematically I suppose, but for the main it is words and language we depend on. As such they deserve to be handled well. Ironically the initial part of the debate is about words used to describe trans people, and that in itself highlights the significance of language when applied to reasoning.
That said I am not sure that 'winning' an argument matters at all until that victory is developed into something manifest. The old 'so what you gonna do about it?' bit.
I am also not sure that reasoning and logic are the only tools to be called upon in any debate, to assume that there is not a wider more holistic angle in an argument is missing quite a lot. The emotions, and life experiences a person has are allowable in my view. For example the grid girls debate might be seen differently by parents of daughters than by people with no children. The same conclusion might be reached by both, but the route might be different.
I mentioned the role of mathematics earlier in considering a debate, but there may be other tools too, creative ones....after all in debate analogies and examples are used a lot, not simply pointing to phenomena alone.
You started it smudge banning wouldya
They want to be a grid girl. Have we reached that the very situation of women being able to choose and flourish in any careeer they choose unless it crosses some line drawn by the miserable fuckers in their ridiculous version of feminism and equality.
The mixed doubles seem to be spilling from their dresses.
Well at least they don't get walked on.