why is it an issue if people are overweight as long as they are happy about it? It doesn't bother me if people smoke, drink, take drugs or want gender transition surgery so why should it bother others if I'm overweight?
I guess it’s because they are seen as more likely to be a burden on the NHS
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
I know what you mean but the welfare state doesn't work that way though - the money isn't banked. You pay your taxes now to help those who need help, now. Then when you need help those that are paying taxes help you.
If more taxes are needed to provide health and social care for an ageing population then taxes need to be raised.
I can't argue with that. But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little. That surely has to be addressed also
why is it an issue if people are overweight as long as they are happy about it? It doesn't bother me if people smoke, drink, take drugs or want gender transition surgery so why should it bother others if I'm overweight?
I guess it’s because they are seen as more likely to be a burden on the NHS
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
I know what you mean but the welfare state doesn't work that way though - the money isn't banked. You pay your taxes now to help those who need help, now. Then when you need help those that are paying taxes help you.
If more taxes are needed to provide health and social care for an ageing population then taxes need to be raised.
I can't argue with that. But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little. That surely has to be addressed also
So don't help those that can't afford to help themselves?
Or would you manage who can be helped? Who would you help?
why is it an issue if people are overweight as long as they are happy about it? It doesn't bother me if people smoke, drink, take drugs or want gender transition surgery so why should it bother others if I'm overweight?
I guess it’s because they are seen as more likely to be a burden on the NHS
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
I know what you mean but the welfare state doesn't work that way though - the money isn't banked. You pay your taxes now to help those who need help, now. Then when you need help those that are paying taxes help you.
If more taxes are needed to provide health and social care for an ageing population then taxes need to be raised.
I can't argue with that. But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little. That surely has to be addressed also
Easily addressed - cancel the concept of universal health care, free at the point of delivery, irrespective of ability to pay - and replace with a private insurance based system.
why is it an issue if people are overweight as long as they are happy about it? It doesn't bother me if people smoke, drink, take drugs or want gender transition surgery so why should it bother others if I'm overweight?
I guess it’s because they are seen as more likely to be a burden on the NHS
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
I know what you mean but the welfare state doesn't work that way though - the money isn't banked. You pay your taxes now to help those who need help, now. Then when you need help those that are paying taxes help you.
If more taxes are needed to provide health and social care for an ageing population then taxes need to be raised.
I can't argue with that. But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little. That surely has to be addressed also
Easily addressed - cancel the concept of universal health care, free at the point of delivery, irrespective of ability to pay - and replace with a private insurance based system.
why is it an issue if people are overweight as long as they are happy about it? It doesn't bother me if people smoke, drink, take drugs or want gender transition surgery so why should it bother others if I'm overweight?
I guess it’s because they are seen as more likely to be a burden on the NHS
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
I know what you mean but the welfare state doesn't work that way though - the money isn't banked. You pay your taxes now to help those who need help, now. Then when you need help those that are paying taxes help you.
If more taxes are needed to provide health and social care for an ageing population then taxes need to be raised.
I can't argue with that. But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little. That surely has to be addressed also
Easily addressed - cancel the concept of universal health care, free at the point of delivery, irrespective of ability to pay - and replace with a private insurance based system.
I know what I want.
Health care system swapsies, ours for yours?
Now let me have time to think about that one .....
why is it an issue if people are overweight as long as they are happy about it? It doesn't bother me if people smoke, drink, take drugs or want gender transition surgery so why should it bother others if I'm overweight?
I guess it’s because they are seen as more likely to be a burden on the NHS
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
I know what you mean but the welfare state doesn't work that way though - the money isn't banked. You pay your taxes now to help those who need help, now. Then when you need help those that are paying taxes help you.
If more taxes are needed to provide health and social care for an ageing population then taxes need to be raised.
I can't argue with that. But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little. That surely has to be addressed also
So don't help those that can't afford to help themselves?
Or would you manage who can be helped? Who would you help?
That question has been asked many times over many years and various governments have failed to address the shortfall in money for the NHS. I certainly don't have the answer.
Been saying for years we should have NHS gyms. Free/heavily subsidised memberships (much like local libraries etc you can access books for free), PT's and a nutritionist who work there. Doubt it will ever happen or even if it's practical. But long term could save money for the NHS.
That question has been asked many times over many years and various governments have failed to address the shortfall in money for the NHS. I certainly don't have the answer.
Do you?
Yep, but if I told you the oil companies would go bankrupt and SD's national leader won't get his wall.
why is it an issue if people are overweight as long as they are happy about it? It doesn't bother me if people smoke, drink, take drugs or want gender transition surgery so why should it bother others if I'm overweight?
I guess it’s because they are seen as more likely to be a burden on the NHS
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
I know what you mean but the welfare state doesn't work that way though - the money isn't banked. You pay your taxes now to help those who need help, now. Then when you need help those that are paying taxes help you.
If more taxes are needed to provide health and social care for an ageing population then taxes need to be raised.
I can't argue with that. But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little. That surely has to be addressed also
As has been said we are living longer so as we get older we need more care, for more conditions and for longer and that all costs money.
Stopping some overseas visitors abusing the system (which should be stopped, no arguement) won't alter that and sounds far to much like "let's blame the foreigners" which is just another variation of "let's blame the poor/feckless/smokers or even the fat"
why is it an issue if people are overweight as long as they are happy about it? It doesn't bother me if people smoke, drink, take drugs or want gender transition surgery so why should it bother others if I'm overweight?
I guess it’s because they are seen as more likely to be a burden on the NHS
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
I know what you mean but the welfare state doesn't work that way though - the money isn't banked. You pay your taxes now to help those who need help, now. Then when you need help those that are paying taxes help you.
If more taxes are needed to provide health and social care for an ageing population then taxes need to be raised.
I can't argue with that. But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little. That surely has to be addressed also
So don't help those that can't afford to help themselves?
Or would you manage who can be helped? Who would you help?
That question has been asked many times over many years and various governments have failed to address the shortfall in money for the NHS. I certainly don't have the answer.
Do you?
The problem is that we are lead by politicians and not statesmen and women. Generally speaking, raising taxes doesn't get votes.
This is interesting although others can draw conclusions from it.
My conclusion is that we need to spend more than we do - and because we (thankfully and something to be immensely proud of) have an overwhelmingly publicly funded healthcare system the only solution for me is to raise taxes, specifically for the NHS. Yes we can improve efficiency, yes we can clamp down on health tourism - but neither of those will deliver the funds required for a chronically underfunded NHS.
why is it an issue if people are overweight as long as they are happy about it? It doesn't bother me if people smoke, drink, take drugs or want gender transition surgery so why should it bother others if I'm overweight?
I guess it’s because they are seen as more likely to be a burden on the NHS
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
I know what you mean but the welfare state doesn't work that way though - the money isn't banked. You pay your taxes now to help those who need help, now. Then when you need help those that are paying taxes help you.
If more taxes are needed to provide health and social care for an ageing population then taxes need to be raised.
I can't argue with that. But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little. That surely has to be addressed also
So don't help those that can't afford to help themselves?
Or would you manage who can be helped? Who would you help?
That question has been asked many times over many years and various governments have failed to address the shortfall in money for the NHS. I certainly don't have the answer.
Do you?
I know there's a fair chance of being burnt at the stake for this (NHS = national religion etc) but I'd set up a two tier health system where some emergency treatment is offered free of charge and other less acute issues are paid for by private insurance. Children and other vulnerable groups could be excluded but if you're a fit working age adult you can make an informed decision as to what level of cover you want. It works perfectly well in other countries including those across the channel that the NHS's self appointed guardians seem to idolise but somehow proposing similar setups over here is akin to standing up and informing everyone you're a Nazi. Seig Heil :-)
why is it an issue if people are overweight as long as they are happy about it? It doesn't bother me if people smoke, drink, take drugs or want gender transition surgery so why should it bother others if I'm overweight?
I guess it’s because they are seen as more likely to be a burden on the NHS
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
I know what you mean but the welfare state doesn't work that way though - the money isn't banked. You pay your taxes now to help those who need help, now. Then when you need help those that are paying taxes help you.
If more taxes are needed to provide health and social care for an ageing population then taxes need to be raised.
I can't argue with that. But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little. That surely has to be addressed also
So don't help those that can't afford to help themselves?
Or would you manage who can be helped? Who would you help?
That question has been asked many times over many years and various governments have failed to address the shortfall in money for the NHS. I certainly don't have the answer.
Do you?
The problem is that we are lead by politicians and not statesmen and women. Generally speaking, raising taxes doesn't get votes.
This is interesting although others can draw conclusions from it.
My conclusion is that we need to spend more than we do - and because we (thankfully and something to be immensely proud of) have an overwhelmingly publicly funded healthcare system the only solution for me is to raise taxes, specifically for the NHS. Yes we can improve efficiency, yes we can clamp down on health tourism - but neither of those will deliver the funds required for a chronically underfunded NHS.
I hear that there is a spare £350m a week that could be spent on the NHS : - )
why is it an issue if people are overweight as long as they are happy about it? It doesn't bother me if people smoke, drink, take drugs or want gender transition surgery so why should it bother others if I'm overweight?
I guess it’s because they are seen as more likely to be a burden on the NHS
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
I know what you mean but the welfare state doesn't work that way though - the money isn't banked. You pay your taxes now to help those who need help, now. Then when you need help those that are paying taxes help you.
If more taxes are needed to provide health and social care for an ageing population then taxes need to be raised.
I can't argue with that. But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little. That surely has to be addressed also
So don't help those that can't afford to help themselves?
Or would you manage who can be helped? Who would you help?
That question has been asked many times over many years and various governments have failed to address the shortfall in money for the NHS. I certainly don't have the answer.
Do you?
The problem is that we are lead by politicians and not statesmen and women. Generally speaking, raising taxes doesn't get votes.
This is interesting although others can draw conclusions from it.
My conclusion is that we need to spend more than we do - and because we (thankfully and something to be immensely proud of) have an overwhelmingly publicly funded healthcare system the only solution for me is to raise taxes, specifically for the NHS. Yes we can improve efficiency, yes we can clamp down on health tourism - but neither of those will deliver the funds required for a chronically underfunded NHS.
I agree with what you say But it would be a very brave party to announce before an election that they were going to raise tax. Personally I would like to see a proper effort to clamp down on all the tax avoidance schemes that cost our economy billions every year. All major parties pay lip service to this but actually do very little to stop it.
why is it an issue if people are overweight as long as they are happy about it? It doesn't bother me if people smoke, drink, take drugs or want gender transition surgery so why should it bother others if I'm overweight?
I guess it’s because they are seen as more likely to be a burden on the NHS
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
I know what you mean but the welfare state doesn't work that way though - the money isn't banked. You pay your taxes now to help those who need help, now. Then when you need help those that are paying taxes help you.
If more taxes are needed to provide health and social care for an ageing population then taxes need to be raised.
I can't argue with that. But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little. That surely has to be addressed also
I agree on that.
The point was the NHS tourists, while wrong aren't by any means the biggest "drain" on the NHS.
As has been said we are living longer so as we get older we need more care, for more conditions and for longer and that all costs money.
Stopping some overseas visitors abusing the system (which should be stopped, no arguement) won't alter that and sounds far to much like "let's blame the foreigners" which is just another variation of "let's blame the poor/feckless/smokers or even the fat"
Arguably I believe it is the combination of foreign, obese, poor, smokers, alcohol or drug abusers.
Not the niche that are individuals that count to all of those labels, as that would be such a tiny number it would be insignificant.
Instead the individuals that account for each label combined are what I believe equal the main problem that the system never accounted for.
*EDIT*
Don't forget the tax avoidance cheats, whether rich or poor.
why is it an issue if people are overweight as long as they are happy about it? It doesn't bother me if people smoke, drink, take drugs or want gender transition surgery so why should it bother others if I'm overweight?
I guess it’s because they are seen as more likely to be a burden on the NHS
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
I know what you mean but the welfare state doesn't work that way though - the money isn't banked. You pay your taxes now to help those who need help, now. Then when you need help those that are paying taxes help you.
If more taxes are needed to provide health and social care for an ageing population then taxes need to be raised.
I can't argue with that. But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little. That surely has to be addressed also
So don't help those that can't afford to help themselves?
Or would you manage who can be helped? Who would you help?
That question has been asked many times over many years and various governments have failed to address the shortfall in money for the NHS. I certainly don't have the answer.
Do you?
The problem is that we are lead by politicians and not statesmen and women. Generally speaking, raising taxes doesn't get votes.
This is interesting although others can draw conclusions from it.
My conclusion is that we need to spend more than we do - and because we (thankfully and something to be immensely proud of) have an overwhelmingly publicly funded healthcare system the only solution for me is to raise taxes, specifically for the NHS. Yes we can improve efficiency, yes we can clamp down on health tourism - but neither of those will deliver the funds required for a chronically underfunded NHS.
I agree with what you say But it would be a very brave party to announce before an election that they were going to raise tax. Personally I would like to see a proper effort to clamp down on all the tax avoidance schemes that cost our economy billions every year. All major parties pay lip service to this but actually do very little to stop it.
Amen to that - if we need to raise taxes then sobeit but we must also make sure that those that should be paying their fair share are hounded until they do.
Been saying for years we should have NHS gyms. Free/heavily subsidised memberships (much like local libraries etc you can access books for free), PT's and a nutritionist who work there. Doubt it will ever happen or even if it's practical. But long term could save money for the NHS.
It costs nothing to go for a brisk walk/run in the park. Dietary information is available from libraries. There are plenty of street gyms. It's up to people to get off their arses and do something.
It's the less well off that are affected. Having to eat the cheap crap at Farmfoods etc. No nutritional positives, just fills them up. 24 burgers for £1, just makes you wonder what the hell is in them. Not sure about the price but you get my meaning I hope.
The inability to cook (I assume) contributes as well. Fresh produce isn't that expensive.
I cooked dinner for 5 yesterday for a total cost of under £3. It's doable if you want to.
No offence, but the quality of the ingredients at that price probably would mean either you dished up small portions or they had little nutrition left in them. Also can't have been any real meat in there..
meat (Yes VEGANS I KNOW! Meat is directly related to heart disease, increased cholesterol, body fat etc however this can be reduced by increasing the quality of meat and avoiding processed foods, now get back to your low protein diet and Oreo's and pretending to be healthier all round...)
p.s VEGANS - I have noticed a marked increase in the number of vegans lecturing meat eaters of late, it really pisses me off as I'm not telling you how to live, just to leave me to live my life. You can dig at the producers and butchers etc all you like... Cheers.
Fuck me. Is your high quality, high protein diet high in irony too?
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
But the problem is, although they've been paying in all their life, at the time they started doing that life expectancy was a lot lower and the treatments available were less wide ranging and less expensive. As a result the contribution rates were set at a lower level than they'd need to be to cover the volume of treatment that people have actually received. In addition, as @bobmunro has pointed out, there isn't a pot of contributions sitting around waiting to fund the care that people have paid in for, it's coming out of the tax revenues paid by the working age population. As the proportion of the population that is of pension age is growing each year, we either need to take more money from each of us to cover the growing demand, scale back on what's funded, or import young healthy workers to decrease the pensioner/worker ratio. We may even need to do all three in varying proportions, and we need to start having sensible conversations about the short term fixes and long term strategy to deal with this.
Quite a few issues being conflated. Obesity is linked to a number of chronic conditions including heart disease, cancer and diabetes. All are potentially life limiting, and expensive to be managed and sorted out. Same is also true of smoking and drinking. There will be less of a burden on the NHS if people were healthier. Part of me wants to thank all the smokers drinkers, obese people for paying all that extra tax and then voluntarily shortening their lives, as all people end up costing the NHS more the older they get...
Health tourism is an issue, but not a big one. Can it be stopped without actually costing more than would be saved? You'd hope so.
Immigration... Well immigrants tend to be net contributors and more so than the local populace because we don't have to pay to educate them. But, it leads to a population increase so if all that lovely net contribution isn't spent on increases NHS provision, we have a problem.
People/corporations not paying tax. Hell yeah, serious problem. Should be the priority.
End of the day, we need to take care of ourselves. Yes, we all pay for it and are entitled to use it, but don't shit on your own doorstep. Less we need it, less it costs.
It's the less well off that are affected. Having to eat the cheap crap at Farmfoods etc. No nutritional positives, just fills them up. 24 burgers for £1, just makes you wonder what the hell is in them. Not sure about the price but you get my meaning I hope.
The inability to cook (I assume) contributes as well. Fresh produce isn't that expensive.
I cooked dinner for 5 yesterday for a total cost of under £3. It's doable if you want to.
No offence, but the quality of the ingredients at that price probably would mean either you dished up small portions or they had little nutrition left in them. Also can't have been any real meat in there..
meat (Yes VEGANS I KNOW! Meat is directly related to heart disease, increased cholesterol, body fat etc however this can be reduced by increasing the quality of meat and avoiding processed foods, now get back to your low protein diet and Oreo's and pretending to be healthier all round...)
p.s VEGANS - I have noticed a marked increase in the number of vegans lecturing meat eaters of late, it really pisses me off as I'm not telling you how to live, just to leave me to live my life. You can dig at the producers and butchers etc all you like... Cheers.
Fuck me.
Not into sodomising pigs, cheers though.
I think only one line of what you bolded was ironic "now get back to your low protein diet and Oreo's and pretending to be healthier all round" which admittedly was not well thought out, purely out of ranting having been lectured just this weekend by a very overweight vegan who was chomping on biscuits whilst lecturing!
I apologise for ranting at the entirety of vegans. In my heart I was just ranting at the one who whinged at me for eating my fish and chip lunch on Sunday!
It's the less well off that are affected. Having to eat the cheap crap at Farmfoods etc. No nutritional positives, just fills them up. 24 burgers for £1, just makes you wonder what the hell is in them. Not sure about the price but you get my meaning I hope.
The inability to cook (I assume) contributes as well. Fresh produce isn't that expensive.
I cooked dinner for 5 yesterday for a total cost of under £3. It's doable if you want to.
Instead of writing lengthy anecdotes about your London friends all being healthy and going to the gym, cut and paste this phrase "I have never been to northern Ireland"
why is it an issue if people are overweight as long as they are happy about it? It doesn't bother me if people smoke, drink, take drugs or want gender transition surgery so why should it bother others if I'm overweight?
I guess it’s because they are seen as more likely to be a burden on the NHS
better stop people pot holing and mountaineering then as it's a burden on emergency services, or cooking full stop as that will cut down on house fires etc. Just because you are fuller figured it doesn't mean you are not healthy. Nothing wrong with my cholesterol, although my mate who is as skinny as a rake has his through the roof, nothing wrong with my blood pressure either. Get a bit fed up with fattism and fatties being a drain on the NHS, biggest drain is health tourists and the increase in immigration. Plus, watch a 24 hours Ambulance watch type programme and I don't see many call outs due to fat people but I see many, many cases where they are dealing with a pisshead or cokehead and getting abused into the bargain too. Drinking in it's many guises is a massive drain on the NHS but I don't see many calls to ban alcohol etc.
No Large, it's not. It's the ageing population, with the increase in diseases of old age (dementia, certain cancers etc) and inadequate social care provision meaning that people who should be being discharged from hospital are having to stay there as they don't have the right care at home.
But if that ageing population have paid their taxes and NI contribution 's all their life they are only getting what they are entitled to.
I know what you mean but the welfare state doesn't work that way though - the money isn't banked. You pay your taxes now to help those who need help, now. Then when you need help those that are paying taxes help you.
If more taxes are needed to provide health and social care for an ageing population then taxes need to be raised.
I can't argue with that. But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little. That surely has to be addressed also
So don't help those that can't afford to help themselves?
Or would you manage who can be helped? Who would you help?
That question has been asked many times over many years and various governments have failed to address the shortfall in money for the NHS. I certainly don't have the answer.
Do you?
I know there's a fair chance of being burnt at the stake for this (NHS = national religion etc) but I'd set up a two tier health system where some emergency treatment is offered free of charge and other less acute issues are paid for by private insurance. Children and other vulnerable groups could be excluded but if you're a fit working age adult you can make an informed decision as to what level of cover you want. It works perfectly well in other countries including those across the channel that the NHS's self appointed guardians seem to idolise but somehow proposing similar setups over here is akin to standing up and informing everyone you're a Nazi. Seig Heil :-)
It’s the diet fads that wind me up. Someone put up on LinkedIn the other day that cryogenic recovery tanks will be big this year. They’re for professional athletes ffs. As if the man on the street who wants do a bit of exercise needs a cryogenic recovery tank. It’s patheic how a bit of branding and PR seems to send people into a spin. People have been talking to me about Barry’s boot camp. It’s the flavour of the month and just what all the glossy magazines are talking about. In the same way we all walked around a couple of years ago like mindless morons with our protein shakes and then started buying smoothies etc, sure as hell we have this latest nonsense
I’m not disputing Barry has a boot camp that will get you fit or these protein shakes are good for whatever, just amazed at how easily bought in some people are with a bit of marketing and PR
A mate of mine used to compete at a very high level in some form of martial art, he also used to piss iron man competitions and marathons. He used to eat absolute shit, drinks with the best of them yet would do triathlons and all sorts. His vice health wise was rubbing methalated spirit on his feet to not get blisters. Used to laugh his bollocks off at anyone moaning they can't lose weight or moaned about how they had got fat.
Eat less, move more he'd say
he lives in Australia now and still is either shagging, drinking Guinness, snow boarding or swimming in shark infested oceans.
Comments
But there are far too many people using the NHS who have contributed nothing or very little.
That surely has to be addressed also
Or would you manage who can be helped? Who would you help?
I know what I want.
I certainly don't have the answer.
Do you?
The point was the NHS tourists, while wrong aren't by any means the biggest "drain" on the NHS. EDIT 0.3% of the overall budget https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourism-whats-cost/
As has been said we are living longer so as we get older we need more care, for more conditions and for longer and that all costs money.
Stopping some overseas visitors abusing the system (which should be stopped, no arguement) won't alter that and sounds far to much like "let's blame the foreigners" which is just another variation of "let's blame the poor/feckless/smokers or even the fat"
This is interesting although others can draw conclusions from it.
https://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-does-uk-healthcare-spending-compare-internationally/
My conclusion is that we need to spend more than we do - and because we (thankfully and something to be immensely proud of) have an overwhelmingly publicly funded healthcare system the only solution for me is to raise taxes, specifically for the NHS. Yes we can improve efficiency, yes we can clamp down on health tourism - but neither of those will deliver the funds required for a chronically underfunded NHS.
But it would be a very brave party to announce before an election that they were going to raise tax.
Personally I would like to see a proper effort to clamp down on all the tax avoidance schemes that cost our economy billions every year.
All major parties pay lip service to this but actually do very little to stop it.
Not the niche that are individuals that count to all of those labels, as that would be such a tiny number it would be insignificant.
Instead the individuals that account for each label combined are what I believe equal the main problem that the system never accounted for.
*EDIT*
Don't forget the tax avoidance cheats, whether rich or poor.
It's up to people to get off their arses and do something.
Health tourism is an issue, but not a big one. Can it be stopped without actually costing more than would be saved? You'd hope so.
Immigration... Well immigrants tend to be net contributors and more so than the local populace because we don't have to pay to educate them. But, it leads to a population increase so if all that lovely net contribution isn't spent on increases NHS provision, we have a problem.
People/corporations not paying tax. Hell yeah, serious problem. Should be the priority.
End of the day, we need to take care of ourselves. Yes, we all pay for it and are entitled to use it, but don't shit on your own doorstep. Less we need it, less it costs.
I think only one line of what you bolded was ironic "now get back to your low protein diet and Oreo's and pretending to be healthier all round" which admittedly was not well thought out, purely out of ranting having been lectured just this weekend by a very overweight vegan who was chomping on biscuits whilst lecturing!
I apologise for ranting at the entirety of vegans. In my heart I was just ranting at the one who whinged at me for eating my fish and chip lunch on Sunday!
(Had to look up where takes the crown https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/health/northern-ireland-highest-number-obese-14000645")
I’m not disputing Barry has a boot camp that will get you fit or these protein shakes are good for whatever, just amazed at how easily bought in some people are with a bit of marketing and PR
Eat less, move more he'd say
he lives in Australia now and still is either shagging, drinking Guinness, snow boarding or swimming in shark infested oceans.
Never touched a protein shake in his life