London has always had rough bits and always had crime - there's never been a golden age. It's a city and a mix of good and bad.
Lazy stereotyping about areas is usually done by those who haven't been there for about thirty years. You either like cities or you don't - if you only look for bad stuff I guarantee you can find it anywhere.
Chislehurst at chucking out time is not a place to loiter.
London has always had rough bits and always had crime - there's never been a golden age. It's a city and a mix of good and bad.
Lazy stereotyping about areas is usually done by those who haven't been there for about thirty years. You either like cities or you don't - if you only look for bad stuff I guarantee you can find it anywhere.
Chislehurst at chucking out time is not a place to loiter.
London has always had rough bits and always had crime - there's never been a golden age. It's a city and a mix of good and bad.
Lazy stereotyping about areas is usually done by those who haven't been there for about thirty years. You either like cities or you don't - if you only look for bad stuff I guarantee you can find it anywhere.
Chislehurst at chucking out time is not a place to loiter.
London has always had rough bits and always had crime - there's never been a golden age. It's a city and a mix of good and bad.
Lazy stereotyping about areas is usually done by those who haven't been there for about thirty years. You either like cities or you don't - if you only look for bad stuff I guarantee you can find it anywhere.
Chislehurst at chucking out time is not a place to loiter.
Especially at the ramblers rest...
Gang warfare in Chislehurst on the rise again....
Yeah, the bloods and the crisps outside the pop in centre..
London has always had rough bits and always had crime - there's never been a golden age. It's a city and a mix of good and bad.
Lazy stereotyping about areas is usually done by those who haven't been there for about thirty years. You either like cities or you don't - if you only look for bad stuff I guarantee you can find it anywhere.
Never lived in South East London only ever lived in the South West, Putney, Roehampton, Wimbledon and Kingston.
I’ve had times in those areas when I have been chased and almost attacked. It’s something which you have accepted will happen living in a big city. Following on from your comment, pretty much everyone I know who have or currently lives in Sussex has been jumped at some point in their life.
After six years of living in London I completely hated it, but some people love it. You can never say never, but don’t think I would ever move back to London.
London has always had rough bits and always had crime - there's never been a golden age. It's a city and a mix of good and bad.
Lazy stereotyping about areas is usually done by those who haven't been there for about thirty years. You either like cities or you don't - if you only look for bad stuff I guarantee you can find it anywhere.
Never lived in South East London only ever lived in the South West, Putney, Roehampton, Wimbledon and Kingston.
I’ve had times in those areas when I have been chased and almost attacked. It’s something which you have accepted will happen living in a big city. Following on from your comment, pretty much everyone I know who have or currently lives in Sussex has been jumped at some point in their life.
After six years of living in London I completely hated it, but some people love it. You can never say never, but don’t think I would ever move back to London.
I lived in south east London for the first 30 years of my life and never experienced directly any violence or any threat of violence whatsoever. Maybe I was lucky.
Would I move from my green and pleasant village in Cheshire back to London? In a heart beat.
London has always had rough bits and always had crime - there's never been a golden age. It's a city and a mix of good and bad.
Lazy stereotyping about areas is usually done by those who haven't been there for about thirty years. You either like cities or you don't - if you only look for bad stuff I guarantee you can find it anywhere.
Never lived in South East London only ever lived in the South West, Putney, Roehampton, Wimbledon and Kingston.
I’ve had times in those areas when I have been chased and almost attacked. It’s something which you have accepted will happen living in a big city. Following on from your comment, pretty much everyone I know who have or currently lives in Sussex has been jumped at some point in their life.
After six years of living in London I completely hated it, but some people love it. You can never say never, but don’t think I would ever move back to London.
Cities invariably have problems that towns and villages don't have and also offer certain things that towns and villages can't. It's hard to compare the two and it also depends on what suits your lifestyle.
I do think cities are harder to live in as you get older as the noise and chaos isn't so attractìve and you tend to notice the anti-social aspects a lot more. Constant change is a part of city life and your appetite for it lessens with age but on the other hand some villages and towns can possibly be a bit dull.
The one thing I have found irritating over time is people telling me uninvited what a shitthole SE London is even though they know I live there and announcing they'd never live there - I've never really known what they expect as a reply. If I said something about where they live they would invariably take massive offence.
London has always had rough bits and always had crime - there's never been a golden age. It's a city and a mix of good and bad.
Lazy stereotyping about areas is usually done by those who haven't been there for about thirty years. You either like cities or you don't - if you only look for bad stuff I guarantee you can find it anywhere.
Never lived in South East London only ever lived in the South West, Putney, Roehampton, Wimbledon and Kingston.
I’ve had times in those areas when I have been chased and almost attacked. It’s something which you have accepted will happen living in a big city. Following on from your comment, pretty much everyone I know who have or currently lives in Sussex has been jumped at some point in their life.
After six years of living in London I completely hated it, but some people love it. You can never say never, but don’t think I would ever move back to London.
Cities invariably have problems that towns and villages don't have and also offer certain things that towns and villages can't. It's hard to compare the two and it also depends on what suits your lifestyle.
I do think cities are harder to live in as you get older as the noise and chaos isn't so attractìve and you tend to notice the anti-social aspects a lot more. Constant change is a part of city life and your appetite for it lessens with age but on the other hand some villages and towns can possibly be a bit dull.
The one thing I have found irritating over time is people telling me uninvited what a shitthole SE London is even though they know I live there and announcing they'd never live there - I've never really known what they expect as a reply. If I said something about where they live they would invariably take massive offence.
Spot on.
When people say where are you from I take pride in saying London, and then add 'the right side of the river!'.
Maybe I'm one of the rarities that miss the chaos of living in a big city - even at the ripe old age of 60. Not just any city, but the greatest city on earth, and I truly feel alive when I'm in London. Yes of course it's very nice where I live and I'm very lucky with what life has given me, and no I wouldn't want to go back and live on the Glyndon Estate again as I did growing up (although it was a good childhood) - but when I eventually retire I'll be coming back home.
London has always had rough bits and always had crime - there's never been a golden age. It's a city and a mix of good and bad.
Lazy stereotyping about areas is usually done by those who haven't been there for about thirty years. You either like cities or you don't - if you only look for bad stuff I guarantee you can find it anywhere.
Never lived in South East London only ever lived in the South West, Putney, Roehampton, Wimbledon and Kingston.
I’ve had times in those areas when I have been chased and almost attacked. It’s something which you have accepted will happen living in a big city. Following on from your comment, pretty much everyone I know who have or currently lives in Sussex has been jumped at some point in their life.
After six years of living in London I completely hated it, but some people love it. You can never say never, but don’t think I would ever move back to London.
Cities invariably have problems that towns and villages don't have and also offer certain things that towns and villages can't. It's hard to compare the two and it also depends on what suits your lifestyle.
I do think cities are harder to live in as you get older as the noise and chaos isn't so attractìve and you tend to notice the anti-social aspects a lot more. Constant change is a part of city life and your appetite for it lessens with age but on the other hand some villages and towns can possibly be a bit dull.
The one thing I have found irritating over time is people telling me uninvited what a shitthole SE London is even though they know I live there and announcing they'd never live there - I've never really known what they expect as a reply. If I said something about where they live they would invariably take massive offence.
Spot on.
When people say where you are from I take pride in saying London, and then add 'the right side of the river!'.
Maybe I'm one of the rarities that miss the chaos of living in a big city - even at the ripe old age of 60. Not just any city, but the greatest city on earth, and I truly feel alive when I'm in London. Yes of course it's very nice where I live and I'm very lucky with what life has given me, and no I wouldn't want to go back and live on the Glyndon Estate again as I did growing up (although it was a good childhood) - but when I eventually retire I'll be coming back home.
I enjoy living in London - for better or worse it's home. There's good stuff everywhere if you open your eyes.
As the above video shows, public transport is where London can be seen at it's worst. I don't drive and do 4/5 bus trips a day through Woolwich and see incidents all the time. Racist abuse is common but the most surprising is women screaming and fighting over the buggy space!
I think it’s laughable that you think you can’t go out past 11 but hey ho.
Hope the culprits get caught.
would you venture out in Peckham at midnight?, as that's where the crime took place - i personally wouldn't but that shouldn't be the case.
I cannot believe Peckham or Brixton are as bad as they were in the early 80s - back then I ran a group of betting shops in those areas and used to drink regularly in what were considered no-go areas. I never felt unsafe, but I did know a lot of locals so perhaps that helped.
They’re not, they’re getting gentrified, Brixton especially. Peckham still has a bit of a weird divide, white yummy mummy types sitting in the cafes whilst Nigerian background working class people working in the market stalls etc and seem to exist independently from each other but in the same place. And hipsters as well.
Loafers, no socks brigade no doubt. It’s been 30 years since I regularly drank in Peckham, and if the fecking hipsters are there it will be another 30 years (I wish).
It’s cos of the overground access to shoreditch Plus shoreditch now being an expensive shithole rather than just a shithole.
Peckham is (usually) a decent night out these days. The only place in SE London I wouldn't go out drinking in is Catford Broadway, and even that is getting there now.
London is one big expensive shithole - welcome to the future.
My mate said they overheard some one saying they had just bought a property “in catford village”.
I like gentrification to an extent (better night life etc) but you need to maintain affordable and council housing.
Wow. It’s like when a few of us got a cab after a night out a few years ago, the cab driver called Deptford “west Greenwich”.
Mate of mine (I'll admit he is a snob) always says he lives in South Blackheath....he actually lives south of Lee High Road.
I think it’s laughable that you think you can’t go out past 11 but hey ho.
Hope the culprits get caught.
would you venture out in Peckham at midnight?, as that's where the crime took place - i personally wouldn't but that shouldn't be the case.
I cannot believe Peckham or Brixton are as bad as they were in the early 80s - back then I ran a group of betting shops in those areas and used to drink regularly in what were considered no-go areas. I never felt unsafe, but I did know a lot of locals so perhaps that helped.
They’re not, they’re getting gentrified, Brixton especially. Peckham still has a bit of a weird divide, white yummy mummy types sitting in the cafes whilst Nigerian background working class people working in the market stalls etc and seem to exist independently from each other but in the same place. And hipsters as well.
Loafers, no socks brigade no doubt. It’s been 30 years since I regularly drank in Peckham, and if the fecking hipsters are there it will be another 30 years (I wish).
It’s cos of the overground access to shoreditch Plus shoreditch now being an expensive shithole rather than just a shithole.
Peckham is (usually) a decent night out these days. The only place in SE London I wouldn't go out drinking in is Catford Broadway, and even that is getting there now.
London is one big expensive shithole - welcome to the future.
My mate said they overheard some one saying they had just bought a property “in catford village”.
I like gentrification to an extent (better night life etc) but you need to maintain affordable and council housing.
Wow. It’s like when a few of us got a cab after a night out a few years ago, the cab driver called Deptford “west Greenwich”.
Mate of mine (I'll admit he is a snob) always says he lives in South Blackheath....he actually lives south of Lee High Road.
I think it’s laughable that you think you can’t go out past 11 but hey ho.
Hope the culprits get caught.
would you venture out in Peckham at midnight?, as that's where the crime took place - i personally wouldn't but that shouldn't be the case.
I cannot believe Peckham or Brixton are as bad as they were in the early 80s - back then I ran a group of betting shops in those areas and used to drink regularly in what were considered no-go areas. I never felt unsafe, but I did know a lot of locals so perhaps that helped.
They’re not, they’re getting gentrified, Brixton especially. Peckham still has a bit of a weird divide, white yummy mummy types sitting in the cafes whilst Nigerian background working class people working in the market stalls etc and seem to exist independently from each other but in the same place. And hipsters as well.
Loafers, no socks brigade no doubt. It’s been 30 years since I regularly drank in Peckham, and if the fecking hipsters are there it will be another 30 years (I wish).
I moved to Peckham in November. I’m right by the rye and rye lane. Not surprised to read of this and hope the lad is okay @Algarveaddick
I grew up down the road in Brockley and have known from an early age they’re are some proper c*** knockin about the area such as the two attackers
Growing up in and around the area doesn’t make what happened to the victim any less likely to happen to me, but you hopefully pick up to avoid conflict from an early age. Sounds like wrong place wrong time and unfortunately scum bags like this hunt in packs and given it might be in their neck of the woods they probably felt safe in numbers etc as they probably know a lot of people
In all my time living in this part of the world and that’s 36 years now, I’ve never felt unsafe. Hopefully will continue that way
Re: the mix of the area kentaddick has it right. Everywhere in London has become gentrified now because of the price of property. We haven’t quite got the loafers and no socks brigade, but we have got the top knots and mental alternative creative types of about 25 who probably grew up in the leafy parts of the U.K. and to me I do chuckle when I hear their accents in the pub
Yes unfortunately we have the yummy mummy brigade as well who in a million years won’t even fathom what it’s been like for some of the natives who have grown up in the rougher parts. Winds me up a tad to be fair. They wander round obliviously. My old landlords, the chap who worked for google and the woman was itv and have now moved from Brockley to the chilterns, actually called out a poncy Japanese restaurant on lordship Lane as being too gentrified and attracting yummy mummies etc. I couldn’t believe it. Pot kettle and all that
They talked to me about the wickham arms round the back of Brockley and said ‘oh what a traditional pub’
I thought, there’s no way you would’ve been seen dead in here 20 years back
Plenty of those types now moving down to Hastings Old Town and St Leonards.
I think it’s laughable that you think you can’t go out past 11 but hey ho.
Hope the culprits get caught.
would you venture out in Peckham at midnight?, as that's where the crime took place - i personally wouldn't but that shouldn't be the case.
I cannot believe Peckham or Brixton are as bad as they were in the early 80s - back then I ran a group of betting shops in those areas and used to drink regularly in what were considered no-go areas. I never felt unsafe, but I did know a lot of locals so perhaps that helped.
They’re not, they’re getting gentrified, Brixton especially. Peckham still has a bit of a weird divide, white yummy mummy types sitting in the cafes whilst Nigerian background working class people working in the market stalls etc and seem to exist independently from each other but in the same place. And hipsters as well.
Loafers, no socks brigade no doubt. It’s been 30 years since I regularly drank in Peckham, and if the fecking hipsters are there it will be another 30 years (I wish).
I moved to Peckham in November. I’m right by the rye and rye lane. Not surprised to read of this and hope the lad is okay @Algarveaddick
I grew up down the road in Brockley and have known from an early age they’re are some proper c*** knockin about the area such as the two attackers
Growing up in and around the area doesn’t make what happened to the victim any less likely to happen to me, but you hopefully pick up to avoid conflict from an early age. Sounds like wrong place wrong time and unfortunately scum bags like this hunt in packs and given it might be in their neck of the woods they probably felt safe in numbers etc as they probably know a lot of people
In all my time living in this part of the world and that’s 36 years now, I’ve never felt unsafe. Hopefully will continue that way
Re: the mix of the area kentaddick has it right. Everywhere in London has become gentrified now because of the price of property. We haven’t quite got the loafers and no socks brigade, but we have got the top knots and mental alternative creative types of about 25 who probably grew up in the leafy parts of the U.K. and to me I do chuckle when I hear their accents in the pub
Yes unfortunately we have the yummy mummy brigade as well who in a million years won’t even fathom what it’s been like for some of the natives who have grown up in the rougher parts. Winds me up a tad to be fair. They wander round obliviously. My old landlords, the chap who worked for google and the woman was itv and have now moved from Brockley to the chilterns, actually called out a poncy Japanese restaurant on lordship Lane as being too gentrified and attracting yummy mummies etc. I couldn’t believe it. Pot kettle and all that
They talked to me about the wickham arms round the back of Brockley and said ‘oh what a traditional pub’
I thought, there’s no way you would’ve been seen dead in here 20 years back
Peckham just seemed like 2 completely different worlds operating as if the other didn’t exist.
Ditto Brixton, Clapton, Walthamstow etc and now Woolwich.
Always found Brixton to be alright in that respect. I don’t think it will get *much* more gentrified to the extent shoreditch is now, which I think is what locals worried originally. Still got a good vibe along with the hipster pop ups and yummy mummy cafes in Brixton “village” and the markets on electric avenue all within a hundred metres of each other. Peckham was like “this end is working class black, this end is white middle class”, which I found uncomfortable. Couldn’t comment on the other areas as I don’t venture east too much.
Yeah I get what you mean there, Brixton has a lot going on maybe not as good as example as the others.
London has always had rough bits and always had crime - there's never been a golden age. It's a city and a mix of good and bad.
Lazy stereotyping about areas is usually done by those who haven't been there for about thirty years. You either like cities or you don't - if you only look for bad stuff I guarantee you can find it anywhere.
Never lived in South East London only ever lived in the South West, Putney, Roehampton, Wimbledon and Kingston.
I’ve had times in those areas when I have been chased and almost attacked. It’s something which you have accepted will happen living in a big city. Following on from your comment, pretty much everyone I know who have or currently lives in Sussex has been jumped at some point in their life.
After six years of living in London I completely hated it, but some people love it. You can never say never, but don’t think I would ever move back to London.
I think it’s laughable that you think you can’t go out past 11 but hey ho.
Hope the culprits get caught.
would you venture out in Peckham at midnight?, as that's where the crime took place - i personally wouldn't but that shouldn't be the case.
I cannot believe Peckham or Brixton are as bad as they were in the early 80s - back then I ran a group of betting shops in those areas and used to drink regularly in what were considered no-go areas. I never felt unsafe, but I did know a lot of locals so perhaps that helped.
They’re not, they’re getting gentrified, Brixton especially. Peckham still has a bit of a weird divide, white yummy mummy types sitting in the cafes whilst Nigerian background working class people working in the market stalls etc and seem to exist independently from each other but in the same place. And hipsters as well.
Loafers, no socks brigade no doubt. It’s been 30 years since I regularly drank in Peckham, and if the fecking hipsters are there it will be another 30 years (I wish).
I moved to Peckham in November. I’m right by the rye and rye lane. Not surprised to read of this and hope the lad is okay @Algarveaddick
I grew up down the road in Brockley and have known from an early age they’re are some proper c*** knockin about the area such as the two attackers
Growing up in and around the area doesn’t make what happened to the victim any less likely to happen to me, but you hopefully pick up to avoid conflict from an early age. Sounds like wrong place wrong time and unfortunately scum bags like this hunt in packs and given it might be in their neck of the woods they probably felt safe in numbers etc as they probably know a lot of people
In all my time living in this part of the world and that’s 36 years now, I’ve never felt unsafe. Hopefully will continue that way
Re: the mix of the area kentaddick has it right. Everywhere in London has become gentrified now because of the price of property. We haven’t quite got the loafers and no socks brigade, but we have got the top knots and mental alternative creative types of about 25 who probably grew up in the leafy parts of the U.K. and to me I do chuckle when I hear their accents in the pub
Yes unfortunately we have the yummy mummy brigade as well who in a million years won’t even fathom what it’s been like for some of the natives who have grown up in the rougher parts. Winds me up a tad to be fair. They wander round obliviously. My old landlords, the chap who worked for google and the woman was itv and have now moved from Brockley to the chilterns, actually called out a poncy Japanese restaurant on lordship Lane as being too gentrified and attracting yummy mummies etc. I couldn’t believe it. Pot kettle and all that
They talked to me about the wickham arms round the back of Brockley and said ‘oh what a traditional pub’
I thought, there’s no way you would’ve been seen dead in here 20 years back
Peckham just seemed like 2 completely different worlds operating as if the other didn’t exist.
Ditto Brixton, Clapton, Walthamstow etc and now Woolwich.
I wonder how much of this reflects our own prejudices - all are just working families trying to do the best for themselves and their kids,
Perhaps the flipside of this phenomenon is my observation that several areas of outer London (Zones 4/5/6) which used to be very safe leafy suburbs are now increasingly 'un-gentrifying' (in North London which I know best, I'd point to Barnet, Southgate, Enfield, Edgware etc.) as people who can afford to move out to towns/villages outside London (they're already halfway there after all).
Yeah - it is an interesting subject/phenomenon.
At the end of the day I fear the Zone one core will be a mass of expensive flats on every acre of space (plenty unlived in), offices, and the (no) choice on Pret, EAT, Starbucks and Costa on every corner. Bar the obvious tourist attractions and the arts stuff which hasn't been decimated (decent live music venues and the like).
People are just getting gradually pushed out, and this affects all the areas in different ways as you say.
Peckham is a shit pit. Always has been and always will be.
Born and raised there and have seen more dregs of society per square foot there than anywhere else I've visited (and, believe me, I've been to some proper hell holes).
Even I would think twice about venturing out there on a non match day and I know the place like the back of my hand and have plenty of family still there.
I hope the victim recovers with no ongoing issues or adverse effects to him.
Peckham is a shit pit. Always has been and always will be.
Born and raised there and have seen more dregs of society per square foot there than anywhere else I've visited (and, believe me, I've been to some proper hell holes).
Really surprised you've never been to the Den! :-)
One argument for gentrification is that raises the aspirations of people in the area and improves services. i.e. if you get a load of busy middle class types moving into historically socially deprived manors then it can improve the area, schools etc and over time raise living standards for all. Also gets people of different backgrounds mixing together etc and opens peoples' eyes to different mindsets and ways of life and extends opportunities.
London is a prime example of for that as you have sink estates next door to ridiculous wealth and everything in between.
Of course the counter argument is when it goes beyond gentrification and turns into complete relocation and displacement of locals as happened with residents of the Heygate at the elephant in recent years. Spent a few months on there myself with an ex who lived there many years ago and it will be unrecognisable round there when all the yuppie flats go up with the former residents having been displaced out to suburban south London, kent, Essex and even further afield.
Cities evolve and change over years. Many of the middle class types with complete lack of self awareness complaining about the influx of middle class and hipsters changing the demographic and feel of the area would be up in arms if others raised the same points about the changes seen through immigration and cultural change etc so there is a level of irony and hypocrisy there. By the same token as a suburban boy it makes me chuckle when people moving out of the inner city to the greater London suburbs bemoan those moving into their area and it changing completely oblivious to the fact they are now doing it themselves in places like Bromley and Bexley boroughs etc.
London is unrecognisable every 50 years and probably always has and always will be. Live and let live is a good philosophy and without getting too "I'd like to buy the world a home" I think the more you mix with different people the more it breaks down fear/ignorance/ suspicion of the unknown and you realise pretty much everyone whatever their class, race, religion etc primarily wants the same things out of life, prosperity, security, peace etc and of course the inevitable wrong uns amongst each section of society tend to blur that reality and keep us blinkered.
The real tragedies are these out of town estates up north in the middle of nowhere just cut off from everyone and everything and forgotten and ignored by society. As tough as it must be growing up in inner city London with all its inherent challenges and social problems at least you can see what is out there and around you and something to strive for. If you are on a purpose built estate outside of Middlesbrough with nothing around you that offers anything different or any vision or prospect of opportunity then it must be nigh on impossible to see beyond that.
London has always had rough bits and always had crime - there's never been a golden age. It's a city and a mix of good and bad.
Lazy stereotyping about areas is usually done by those who haven't been there for about thirty years. You either like cities or you don't - if you only look for bad stuff I guarantee you can find it anywhere.
Never lived in South East London only ever lived in the South West, Putney, Roehampton, Wimbledon and Kingston.
I’ve had times in those areas when I have been chased and almost attacked. It’s something which you have accepted will happen living in a big city. Following on from your comment, pretty much everyone I know who have or currently lives in Sussex has been jumped at some point in their life.
After six years of living in London I completely hated it, but some people love it. You can never say never, but don’t think I would ever move back to London.
I lived in SE London until I was nearly 30 before migrating to Kent, ironically because I couldn't afford SE London property prices given what I am about to say.
All my SE London residing family and friends have either moved away or died now so I only really return for Charlton games. I am always glad to get away from the area although The Valley, particularly pre match, does give me a sense of contentment and closeness to deceased relatives. If Charlton leave The Valley in the future that will be it for me and SE London assuming my body doesn't stop me attending matches first.
It may be a sign of age but the surrounding areas have changed, almost beyond recognition in some instances, and most of those changes appear to be for the worse to me.
Once again best wishes to your friend's son @Algarveaddick I hope progess has been made in apprehending the culprits.
London has always had rough bits and always had crime - there's never been a golden age. It's a city and a mix of good and bad.
Lazy stereotyping about areas is usually done by those who haven't been there for about thirty years. You either like cities or you don't - if you only look for bad stuff I guarantee you can find it anywhere.
Never lived in South East London only ever lived in the South West, Putney, Roehampton, Wimbledon and Kingston.
I’ve had times in those areas when I have been chased and almost attacked. It’s something which you have accepted will happen living in a big city. Following on from your comment, pretty much everyone I know who have or currently lives in Sussex has been jumped at some point in their life.
After six years of living in London I completely hated it, but some people love it. You can never say never, but don’t think I would ever move back to London.
I lived in SE London until I was nearly 30 before migrating to Kent, ironically because I couldn't afford SE London property prices given what I am about to say.
All my SE London residing family and friends have either moved away or died now so I only really return for Charlton games. I am always glad to get away from the area although The Valley, particularly pre match, does give me a sense of contentment and closeness to deceased relatives. If Charlton leave The Valley in the future that will be it for me and SE London assuming my body doesn't stop me attending matches first.
It may be a sign of age but the surrounding areas have changed, almost beyond recognition in some instances, and most of those changes appear to be for the worse to me.
Once again best wishes to your friend's son @Algarveaddick I hope progess has been made in apprehending the culprits.
We're not dissimilar, Len. I moved down to Kent in 1985 because we couldn't afford London prices (or rather we could get a lot more for our money in Kent). We lived there in the same village (actually moved and bought the house literally next door) until 2008 when we moved up to Cheshire.
I wouldn't want to move back to Woolwich/Charlton as I've seen the change. But I would still move back to London, perhaps Greenwich/Blackheath in south London and if money allowed more central than that. No rose tinted glasses on me - I know it's not the same but I miss it nonetheless.
Remember coming out the fridge at 6am and crossing the road to the station and an Islamic preacher was out in the street with his prayer matt, he looked me straight in the eye and hissed like a wild angry cat. Think it’s the most I’ve ever shit myself.
Could have been the really good drugs tho.
In the day when I lived in Kent, and I used to drive to games, had a mate who lived in Tulse Hill.
Hated driving through that place when I was dropping him off on a Saturday night. Even from within the relatively safety of my car, you could sense the atmosphere changing as soon as you came upon the place.
This was around the time of the Brixton riots though.
All of the gentrification projects in London is pushing the problem into suburban areas that never had issues
This is why I am moving from London and out into the country
I have had it , a proud London lad who absolutely adores the city hates living in it
Think long and hard nla. We did the dream move to the country cottage and it lasted just 5 years. My wife hated it and the novelty wore off for me when i had to bar a pikey from a club. All the problems are there. Just different. Any?s just ask.
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I’ve had times in those areas when I have been chased and almost attacked. It’s something which you have accepted will happen living in a big city. Following on from your comment, pretty much everyone I know who have or currently lives in Sussex has been jumped at some point in their life.
After six years of living in London I completely hated it, but some people love it. You can never say never, but don’t think I would ever move back to London.
Would I move from my green and pleasant village in Cheshire back to London? In a heart beat.
I do think cities are harder to live in as you get older as the noise and chaos isn't so attractìve and you tend to notice the anti-social aspects a lot more. Constant change is a part of city life and your appetite for it lessens with age but on the other hand some villages and towns can possibly be a bit dull.
The one thing I have found irritating over time is people telling me uninvited what a shitthole SE London is even though they know I live there and announcing they'd never live there - I've never really known what they expect as a reply. If I said something about where they live they would invariably take massive offence.
When people say where are you from I take pride in saying London, and then add 'the right side of the river!'.
Maybe I'm one of the rarities that miss the chaos of living in a big city - even at the ripe old age of 60. Not just any city, but the greatest city on earth, and I truly feel alive when I'm in London. Yes of course it's very nice where I live and I'm very lucky with what life has given me, and no I wouldn't want to go back and live on the Glyndon Estate again as I did growing up (although it was a good childhood) - but when I eventually retire I'll be coming back home.
I don't drive and do 4/5 bus trips a day through Woolwich and see incidents all the time. Racist abuse is common but the most surprising is women screaming and fighting over the buggy space!
At the end of the day I fear the Zone one core will be a mass of expensive flats on every acre of space (plenty unlived in), offices, and the (no) choice on Pret, EAT, Starbucks and Costa on every corner. Bar the obvious tourist attractions and the arts stuff which hasn't been decimated (decent live music venues and the like).
People are just getting gradually pushed out, and this affects all the areas in different ways as you say.
Born and raised there and have seen more dregs of society per square foot there than anywhere else I've visited (and, believe me, I've been to some proper hell holes).
Even I would think twice about venturing out there on a non match day and I know the place like the back of my hand and have plenty of family still there.
I hope the victim recovers with no ongoing issues or adverse effects to him.
Really surprised you've never been to the Den! :-)
One argument for gentrification is that raises the aspirations of people in the area and improves services. i.e. if you get a load of busy middle class types moving into historically socially deprived manors then it can improve the area, schools etc and over time raise living standards for all. Also gets people of different backgrounds mixing together etc and opens peoples' eyes to different mindsets and ways of life and extends opportunities.
London is a prime example of for that as you have sink estates next door to ridiculous wealth and everything in between.
Of course the counter argument is when it goes beyond gentrification and turns into complete relocation and displacement of locals as happened with residents of the Heygate at the elephant in recent years. Spent a few months on there myself with an ex who lived there many years ago and it will be unrecognisable round there when all the yuppie flats go up with the former residents having been displaced out to suburban south London, kent, Essex and even further afield.
Cities evolve and change over years. Many of the middle class types with complete lack of self awareness complaining about the influx of middle class and hipsters changing the demographic and feel of the area would be up in arms if others raised the same points about the changes seen through immigration and cultural change etc so there is a level of irony and hypocrisy there. By the same token as a suburban boy it makes me chuckle when people moving out of the inner city to the greater London suburbs bemoan those moving into their area and it changing completely oblivious to the fact they are now doing it themselves in places like Bromley and Bexley boroughs etc.
London is unrecognisable every 50 years and probably always has and always will be. Live and let live is a good philosophy and without getting too "I'd like to buy the world a home" I think the more you mix with different people the more it breaks down fear/ignorance/ suspicion of the unknown and you realise pretty much everyone whatever their class, race, religion etc primarily wants the same things out of life, prosperity, security, peace etc and of course the inevitable wrong uns amongst each section of society tend to blur that reality and keep us blinkered.
The real tragedies are these out of town estates up north in the middle of nowhere just cut off from everyone and everything and forgotten and ignored by society. As tough as it must be growing up in inner city London with all its inherent challenges and social problems at least you can see what is out there and around you and something to strive for. If you are on a purpose built estate outside of Middlesbrough with nothing around you that offers anything different or any vision or prospect of opportunity then it must be nigh on impossible to see beyond that.
Those lacking local knowledge may be suckered and the commission rolls in.
I lived in SE London until I was nearly 30 before migrating to Kent, ironically because I couldn't afford SE London property prices given what I am about to say.
All my SE London residing family and friends have either moved away or died now so I only really return for Charlton games. I am always glad to get away from the area although The Valley, particularly pre match, does give me a sense of contentment and closeness to deceased relatives. If Charlton leave The Valley in the future that will be it for me and SE London assuming my body doesn't stop me attending matches first.
It may be a sign of age but the surrounding areas have changed, almost beyond recognition in some instances, and most of those changes appear to be for the worse to me.
Once again best wishes to your friend's son @Algarveaddick I hope progess has been made in apprehending the culprits.
I wouldn't want to move back to Woolwich/Charlton as I've seen the change. But I would still move back to London, perhaps Greenwich/Blackheath in south London and if money allowed more central than that. No rose tinted glasses on me - I know it's not the same but I miss it nonetheless.
Hated driving through that place when I was dropping him off on a Saturday night. Even from within the relatively safety of my car, you could sense the atmosphere changing as soon as you came upon the place.
This was around the time of the Brixton riots though.
This is why I am moving from London and out into the country
I have had it , a proud London lad who absolutely adores the city hates living in it
My wife hated it and the novelty wore off for me when i had to bar a pikey from a club. All the problems are there. Just different.
Any?s just ask.
The countryside has its own set of problems which are obviously different from those in a city. Ultimately it's finding somewhere that you fit in.
The cost of property in London is currently a massive problem for which there is no simple solution. It's a hard place to live in without money.
I think there is an awful lot of money laundering that's helped drive property prices up - our governments have failed to address this.