Presumably at some stage someone said "I've had a brilliant idea. We need to increase capacity on our motorways and I've noticed that they've all got these extra lanes that nobody seems to be using. Instead of widening the motorways, let's just use them!". The first question at that stage would presumably have been "But what about if someone breaks down or if the emergency services need to get to the scene of an incident?". I'm genuinely curious what the answer to that question was that was so convincing that these bloody motorways got off the ground in the first place.
Presumably at some stage someone said "I've had a brilliant idea. We need to increase capacity on our motorways and I've noticed that they've all got these extra lanes that nobody seems to be using. Instead of widening the motorways, let's just use them!". The first question at that stage would presumably have been "But what about if someone breaks down or if the emergency services need to get to the scene of an incident?". I'm genuinely curious what the answer to that question was that was so convincing that these bloody motorways got off the ground in the first place.
The original plan, as shown to the Transport Minister at the time (confirmed on last night programme) was that there would be "safe areas" every 600 yards & that was what he signed off on. The wankers/idiots who then changed it to every couple of miles need to be hauled over the coals. Select committee or even a public enquiry.....find out the culprits & sack them.
The programme made frightening watching last night.
My personal view is that these are a shockingly bad idea. I also agree that driving habits need to change before things will get better.
I recently read that the largest cause of traffic on motorways and strategic A roads was phantom accidents which are caused by someone driving too close to the car infront and not leaving a safe distance. The first car breaks for something. The following car then has to break a lot harder to compensate for the lack of distance. And it basically can cause a tailback for miles.
On smart motorways. I believe the official line from the department for transport is that Casualty rates on Smart Motorways are largely the same as on non-smart motorways which given the higher volume of traffic is actually a good thing.
What this basic kind of thought process of appraisal misses is that more of the casualties which happen on smart motorways are avoidable casualties.
What annoys me about so called smart motorways is when they put the speed down to 50. Everyone slams on the anchors and then 300 yards later it's back up to 70. For no reason at all.
The speed limit is lowered when traffic bunches up too closely. If drivers kept their distance and not hang on the bumper of the vehicle in front, then the speed wouldn't drop. It helps with preventing the ripple effect (where you end up sitting in a queue for 30 minutes, only to find there was no obstruction). This is actually one of the only things I'm in favour of. The lack of a hard shoulder is total madness..........
I said earlier in the thread (several months ago) that driving a safe distance from the next vehicle and in the correct lane are the best ways to improve road travel in this country.
Presumably at some stage someone said "I've had a brilliant idea. We need to increase capacity on our motorways and I've noticed that they've all got these extra lanes that nobody seems to be using. Instead of widening the motorways, let's just use them!". The first question at that stage would presumably have been "But what about if someone breaks down or if the emergency services need to get to the scene of an incident?". I'm genuinely curious what the answer to that question was that was so convincing that these bloody motorways got off the ground in the first place.
The original plan, as shown to the Transport Minister at the time (confirmed on last night programme) was that there would be "safe areas" every 600 yards & that was what he signed off on. The wankers/idiots who then changed it to every couple of miles need to be hauled over the coals. Select committee or even a public enquiry.....find out the culprits & sack them.
The programme made frightening watching last night.
Yes, and they also said that there would be a radar system to detect broken down cars. This has been introduced on two sections of the M25... and that's it. Everywhere else they rely on cameras, and they said that it takes something like 17 minutes on average for the control centre to realise that someone has broken down.
It might have seemed like a clever idea, but the implementation has been disgraceful.
The trouble is that when you leave a safe reaction time distance to the car in front, some twat will cut in front to try and nick one car length. Biggest problem we have is an ever increasing standard of poor and inept driving. Never underestimate the incompetence and stupidity of other road users.
The trouble is that when you leave a safe reaction time distance to the car in front, some twat will cut in front to try and nick one car length. Biggest problem we have is an ever increasing standard of poor and inept driving. Never underestimate the incompetence and stupidity of other road users.
Not just the drivers but the instructors too
I wasnt allowed out of any side roads until I was comfortable driving the vehicle I was learning in... These days you get stuck behind some cases which just scare me if they were to pass their test the next day - Of course always remain patient behind them, instead just question what they're being taught in the first place
The trouble is that when you leave a safe reaction time distance to the car in front, some twat will cut in front to try and nick one car length. Biggest problem we have is an ever increasing standard of poor and inept driving. Never underestimate the incompetence and stupidity of other road users.
Not just the drivers but the instructors too
I wasnt allowed out of any side roads until I was comfortable driving the vehicle I was learning in... These days you get stuck behind some cases which just scare me if they were to pass their test the next day - Of course always remain patient behind them, instead just question what they're being taught in the first place
Fair point. I was taken on a 50mph road on my first lesson and I'd barely driven anything before (Small van on a familys private land when helping with some works...)
These have been working fine on the M42 east of Birmingham - a very busy stretch of road - for well over a decade now. I used to drive that stretch of road probably 15 times a month and never saw any problems caused by the lack of hard shoulder, but it definitely helped ease congestion.
Cars are so much more reliable these days - how often do you actually see someone stranded on the hard shoulder? And is it more likely than on a 2 lane A-Road where the speed limit could be 60 mph but visibility for following traffic will be much worse, and there will be no option to go around?
Just because you haven't seen a problem, doesn't mean that they don't exist.
The M42 has ERAs every 600m or whatever was the ideal for 'Smart motorways'.
As someone who has broken down on the M42, I can assure you that the idea is utterly moronic. I pushed my bike to the side but couldn't get to the ERA. I jumped over the barrier and made a call to the number on the gantry. Immediately, lane 1 was closed and the traffic avoided the lane. I still stayed behind the barrier despite the bike being just 3 yards past the ERA.
Good job I did, cos a short time later I saw @ForeverAddickted happily zooming past me in the closed off lane followed by the rest of the world and his bleeding dog.
Seriously, it was a genuinely frightening experience where motorists ignored the closed lane sign. No wonder people are dying on these moron designed roads.
Firstly, costs cut to change the design so that refuge bays were put in too far apart;
Secondly, the absolute fucking arseholes who tool up lanes with a big red x on them and then smash in front of you 15 metres from the accident/breakdown. Should be an instant 12 month ban and then an extended retest - which brings me onto the third problem;
More costs saved by not putting in the radar that actually makes them 'smart' motorways. If the radar was installed correctly, we'd be able instantly identify and issue fines & driving bans to the wankcrumpets who abuse them
The hard shoulder on a busy motorway is a horrifyingly dangerous place to be anyway. I had a blow out on the M11 a couple of years ago (completely different experience from a blow job BTW) and managed to get to the hard shoulder from the outside lane in quite heavy traffic unscathed. My arsehole was still twitching from the experience, but once standing at the passenger side of the car, the smell of burnt tyre and HGV's thudering past in the first lane at 70-80mph, my anxiety levels rose proportionately... Horrible experience.
Whoever is accountable for even considering taking away that option though, should be publicly held accountable, hung upside down from a jibbet and shot.
The M20 'smart' motorway works on the M20 have been a nightmare for everyone in the area for the last 2 years. Whenever there is an accident or breakdown, which is an almost daily occurrence, the whole of Maidstone jams up and has a knock on effect on the M2 as well.
I don't think it will be any better when the work is finished in March. As soon as there is a breakdown or accident, lane one will be closed and all traffic will have to move to the next lane creating congestion. With a hard shoulder this wouldn't happen as the vehicle/s could pull off the main carriageway and wouldn't cause any disruption to the flow of traffic.
I dread breaking down on the M20 'smart' section, as in many places you would have to leave your car in lane 1 and stand between the crash barrier and a brick lined embankment. The alternative is to remain in your car, as was suggested in the programme last night. Neither is a very pleasant prospect.
Thanks for linking that. Didn't realise that only 2 sections of these motorways are covered by radar with the rest relying on CCTV operators noticing a stationary vehicle - taking them, on average, 17 minutes to see it!
Having sections of 'smart' motorway anywhere that occupants can't 'safely' evacuate via the passenger side of the vehicle (like that elevated part of the M6 I think it was) sounds like an instant recipe for disaster - as was shown.
Britain, one of the most arsehole ridden places to drive in, decides to effectively rely on the "intelligence" of the general public and technology to not kill each other.
That in itself is complete madness.
It has to stop, now.
What a tragic waste of life, and would be preventable if people added a couple of minutes to their journey.
That panorama programme is actually quite important viewing for anyone that drives.
Apart from maybe the odd speed awareness course, most drivers will never have any formal training about the dangers of these ‘smart’ sections. I’ve had a fair bit of transport industry training over the years and I still learnt some potentially lifesaving tips. Well worth watching.
The M20 'smart' motorway works on the M20 have been a nightmare for everyone in the area for the last 2 years. Whenever there is an accident or breakdown, which is an almost daily occurrence, the whole of Maidstone jams up and has a knock on effect on the M2 as well.
I don't think it will be any better when the work is finished in March. As soon as there is a breakdown or accident, lane one will be closed and all traffic will have to move to the next lane creating congestion. With a hard shoulder this wouldn't happen as the vehicle/s could pull off the main carriageway and wouldn't cause any disruption to the flow of traffic.
I dread breaking down on the M20 'smart' section, as in many places you would have to leave your car in lane 1 and stand between the crash barrier and a brick lined embankment. The alternative is to remain in your car, as was suggested in the programme last night. Neither is a very pleasant prospect.
Get ready for more misery when they decide that they're not such a great idea after all and we have to suffer as many more years of disruption while they change it back to the way it was....
Nearly every day a van breaks down between junction 3 of the m3 and the m25...long tailbacks ensue. They are only as good as the people watching the motorways... One of the biggest problems is people drive too fast and too close to the car in front... Which doesn't help.
They should focus development of 'self driving autonomous' technology on motorways and make it compulsory to use that mode on motorways. Everything travelling at exactly the same optimum speed with no overtaking would be much safer and probably double the capacity?
They should focus development of 'self driving autonomous' technology on motorways and make it compulsory to use that mode on motorways. Everything travelling at exactly the same optimum speed with no overtaking would be much safer and probably double the capacity?
Great idea, I can get pissed up as we head to matches. Save loads on spending in the boozer.
I absolutely agree that autonomous vehicles should be the focus. My issue is that all the thinking around these seems to be on how do we fit then into our current road system. I don't think that will ever produce an effective solution. For me there needs to be something completely out of the box to solve the problem. Transport doesnt exist how do we get people around? Otherwise we end up with a continuous spiral of short term sticking plaster solutions which aren't future-population-growth-proof
Educate drivers...to slow down, keep a safe distance and spend less time looking at their phones whilst driving...The amount of times lorries and car drivers get up my arse instead of keeping the "two chevron" distance when I am doing the legal speed limit or adjusting my speed to the conditions is frightening.
Comments
They failed to take into account.
1) Weather conditions
2) Road conditions
3) Poor standards of driving.
Absolutely shocking.
The programme made frightening watching last night.
I recently read that the largest cause of traffic on motorways and strategic A roads was phantom accidents which are caused by someone driving too close to the car infront and not leaving a safe distance. The first car breaks for something. The following car then has to break a lot harder to compensate for the lack of distance. And it basically can cause a tailback for miles.
On smart motorways. I believe the official line from the department for transport is that Casualty rates on Smart Motorways are largely the same as on non-smart motorways which given the higher volume of traffic is actually a good thing.
What this basic kind of thought process of appraisal misses is that more of the casualties which happen on smart motorways are avoidable casualties.
The speed limit is lowered when traffic bunches up too closely. If drivers kept their distance and not hang on the bumper of the vehicle in front, then the speed wouldn't drop. It helps with preventing the ripple effect (where you end up sitting in a queue for 30 minutes, only to find there was no obstruction). This is actually one of the only things I'm in favour of. The lack of a hard shoulder is total madness..........
That and banning anyone who drives an Audi...
Yet we spend thousands or even millions and cause untold traffic disruption for years creating them.
Absolute insanity.
It might have seemed like a clever idea, but the implementation has been disgraceful.
Biggest problem we have is an ever increasing standard of poor and inept driving.
Never underestimate the incompetence and stupidity of other road users.
I wasnt allowed out of any side roads until I was comfortable driving the vehicle I was learning in... These days you get stuck behind some cases which just scare me if they were to pass their test the next day - Of course always remain patient behind them, instead just question what they're being taught in the first place
The M42 has ERAs every 600m or whatever was the ideal for 'Smart motorways'.
As someone who has broken down on the M42, I can assure you that the idea is utterly moronic. I pushed my bike to the side but couldn't get to the ERA. I jumped over the barrier and made a call to the number on the gantry. Immediately, lane 1 was closed and the traffic avoided the lane. I still stayed behind the barrier despite the bike being just 3 yards past the ERA.
Good job I did, cos a short time later I saw @ForeverAddickted happily zooming past me in the closed off lane followed by the rest of the world and his bleeding dog.
Seriously, it was a genuinely frightening experience where motorists ignored the closed lane sign. No wonder people are dying on these moron designed roads.
Firstly, costs cut to change the design so that refuge bays were put in too far apart;
Secondly, the absolute fucking arseholes who tool up lanes with a big red x on them and then smash in front of you 15 metres from the accident/breakdown. Should be an instant 12 month ban and then an extended retest - which brings me onto the third problem;
More costs saved by not putting in the radar that actually makes them 'smart' motorways. If the radar was installed correctly, we'd be able instantly identify and issue fines & driving bans to the wankcrumpets who abuse them
Whoever is accountable for even considering taking away that option though, should be publicly held accountable, hung upside down from a jibbet and shot.
I don't think it will be any better when the work is finished in March. As soon as there is a breakdown or accident, lane one will be closed and all traffic will have to move to the next lane creating congestion. With a hard shoulder this wouldn't happen as the vehicle/s could pull off the main carriageway and wouldn't cause any disruption to the flow of traffic.
I dread breaking down on the M20 'smart' section, as in many places you would have to leave your car in lane 1 and stand between the crash barrier and a brick lined embankment. The alternative is to remain in your car, as was suggested in the programme last night. Neither is a very pleasant prospect.
That in itself is complete madness.
It has to stop, now.
What a tragic waste of life, and would be preventable if people added a couple of minutes to their journey.
That panorama programme is actually quite important viewing for anyone that drives.
Apart from maybe the odd speed awareness course, most drivers will never have any formal training about the dangers of these ‘smart’ sections. I’ve had a fair bit of transport industry training over the years and I still learnt some potentially lifesaving tips. Well worth watching.
Now how do I automate my 40yr old motorbike?