£100 max bet with £500 max payout is absolutely scandalous.
Wonder if they'll be dropping the max payout to £10 now the max bet is £2....
it depends on odds the roulette for example is
£100 max bet on red which is an evens return
from memory the maximum bet on a single number is £13.75 which returns £495.00
the way they have worded it does make it sound a lot worse than it is.
they do have slot machines in them aswell which are £1 a spin for £500 jackpot
the good thing with lowering the stakes is a lot of gambling addicts will stop as they only play these machines and don't punt on things, used to pop in the bookies after work friday and do a few footy accys for the coming weekend a few years back i had a tip for ascot louis the pious @ 33/1 backed it in the bookies so hung around to watch the race there was a guy playing this machine for around 10 mins and he went from having £6850.00 in the machine to fuck all in 15 mins.
worked with a guy that i didn't know had a bit of an issue, after xmas drink up at a local pub he offered me a lift home was freezing so i thought fuck it why not, we had been paid £1100 each in cash as scrap money (xmas bonus), on the drive home from fulham to bexley he made us stop at about 6 bookies on the drive home he had lost the lot.
It’s obviously a good move but I can’t see how it’s going to help people with addictions. If people are determined to lose their money in these machines, then they’ll just lose it more slowly.
You can't see how it's going to help ?????? Yet you then say, they'll lose money more slowly. I think you can see it.
Coral have said that it will have a £120m affect on earnings. So that, presumably, will be £120m that people with an addiction to machines that they can't beat won't be losing?
And yes an addict may find other ways to lose it but there were more than 230,000 occasions last year when players lost more than £1,000 in a session it really does beggar belief. That's someone nipping into their bookies at lunchtime and having 10 spins in three or four minutes and losing a grand - no wonder Coral made so much profit.
They will just have to go back to doing what they are meant to be doing - bookmaking.
Spot on.
I go to the bookies most lunchtimes, just to read the paper and have a bite to eat. Each time I see people who look like they haven't got a pot to piss in, spunking large sums and often getting visibly distressed. It's too easy.
Zero sympathy for the bookies - they should be grateful they've got away with it for as long as they have.
£100 max bet with £500 max payout is absolutely scandalous.
Wonder if they'll be dropping the max payout to £10 now the max bet is £2....
You can win more than that, but still it's not worth it and the name of the game is in the title, fixed odds betting terminals. I've told in excess of 500 people this and they still put too much in and end up punching the machine up or spitting on it.
As someone who has worked in a bookies for something like 3 years and seen the way it makes people act etc I am delighted they are enforcing this. Every incident I've ever seen has been because of a machine, all incidents of violence I've seen have been because of the machines (customers fighting and smashing the shop up) and every threat I've ever received is because of someone losing money on a machine.
I guess it's sad that it will result in job loss for some people but it's a price worth paying if it means less people's lives are ruined. Good job to those that fought for it
Coral have said that it will have a £120m affect on earnings. So that, presumably, will be £120m that people with an addiction to machines that they can't beat won't be losing?
And yes an addict may find other ways to lose it but there were more than 230,000 occasions last year when players lost more than £1,000 in a session it really does beggar belief. That's someone nipping into their bookies at lunchtime and having 10 spins in three or four minutes and losing a grand - no wonder Coral made so much profit.
They will just have to go back to doing what they are meant to be doing - bookmaking.
Spot on.
I go to the bookies most lunchtimes, just to read the paper and have a bite to eat. Each time I see people who look like they haven't got a pot to piss in, spunking large sums and often getting visibly distressed. It's too easy.
Zero sympathy for the bookies - they should be grateful they've got away with it for as long as they have.
It might surprise some of you to hear me say that I am in total agreement with this change. FOBTs are evil bastard robots that suck money from those least able to control their behaviour or deal with the losses that inevitably happen.
I'm also old school and betting offices are supposed to be turf accountants - I've never seen a blade of grass on a FOBT. They were never meant to be amusement arcades!
That said, I don't share (sadly) the optimism of some who believe betting shops will once again become home to horse race punters. Back in the day (too many f*cking years ago) when I first entered the industry 75% of shop turnover was horse racing, c20% greyhounds and the other 5% made up of football and other sports/events. That horse (pardon the pun) has long since bolted and the vast majority of horse race betting turnover is online - either exchange or traditional. Even then it accounts for a relatively tiny proportion of all betting - football accounts for 60% plus with tennis and basketball at two and three.
I knocked around in bookies more than I should have when I was younger. I'm sure I would have got into far bigger trouble if these machines had been available back then (relatively low stake fruit machines were bad enough!). My only contact with bookies these days is when I glance through the window as I pass by, the people inside never fail to depress me.
Poor @mid_life_crisis - He's only popped in there to eat his lunch - don't be so judgemental
It might surprise some of you to hear me say that I am in total agreement with this change. FOBTs are evil bastard robots that suck money from those least able to control their behaviour or deal with the losses that inevitably happen.
I'm also old school and betting offices are supposed to be turf accountants - I've never seen a blade of grass on a FOBT. They were never meant to be amusement arcades!
That said, I don't share (sadly) the optimism of some who believe betting shops will once again become home to horse race punters. Back in the day (too many f*cking years ago) when I first entered the industry 75% of shop turnover was horse racing, c20% greyhounds and the other 5% made up of football and other sports/events. That horse (pardon the pun) has long since bolted and the vast majority of horse race betting turnover is online - either exchange or traditional. Even then it accounts for a relatively tiny proportion of all betting - football accounts for 60% plus with tennis and basketball at two and three.
Basketball is an odd one. Didn't realise it was that big for betting. I figured football, horse racing, tennis and golf...
It might surprise some of you to hear me say that I am in total agreement with this change. FOBTs are evil bastard robots that suck money from those least able to control their behaviour or deal with the losses that inevitably happen.
I'm also old school and betting offices are supposed to be turf accountants - I've never seen a blade of grass on a FOBT. They were never meant to be amusement arcades!
That said, I don't share (sadly) the optimism of some who believe betting shops will once again become home to horse race punters. Back in the day (too many f*cking years ago) when I first entered the industry 75% of shop turnover was horse racing, c20% greyhounds and the other 5% made up of football and other sports/events. That horse (pardon the pun) has long since bolted and the vast majority of horse race betting turnover is online - either exchange or traditional. Even then it accounts for a relatively tiny proportion of all betting - football accounts for 60% plus with tennis and basketball at two and three.
Basketball is an odd one. Didn't realise it was that big for betting. I figured football, horse racing, tennis and golf...
Our business is global, don't forget. Apart from NBA and College BB, it's very big in Europe.
It’s obviously a good move but I can’t see how it’s going to help people with addictions. If people are determined to lose their money in these machines, then they’ll just lose it more slowly.
You can't see how it's going to help ?????? Yet you then say, they'll lose money more slowly. I think you can see it.
Maybe you misunderstood me. In my experience, people with problems don’t stay for an amount of time, they stay until an amount of money has gone. So if they’ve got £100 they’re determined to lose, they will just lose that over an hour, instead of in a few seconds. IMO of course.
Got so many views on this. So im allowed to smoke myself to death and up to 12 years ago smoke other people to death but cant have a 10 pound bet on the machines. If i walk into a bookies and am hell bent on doing £200 its just going to take me longer to do. For decades maybe centuries before these machines, tens of thousands of people up and down the country have been doing thier bollocks gambling. One of the things it does do is stop people chasing thier money also though whats to stop gamblers losing £50 then start putting £50 on the horses or dogs. For me gambling is the biggest buzz you can get whether down or up. Will always have a £20 football bet whether i can afford it or not. And as said before if people were only betting what they can afford there would be hardly any bookies about. The bookies might not want you to do your bollocks but they certainly dont want you doing only what you can afford
Got so many views on this. So im allowed to smoke myself to death and up to 12 years ago smoke other people to death but cant have a 10 pound bet on the machines. If i walk into a bookies and am hell bent on doing £200 its just going to take me longer to do. For decades maybe centuries before these machines, tens of thousands of people up and down the country have been doing thier bollocks gambling. One of the things it does do is stop people chasing thier money also though whats to stop gamblers losing £50 then start putting £50 on the horses or dogs. For me gambling is the biggest buzz you can get whether down or up. Will always have a £20 football bet whether i can afford it or not. And as said before if people were only betting what they can afford there would be hardly any bookies about. The bookies might not want you to do your bollocks but they certainly dont want you doing only what you can afford
If you imagine that is what people are thinking, then I think you are a long way from understanding the issue. Nobody is 'hell-bent on doing £200'. People place bets to win, not to lose. It is chasing the losses that causes a significant minority to 'do £200'. This is urge particularly strong with machines because people know that over time there is a 70% payout. Once they've put their money in they know that most of it will be paid out at some point. They want what they see is theirs to go to them, not to the next person who wheels in off the street. Consequently there's a compulsion to keep putting more in, because it might just be the next turn that pays out. And when it doesn't, it makes the next go even more likely to pay out (in their eyes). The psychology isn't the same as strong, with non-mechanical gambling because there is no percentage pay out. If you lose your money on a nag, there's no reason to think that the next one will will do any better.
Got so many views on this. So im allowed to smoke myself to death and up to 12 years ago smoke other people to death but cant have a 10 pound bet on the machines. If i walk into a bookies and am hell bent on doing £200 its just going to take me longer to do. For decades maybe centuries before these machines, tens of thousands of people up and down the country have been doing thier bollocks gambling. One of the things it does do is stop people chasing thier money also though whats to stop gamblers losing £50 then start putting £50 on the horses or dogs. For me gambling is the biggest buzz you can get whether down or up. Will always have a £20 football bet whether i can afford it or not. And as said before if people were only betting what they can afford there would be hardly any bookies about. The bookies might not want you to do your bollocks but they certainly dont want you doing only what you can afford
If you imagine that is what people are thinking, then I think you are a long way from understanding the issue. Nobody is 'hell-bent on doing £200'. People place bets to win, not to lose. It is chasing the losses that causes a significant minority to 'do £200'. This is urge particularly strong with machines because people know that over time there is a 70% payout. Once they've put their money in they know that most of it will be paid out at some point. They want what they see is theirs to go to them, not to the next person who wheels in off the street. Consequently there's a compulsion to keep putting more in, because it might just be the next turn that pays out. And when it doesn't, it makes the next go even more likely to pay out (in their eyes). The psychology isn't the same as strong, with non-mechanical gambling because there is no percentage pay out. If you loose your money on a nag, there's no reason to think that the next one will will do any better.
Adding to the above - punters like to think they have exhibited some skill when placing a horse bet, and the felling of success is enhanced. Whereas, just pushing a button at the right moment in the day is as skill-less as gambling gets.
Got so many views on this. So im allowed to smoke myself to death and up to 12 years ago smoke other people to death but cant have a 10 pound bet on the machines. If i walk into a bookies and am hell bent on doing £200 its just going to take me longer to do. For decades maybe centuries before these machines, tens of thousands of people up and down the country have been doing thier bollocks gambling. One of the things it does do is stop people chasing thier money also though whats to stop gamblers losing £50 then start putting £50 on the horses or dogs. For me gambling is the biggest buzz you can get whether down or up. Will always have a £20 football bet whether i can afford it or not. And as said before if people were only betting what they can afford there would be hardly any bookies about. The bookies might not want you to do your bollocks but they certainly dont want you doing only what you can afford
If you imagine that is what people are thinking, then I think you are a long way from understanding the issue. Nobody is 'hell-bent on doing £200'. People place bets to win, not to lose. It is chasing the losses that causes a significant minority to 'do £200'. This is urge particularly strong with machines because people know that over time there is a 70% payout. Once they've put their money in they know that most of it will be paid out at some point. They want what they see is theirs to go to them, not to the next person who wheels in off the street. Consequently there's a compulsion to keep putting more in, because it might just be the next turn that pays out. And when it doesn't, it makes the next go even more likely to pay out (in their eyes). The psychology isn't the same as strong, with non-mechanical gambling because there is no percentage pay out. If you loose your money on a nag, there's no reason to think that the next one will will do any better.
Not strictly true. FOBT Roulette for example pays out just over 97% - this is what you would expect from what is (by law and is regulated) a random number generator - the payout level is not pre-set. What has gone before has no relevance of what will happen in the future - disproving statistically the gambler's fallacy that they will eventually hit a winner.
The issue is with constant play and makes irrelevant the 97% payout. I have £100 worth of bets and at the end have £97 left (on average) - I then have £97 worth of bets and will on average have £94 left - and so on - eventually losing it all.
As a disgraceful shit former gambler anything that takes money away from these mingey bookies is a good thing. I was a shit gambler betting reasonably big money but could never get a bet on with a bookie , I’d always look for best price and most bookies ended up restricting me . Bet £3.65 I had 5 bets all around £1,000 ish over a few months 4 lost, 5th one won, messi to score at 8/11 , next day or so tried to back rooney for around a grand and was restricted to £9 , clowns I rang up and went through my betting transactions and was told something along the lines of we didn’t like your style of betting , wtf I’m a loser !!
None of them want to lay a bet , although they’ll happily lay you whatever at evens when it’s 11/10 on betfair!
In the end betfair swallowed me up and I had counselling and haven’t had a sports bet of note since 1st Jan 2013 when I was laying Charlton to win at Watford, Jacko last minute winner !
Glad to get that off my chest again and breeeeeathe
So a Government Minister has done an honourable thing and quit her job over the Government's recalcitrance to bring in its own suggested limit. Well done to Tracey Crouch for making a stand. Let's see if Mims Davies has the same view as her predecessor.
Got so many views on this. So im allowed to smoke myself to death and up to 12 years ago smoke other people to death but cant have a 10 pound bet on the machines. If i walk into a bookies and am hell bent on doing £200 its just going to take me longer to do. For decades maybe centuries before these machines, tens of thousands of people up and down the country have been doing thier bollocks gambling. One of the things it does do is stop people chasing thier money also though whats to stop gamblers losing £50 then start putting £50 on the horses or dogs. For me gambling is the biggest buzz you can get whether down or up. Will always have a £20 football bet whether i can afford it or not. And as said before if people were only betting what they can afford there would be hardly any bookies about. The bookies might not want you to do your bollocks but they certainly dont want you doing only what you can afford
If you imagine that is what people are thinking, then I think you are a long way from understanding the issue. Nobody is 'hell-bent on doing £200'. People place bets to win, not to lose. It is chasing the losses that causes a significant minority to 'do £200'. This is urge particularly strong with machines because people know that over time there is a 70% payout. Once they've put their money in they know that most of it will be paid out at some point. They want what they see is theirs to go to them, not to the next person who wheels in off the street. Consequently there's a compulsion to keep putting more in, because it might just be the next turn that pays out. And when it doesn't, it makes the next go even more likely to pay out (in their eyes). The psychology isn't the same as strong, with non-mechanical gambling because there is no percentage pay out. If you lose your money on a nag, there's no reason to think that the next one will will do any better.
Just seen this stig. Don't tell me stig I've been there done it. Drawing £300 Out to run down the club to get on the fruity. Bag of ones I'd ask ,£20 worth. 1st pound goes in its like heaven. 7/10 of course I'm going to do the lot.
I think a lot of bookies have opened shops close to each other just to overcome limits to numbers of these machines so it is inevitable jobs will be lost as I am assuming some of these will no longer be cost effective. I think that is a rubbish argument though - it is a good move by the government and people can find other jobs.
So a Government Minister has done an honourable thing and quit her job over the Government's recalcitrance to bring in its own suggested limit. Well done to Tracey Crouch for making a stand. Let's see if Mims Davies has the same view as her predecessor.
Not until something is done about the influence of Philip Davies the ‘Bookies MP’ who seems to be pulling all the strings in this respect. Vile little shit of a man.
I was down 5 figures easy on these when I was punting heavy from about 18-22. I've played for much higher stakes than 100 quid a spin in Vegas etc, but something different about these machines I just couldn't accept losing on them . Haven't been on one for years but I know as soon as I do I'd be balls deep 5 minutes later. Hope they actually lower it to £2 max a time but I really really can't see it happening. Will never go that low I'm sure of it.
Funny this thread pops up, I’ve spent the evening in the pub and there’s been a bloke at one of these “new style” fruit machines that have roulette, slots etc included and has easily spunked £100 on it. He has has 2 pints maximum in this time.
Gambling is something I’ve never really understood, with drinking there’s a guaranteed “buzz”. Gambling to me seems to have no reward.
Funny this thread pops up, I’ve spent the evening in the pub and there’s been a bloke at one of these “new style” fruit machines that have roulette, slots etc included and has easily spunked £100 on it. He has has 2 pints maximum in this time.
Gambling is something I’ve never really understood, with drinking there’s a guaranteed “buzz”. Gambling to me seems to have no reward.
The reward is getting a lot more than you had previously, I've not had the feeling much as I'm an atrocious gambler however the feeling of a win when when you clean out the fruit machine at the pool club from a 2 quid investment is a buzz I understand
Chasing losses on fruit machines is bad though and the reason I steer clear of them nowadays
The tories are yet again on the verge of doing something truly reprehensible for craven cynical ends. The only element lobbying against the promised legislation is the vultures who profit directly from the machines. Weasel words like: "the gambling addicted will always find ways to piss away all their money and more besides" come from black hearted racketeers, getting fat on the misery FOBT's cause. In the worst cases it will take the poor diseased souls 50 times longer to ruin themselves financially at £2 max stakes. If the sheer amount of time that takes causes one sap to moderate their behaviour, the change is worthwhile. Nobody with 2 grey cells to rub together plays a fruit machine with a genuine expectation of a return. FFS they have the "payout rate" printed on the front. A complete chump with a pocketful of cash can easily lose it betting on horses, dogs, whatever but there always remains a chance of a win and that chance is not influenced by the bet-taker (not legally anyway). FOBT's guarantee that all the mug punter's money will end up inside the terminal. Facilitating that at £100 stakes rather than £2 stakes is despicably unjustifiable.
I used to be bad with fruities in so far as they "supplemented my income" to an extent. Me and a couple of friends would often do quite well and it was a buzz - seeing as we were working in London and on the sauce most evenings
In truth I didn't have a pot to piss in so anything I won was swallowed by the debts of a losing night....but you don't remember them so they get blocked out of your mind.
Nowadays I rarely go to the pub so it's not an issue - but there are times when I am in a pub and stick £10 or £20 in a machine but rarely do I come out on top any more. The more modern problem is iPhone games.....I got immersed in one of those and spanked £500 about a year ago. Wouldn't have been a problem except for the fact my iTunes account has my wife's credit card attached. #schoolboyerror
Comments
£100 max bet on red which is an evens return
from memory the maximum bet on a single number is £13.75 which returns £495.00
the way they have worded it does make it sound a lot worse than it is.
they do have slot machines in them aswell which are £1 a spin for £500 jackpot
the good thing with lowering the stakes is a lot of gambling addicts will stop as they only play these machines and don't punt on things, used to pop in the bookies after work friday and do a few footy accys for the coming weekend a few years back i had a tip for ascot louis the pious @ 33/1 backed it in the bookies so hung around to watch the race there was a guy playing this machine for around 10 mins and he went from having £6850.00 in the machine to fuck all in 15 mins.
worked with a guy that i didn't know had a bit of an issue, after xmas drink up at a local pub he offered me a lift home was freezing so i thought fuck it why not, we had been paid £1100 each in cash as scrap money (xmas bonus), on the drive home from fulham to bexley he made us stop at about 6 bookies on the drive home he had lost the lot.
Yet you then say, they'll lose money more slowly.
I think you can see it.
I go to the bookies most lunchtimes, just to read the paper and have a bite to eat.
Each time I see people who look like they haven't got a pot to piss in, spunking large sums and often getting visibly distressed. It's too easy.
Zero sympathy for the bookies - they should be grateful they've got away with it for as long as they have.
As someone who has worked in a bookies for something like 3 years and seen the way it makes people act etc I am delighted they are enforcing this. Every incident I've ever seen has been because of a machine, all incidents of violence I've seen have been because of the machines (customers fighting and smashing the shop up) and every threat I've ever received is because of someone losing money on a machine.
I guess it's sad that it will result in job loss for some people but it's a price worth paying if it means less people's lives are ruined. Good job to those that fought for it
I'm also old school and betting offices are supposed to be turf accountants - I've never seen a blade of grass on a FOBT. They were never meant to be amusement arcades!
That said, I don't share (sadly) the optimism of some who believe betting shops will once again become home to horse race punters. Back in the day (too many f*cking years ago) when I first entered the industry 75% of shop turnover was horse racing, c20% greyhounds and the other 5% made up of football and other sports/events. That horse (pardon the pun) has long since bolted and the vast majority of horse race betting turnover is online - either exchange or traditional. Even then it accounts for a relatively tiny proportion of all betting - football accounts for 60% plus with tennis and basketball at two and three.
So im allowed to smoke myself to death and up to 12 years ago smoke other people to death but cant have a 10 pound bet on the machines.
If i walk into a bookies and am hell bent on doing £200 its just going to take me longer to do.
For decades maybe centuries before these machines, tens of thousands of people up and down the country have been doing thier bollocks gambling.
One of the things it does do is stop people chasing thier money also though whats to stop gamblers losing £50 then start putting £50 on the horses or dogs.
For me gambling is the biggest buzz you can get whether down or up.
Will always have a £20 football bet whether i can afford it or not.
And as said before if people were only betting what they can afford there would be hardly any bookies about.
The bookies might not want you to do your bollocks but they certainly dont want you doing only what you can afford
Whereas, just pushing a button at the right moment in the day is as skill-less as gambling gets.
The issue is with constant play and makes irrelevant the 97% payout. I have £100 worth of bets and at the end have £97 left (on average) - I then have £97 worth of bets and will on average have £94 left - and so on - eventually losing it all.
I was a shit gambler betting reasonably big money but could never get a bet on with a bookie , I’d always look for best price and most bookies ended up restricting me .
Bet £3.65 I had 5 bets all around £1,000 ish over a few months 4 lost, 5th one won, messi to score at 8/11 , next day or so tried to back rooney for around a grand and was restricted to £9 , clowns
I rang up and went through my betting transactions and was told something along the lines of we didn’t like your style of betting , wtf I’m a loser !!
None of them want to lay a bet , although they’ll happily lay you whatever at evens when it’s 11/10 on betfair!
In the end betfair swallowed me up and I had counselling and haven’t had a sports bet of note since 1st Jan 2013 when I was laying Charlton to win at Watford, Jacko last minute winner !
Glad to get that off my chest again and breeeeeathe
Don't tell me stig I've been there done it.
Drawing £300 Out to run down the club to get on the fruity.
Bag of ones I'd ask ,£20 worth.
1st pound goes in its like heaven.
7/10 of course I'm going to do the lot.
I hope they reduce stakes ASAP, I have an occasional go but all you see is someone swearing at the machine next to you as to how much they’ve lost.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/02/fobts-row-minister-quit-over-claim-pro-gambling-mp-secured-delay
Gambling is something I’ve never really understood, with drinking there’s a guaranteed “buzz”. Gambling to me seems to have no reward.
Chasing losses on fruit machines is bad though and the reason I steer clear of them nowadays
The only element lobbying against the promised legislation is the vultures who profit directly from the machines.
Weasel words like: "the gambling addicted will always find ways to piss away all their money and more besides" come from black hearted racketeers, getting fat on the misery FOBT's cause. In the worst cases it will take the poor diseased souls 50 times longer to ruin themselves financially at £2 max stakes. If the sheer amount of time that takes causes one sap to moderate their behaviour, the change is worthwhile.
Nobody with 2 grey cells to rub together plays a fruit machine with a genuine expectation of a return. FFS they have the "payout rate" printed on the front.
A complete chump with a pocketful of cash can easily lose it betting on horses, dogs, whatever but there always remains a chance of a win and that chance is not influenced by the bet-taker (not legally anyway). FOBT's guarantee that all the mug punter's money will end up inside the terminal. Facilitating that at £100 stakes rather than £2 stakes is despicably unjustifiable.
The government has backed down and will bring in the change in April
In truth I didn't have a pot to piss in so anything I won was swallowed by the debts of a losing night....but you don't remember them so they get blocked out of your mind.
Nowadays I rarely go to the pub so it's not an issue - but there are times when I am in a pub and stick £10 or £20 in a machine but rarely do I come out on top any more. The more modern problem is iPhone games.....I got immersed in one of those and spanked £500 about a year ago. Wouldn't have been a problem except for the fact my iTunes account has my wife's credit card attached. #schoolboyerror