Posters that know much more about their cycling then me - what would you views be in terms of best training to improve my watts/ftp.
At the moment I tend to go out for a cycle with my friend at the weekend, usually around 50 - 60kms, and usually on my own once during the week. In between that I will cycle to work sometimes which is around 15km one way and do the odd Zwift session.
I did try and do a Zwift training plan recently, but to cut a long story short I found it to much of a struggle even though I kept dropping down my FTP to try and accommodate this. So currently if I do a Zwift session I just tend to do sweet spot training for an hour or so which I find easier.
I track my HR data but to be honest I cannot make heads or tails of what the old ticker wants to do, so was wondering if it would be worth investing in a power metre for outside cycling so I have a better idea of what power zones etc I am cycling in.
I have no desire to race, I just like the idea of improving more, and making my weekend cycles longer and quicker and less of a struggle ha ha.
(Coaching hat on) 1 - Buy a power meter. Honestly, training with power is night and day different to training to heart rate 2 - Do a ramp test, an FTP test and a 1 minute power test 3 - Follow a solid plan, something like this: Monday - rest day Tuesday - intervals (Vo2 max or Tabatas) Wednesday - over-unders Thursday - Recovery spin Friday - shortish tempo/ftp effort Saturday - base ride Sunday - base ride Gradually increasing the number of intervals on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, and the length of the rides on Saturdays and Sundays over a three week period, then in week four, take out the interval and over unders on Tuesday and Wednesday and replace them with recovery rides, and only do one ride at the weekend. Do that for three months with a slightly increasing workload each four week period and you'll improve.
That's the basic improver plan that I charge around 50 quid a month for on training peaks (it's not exactly that, varies from rider to rider and is geared towards their specific goals and riding type, but in theory, that's a good start for most riders)
If you're not familiar with the terms (Vo2 max intervals, Tabatas, over-unders), look them up on the Internet, you'll find sessions based around them (Coaching hat off)
Most 'improvement' in cycling requires more time on your bike. That can be difficult to commit to if you have other things in your life - but you can sort of offset that by going a lot harder on the rides you do put in
(Coaching hat on) 1 - Buy a power meter. Honestly, training with power is night and day different to training to heart rate 2 - Do a ramp test, an FTP test and a 1 minute power test 3 - Follow a solid plan, something like this: Monday - rest day Tuesday - intervals (Vo2 max or Tabatas) Wednesday - over-unders Thursday - Recovery spin Friday - shortish tempo/ftp effort Saturday - base ride Sunday - base ride Gradually increasing the number of intervals on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, and the length of the rides on Saturdays and Sundays over a three week period, then in week four, take out the interval and over unders on Tuesday and Wednesday and replace them with recovery rides, and only do one ride at the weekend. Do that for three months with a slightly increasing workload each four week period and you'll improve.
That's the basic improver plan that I charge around 50 quid a month for on training peaks (it's not exactly that, varies from rider to rider and is geared towards their specific goals and riding type, but in theory, that's a good start for most riders)
If you're not familiar with the terms (Vo2 max intervals, Tabatas, over-unders), look them up on the Internet, you'll find sessions based around them (Coaching hat off)
Most 'improvement' in cycling requires more time on your bike. That can be difficult to commit to if you have other things in your life - but you can sort of offset that by going a lot harder on the rides you do put in
Thanks mate, that is very useful.
From your experience can the Ramp Test be wildly wrong. When I did one before I started the Zwift training plan I decided to do the Ramp Test as really didn't fancy the full FTP having done it a couple of times before and my FTP came out at 225watts. Which I would be surprised if I could sustain for 10 minutes, never mind 1 hour!
I think the thing I struggled with the most with the Zwift training was the constant change in cadence it asked of you. Is that a common thing in training, I understand you need to be taken out you comfort zone, but trying to push watts close to my FTP whilst having to ride at a cadence I didn't enjoy just made me feel sick.
Finally I am trying to drop weight from 80kg to around 75kg which I imagine will help somewhat. Especially as it's always elevation that gives me the most issue.
Sorry to basically be leeching your coaching credentials for free. Maybe if I ever find the time between work and a 21 month old I could pay you for your services in real life.
(Coaching hat on) 1 - Buy a power meter. Honestly, training with power is night and day different to training to heart rate 2 - Do a ramp test, an FTP test and a 1 minute power test 3 - Follow a solid plan, something like this: Monday - rest day Tuesday - intervals (Vo2 max or Tabatas) Wednesday - over-unders Thursday - Recovery spin Friday - shortish tempo/ftp effort Saturday - base ride Sunday - base ride Gradually increasing the number of intervals on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, and the length of the rides on Saturdays and Sundays over a three week period, then in week four, take out the interval and over unders on Tuesday and Wednesday and replace them with recovery rides, and only do one ride at the weekend. Do that for three months with a slightly increasing workload each four week period and you'll improve.
That's the basic improver plan that I charge around 50 quid a month for on training peaks (it's not exactly that, varies from rider to rider and is geared towards their specific goals and riding type, but in theory, that's a good start for most riders)
If you're not familiar with the terms (Vo2 max intervals, Tabatas, over-unders), look them up on the Internet, you'll find sessions based around them (Coaching hat off)
Most 'improvement' in cycling requires more time on your bike. That can be difficult to commit to if you have other things in your life - but you can sort of offset that by going a lot harder on the rides you do put in
Thanks mate, that is very useful.
From your experience can the Ramp Test be wildly wrong. When I did one before I started the Zwift training plan I decided to do the Ramp Test as really didn't fancy the full FTP having done it a couple of times before and my FTP came out at 225watts. Which I would be surprised if I could sustain for 10 minutes, never mind 1 hour!
I think the thing I struggled with the most with the Zwift training was the constant change in cadence it asked of you. Is that a common thing in training, I understand you need to be taken out you comfort zone, but trying to push watts close to my FTP whilst having to ride at a cadence I didn't enjoy just made me feel sick.
Finally I am trying to drop weight from 80kg to around 75kg which I imagine will help somewhat. Especially as it's always elevation that gives me the most issue.
Sorry to basically be leeching your coaching credentials for free. Maybe if I ever find the time between work and a 21 month old I could pay you for your services in real life.
Hi - no worries, there's enough people going round who want coaching and I don't do it full time (yet) so more than happy to give out generic advice for nowt
Ramp tests can vary, but provided you;re doing them properly they're unlikely to be wildly off. Don't forget that the last interval you complete isn't your FTP - if you're taking it as that figure, then yes it'll be well over what you could sustain for an hour. You should take the last ramp you complete and multiply it by 0.75 - that's your FTP according to the ramp test. I find that generally it's within about 5% of the figure my riders get for their FTP test (it's usually a little higher because I mainly work with road racers, who have a bigger anaerobic capacity than the TT guys I coach - who tend to be older, and their power curve is slightly more geared towards longer efforts, so the ramp test result is a touch lower for them.
Three rider profiles here show the kind of difference you should be seeing:
Mine (Bit of everything, road races, crits and TTs) Ramp Test 438w = FTP calculated at 329. 20 min FTP test 343w = FTP calculated at 325. 1 Hour full FTP test (don't EVER do this unless you're racing or a sadist!) 325w Rider A (17, crits and road races) Ramp Test 417w = FTP calculated at 312. 20 min FTP test 303w = FTP calculated at 293 Rider B (36, time trials and triathlons) Ramp Test 386w = FTP calculated at 289. 20 min FTP test 298w = FTP calculated at 283
Cadence is a funny thing. If I put a cadence session in, it's specifically geared towards cadence and not power. I find that - other than general advice to 'spin a little faster' when doing anaerobic efforts, or 'slow your cadence down by 5 rpm' for efforts aimed at developing your quads, advice to vary your cadence in sessions is counter-productive. There's a lot of bollocks spouted about an 'optimal' cadence for regular riding. The 'optimal' cadence is one you feel comfortable doing and can put power out without it fatiguing you. Racing is a different story (in a crit it doesn't matter how powerful you are - a cadence of 80 just won't cut it as you'll get dropped like a stone when attacks go or you're halfway down the bunch coming out of a corner) - but for general riding and improving, ignore cadence.
Weight is ALWAYS important. My weight bounces around between about 80kg (now) and 73kg (race weight). Every year it's a struggle for me to maintain weight during race season because I get hangry (believe me, hanger is a real thing) when I work more intensity into my plan or when I'm racing. Off-season is when I lose weight because the majority of my training is dull base miles, which don't leave me raging when I don't eat. With cycling, it's a virtuous circle. The more you ride, the more you lose weight - and the more you lose weight, the faster you get. Have an idea of where your 'ground floor' is for weight loss though. A couple of years ago I got it into my head that I was going to do hillier races than the generally flat or 'lumpy' races and crits I usually do, so got down to 72kg. Unfortunately, my power fell off a cliff so it was counterproductive (I was getting dropped in races I'd finished top ten in the year before and was still nowhere near light enough to go with the attacks when the twiglets put the hurt on in hilly circuits)
I use TrainerRoad, but am intending to transfer to SufferFest when I update my laptop: Sufferfest doesn't work on Android annoyingly. The podcast from TrainerRoad is free and quite useful - Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast. I've found it's become a bit flabbier recently but the older podcasts were a little less chatty and gave Chad their main coach more airtime:
Weight loss is probably not going to improve your FTP riding in the South of England. I also found threshold and over/unders exhausted me last year even on a light program - 3 times a week on the Trainer. When I rode outdoors my legs were heavy and I was producing less power. Possibly it was the heat of last summer, and not fuelling anywhere near enough on the indoor trainer.
This year my FTP is slightly down as I've not done any serious riding abroad in the Mountains. But I'm riding more and my recovery is much better than last year. I'm getting times up the small local hill climbs that I used to get 10-12 years ago, whereas last year my legs were super heavy and slow. In short if you're not racing improving FTP isn't everything. You can be improving endurance which will greatly improve your outdoor rides. Sweetspot is great for this.
One very definite tip is whatever you go for make sure you hydrate well indoors and use a recovery drink, especially for any ride over an hour indoors. We're all different but last year normal diet wasn't enough to help me recover from indoor over/unders. This year I seem to be coping much better with a recovery drink. Maybe the heat of early/middle summer wasn't helping either for an indoor training block, as the block I'm doing now is similar and I'm coping well.
Weight loss won't help your ftp, but it makes a big difference on anything above about a 4% gradient. The hills down there might not be long, but they're generally steeper than you'll find on the continent, and w/kg makes a bigger difference on steeper gradients. Closest we've got to a proper climb locally to me is Sheephouse Lane - it's less than 3km in length in total but my PB up there is a minute quicker at race weight than it is at current weight (7kg heavier) - and that's almost entirely due to the steep (12% or so) kickers at the start and in the middle
On a flat stage a breakaway will share turns at the front then drop back to get the benefit of drafting until they get back to the front. This saving energy and getting maximum speed on the road.
On a mountain stage this doesn’t seem to happen. You get individual riders just taking really long turns at the front. Why don’t they share as they do on the flat stages.
Thank you for all your input guys, it has been very interesting to read. Hoping to do some proper training over the winter, and hopefully hit the ground running (cycling) next summer.
I currently use 'tailwind' when I cycle inside or outside - though because I am dropping weight and trying to be in a calorie deficit I am trying to limit my intake. Which probably didn't help with my cycle on Saturday when I was totally cooked on the final little 'climb' home.
In terms of trying to improve my climbing, I live right next to shooters hill so have been doing the odd session where I just go up and down that for an hour or so. Will that be helpful or do I need to try and do that but in a more structured way?
On a flat stage a breakaway will share turns at the front then drop back to get the benefit of drafting until they get back to the front. This saving energy and getting maximum speed on the road.
On a mountain stage this doesn’t seem to happen. You get individual riders just taking really long turns at the front. Why don’t they share as they do on the flat stages.
Weight becomes more of a factor when climbing due to gravity. Drafting provides much less respite than on the flat. Where the relationship between gradient and drafting decouples is debated, but say it's around 7%. If someone's riding at threshold on a 10% climb to prevent attacks from the little climbing specialists, if he were to peel off the train you'd face a very big risk of not getting back on the train; plus other GC riders being able to disrupt the chain.
You'll see attempted disruption of trains on the flat, but the riders will fight to protect their line. It does happen on climbs, not so much for the strongest teams, but imagine losing a wheel when you're at the max and your climbing speed is all your own legs?
A climbing train is meant to climb at the sustainable max power their GC leader can climb at. Most of his team will not be able to match that power output all the way up. It's much better the domestiques ride smoothly, most probably at a power level slightly above their sustainable max power. Physically it's hard to switch this on and off at elite level, psychologically it can be prematurely devestating. Either way by being at the back he'll gain little to no respite in his power output. Climbing at elite level is all about destroying your rivals. Much better for the domestique to ride to exhaustion than risking a premature collapse, losing a wheel and thereby disrupting the process.
Let me just say, and unfortunately I do not have as much time I was I would like to devout to more interesting replies - but I am loving this technical cycling chat.
I know it's all bloody subscriptions but have a look at Rouvy FishCostaFortune. I quite like hill repeats but maybe that's because I climb like an amateur! I can't imagine Shooter's Hill is much fun to climb especially now we're approaching winter.
Rouvy has thousands of climbs loaded into it from local to Pyrenees. A friend uses it and it's improved his stamina. Their subscription is about to go up next month so if you sign up now you'll be kept at the lower present price:
On a flat stage a breakaway will share turns at the front then drop back to get the benefit of drafting until they get back to the front. This saving energy and getting maximum speed on the road.
On a mountain stage this doesn’t seem to happen. You get individual riders just taking really long turns at the front. Why don’t they share as they do on the flat stages.
Weight becomes more of a factor when climbing due to gravity. Drafting provides much less respite than on the flat. Where the relationship between gradient and drafting decouples is debated, but say it's around 7%. If someone's riding at threshold on a 10% climb to prevent attacks from the little climbing specialists, if he were to peel off the train you'd face a very big risk of not getting back on the train; plus other GC riders being able to disrupt the chain.
You'll see attempted disruption of trains on the flat, but the riders will fight to protect their line. It does happen on climbs, not so much for the strongest teams, but imagine losing a wheel when you're at the max and your climbing speed is all your own legs?
A climbing train is meant to climb at the sustainable max power their GC leader can climb at. Most of his team will not be able to match that power output all the way up. It's much better the domestiques ride smoothly, most probably at a power level slightly above their sustainable max power. Physically it's hard to switch this on and off at elite level, psychologically it can be prematurely devestating. Either way by being at the back he'll gain little to no respite in his power output. Climbing at elite level is all about destroying your rivals. Much better for the domestique to ride to exhaustion than risking a premature collapse, losing a wheel and thereby disrupting the process.
Meant to make that reply shorter, hope it helps!
Thanks. I now get that the drafting effect is much reduced and therefore rotating the breakaway is not necessary.
Oooh - I don't know. I've seen (and done) worse in sprints without getting punished. Looked worse in slow motion though (as it always does) and it's not like van Aert closed the door on him. I can understand the decision anyway, and whenever you put the lean on someone you run the risk of getting penalised, so it is what it is.
I think the Cav was much more towards a racing incident. Cav did some horrendous erratic sprints in his early years taking down whole trains of sprinters. Sagan was in the wrong both times but the Cav one he had to instinctively put his arm out otherwise both would have crashed. Indeed both may have crashed because of the gap Cav was going for.
Apparently Alaphilippe has informed Deceuninck that he wants to race GC from 2022. But they, perhaps not surprisingly, see Evenepoel as their GC future.
Weight loss won't help your ftp, but it makes a big difference on anything above about a 4% gradient. The hills down there might not be long, but they're generally steeper than you'll find on the continent, and w/kg makes a bigger difference on steeper gradients. Closest we've got to a proper climb locally to me is Sheephouse Lane - it's less than 3km in length in total but my PB up there is a minute quicker at race weight than it is at current weight (7kg heavier) - and that's almost entirely due to the steep (12% or so) kickers at the start and in the middle
Weight loss won't help your ftp, but it makes a big difference on anything above about a 4% gradient. The hills down there might not be long, but they're generally steeper than you'll find on the continent, and w/kg makes a bigger difference on steeper gradients. Closest we've got to a proper climb locally to me is Sheephouse Lane - it's less than 3km in length in total but my PB up there is a minute quicker at race weight than it is at current weight (7kg heavier) - and that's almost entirely due to the steep (12% or so) kickers at the start and in the middle
Got to stay of those Higos con Miel dude.
I am a gordito so too late for me.
OMG - I would KILL for those right now. Been on cardboard and leaves for three weeks and am so hungry I could eat my own arm
Comments
At the moment I tend to go out for a cycle with my friend at the weekend, usually around 50 - 60kms, and usually on my own once during the week. In between that I will cycle to work sometimes which is around 15km one way and do the odd Zwift session.
I did try and do a Zwift training plan recently, but to cut a long story short I found it to much of a struggle even though I kept dropping down my FTP to try and accommodate this. So currently if I do a Zwift session I just tend to do sweet spot training for an hour or so which I find easier.
I track my HR data but to be honest I cannot make heads or tails of what the old ticker wants to do, so was wondering if it would be worth investing in a power metre for outside cycling so I have a better idea of what power zones etc I am cycling in.
I have no desire to race, I just like the idea of improving more, and making my weekend cycles longer and quicker and less of a struggle ha ha.
I hope that kinda makes sense.
1 - Buy a power meter. Honestly, training with power is night and day different to training to heart rate
2 - Do a ramp test, an FTP test and a 1 minute power test
3 - Follow a solid plan, something like this:
Monday - rest day
Tuesday - intervals (Vo2 max or Tabatas)
Wednesday - over-unders
Thursday - Recovery spin
Friday - shortish tempo/ftp effort
Saturday - base ride
Sunday - base ride
Gradually increasing the number of intervals on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, and the length of the rides on Saturdays and Sundays over a three week period, then in week four, take out the interval and over unders on Tuesday and Wednesday and replace them with recovery rides, and only do one ride at the weekend. Do that for three months with a slightly increasing workload each four week period and you'll improve.
That's the basic improver plan that I charge around 50 quid a month for on training peaks (it's not exactly that, varies from rider to rider and is geared towards their specific goals and riding type, but in theory, that's a good start for most riders)
If you're not familiar with the terms (Vo2 max intervals, Tabatas, over-unders), look them up on the Internet, you'll find sessions based around them
(Coaching hat off)
Most 'improvement' in cycling requires more time on your bike. That can be difficult to commit to if you have other things in your life - but you can sort of offset that by going a lot harder on the rides you do put in
From your experience can the Ramp Test be wildly wrong. When I did one before I started the Zwift training plan I decided to do the Ramp Test as really didn't fancy the full FTP having done it a couple of times before and my FTP came out at 225watts. Which I would be surprised if I could sustain for 10 minutes, never mind 1 hour!
I think the thing I struggled with the most with the Zwift training was the constant change in cadence it asked of you. Is that a common thing in training, I understand you need to be taken out you comfort zone, but trying to push watts close to my FTP whilst having to ride at a cadence I didn't enjoy just made me feel sick.
Finally I am trying to drop weight from 80kg to around 75kg which I imagine will help somewhat. Especially as it's always elevation that gives me the most issue.
Sorry to basically be leeching your coaching credentials for free. Maybe if I ever find the time between work and a 21 month old I could pay you for your services in real life.
Ramp tests can vary, but provided you;re doing them properly they're unlikely to be wildly off. Don't forget that the last interval you complete isn't your FTP - if you're taking it as that figure, then yes it'll be well over what you could sustain for an hour. You should take the last ramp you complete and multiply it by 0.75 - that's your FTP according to the ramp test. I find that generally it's within about 5% of the figure my riders get for their FTP test (it's usually a little higher because I mainly work with road racers, who have a bigger anaerobic capacity than the TT guys I coach - who tend to be older, and their power curve is slightly more geared towards longer efforts, so the ramp test result is a touch lower for them.
Three rider profiles here show the kind of difference you should be seeing:
Mine (Bit of everything, road races, crits and TTs) Ramp Test 438w = FTP calculated at 329. 20 min FTP test 343w = FTP calculated at 325. 1 Hour full FTP test (don't EVER do this unless you're racing or a sadist!) 325w
Rider A (17, crits and road races) Ramp Test 417w = FTP calculated at 312. 20 min FTP test 303w = FTP calculated at 293
Rider B (36, time trials and triathlons) Ramp Test 386w = FTP calculated at 289. 20 min FTP test 298w = FTP calculated at 283
Cadence is a funny thing. If I put a cadence session in, it's specifically geared towards cadence and not power. I find that - other than general advice to 'spin a little faster' when doing anaerobic efforts, or 'slow your cadence down by 5 rpm' for efforts aimed at developing your quads, advice to vary your cadence in sessions is counter-productive. There's a lot of bollocks spouted about an 'optimal' cadence for regular riding. The 'optimal' cadence is one you feel comfortable doing and can put power out without it fatiguing you. Racing is a different story (in a crit it doesn't matter how powerful you are - a cadence of 80 just won't cut it as you'll get dropped like a stone when attacks go or you're halfway down the bunch coming out of a corner) - but for general riding and improving, ignore cadence.
Weight is ALWAYS important. My weight bounces around between about 80kg (now) and 73kg (race weight). Every year it's a struggle for me to maintain weight during race season because I get hangry (believe me, hanger is a real thing) when I work more intensity into my plan or when I'm racing. Off-season is when I lose weight because the majority of my training is dull base miles, which don't leave me raging when I don't eat. With cycling, it's a virtuous circle. The more you ride, the more you lose weight - and the more you lose weight, the faster you get. Have an idea of where your 'ground floor' is for weight loss though. A couple of years ago I got it into my head that I was going to do hillier races than the generally flat or 'lumpy' races and crits I usually do, so got down to 72kg. Unfortunately, my power fell off a cliff so it was counterproductive (I was getting dropped in races I'd finished top ten in the year before and was still nowhere near light enough to go with the attacks when the twiglets put the hurt on in hilly circuits)
https://www.trainerroad.com/podcast
Weight loss is probably not going to improve your FTP riding in the South of England. I also found threshold and over/unders exhausted me last year even on a light program - 3 times a week on the Trainer. When I rode outdoors my legs were heavy and I was producing less power. Possibly it was the heat of last summer, and not fuelling anywhere near enough on the indoor trainer.
This year my FTP is slightly down as I've not done any serious riding abroad in the Mountains. But I'm riding more and my recovery is much better than last year. I'm getting times up the small local hill climbs that I used to get 10-12 years ago, whereas last year my legs were super heavy and slow. In short if you're not racing improving FTP isn't everything. You can be improving endurance which will greatly improve your outdoor rides. Sweetspot is great for this.
One very definite tip is whatever you go for make sure you hydrate well indoors and use a recovery drink, especially for any ride over an hour indoors. We're all different but last year normal diet wasn't enough to help me recover from indoor over/unders. This year I seem to be coping much better with a recovery drink. Maybe the heat of early/middle summer wasn't helping either for an indoor training block, as the block I'm doing now is similar and I'm coping well.
On a flat stage a breakaway will share turns at the front then drop back to get the benefit of drafting until they get back to the front. This saving energy and getting maximum speed on the road.
On a mountain stage this doesn’t seem to happen. You get individual riders just taking really long turns at the front. Why don’t they share as they do on the flat stages.
I currently use 'tailwind' when I cycle inside or outside - though because I am dropping weight and trying to be in a calorie deficit I am trying to limit my intake. Which probably didn't help with my cycle on Saturday when I was totally cooked on the final little 'climb' home.
In terms of trying to improve my climbing, I live right next to shooters hill so have been doing the odd session where I just go up and down that for an hour or so. Will that be helpful or do I need to try and do that but in a more structured way?
You'll see attempted disruption of trains on the flat, but the riders will fight to protect their line. It does happen on climbs, not so much for the strongest teams, but imagine losing a wheel when you're at the max and your climbing speed is all your own legs?
A climbing train is meant to climb at the sustainable max power their GC leader can climb at. Most of his team will not be able to match that power output all the way up. It's much better the domestiques ride smoothly, most probably at a power level slightly above their sustainable max power. Physically it's hard to switch this on and off at elite level, psychologically it can be prematurely devestating. Either way by being at the back he'll gain little to no respite in his power output. Climbing at elite level is all about destroying your rivals. Much better for the domestique to ride to exhaustion than risking a premature collapse, losing a wheel and thereby disrupting the process.
Meant to make that reply shorter, hope it helps!
Rouvy has thousands of climbs loaded into it from local to Pyrenees. A friend uses it and it's improved his stamina. Their subscription is about to go up next month so if you sign up now you'll be kept at the lower present price:
https://rouvy.com/en/
After almost killing Cav on stage 4 in 2017 and getting thrown out, you'd think he'd learn his lesson.
BTW - what's the beef between Sagan and Trentin?
I am a gordito so too late for me.