Quite a statement from him yesterday, and fair play to him. No player should have to put up with racism. Although i accept Erdogan isn't the greatest of people to be photographed with whilst saying "my president'.
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose"
The guy is a 5 time German footballer of the year, a world cup winner, has 92 caps and has created more assists for Germany than any player since making his debut 9 years ago.
It's easily one of, if not the, most insightful, intelligent things written by (or even for) a footballer.
We can talk about if what he did in meeting Erdogan (and what he wrote) is appropriate, but it's a far more prosaic conversation than what was put forward by the growing right wing, racist, xenophobic bloc in Germany which basically said "We went out because you're Turkish" (aka brown aka not like us and it all starts to sound eerily familiar).
As FA points out, this has definitely been an issue with Switzerland in recent memory, as it has with Belgium (though *as I understand it* with Belgium it's a little more complicated as it gets at the larger division in Belgian society between the Flemish and French speakers).
Also, I do think this happens drastically less in England. But it's hard for me to look at the treatment Raheem Sterling has received and not think that at least some of that is driven by racial animus, especially given the sources for some of it. I know the tabloids have a long history of tearing England players down, but when you look at the things Raheem Sterling gets abuse over, as opposed to say Wayne Rooney, it's insane.
I honestly don’t believe that Sterling gets abuse because he’s black or born in Jamaica. The former is not a talking point and I reckon the majority of people here don’t even realise the latter (not least because Sterling sounds like a cockney when he talks!).
Sterling gets stick because he regularly falls massively below expectations in an England shirt. Wayne Rooney is England’s all time leading scorer. The reason the two are treated differently has very little to do with race.
Sorry I was talking about the way someone like Rooney was treated in the past. I agree that right now they're treated differently for many other reasons. But Rooney had to get a prostitute in order to get the levels of abuse Sterling seemed to get for buying his mum a house.
It's not an easy topic over here in Germany. There were a lot of discussion after the photos of Ozil and Gundogan with Erdogan appeared. As you all know there were a lot of trouble on the political side between Germany and Turkey in the last two years. Imprison of German people with Turkish roots. And as @ForeverAddickted stated: If there had been success (at least semi-final) for the German team nobody would have cared. But after this disaster you have to find out what has gone wrong. Putting all blame on Ozil is way to simple. He wasn't the only player to underperform and he didn't play that bad in the game against South Korea. Similar to Arsenal supports everybody in Germany expects Ozil to do extraodinary things the whole 90 minutes.
The critism "I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose" is imo not to wrong. If you are looking for a scapegoat the point of foreign origins is pointed out by people who are looking for simple answers. And there are many of these people.
If the DFB isn't able to find the 'real' rootcause of the World Cup exit in the group stage it will be tough years the support the German team (Die Mannschaft). I expect to have more fun in supporting Charlton tbh.
Fucking hell, things must be astronomically bad for German football then.
Quite a statement from him yesterday, and fair play to him. No player should have to put up with racism. Although i accept Erdogan isn't the greatest of people to be photographed with whilst saying "my president'.
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose"
The guy is a 5 time German footballer of the year, a world cup winner, has 92 caps and has created more assists for Germany than any player since making his debut 9 years ago.
It's easily one of, if not the, most insightful, intelligent things written by (or even for) a footballer.
We can talk about if what he did in meeting Erdogan (and what he wrote) is appropriate, but it's a far more prosaic conversation than what was put forward by the growing right wing, racist, xenophobic bloc in Germany which basically said "We went out because you're Turkish" (aka brown aka not like us and it all starts to sound eerily familiar).
As FA points out, this has definitely been an issue with Switzerland in recent memory, as it has with Belgium (though *as I understand it* with Belgium it's a little more complicated as it gets at the larger division in Belgian society between the Flemish and French speakers).
Also, I do think this happens drastically less in England. But it's hard for me to look at the treatment Raheem Sterling has received and not think that at least some of that is driven by racial animus, especially given the sources for some of it. I know the tabloids have a long history of tearing England players down, but when you look at the things Raheem Sterling gets abuse over, as opposed to say Wayne Rooney, it's insane.
I honestly don’t believe that Sterling gets abuse because he’s black or born in Jamaica. The former is not a talking point and I reckon the majority of people here don’t even realise the latter (not least because Sterling sounds like a cockney when he talks!).
Sterling gets stick because he regularly falls massively below expectations in an England shirt. Wayne Rooney is England’s all time leading scorer. The reason the two are treated differently has very little to do with race.
I think Sterling wouldn't be singled out as much if he wasn't black - some of our press has a racist agenda. Having said that if you feel you might be a target I'd avoid giving people the ammo.
Ozil's meeting with Erdogan was always going to be used against him if things turned sour
Quite a statement from him yesterday, and fair play to him. No player should have to put up with racism. Although i accept Erdogan isn't the greatest of people to be photographed with whilst saying "my president'.
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose"
The guy is a 5 time German footballer of the year, a world cup winner, has 92 caps and has created more assists for Germany than any player since making his debut 9 years ago.
It's easily one of, if not the, most insightful, intelligent things written by (or even for) a footballer.
We can talk about if what he did in meeting Erdogan (and what he wrote) is appropriate, but it's a far more prosaic conversation than what was put forward by the growing right wing, racist, xenophobic bloc in Germany which basically said "We went out because you're Turkish" (aka brown aka not like us and it all starts to sound eerily familiar).
As FA points out, this has definitely been an issue with Switzerland in recent memory, as it has with Belgium (though *as I understand it* with Belgium it's a little more complicated as it gets at the larger division in Belgian society between the Flemish and French speakers).
Also, I do think this happens drastically less in England. But it's hard for me to look at the treatment Raheem Sterling has received and not think that at least some of that is driven by racial animus, especially given the sources for some of it. I know the tabloids have a long history of tearing England players down, but when you look at the things Raheem Sterling gets abuse over, as opposed to say Wayne Rooney, it's insane.
I honestly don’t believe that Sterling gets abuse because he’s black or born in Jamaica. The former is not a talking point and I reckon the majority of people here don’t even realise the latter (not least because Sterling sounds like a cockney when he talks!).
Sterling gets stick because he regularly falls massively below expectations in an England shirt. Wayne Rooney is England’s all time leading scorer. The reason the two are treated differently has very little to do with race.
I think Sterling wouldn't be singled out as much if he wasn't black - some of our press has a racist agenda. Having said that if you feel you might be a target I'd avoid giving people the ammo. /blockquote>
But then why him then? I've not seen any press attacks on Lingard or Rashford for example
Quite a statement from him yesterday, and fair play to him. No player should have to put up with racism. Although i accept Erdogan isn't the greatest of people to be photographed with whilst saying "my president'.
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose"
The guy is a 5 time German footballer of the year, a world cup winner, has 92 caps and has created more assists for Germany than any player since making his debut 9 years ago.
It's easily one of, if not the, most insightful, intelligent things written by (or even for) a footballer.
We can talk about if what he did in meeting Erdogan (and what he wrote) is appropriate, but it's a far more prosaic conversation than what was put forward by the growing right wing, racist, xenophobic bloc in Germany which basically said "We went out because you're Turkish" (aka brown aka not like us and it all starts to sound eerily familiar).
As FA points out, this has definitely been an issue with Switzerland in recent memory, as it has with Belgium (though *as I understand it* with Belgium it's a little more complicated as it gets at the larger division in Belgian society between the Flemish and French speakers).
Also, I do think this happens drastically less in England. But it's hard for me to look at the treatment Raheem Sterling has received and not think that at least some of that is driven by racial animus, especially given the sources for some of it. I know the tabloids have a long history of tearing England players down, but when you look at the things Raheem Sterling gets abuse over, as opposed to say Wayne Rooney, it's insane.
I honestly don’t believe that Sterling gets abuse because he’s black or born in Jamaica. The former is not a talking point and I reckon the majority of people here don’t even realise the latter (not least because Sterling sounds like a cockney when he talks!).
Sterling gets stick because he regularly falls massively below expectations in an England shirt. Wayne Rooney is England’s all time leading scorer. The reason the two are treated differently has very little to do with race.
I think Sterling wouldn't be singled out as much if he wasn't black - some of our press has a racist agenda. Having said that if you feel you might be a target I'd avoid giving people the ammo.
Ozil's meeting with Erdogan was always going to be used against him if things turned sour
It’s an interesting perspective. I have to say I actually don’t think Sterling’s colour has anything to do with the criticism he’s faced (often unfair). I think it’s more that he’s seen as the archetypal spoilt kid that’s come through an academy - basically he’s “everything that’s wrong with the modern game” in the eyes of some fans/pundits. There aren’t many other players, white or black, that get the same sort of stick so I don’t think race can be the determining factor.
Quite a statement from him yesterday, and fair play to him. No player should have to put up with racism. Although i accept Erdogan isn't the greatest of people to be photographed with whilst saying "my president'.
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose"
The guy is a 5 time German footballer of the year, a world cup winner, has 92 caps and has created more assists for Germany than any player since making his debut 9 years ago.
It's easily one of, if not the, most insightful, intelligent things written by (or even for) a footballer.
We can talk about if what he did in meeting Erdogan (and what he wrote) is appropriate, but it's a far more prosaic conversation than what was put forward by the growing right wing, racist, xenophobic bloc in Germany which basically said "We went out because you're Turkish" (aka brown aka not like us and it all starts to sound eerily familiar).
As FA points out, this has definitely been an issue with Switzerland in recent memory, as it has with Belgium (though *as I understand it* with Belgium it's a little more complicated as it gets at the larger division in Belgian society between the Flemish and French speakers).
Also, I do think this happens drastically less in England. But it's hard for me to look at the treatment Raheem Sterling has received and not think that at least some of that is driven by racial animus, especially given the sources for some of it. I know the tabloids have a long history of tearing England players down, but when you look at the things Raheem Sterling gets abuse over, as opposed to say Wayne Rooney, it's insane.
I honestly don’t believe that Sterling gets abuse because he’s black or born in Jamaica. The former is not a talking point and I reckon the majority of people here don’t even realise the latter (not least because Sterling sounds like a cockney when he talks!).
Sterling gets stick because he regularly falls massively below expectations in an England shirt. Wayne Rooney is England’s all time leading scorer. The reason the two are treated differently has very little to do with race.
I think Sterling wouldn't be singled out as much if he wasn't black - some of our press has a racist agenda. Having said that if you feel you might be a target I'd avoid giving people the ammo.
Ozil's meeting with Erdogan was always going to be used against him if things turned sour
I don’t think the way he conducting himself whilst departing the bin dippers helped him.
Quite a statement from him yesterday, and fair play to him. No player should have to put up with racism. Although i accept Erdogan isn't the greatest of people to be photographed with whilst saying "my president'.
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose"
The guy is a 5 time German footballer of the year, a world cup winner, has 92 caps and has created more assists for Germany than any player since making his debut 9 years ago.
It's easily one of, if not the, most insightful, intelligent things written by (or even for) a footballer.
We can talk about if what he did in meeting Erdogan (and what he wrote) is appropriate, but it's a far more prosaic conversation than what was put forward by the growing right wing, racist, xenophobic bloc in Germany which basically said "We went out because you're Turkish" (aka brown aka not like us and it all starts to sound eerily familiar).
As FA points out, this has definitely been an issue with Switzerland in recent memory, as it has with Belgium (though *as I understand it* with Belgium it's a little more complicated as it gets at the larger division in Belgian society between the Flemish and French speakers).
Also, I do think this happens drastically less in England. But it's hard for me to look at the treatment Raheem Sterling has received and not think that at least some of that is driven by racial animus, especially given the sources for some of it. I know the tabloids have a long history of tearing England players down, but when you look at the things Raheem Sterling gets abuse over, as opposed to say Wayne Rooney, it's insane.
I honestly don’t believe that Sterling gets abuse because he’s black or born in Jamaica. The former is not a talking point and I reckon the majority of people here don’t even realise the latter (not least because Sterling sounds like a cockney when he talks!).
Sterling gets stick because he regularly falls massively below expectations in an England shirt. Wayne Rooney is England’s all time leading scorer. The reason the two are treated differently has very little to do with race.
I think Sterling wouldn't be singled out as much if he wasn't black - some of our press has a racist agenda. Having said that if you feel you might be a target I'd avoid giving people the ammo.
Ozil's meeting with Erdogan was always going to be used against him if things turned sour
It’s an interesting perspective. I have to say I actually don’t think Sterling’s colour has anything to do with the criticism he’s faced (often unfair). I think it’s more that he’s seen as the archetypal spoilt kid that’s come through an academy - basically he’s “everything that’s wrong with the modern game” in the eyes of some fans/pundits. There aren’t many other players, white or black, that get the same sort of stick so I don’t think race can be the determining factor.
Some of our press has a racist agenda and this surfaces every now and again - there is a history of this. It would be a bit naive to think this has disappeared from these shores as much as we'd like to pretend it has.
If a black player fails or behaves in an anti-social manner he's more likely to get singled out. I'd love to believe that centuries of racism in Britain have completely disappeared.
Sterling doesn't always help himself but he seems to me to cop more than his fair share of abuse.
The food's excellent, the people are friendly and the weather's fantastic.
I would add a note of caution however that neither my parents or grandparents are of Turkish descent.
I've never been to Germany.
Also not related to any Turkish people. I've only been there for a day and the place pissed me off. Had a trip over from samos. Couldn't move for people trying to sell me a rug or some rotten kebab. Place stank.
Personally I was gripped reading it and wanted to get to the last para and him to say something on the lines of “I’m proud to play for my country, I will continue to give my all playing for my country, and i refuse to have my love for my country questioned by those with racist or political agendas. The good people of Germany must stand united against this rising unrest blah blah”
and turn the heat full circle upon the other side.
To be fair, I think it was the ‘my president’ quote that has caused this. A president who Germany have criticised for his human rights abuse and for creating a soon to be dictatorship.
The German fans have voted him National team player of the year five times or so, so not like they have always had an agenda against him.
Another example of sportsmen being used for political capital.
Been to see Arsenal a few times this season and he’s a class above the whole team.
I’ve unfortuantely been aswell and he goes missing in big games and comes across as v lazy - most arsenal players do.
Chances are if you only go to Arsenal home games where they dominate possession and win most of their games, then you'll think he's one of the best players in the league.
If you watch Arsenal away, where they have to battle and dig in, you'll wonder if he's actually on the pitch half the time.
It'd be interesting to see what his stats are in home games v the ones he plays away.
Quite a statement from him yesterday, and fair play to him. No player should have to put up with racism. Although i accept Erdogan isn't the greatest of people to be photographed with whilst saying "my president'.
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose"
The guy is a 5 time German footballer of the year, a world cup winner, has 92 caps and has created more assists for Germany than any player since making his debut 9 years ago.
It's easily one of, if not the, most insightful, intelligent things written by (or even for) a footballer.
We can talk about if what he did in meeting Erdogan (and what he wrote) is appropriate, but it's a far more prosaic conversation than what was put forward by the growing right wing, racist, xenophobic bloc in Germany which basically said "We went out because you're Turkish" (aka brown aka not like us and it all starts to sound eerily familiar).
As FA points out, this has definitely been an issue with Switzerland in recent memory, as it has with Belgium (though *as I understand it* with Belgium it's a little more complicated as it gets at the larger division in Belgian society between the Flemish and French speakers).
Also, I do think this happens drastically less in England. But it's hard for me to look at the treatment Raheem Sterling has received and not think that at least some of that is driven by racial animus, especially given the sources for some of it. I know the tabloids have a long history of tearing England players down, but when you look at the things Raheem Sterling gets abuse over, as opposed to say Wayne Rooney, it's insane.
I honestly don’t believe that Sterling gets abuse because he’s black or born in Jamaica. The former is not a talking point and I reckon the majority of people here don’t even realise the latter (not least because Sterling sounds like a cockney when he talks!).
Sterling gets stick because he regularly falls massively below expectations in an England shirt. Wayne Rooney is England’s all time leading scorer. The reason the two are treated differently has very little to do with race.
I think Sterling wouldn't be singled out as much if he wasn't black - some of our press has a racist agenda. Having said that if you feel you might be a target I'd avoid giving people the ammo.
Ozil's meeting with Erdogan was always going to be used against him if things turned sour
It’s an interesting perspective. I have to say I actually don’t think Sterling’s colour has anything to do with the criticism he’s faced (often unfair). I think it’s more that he’s seen as the archetypal spoilt kid that’s come through an academy - basically he’s “everything that’s wrong with the modern game” in the eyes of some fans/pundits. There aren’t many other players, white or black, that get the same sort of stick so I don’t think race can be the determining factor.
It's not. Ever since possibly Seaman, the English goalkeepers have taken the most stick imo, and they have been almost exclusively white.
I cannot personally understand why anyone would think that racism has anything to do with the reason that Sterling got the stick he did. Especially as, towards the end of the WC, most people could see what he was bringing to the team and I was seeing more praise for him than criticism, explain that one
RE. Ozil going to Turkey - what's Turkey got to do with him? His grandparents gave up any links he has to the country when they moved to Germany (At least, going by some posters logic, I believe that's the case)
Not criticising his reasoning at all, but I was wondering why he didn’t just quit at the time that it happened if it was that personal for him?
Otherwise it looks as though he just wanted to hang on for one final World Cup opportunity and deliberately picked a time after it to quit. Am I missing something here?
Think some of the criticism of Ozil and other ethnic minority players (particularly the Turkish Germans that met with Erdogan) after they were knocked out of the World Cup got quite nasty, hence this decision. I know the ethnicity of the Switzerland squad was a big talking point there, as I believe it was in Begium.
Seems to be something that’s happening more and more across Europe whereas in England there is no discussion at all about the ethnicity of the England team, it’s not even a talking point, which shows what a progressive and tolerant society we have compared to other places.
I dunno I've read in places where there are a few people who moan about Sterling being Jamaican and the fact that the England National Youth Teams appear to be "stealing" a load of Nigerian players blah blah blah
Really, not sure I’ve seen any of that (other than commenting that Sterling was born in Jamaica, as it’s interesting). Certainly nothing about nicking players from Nigeria.
Ademola Lookman | Dominic Solanke | Tammy Abraham can all represent Nigeria
Think its more the pathetic remarks on Comments Boards (not here) when we won the U17 and U20 World Cup saying that it was really Nigeria who won those World Cups rather than it being England
Lookman, Solanke, Abraham and Alli can choose to represent Nigeria through their parents maybe, but they were all born in England! Not quite sure why Nigerian fans would boo Alli for choosing to play for the country he was born in?! Odd.
Quite a statement from him yesterday, and fair play to him. No player should have to put up with racism. Although i accept Erdogan isn't the greatest of people to be photographed with whilst saying "my president'.
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose"
The guy is a 5 time German footballer of the year, a world cup winner, has 92 caps and has created more assists for Germany than any player since making his debut 9 years ago.
It's easily one of, if not the, most insightful, intelligent things written by (or even for) a footballer.
We can talk about if what he did in meeting Erdogan (and what he wrote) is appropriate, but it's a far more prosaic conversation than what was put forward by the growing right wing, racist, xenophobic bloc in Germany which basically said "We went out because you're Turkish" (aka brown aka not like us and it all starts to sound eerily familiar).
As FA points out, this has definitely been an issue with Switzerland in recent memory, as it has with Belgium (though *as I understand it* with Belgium it's a little more complicated as it gets at the larger division in Belgian society between the Flemish and French speakers).
Also, I do think this happens drastically less in England. But it's hard for me to look at the treatment Raheem Sterling has received and not think that at least some of that is driven by racial animus, especially given the sources for some of it. I know the tabloids have a long history of tearing England players down, but when you look at the things Raheem Sterling gets abuse over, as opposed to say Wayne Rooney, it's insane.
I honestly don’t believe that Sterling gets abuse because he’s black or born in Jamaica. The former is not a talking point and I reckon the majority of people here don’t even realise the latter (not least because Sterling sounds like a cockney when he talks!).
Sterling gets stick because he regularly falls massively below expectations in an England shirt. Wayne Rooney is England’s all time leading scorer. The reason the two are treated differently has very little to do with race.
I think Sterling wouldn't be singled out as much if he wasn't black - some of our press has a racist agenda. Having said that if you feel you might be a target I'd avoid giving people the ammo.
Ozil's meeting with Erdogan was always going to be used against him if things turned sour
It’s an interesting perspective. I have to say I actually don’t think Sterling’s colour has anything to do with the criticism he’s faced (often unfair). I think it’s more that he’s seen as the archetypal spoilt kid that’s come through an academy - basically he’s “everything that’s wrong with the modern game” in the eyes of some fans/pundits. There aren’t many other players, white or black, that get the same sort of stick so I don’t think race can be the determining factor.
It's not. Ever since possibly Seaman, the English goalkeepers have taken the most stick imo, and they have been almost exclusively white.
I cannot personally understand why anyone would think that racism has anything to do with the reason that Sterling got the stick he did. Especially as, towards the end of the WC, most people could see what he was bringing to the team and I was seeing more praise for him than criticism, explain that one
"Explain that one" -The Daily Mail - a racist paper who pick on him in part due to his colour
Quite a statement from him yesterday, and fair play to him. No player should have to put up with racism. Although i accept Erdogan isn't the greatest of people to be photographed with whilst saying "my president'.
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose"
The guy is a 5 time German footballer of the year, a world cup winner, has 92 caps and has created more assists for Germany than any player since making his debut 9 years ago.
It's easily one of, if not the, most insightful, intelligent things written by (or even for) a footballer.
We can talk about if what he did in meeting Erdogan (and what he wrote) is appropriate, but it's a far more prosaic conversation than what was put forward by the growing right wing, racist, xenophobic bloc in Germany which basically said "We went out because you're Turkish" (aka brown aka not like us and it all starts to sound eerily familiar).
As FA points out, this has definitely been an issue with Switzerland in recent memory, as it has with Belgium (though *as I understand it* with Belgium it's a little more complicated as it gets at the larger division in Belgian society between the Flemish and French speakers).
Also, I do think this happens drastically less in England. But it's hard for me to look at the treatment Raheem Sterling has received and not think that at least some of that is driven by racial animus, especially given the sources for some of it. I know the tabloids have a long history of tearing England players down, but when you look at the things Raheem Sterling gets abuse over, as opposed to say Wayne Rooney, it's insane.
I honestly don’t believe that Sterling gets abuse because he’s black or born in Jamaica. The former is not a talking point and I reckon the majority of people here don’t even realise the latter (not least because Sterling sounds like a cockney when he talks!).
Sterling gets stick because he regularly falls massively below expectations in an England shirt. Wayne Rooney is England’s all time leading scorer. The reason the two are treated differently has very little to do with race.
I think Sterling wouldn't be singled out as much if he wasn't black - some of our press has a racist agenda. Having said that if you feel you might be a target I'd avoid giving people the ammo.
Ozil's meeting with Erdogan was always going to be used against him if things turned sour
It’s an interesting perspective. I have to say I actually don’t think Sterling’s colour has anything to do with the criticism he’s faced (often unfair). I think it’s more that he’s seen as the archetypal spoilt kid that’s come through an academy - basically he’s “everything that’s wrong with the modern game” in the eyes of some fans/pundits. There aren’t many other players, white or black, that get the same sort of stick so I don’t think race can be the determining factor.
It's not. Ever since possibly Seaman, the English goalkeepers have taken the most stick imo, and they have been almost exclusively white.
I cannot personally understand why anyone would think that racism has anything to do with the reason that Sterling got the stick he did. Especially as, towards the end of the WC, most people could see what he was bringing to the team and I was seeing more praise for him than criticism, explain that one
Quite a statement from him yesterday, and fair play to him. No player should have to put up with racism. Although i accept Erdogan isn't the greatest of people to be photographed with whilst saying "my president'.
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose"
The guy is a 5 time German footballer of the year, a world cup winner, has 92 caps and has created more assists for Germany than any player since making his debut 9 years ago.
It's easily one of, if not the, most insightful, intelligent things written by (or even for) a footballer.
We can talk about if what he did in meeting Erdogan (and what he wrote) is appropriate, but it's a far more prosaic conversation than what was put forward by the growing right wing, racist, xenophobic bloc in Germany which basically said "We went out because you're Turkish" (aka brown aka not like us and it all starts to sound eerily familiar).
As FA points out, this has definitely been an issue with Switzerland in recent memory, as it has with Belgium (though *as I understand it* with Belgium it's a little more complicated as it gets at the larger division in Belgian society between the Flemish and French speakers).
Also, I do think this happens drastically less in England. But it's hard for me to look at the treatment Raheem Sterling has received and not think that at least some of that is driven by racial animus, especially given the sources for some of it. I know the tabloids have a long history of tearing England players down, but when you look at the things Raheem Sterling gets abuse over, as opposed to say Wayne Rooney, it's insane.
I honestly don’t believe that Sterling gets abuse because he’s black or born in Jamaica. The former is not a talking point and I reckon the majority of people here don’t even realise the latter (not least because Sterling sounds like a cockney when he talks!).
Sterling gets stick because he regularly falls massively below expectations in an England shirt. Wayne Rooney is England’s all time leading scorer. The reason the two are treated differently has very little to do with race.
I think Sterling wouldn't be singled out as much if he wasn't black - some of our press has a racist agenda. Having said that if you feel you might be a target I'd avoid giving people the ammo.
Ozil's meeting with Erdogan was always going to be used against him if things turned sour
It’s an interesting perspective. I have to say I actually don’t think Sterling’s colour has anything to do with the criticism he’s faced (often unfair). I think it’s more that he’s seen as the archetypal spoilt kid that’s come through an academy - basically he’s “everything that’s wrong with the modern game” in the eyes of some fans/pundits. There aren’t many other players, white or black, that get the same sort of stick so I don’t think race can be the determining factor.
It's not. Ever since possibly Seaman, the English goalkeepers have taken the most stick imo, and they have been almost exclusively white.
I cannot personally understand why anyone would think that racism has anything to do with the reason that Sterling got the stick he did. Especially as, towards the end of the WC, most people could see what he was bringing to the team and I was seeing more praise for him than criticism, explain that one
Quite a statement from him yesterday, and fair play to him. No player should have to put up with racism. Although i accept Erdogan isn't the greatest of people to be photographed with whilst saying "my president'.
"I am German when we win, but I am an immigrant when we lose"
The guy is a 5 time German footballer of the year, a world cup winner, has 92 caps and has created more assists for Germany than any player since making his debut 9 years ago.
It's easily one of, if not the, most insightful, intelligent things written by (or even for) a footballer.
We can talk about if what he did in meeting Erdogan (and what he wrote) is appropriate, but it's a far more prosaic conversation than what was put forward by the growing right wing, racist, xenophobic bloc in Germany which basically said "We went out because you're Turkish" (aka brown aka not like us and it all starts to sound eerily familiar).
As FA points out, this has definitely been an issue with Switzerland in recent memory, as it has with Belgium (though *as I understand it* with Belgium it's a little more complicated as it gets at the larger division in Belgian society between the Flemish and French speakers).
Also, I do think this happens drastically less in England. But it's hard for me to look at the treatment Raheem Sterling has received and not think that at least some of that is driven by racial animus, especially given the sources for some of it. I know the tabloids have a long history of tearing England players down, but when you look at the things Raheem Sterling gets abuse over, as opposed to say Wayne Rooney, it's insane.
I honestly don’t believe that Sterling gets abuse because he’s black or born in Jamaica. The former is not a talking point and I reckon the majority of people here don’t even realise the latter (not least because Sterling sounds like a cockney when he talks!).
Sterling gets stick because he regularly falls massively below expectations in an England shirt. Wayne Rooney is England’s all time leading scorer. The reason the two are treated differently has very little to do with race.
I think Sterling wouldn't be singled out as much if he wasn't black - some of our press has a racist agenda. Having said that if you feel you might be a target I'd avoid giving people the ammo.
Ozil's meeting with Erdogan was always going to be used against him if things turned sour
It’s an interesting perspective. I have to say I actually don’t think Sterling’s colour has anything to do with the criticism he’s faced (often unfair). I think it’s more that he’s seen as the archetypal spoilt kid that’s come through an academy - basically he’s “everything that’s wrong with the modern game” in the eyes of some fans/pundits. There aren’t many other players, white or black, that get the same sort of stick so I don’t think race can be the determining factor.
It's not. Ever since possibly Seaman, the English goalkeepers have taken the most stick imo, and they have been almost exclusively white.
I cannot personally understand why anyone would think that racism has anything to do with the reason that Sterling got the stick he did. Especially as, towards the end of the WC, most people could see what he was bringing to the team and I was seeing more praise for him than criticism, explain that one
Not a million miles wide of the mark, but you say yourself more praise than criticism, not no criticism. I suggest that some of those still criticising have a racist agenda. I think that because we are almost all decent human beings on here, that we cannot conceive of a situation where racism comes into some-ones thinking. se9addick wrote "I honestly don’t believe that Sterling gets abuse because he’s black or born in Jamaica.", I think he is 98% right, but there are a small number of people whose criticism is rooted in his race.
I remember when Chris Powell was sacked, there was a comment on friend's facebook page from a friend of his praising the decision to sack him and a racist overtone to the comment (I can't recall exactly what it was now). I messaged my friend and questioned what I assumed was a satirically racist comment from his friend, and said that perhaps he had gone too far with his "joke". My friend assured me that it was exactly what his friend meant, and that he didn't like SCP simply because he was black.
I was genuinely shocked as I didn't realise that such creatures existed in the modern world, especially among Addicks fans. I think that's why we collectively find it difficult to accept that there is a racist element in the criticism of Sterling, albeit from a small number of people...
Not criticising his reasoning at all, but I was wondering why he didn’t just quit at the time that it happened if it was that personal for him?
Otherwise it looks as though he just wanted to hang on for one final World Cup opportunity and deliberately picked a time after it to quit. Am I missing something here?
Think some of the criticism of Ozil and other ethnic minority players (particularly the Turkish Germans that met with Erdogan) after they were knocked out of the World Cup got quite nasty, hence this decision. I know the ethnicity of the Switzerland squad was a big talking point there, as I believe it was in Begium.
Seems to be something that’s happening more and more across Europe whereas in England there is no discussion at all about the ethnicity of the England team, it’s not even a talking point, which shows what a progressive and tolerant society we have compared to other places.
Tell that to Raheem. I heard some vile racist stuff aimed at him in the pub watching the World Cup.
Not criticising his reasoning at all, but I was wondering why he didn’t just quit at the time that it happened if it was that personal for him?
Otherwise it looks as though he just wanted to hang on for one final World Cup opportunity and deliberately picked a time after it to quit. Am I missing something here?
Think some of the criticism of Ozil and other ethnic minority players (particularly the Turkish Germans that met with Erdogan) after they were knocked out of the World Cup got quite nasty, hence this decision. I know the ethnicity of the Switzerland squad was a big talking point there, as I believe it was in Begium.
Seems to be something that’s happening more and more across Europe whereas in England there is no discussion at all about the ethnicity of the England team, it’s not even a talking point, which shows what a progressive and tolerant society we have compared to other places.
I dunno I've read in places where there are a few people who moan about Sterling being Jamaican and the fact that the England National Youth Teams appear to be "stealing" a load of Nigerian players blah blah blah
Really, not sure I’ve seen any of that (other than commenting that Sterling was born in Jamaica, as it’s interesting). Certainly nothing about nicking players from Nigeria.
Ademola Lookman | Dominic Solanke | Tammy Abraham can all represent Nigeria
Think its more the pathetic remarks on Comments Boards (not here) when we won the U17 and U20 World Cup saying that it was really Nigeria who won those World Cups rather than it being England
Lookman, Solanke, Abraham and Alli can choose to represent Nigeria through their parents maybe, but they were all born in England! Not quite sure why Nigerian fans would boo Alli for choosing to play for the country he was born in?! Odd.
I recall a second generation Irish friend (known to Addicks fans) being rather upset when an England born son of Irish parents chose to play for England rather than Ireland. Can't remember who the player was now.
James McLean is a player that makes no excuse for using the northern Irish fa youth system to his advantage then electing to play for the republic - me personally i find it a bit hypocritical - entitled to his thoughts on things but i think that is a bit cheeky.
happened a lot not so long ago when the bulk of the Irish team were made up from english lads with Irish parents.
the ozil thing i dont get personally because to me hes as German as i am english
players like shaquiri i do get as they were born in kosovo and until v recently they could not play for the country.
Ozil on the other hand could of elected to play for turkey if he wanted to.
James McLean is a player that makes no excuse for using the northern Irish fa youth system to his advantage then electing to play for the republic - me personally i find it a bit hypocritical - entitled to his thoughts on things but i think that is a bit cheeky.
happened a lot not so long ago when the bulk of the Irish team were made up from english lads with Irish parents.
the ozil thing i dont get personally because to me hes as German as i am english
players like shaquiri i do get as they were born in kosovo and until v recently they could not play for the country.
Ozil on the other hand could of elected to play for turkey if he wanted to.
Reminds me of secondary school when Ireland qualified for USA 94 and onwards. think the best/worst example was Clinton Morrison. Ridiculous
Not criticising his reasoning at all, but I was wondering why he didn’t just quit at the time that it happened if it was that personal for him?
Otherwise it looks as though he just wanted to hang on for one final World Cup opportunity and deliberately picked a time after it to quit. Am I missing something here?
Think some of the criticism of Ozil and other ethnic minority players (particularly the Turkish Germans that met with Erdogan) after they were knocked out of the World Cup got quite nasty, hence this decision. I know the ethnicity of the Switzerland squad was a big talking point there, as I believe it was in Begium.
Seems to be something that’s happening more and more across Europe whereas in England there is no discussion at all about the ethnicity of the England team, it’s not even a talking point, which shows what a progressive and tolerant society we have compared to other places.
Tell that to Raheem. I heard some vile racist stuff aimed at him in the pub watching the World Cup.
Not criticising his reasoning at all, but I was wondering why he didn’t just quit at the time that it happened if it was that personal for him?
Otherwise it looks as though he just wanted to hang on for one final World Cup opportunity and deliberately picked a time after it to quit. Am I missing something here?
Think some of the criticism of Ozil and other ethnic minority players (particularly the Turkish Germans that met with Erdogan) after they were knocked out of the World Cup got quite nasty, hence this decision. I know the ethnicity of the Switzerland squad was a big talking point there, as I believe it was in Begium.
Seems to be something that’s happening more and more across Europe whereas in England there is no discussion at all about the ethnicity of the England team, it’s not even a talking point, which shows what a progressive and tolerant society we have compared to other places.
Tell that to Raheem. I heard some vile racist stuff aimed at him in the pub watching the World Cup.
I don't doubt M.O. has been treated differently because of his heritage. We find it hard to believe here in Britain but most of our near European neighbour societies tolerate a far greater and more pernicious level of racism than has been acceptable here in generations.
Comments
The food's excellent, the people are friendly and the weather's fantastic.
I would add a note of caution however that neither my parents or grandparents are of Turkish descent.
I've never been to Germany.
Ozil's meeting with Erdogan was always going to be used against him if things turned sour
If a black player fails or behaves in an anti-social manner he's more likely to get singled out. I'd love to believe that centuries of racism in Britain have completely disappeared.
Sterling doesn't always help himself but he seems to me to cop more than his fair share of abuse.
I also haven't been to Germany.
Personally I was gripped reading it and wanted to get to the last para and him to say something on the lines of “I’m proud to play for my country, I will continue to give my all playing for my country, and i refuse to have my love for my country questioned by those with racist or political agendas. The good people of Germany must stand united against this rising unrest blah blah”
and turn the heat full circle upon the other side.
The German fans have voted him National team player of the year five times or so, so not like they have always had an agenda against him.
Another example of sportsmen being used for political capital.
If you watch Arsenal away, where they have to battle and dig in, you'll wonder if he's actually on the pitch half the time.
It'd be interesting to see what his stats are in home games v the ones he plays away.
I cannot personally understand why anyone would think that racism has anything to do with the reason that Sterling got the stick he did. Especially as, towards the end of the WC, most people could see what he was bringing to the team and I was seeing more praise for him than criticism, explain that one
Lookman, Solanke, Abraham and Alli can choose to represent Nigeria through their parents maybe, but they were all born in England! Not quite sure why Nigerian fans would boo Alli for choosing to play for the country he was born in?! Odd.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/harry-kane-raheem-sterling-paul-guest-media-daily-mail-tattoos-football-a8410161.html
I remember when Chris Powell was sacked, there was a comment on friend's facebook page from a friend of his praising the decision to sack him and a racist overtone to the comment (I can't recall exactly what it was now). I messaged my friend and questioned what I assumed was a satirically racist comment from his friend, and said that perhaps he had gone too far with his "joke". My friend assured me that it was exactly what his friend meant, and that he didn't like SCP simply because he was black.
I was genuinely shocked as I didn't realise that such creatures existed in the modern world, especially among Addicks fans. I think that's why we collectively find it difficult to accept that there is a racist element in the criticism of Sterling, albeit from a small number of people...
happened a lot not so long ago when the bulk of the Irish team were made up from english lads with Irish parents.
the ozil thing i dont get personally because to me hes as German as i am english
players like shaquiri i do get as they were born in kosovo and until v recently they could not play for the country.
Ozil on the other hand could of elected to play for turkey if he wanted to.