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The Dangers of a Cashless Society.

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    ...as an aside I recently turned down a £400 "discount" off some building work available if I agreed for him to split the invoice into two lumps. I presumed one was for the books and the other...

    My builder was not too impressed* but it's something I feel strongly about and just couldn't look myself in the mirror had I taken up his 'kind' offer.

    (*neither was my missus when I told her tbf)
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    I’m tapping contactless more and more, which is a shame as most of my savings for kids trips / holidays are built up from collecting £2 and 20p coins in my change

    Wait... what? Why only coins beginning with 2? Why not also collect the ones beginning with 1 and 5? Annnnnd... why exclude the 2ps?

    Perplexing! @AFKABartram

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    I’m tapping contactless more and more, which is a shame as most of my savings for kids trips / holidays are built up from collecting £2 and 20p coins in my change

    Wait... what? Why only coins beginning with 2? Why not also collect the ones beginning with 1 and 5? Annnnnd... why exclude the 2ps?

    Perplexing! @AFKABartram

    It's a well known fact that AFKA is a numberist.
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    Not really adding anything worthwhile, but i always go to the cash point and get cash out for the week. Also if a night out i will always get cash so i can control spending a bit more, no reason for it more habit and having money in front of me is more controlled than just constant taps of the card. Probably pay more in cash than card still
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    Rubbish article.

    Banks can't share your data with anyone.

    If the Govt is catching tax cheats, good.
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    seth plum said:

    WSS said:

    seth plum said:

    Let me get this right?
    Looking at the Monza thing it seems that you have to own an iphone and do everything via some things called apps.
    I imagine the Apple iPhone is used like an oyster card for all of your financials, and Monza has a website system that you have to learn before you use it. A daunting prospect for the tech clumsy like me.
    What about if you lose or misplace your mobile phone? Wouldn't you then be fecked every which way?
    As a side thing, Twitter and Facebook are private businesses, yet the world seems to assume we all buy from those businesses and structures so much on that assumption.

    You get a card with Monzo.

    A nice bright pink one.
    So Monza is an alternative to Barclaycard?
    It’s basically a current account with a debit card that has a really good app/features - that’s it.
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    I’m tapping contactless more and more, which is a shame as most of my savings for kids trips / holidays are built up from collecting £2 and 20p coins in my change

    There are a number of services that allow you do automatic savings. Some analyse your spending and calculate how much to put into savings account for you each week. Others round up your card spending to the nearest pound and store it away. I've been using one since the start of this year and it's very surprising how quickly it mounts up and it's especially good when you don't really miss it.
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    edited August 2018
    I’ve personally used cash no more than half a dozen times in the past year.

    It will happen to plastic cards as well soon enough - just as people got tired of carrying around notes and coins, they are getting tired of having a debit card, a credit card, a club card, some ID etc.

    If they haven’t already, companies are beginning to roll out their own app to make purchases through nowadays.

    Even further into the future is the Amazon Go store over here in the States where you don’t even need to go to a till to pay for your purchase. You just scan your phone on the way in and leave with whatever you want on the way out. It automatically sends the bill to your Amazon account. No cash, no plastic.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-go-store-no-cashiers-checkout-lines-seattle/
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    I have both Monzo & Starling which are similar. But still keep to First Direct as my main account and use AMEX wherever possible.
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    Even further into the future is the Amazon Go store over here in the States where you don’t even need to go to a till to pay for your purchase. You just scan your phone on the way in and leave with whatever you want on the way out. It automatically sends the bill to your Amazon account. No cash, no plastic.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/amazon-go-store-no-cashiers-checkout-lines-seattle/

    That's a bit of a bugger if you plan to do some shoplifting.

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    edited August 2018
    I tried using Monzo as a spending account, putting some cash in from the first direct account, and it didn't work, so going for one place for all transactions.

    Like how Monzo works, customer service isn't a massive issue for me, I don't think i've called my bank in 10 years, doing stuff on the app makes more sense for me. First Direct are great, but suffer a bit from the HSBC cruft which hold back the real innovations.

    Also, been to a few things at Monzo's HQ via work, and hugely impressed with the plans.
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    What happens if you lose your phone or it is stolen, and you don't know how to use apps? Do you have to alert people using said phone? Or online via said phone that has gone?
    Yes I know app stands for computer application, but I suspect they are only intuitive to the geek who made them, rely on internet connectivity, can be hacked and your details compromised.
    I suspect it may be a world of 'just' and 'obviously', where one is told you just have to do this or that, and obviously this or that happens.
    It is never ever simple, and never ever obvious.
    Cash seems so much more convenient that all these complicated systems, my old dad used to say 'if it ain't there, it can't go wrong'.
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    seth plum said:

    What happens if you lose your phone or it is stolen, and you don't know how to use apps? Do you have to alert people using said phone? Or online via said phone that has gone?
    Yes I know app stands for computer application, but I suspect they are only intuitive to the geek who made them, rely on internet connectivity, can be hacked and your details compromised.
    I suspect it may be a world of 'just' and 'obviously', where one is told you just have to do this or that, and obviously this or that happens.
    It is never ever simple, and never ever obvious.
    Cash seems so much more convenient that all these complicated systems, my old dad used to say 'if it ain't there, it can't go wrong'.

    If you lose your phone or it’s stolen you can still use your Monzo card in the exact same way, it doesn’t rely on a phone to be used.

    I have multiple cards on my phone that I use with Apple Pay, if my phone was stolen I wouldn’t be worried that someone could access these cards as it’s password/fingerprint protected and I could disable my phone within minutes online.
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    Jints said:

    Rubbish article.

    Banks can't share your data with anyone.

    Actually, they can. Loads of people can serve subject access requests, production orders etc. Banks comply.

    And every time you carry out a transaction key data gets transferred with it and, thanks to you and the UK government being very generous with your personal data, checking you and your credit background out is usually pretty straight forward.

    As a basic example, go on 192.com and type in your name and address. or sign up for a credit score. Firms like ID3Global can give a bit more and it’s what enables you to instantly sign up for a bank account etc when you go online.

    As for a previous comment by somebody about monitoring the huge volumes, It’s no different from your phone apps, Tesco club card etc which analyse where you go, what you buy and making suggestions to you. Your debit card and credit card is constantly being monitored, I’ve stood and watched the screens constantly flagging potential alerts all over the world as cards get used and trigger points are touched.

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    seth plum said:

    What happens if you lose your phone or it is stolen, and you don't know how to use apps? Do you have to alert people using said phone? Or online via said phone that has gone?
    Yes I know app stands for computer application, but I suspect they are only intuitive to the geek who made them, rely on internet connectivity, can be hacked and your details compromised.
    I suspect it may be a world of 'just' and 'obviously', where one is told you just have to do this or that, and obviously this or that happens.
    It is never ever simple, and never ever obvious.
    Cash seems so much more convenient that all these complicated systems, my old dad used to say 'if it ain't there, it can't go wrong'.

    If you lose your phone or it’s stolen you can still use your Monzo card in the exact same way, it doesn’t rely on a phone to be used.

    I have multiple cards on my phone that I use with Apple Pay, if my phone was stolen I wouldn’t be worried that someone could access these cards as it’s password/fingerprint protected and I could disable my phone within minutes online.
    Apple pay?
    Yet another thing.
    How do you get online to disable your phone if your phone is the way to get online?
    On another matter, so many places require a password then you retype it.
    Then you forget it!
    Or if your password is attached to your email address, you might have your work one, hotmail, your personal one. After three goes you're locked out.
    FFS life is too hard to go on living!
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    seth plum said:

    seth plum said:

    What happens if you lose your phone or it is stolen, and you don't know how to use apps? Do you have to alert people using said phone? Or online via said phone that has gone?
    Yes I know app stands for computer application, but I suspect they are only intuitive to the geek who made them, rely on internet connectivity, can be hacked and your details compromised.
    I suspect it may be a world of 'just' and 'obviously', where one is told you just have to do this or that, and obviously this or that happens.
    It is never ever simple, and never ever obvious.
    Cash seems so much more convenient that all these complicated systems, my old dad used to say 'if it ain't there, it can't go wrong'.

    If you lose your phone or it’s stolen you can still use your Monzo card in the exact same way, it doesn’t rely on a phone to be used.

    I have multiple cards on my phone that I use with Apple Pay, if my phone was stolen I wouldn’t be worried that someone could access these cards as it’s password/fingerprint protected and I could disable my phone within minutes online.
    Apple pay?
    Yet another thing.
    How do you get online to disable your phone if your phone is the way to get online?
    On another matter, so many places require a password then you retype it.
    Then you forget it!
    Or if your password is attached to your email address, you might have your work one, hotmail, your personal one. After three goes you're locked out.
    FFS life is too hard to go on living!
    Get LastPass.
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    seth plum said:

    seth plum said:

    What happens if you lose your phone or it is stolen, and you don't know how to use apps? Do you have to alert people using said phone? Or online via said phone that has gone?
    Yes I know app stands for computer application, but I suspect they are only intuitive to the geek who made them, rely on internet connectivity, can be hacked and your details compromised.
    I suspect it may be a world of 'just' and 'obviously', where one is told you just have to do this or that, and obviously this or that happens.
    It is never ever simple, and never ever obvious.
    Cash seems so much more convenient that all these complicated systems, my old dad used to say 'if it ain't there, it can't go wrong'.

    If you lose your phone or it’s stolen you can still use your Monzo card in the exact same way, it doesn’t rely on a phone to be used.

    I have multiple cards on my phone that I use with Apple Pay, if my phone was stolen I wouldn’t be worried that someone could access these cards as it’s password/fingerprint protected and I could disable my phone within minutes online.
    Apple pay?
    Yet another thing.
    How do you get online to disable your phone if your phone is the way to get online?
    On another matter, so many places require a password then you retype it.
    Then you forget it!
    Or if your password is attached to your email address, you might have your work one, hotmail, your personal one. After three goes you're locked out.
    FFS life is too hard to go on living!
    Best stick with cash, Seth.
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    seth plum said:

    What happens if you lose your phone or it is stolen, and you don't know how to use apps? Do you have to alert people using said phone? Or online via said phone that has gone?
    Yes I know app stands for computer application, but I suspect they are only intuitive to the geek who made them, rely on internet connectivity, can be hacked and your details compromised.
    I suspect it may be a world of 'just' and 'obviously', where one is told you just have to do this or that, and obviously this or that happens.
    It is never ever simple, and never ever obvious.
    Cash seems so much more convenient that all these complicated systems, my old dad used to say 'if it ain't there, it can't go wrong'.

    Have you actually tried using any apps, Seth?

    A huge amount of time and money goes into making them as easy-to-use as possible. The apps from big brands have had many hours of testing with real users.

    You might be surprised – most apps are no more complicated to use than this very site!
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    seth plum said:

    seth plum said:

    What happens if you lose your phone or it is stolen, and you don't know how to use apps? Do you have to alert people using said phone? Or online via said phone that has gone?
    Yes I know app stands for computer application, but I suspect they are only intuitive to the geek who made them, rely on internet connectivity, can be hacked and your details compromised.
    I suspect it may be a world of 'just' and 'obviously', where one is told you just have to do this or that, and obviously this or that happens.
    It is never ever simple, and never ever obvious.
    Cash seems so much more convenient that all these complicated systems, my old dad used to say 'if it ain't there, it can't go wrong'.

    If you lose your phone or it’s stolen you can still use your Monzo card in the exact same way, it doesn’t rely on a phone to be used.

    I have multiple cards on my phone that I use with Apple Pay, if my phone was stolen I wouldn’t be worried that someone could access these cards as it’s password/fingerprint protected and I could disable my phone within minutes online.
    Apple pay?
    Yet another thing.
    How do you get online to disable your phone if your phone is the way to get online?
    On another matter, so many places require a password then you retype it.
    Then you forget it!
    Or if your password is attached to your email address, you might have your work one, hotmail, your personal one. After three goes you're locked out.
    FFS life is too hard to go on living!
    Sometimes I even pay with my watch, Seth.

    Madness isn’t it :lol:
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    Katrien Meire heaven. She's in the wrong business.

    Marginalise the elderly or those who cannot afford the latest all singing all dancing mobile telephone.

    Elitist and dividing yet the irony is that the most strident advocates will regard themselves as socialist and inclusive.

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    seth plum said:

    seth plum said:

    What happens if you lose your phone or it is stolen, and you don't know how to use apps? Do you have to alert people using said phone? Or online via said phone that has gone?
    Yes I know app stands for computer application, but I suspect they are only intuitive to the geek who made them, rely on internet connectivity, can be hacked and your details compromised.
    I suspect it may be a world of 'just' and 'obviously', where one is told you just have to do this or that, and obviously this or that happens.
    It is never ever simple, and never ever obvious.
    Cash seems so much more convenient that all these complicated systems, my old dad used to say 'if it ain't there, it can't go wrong'.

    If you lose your phone or it’s stolen you can still use your Monzo card in the exact same way, it doesn’t rely on a phone to be used.

    I have multiple cards on my phone that I use with Apple Pay, if my phone was stolen I wouldn’t be worried that someone could access these cards as it’s password/fingerprint protected and I could disable my phone within minutes online.
    Apple pay?
    Yet another thing.
    How do you get online to disable your phone if your phone is the way to get online?
    On another matter, so many places require a password then you retype it.
    Then you forget it!
    Or if your password is attached to your email address, you might have your work one, hotmail, your personal one. After three goes you're locked out.
    FFS life is too hard to go on living!
    Sometimes I even pay with my watch, Seth.

    Madness isn’t it :lol:
    The date numbers on my watch go up to 39, then 0 before it goes to 1.
    Sheesh.
    Right now it is supposed to be the thirty seventh of (I presume) August.
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    LenGlover said:

    Katrien Meire heaven. She's in the wrong business.

    Marginalise the elderly or those who cannot afford the latest all singing all dancing mobile telephone.

    Elitist and dividing yet the irony is that the most strident advocates will regard themselves as socialist and inclusive.

    So the elderly don't have a bank card? WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE OLD PEOPLE????!!!!!
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    I use cashless/contact debit cards for day to day use .. small items, anything up to £30 .. credit cards for bigger stuff .. BUT when it comes to very BIG purchases, cash is still the KING of KINGS
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    seth plum said:

    seth plum said:

    What happens if you lose your phone or it is stolen, and you don't know how to use apps? Do you have to alert people using said phone? Or online via said phone that has gone?
    Yes I know app stands for computer application, but I suspect they are only intuitive to the geek who made them, rely on internet connectivity, can be hacked and your details compromised.
    I suspect it may be a world of 'just' and 'obviously', where one is told you just have to do this or that, and obviously this or that happens.
    It is never ever simple, and never ever obvious.
    Cash seems so much more convenient that all these complicated systems, my old dad used to say 'if it ain't there, it can't go wrong'.

    Have you actually tried using any apps, Seth?

    A huge amount of time and money goes into making them as easy-to-use as possible. The apps from big brands have had many hours of testing with real users.

    You might be surprised – most apps are no more complicated to use than this very site!
    To be fair, as soon as I see the word 'app' I am put off.

    If I open something on the computer what I want to see at the beginning is a question:
    'Are you an idiot', with a yes/no option.

    After opting for yes, I want a step by step guide, using simple words, where absolutely nothing is left out, nothing is assumed, and nothing is supposed to be 'obvious'.

    Like symbols. There are all kinds of symbols now, some appear everywhere and I suspect are universal, like the line through the open circle thingy which turns out to be on/off.

    If I use an app I want every single symbol explained as to what it is supposed to be.

    I often come across a symbol which is three parallel lines stacked horizontally on top of one another.
    I don't know what the bejaysus that is supposed to be, what it does, or what it means, and it is not obvious in the slightest.
    Then there are the three stacked parallel lines where the middle one is shorter, and there are dots before each line. Lovely, I imagine that means something to somebody. F*ck knows what though.

    Looking at my computer screen right now there is the outline symbol of a house, great, I don't know what it is for, or a sheet of paper bent over in the corner...like WTF is that? On another part of this screen there are three dots stacked above each other, oh really, is that a colon gone wrong?

    Don't even ask about the star and the magnifying glass at the end of the address bar.

    If people put time and money into making things, I conclude they must user test on themselves. If these companies want a real challenge they ought to test it on me.

    While I am in proper rant mode, Virgin sends me messages on my mobile telephone saying that my data has been rolled over.
    What the actual f*ck is that supposed to mean?
    Like my date of birth, employment record, council tax number or whatever has been moved somewhere, that is all data.

    I am going to make a cup of tea!
    Just press the buttons, what’s the worst that could happen! :lol:
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    seth plum said:

    seth plum said:

    What happens if you lose your phone or it is stolen, and you don't know how to use apps? Do you have to alert people using said phone? Or online via said phone that has gone?
    Yes I know app stands for computer application, but I suspect they are only intuitive to the geek who made them, rely on internet connectivity, can be hacked and your details compromised.
    I suspect it may be a world of 'just' and 'obviously', where one is told you just have to do this or that, and obviously this or that happens.
    It is never ever simple, and never ever obvious.
    Cash seems so much more convenient that all these complicated systems, my old dad used to say 'if it ain't there, it can't go wrong'.

    Have you actually tried using any apps, Seth?

    A huge amount of time and money goes into making them as easy-to-use as possible. The apps from big brands have had many hours of testing with real users.

    You might be surprised – most apps are no more complicated to use than this very site!
    To be fair, as soon as I see the word 'app' I am put off.

    If I open something on the computer what I want to see at the beginning is a question:
    'Are you an idiot', with a yes/no option.

    After opting for yes, I want a step by step guide, using simple words, where absolutely nothing is left out, nothing is assumed, and nothing is supposed to be 'obvious'.

    Like symbols. There are all kinds of symbols now, some appear everywhere and I suspect are universal, like the line through the open circle thingy which turns out to be on/off.

    If I use an app I want every single symbol explained as to what it is supposed to be.

    I often come across a symbol which is three parallel lines stacked horizontally on top of one another.
    I don't know what the bejaysus that is supposed to be, what it does, or what it means, and it is not obvious in the slightest.
    Then there are the three stacked parallel lines where the middle one is shorter, and there are dots before each line. Lovely, I imagine that means something to somebody. F*ck knows what though.

    Looking at my computer screen right now there is the outline symbol of a house, great, I don't know what it is for, or a sheet of paper bent over in the corner...like WTF is that? On another part of this screen there are three dots stacked above each other, oh really, is that a colon gone wrong?

    Don't even ask about the star and the magnifying glass at the end of the address bar.

    If people put time and money into making things, I conclude they must user test on themselves. If these companies want a real challenge they ought to test it on me.

    While I am in proper rant mode, Virgin sends me messages on my mobile telephone saying that my data has been rolled over.
    What the actual f*ck is that supposed to mean?
    Like my date of birth, employment record, council tax number or whatever has been moved somewhere, that is all data.

    I am going to make a cup of tea!
    Here you go @seth plum

    Just click the link below

    https://computerhope.com/issues/ch001801.htm
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Roland Out Forever!