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Buddhism

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  • BoysOwn
    BoysOwn Posts: 67
    BTW, so the Catholic church is full of sexual abusers, that makes Triratna ok?
    Look at what happened at Croydon LBC in the seventies to see how it filtered down and affected young men's lives.
  • sillav nitram
    sillav nitram Posts: 10,164
    BoysOwn said:
    Sangharakshitta groomed young men and sexually abused them. If you choose to follow his teachings, that's up to you. That behaviour has nothing to do with the Buddha's teaching. 
    And of course you can believe your own agenda but that’s not the story I’ve been told and I’ve no reason to doubt it @boysown
  • BoysOwn
    BoysOwn Posts: 67
    Sexual Abuse in Sangharakshita’s Order (Triratna, a.k.a. FWBO) | by Eisel Mazard | Medium
  • sillav nitram
    sillav nitram Posts: 10,164
    BoysOwn said:
    Sexual Abuse in Sangharakshita’s Order (Triratna, a.k.a. FWBO) | by Eisel Mazard | Medium
    Do you believe everything you read because that can be dangerous? All journalists good and bad have an agenda!
  • Arsenetatters
    Arsenetatters Posts: 5,976
    sillav nitram said:
    BoysOwn said:
    Anyone thinking of joining LBC may benefit from looking at their history and the behaviour of their founder:

    Sangharakshita - Wikipedia

    The most important teaching of the Buddha to me has been his final speech where he warned of creating a religion out of Buddhism. The Buddha was not a Buddhist.

    There are great interpretations of the teachings out there, Thich Nhat Hanh and many many others. I get a lot out of the secular Buddhism podcasts of Noah Rashita
    Secular Buddhism Podcast

    "Be a light unto yourself"
    Arsenetatters said:
    BoysOwn said:
    Anyone thinking of joining LBC may benefit from looking at their history and the behaviour of their founder:

    Sangharakshita - Wikipedia

    The most important teaching of the Buddha to me has been his final speech where he warned of creating a religion out of Buddhism. The Buddha was not a Buddhist.

    There are great interpretations of the teachings out there, Thich Nhat Hanh and many many others. I get a lot out of the secular Buddhism podcasts of Noah Rashita
    Secular Buddhism Podcast

    "Be a light unto yourself"
    As a member of Triratna, founded by Sangharakshitta, I go to the LBC and more local groups who are aligned with them. I like his teachings but the elephant in the room of his behaviour isn't often discussed. It bothers me in a way I can't explain, not knowing the facts. He was dead before I joined.

    @silavnitram@"sillav nitram" any thoughts?



    Yes, @arsenetatters it was something I found difficult to deal with initially when I read, “The Triratna Story” but if one wishes to trawl through the history of most religions and I don’t consider Buddhism a religion, it’s easy to find the skeletons in the closet, most notably, having been raised a Catholic, the Roman Catholic Church and no doubt others and yet millions ignore this fact and still go to church because I presume they’ve found a way to make peace with these facts within themselves.

    Triratna have been very upfront, in my experience of the misdemeanours, if in fact they were, of its founder.

    Equally it was in the orders infancy and one has to think of the period, when there had been no decisions/discussions around sexual conduct or celibacy and what happened was consensual, though he may have neglected to realise what his status and how it would impact on the members of the Sangha.

    Triratna also published a letter in the press acknowledging and explaining the events and their interpretation of what actually happened, rather than the hysterical sensationalism of the media who didn’t tell it like it really was, now there’s a surprise!

    I would equally encourage anyone who has doubts about Sangharakshitta to read his memoirs, which are phenomenal, of which I have and it may make you think differently about him, it has me and while I’m not happy about what happened, I am comfortable looking at the bigger picture of his legacy.

    I also know that Triratna now have things in place to hopefully prevent something like this happening again, which is more than one can say about the Roman Catholic Church!

    Thanks for this. I will read his memoirs.
  • sillav nitram
    sillav nitram Posts: 10,164
    BoysOwn said:
    BTW, so the Catholic church is full of sexual abusers, that makes Triratna ok?
    Look at what happened at Croydon LBC in the seventies to see how it filtered down and affected young men's lives.
    Did I say that, no! 

    So don’t try and put words into my mouth. I just tried to acknowledge that all religions have their dark secrets but those who still follow those particular teachings have to find a way of making peace in themselves, if they want to continue practising and not tar everyone with the same brush.

    I’ve been part of the Triratna Order for 8 years and I’ve spoken to senior order members whose opinions I trust and I’m comfortable with their explanation and understanding of what actually happened, rather than those who paint a far from accurate picture.
  • sillav nitram
    sillav nitram Posts: 10,164
    edited January 13
    And of course you inevitably get juveniles like @valleygary who deliberately antagonise situations by putting  lol, without anything to go on apart from their own ignorance.
  • sillav nitram
    sillav nitram Posts: 10,164
    sillav nitram said:
    And of course you inevitably get juveniles like @valleygary who deliberately antagonise situations by putting  lol, without anything to go on apart from their own ignorance.
    Didn’t take long Gary and how predictable!
  • BoysOwn
    BoysOwn Posts: 67
    Sexual Abuse in Sangharakshita’s Order (Triratna, a.k.a. FWBO) | by Eisel Mazard | Medium
  • ValleyGary
    ValleyGary Posts: 37,982
    edited January 13
    sillav nitram said:
    sillav nitram said:
    And of course you inevitably get juveniles like @valleygary who deliberately antagonise situations by putting  lol, without anything to go on apart from their own ignorance.
    Didn’t take long Gary and how predictable!
    You sure are aggy for a Buddhist!
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  • BoysOwn
    BoysOwn Posts: 67
    sillav, you are a member of a cult which is exactly what the Buddha warned against. I wish you well on your path my friend.
  • Arsenetatters
    Arsenetatters Posts: 5,976
    BoysOwn said:
    sillav, you are a member of a cult which is exactly what the Buddha warned against. I wish you well on your path my friend.
    I don’t agree, what makes you think it is?
  • BoysOwn
    BoysOwn Posts: 67
    The person who created the movement behaved in a way that was completely in conflict of his presenting belief system. He created an organisation with skewed ethics to suit his sexual desires. Namely that men should have sex with each other. This has nothing to do with the teachings of the Buddha. There are many people above you making huge amounts of money from this organisation. If you understood the first thing about Buddhism, you would understand the need to not take anyone's teachings, not even Buddha's, at face value, but to weigh them up against your own life experience and make your own judgement.
  • Arsenetatters
    Arsenetatters Posts: 5,976
    BoysOwn said:
    The person who created the movement behaved in a way that was completely in conflict of his presenting belief system. He created an organisation with skewed ethics to suit his sexual desires. Namely that men should have sex with each other. This has nothing to do with the teachings of the Buddha. There are many people above you making huge amounts of money from this organisation. If you understood the first thing about Buddhism, you would understand the need to not take anyone's teachings, not even Buddha's, at face value, but to weigh them up against your own life experience and make your own judgement.
    Blimey. I’ve no idea where you got that idea from!
  • sillav nitram
    sillav nitram Posts: 10,164
    BoysOwn said:
    sillav, you are a member of a cult which is exactly what the Buddha warned against. I wish you well on your path my friend.
    BoysOwn said:
    The person who created the movement behaved in a way that was completely in conflict of his presenting belief system. He created an organisation with skewed ethics to suit his sexual desires. Namely that men should have sex with each other. This has nothing to do with the teachings of the Buddha. There are many people above you making huge amounts of money from this organisation. If you understood the first thing about Buddhism, you would understand the need to not take anyone's teachings, not even Buddha's, at face value, but to weigh them up against your own life experience and make your own judgement.
    But you’re tarring everybody within Triratna with the same brush and that is lacking in understanding, compassion and most un Buddhist like.

    Sangharakshitta died a number of years ago and those who were involved in the Croydon scandal are no longer around.

    You can’t blame everyone for others behaviour, I can also assure it’s not a cult and I have direct experience of Triratna, do you?

    I think you’ve been reading too much fiction, no disrespect but if you believe what you say, try it out and see if your arguments and views stand up to scrutiny?


  • BoysOwn
    BoysOwn Posts: 67
    Arsenetatters said:
    BoysOwn said:
    The person who created the movement behaved in a way that was completely in conflict of his presenting belief system. He created an organisation with skewed ethics to suit his sexual desires. Namely that men should have sex with each other. This has nothing to do with the teachings of the Buddha. There are many people above you making huge amounts of money from this organisation. If you understood the first thing about Buddhism, you would understand the need to not take anyone's teachings, not even Buddha's, at face value, but to weigh them up against your own life experience and make your own judgement.
    Blimey. I’ve no idea where you got that i
  • BoysOwn
    BoysOwn Posts: 67
    May all beings be peaceful 
    May all beings be happy
    May all beings be safe
    May all beings awaken to the light
    Of their true nature
    May all beings be free
  • sillav nitram
    sillav nitram Posts: 10,164
    BoysOwn said:
    The person who created the movement behaved in a way that was completely in conflict of his presenting belief system. He created an organisation with skewed ethics to suit his sexual desires. Namely that men should have sex with each other. This has nothing to do with the teachings of the Buddha. There are many people above you making huge amounts of money from this organisation. If you understood the first thing about Buddhism, you would understand the need to not take anyone's teachings, not even Buddha's, at face value, but to weigh them up against your own life experience and make your own judgement.
    Sangharakshitta created Triratna to appeal to a western audience and therefore hoping to create a movement that westerners could relate to, rather than following an ancient philosophy and in truth he doesn’t veer off that path much. Buddhism like all orthodox religions has to evolve, that’s all they’ve done, as far as I can see.

    As far as I’m aware or certainly not within Triratna there’s no precept saying, one must abstain from sex with the opposite sex or the same sex, it makes a suggestion that it may be better to refrain but it isn’t a law.


  • BoysOwn
    BoysOwn Posts: 67
    sillav nitram said:
    BoysOwn said:
    The person who created the movement behaved in a way that was completely in conflict of his presenting belief system. He created an organisation with skewed ethics to suit his sexual desires. Namely that men should have sex with each other. This has nothing to do with the teachings of the Buddha. There are many people above you making huge amounts of money from this organisation. If you understood the first thing about Buddhism, you would understand the need to not take anyone's teachings, not even Buddha's, at face value, but to weigh them up against your own life experience and make your own judgement.
    Sangharakshitta created Triratna to appeal to a western audience and therefore hoping to create a movement that westerners could relate to, rather than following an ancient philosophy and in truth he doesn’t veer off that path much. Buddhism like all orthodox religions has to evolve, that’s all they’ve done, as far as I can see.

    As far as I’m aware or certainly not within Triratna there’s no precept saying, one must abstain from sex with the opposite sex or the same sex, it makes a suggestion that it may be better to refrain but it isn’t a law.


    Ok, I understand your position and have found your opinion interesting and it has given me much to think about. Thanks sillav. I wish you well my friend.
  • BoysOwn
    BoysOwn Posts: 67
    Hang on, what? So because the Buddha didn't state a precept directly against grooming and buggering young men it's ok within perverse Triratna thinking?
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  • BoysOwn
    BoysOwn Posts: 67
    sillav nitram said:
    BoysOwn said:
    sillav, you are a member of a cult which is exactly what the Buddha warned against. I wish you well on your path my friend.
    BoysOwn said:
    The person who created the movement behaved in a way that was completely in conflict of his presenting belief system. He created an organisation with skewed ethics to suit his sexual desires. Namely that men should have sex with each other. This has nothing to do with the teachings of the Buddha. There are many people above you making huge amounts of money from this organisation. If you understood the first thing about Buddhism, you would understand the need to not take anyone's teachings, not even Buddha's, at face value, but to weigh them up against your own life experience and make your own judgement.
    But you’re tarring everybody within Triratna with the same brush and that is lacking in understanding, compassion and most un Buddhist like.

    Sangharakshitta died a number of years ago and those who were involved in the Croydon scandal are no longer around.

    You can’t blame everyone for others behaviour, I can also assure it’s not a cult and I have direct experience of Triratna, do you?

    I think you’ve been reading too much fiction, no disrespect but if you believe what you say, try it out and see if your arguments and views stand up to scrutiny?


    Oh yeah, BTW have had experience of LBC in my early days when exploring Buddhism. Bethnal Green and St Martin's.
  • BoysOwn
    BoysOwn Posts: 67
    But you’re tarring everybody within Triratna with the same brush and that is lacking in understanding, compassion and most un Buddhist like.

    Well said. Point taken and I agree with what you are saying there.
  • Arsenetatters
    Arsenetatters Posts: 5,976
    BoysOwn said:
    sillav nitram said:
    BoysOwn said:
    sillav, you are a member of a cult which is exactly what the Buddha warned against. I wish you well on your path my friend.
    BoysOwn said:
    The person who created the movement behaved in a way that was completely in conflict of his presenting belief system. He created an organisation with skewed ethics to suit his sexual desires. Namely that men should have sex with each other. This has nothing to do with the teachings of the Buddha. There are many people above you making huge amounts of money from this organisation. If you understood the first thing about Buddhism, you would understand the need to not take anyone's teachings, not even Buddha's, at face value, but to weigh them up against your own life experience and make your own judgement.
    But you’re tarring everybody within Triratna with the same brush and that is lacking in understanding, compassion and most un Buddhist like.

    Sangharakshitta died a number of years ago and those who were involved in the Croydon scandal are no longer around.

    You can’t blame everyone for others behaviour, I can also assure it’s not a cult and I have direct experience of Triratna, do you?

    I think you’ve been reading too much fiction, no disrespect but if you believe what you say, try it out and see if your arguments and views stand up to scrutiny?


    Oh yeah, BTW have had experience of LBC in my early days when exploring Buddhism. Bethnal Green and St Martin's.
    Out of interest did you move to another group or just follow your own path?
  • BoysOwn
    BoysOwn Posts: 67
    I attended a Zendo for a while and went to the Buddhist Society for a few years. But I've mostly followed my own path. The teachings helped me through a very dark time in my life. I lean towards Zen I guess. I'd like to say I do appreciate discourse with other people who respect Buddhism and apologise if I've made you feel uncomfortable with my opinions.
  • Arsenetatters
    Arsenetatters Posts: 5,976
    BoysOwn said:
    I attended a Zendo for a while and went to the Buddhist Society for a few years. But I've mostly followed my own path. The teachings helped me through a very dark time in my life. I lean towards Zen I guess. I'd like to say I do appreciate discourse with other people who respect Buddhism and apologise if I've made you feel uncomfortable with my opinions.
    No need to apologise. It’s good to discuss things openly and I appreciate you giving your take on it. 
    I came to Buddhism via secular mindfulness and it has been a massive contributing factor in keeping me out of psychiatric hospitals for just over 10 years now. 
  • sillav nitram
    sillav nitram Posts: 10,164
    BoysOwn said:
    Hang on, what? So because the Buddha didn't state a precept directly against grooming and buggering young men it's ok within perverse Triratna thinking?
    Hang on a mo, you seem to be going from one extreme to another!

    No way did I say it’s ok to abuse or bugger people or have sex without consent!

    I said within Triratna there’s no precept that says one needs to be celibate or refrain from having sex. If adults are consenting then it’s their choice.

    I’ll repeat again, the Precepts are suggestions and not laws.
  • sillav nitram
    sillav nitram Posts: 10,164
    ValleyGary said:
    sillav nitram said:
    sillav nitram said:
    And of course you inevitably get juveniles like @valleygary who deliberately antagonise situations by putting  lol, without anything to go on apart from their own ignorance.
    Didn’t take long Gary and how predictable!
    You sure are aggy for a Buddhist!
    And who was the protagonist?

    Being a Buddhist doesn’t mean one has to be meek, mild and submissive. Cast your mind back to the Buddhist Monks who set themselves alight as a protest.

    One doesn’t just sit back at injustice.
  • Wheresmeticket
    Wheresmeticket Posts: 17,304
    2500 years of practice based on teaching offered in verbal form, and not written down for 500 years. There are a few precepts but we don't really know which are "authentic". However it seems reasonable to assume kindness and discipline, mistrust of attachment, ignorance and aversion may be key.
  • BoysOwn
    BoysOwn Posts: 67
    The Buddha taught that desire is the root of suffering. I find it difficult to understand why Sangharakshitta is held in such high esteem when he was unable, or unwilling, to control his desires which inevitably led to the suffering of others.
  • BoysOwn
    BoysOwn Posts: 67
    One doesn’t just sit back at injustice

    I agree, and that's why I have brought up this issue.

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