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Ex Players as managers

paulie8290paulie8290
in General Charlton
We are playing the best football we have played since SCP left and its no surprise

Since then we have had
Riga
Peeters
Luzon
Fraeye
Robinson.

None of these knew the club properly or understood the fans properly.


Bowyer is Charlton like SCP was, they get the club, they know the club inside out.

I honestly think other clubs should do the same, ex players who know the club inside out who know what the fans want.
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Comments

  • paulie8290paulie8290
    Also as much as I hate to say it Robinson deserves credit.

    Bowyer was enjoying fishing and had no plans to return to football when he got Robinsons call to become assitant.

    If it wasnt for Robinson I dread to think what shit we would have as manager right now, but I doubt it would be soneone who knows the club and is passionate about the club
  • cafcfan1990cafcfan1990
    paulie8290 said:

    We are playing the best football we have played since SCP left and its no surprise

    Since then we have had
    Riga
    Peeters
    Luzon
    Fraeye
    Robinson.

    None of these knew the club properly or understood the fans properly.


    Bowyer is Charlton like SCP was, they get the club, they know the club inside out.

    I honestly think other clubs should do the same, ex players who know the club inside out who know what the fans want.

    I don’t agree, certainly don’t think Liverpool or Man City mind that Klopp and Guardiola didn’t play for them.

    Think people go on about this too much. The issue with Fraeye wasn’t because he didn’t know the club, it was because he didn’t know how to be a football manager.
  • paulie8290paulie8290
    cafcfan1990 said:

    paulie8290 said:

    We are playing the best football we have played since SCP left and its no surprise

    Since then we have had
    Riga
    Peeters
    Luzon
    Fraeye
    Robinson.

    None of these knew the club properly or understood the fans properly.


    Bowyer is Charlton like SCP was, they get the club, they know the club inside out.

    I honestly think other clubs should do the same, ex players who know the club inside out who know what the fans want.

    I don’t agree, certainly don’t think Liverpool or Man City mind that Klopp and Guardiola didn’t play for them.

    Think people go on about this too much. The issue with Fraeye wasn’t because he didn’t know the club, it was because he didn’t know how to be a football manager.
    Sorry I meant in the lower leagues.

    In the top flight when u can spend what u want and get anyone u want its different.

    But in the lower leagues working on a budget it seems to work better if you know the club and are passionate about the club
  • paulie8290paulie8290
    Chizz said:

    So, the best managers are always ex-players, except for when sometimes they're not. Does that sum it up?

    When did I say that
  • TalBHAndreBATalBHAndreBA
    paulie8290 said:

    We are playing the best football we have played since SCP left and its no surprise

    Since then we have had
    Riga
    Peeters
    Luzon
    Fraeye
    Robinson.

    None of these knew the club properly or understood the fans properly.


    Bowyer is Charlton like SCP was, they get the club, they know the club inside out.

    I honestly think other clubs should do the same, ex players who know the club inside out who know what the fans want.

    How could you leave Big Russell Slade off your list!
  • paulie8290paulie8290
    Its not just at Charlton either

    You ask @Big_Bad_World or @MillwallFan I am sure they will say Harris is there best manager lf recent years

    Neil Ardley was the same at AFC Wimbledon for a few years(his issue was not replacing Taylor this summer)
  • killerandflashkillerandflash
    It's always slightly puzzled me when I hear comments along the lines of "he understands the club" or "the fans of this club expect a certain type of player or football" as if there were massive differences between us and other mid sized clubs (Pompey, Ipswich, Bristol City, Forest etc) or that there were some supporters who don't want to see attacking football, and actually prefer to see half-arsed prima donnas strolling around the pitch!
  • SporadicAddickSporadicAddick
    paulie8290 said:

    Chizz said:

    So, the best managers are always ex-players, except for when sometimes they're not. Does that sum it up?

    When did I say that
    you didn't, some posters just have a certain style....
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  • EveshamAddickEveshamAddick
    I’m not sure it’s about being an ex player per se....Lennie Lawrence for example. But “getting the club “ is key.

    So with Robinson for example it was all about him. Even bringing back Bowyer was, I think, him trying to make himself look good-“I’ve brought back an explayer!”
  • cafcfan1990cafcfan1990
    paulie8290 said:

    cafcfan1990 said:

    paulie8290 said:

    We are playing the best football we have played since SCP left and its no surprise

    Since then we have had
    Riga
    Peeters
    Luzon
    Fraeye
    Robinson.

    None of these knew the club properly or understood the fans properly.


    Bowyer is Charlton like SCP was, they get the club, they know the club inside out.

    I honestly think other clubs should do the same, ex players who know the club inside out who know what the fans want.

    I don’t agree, certainly don’t think Liverpool or Man City mind that Klopp and Guardiola didn’t play for them.

    Think people go on about this too much. The issue with Fraeye wasn’t because he didn’t know the club, it was because he didn’t know how to be a football manager.
    Sorry I meant in the lower leagues.

    In the top flight when u can spend what u want and get anyone u want its different.

    But in the lower leagues working on a budget it seems to work better if you know the club and are passionate about the club
    In can certainly work and in modern day football with foreign ownership having that sort of manager with connections can help.

    But Bowyer rejoined us 20 years after leaving us. Jackson yes but not Bowyer, it’s a confirmed different club.
  • soapboxsamsoapboxsam
    edited December 2018
    Chizz said:

    So, the best managers are always ex-players, except for when sometimes they're not. Does that sum it up?

    In CAFC case yes.
    Curbs and Bows were/are good fits.

    Solskjaer and Mike Phelan knowing United's DNA with help in the interim.

    Some ex players will just make lousy managers because they can't get the players to gel or play to a pattern for that division.

    So it's a Yes, No and sometimes from me.
  • WheresmeticketWheresmeticket
    paulie8290 said:

    We are playing the best football we have played since SCP left and its no surprise

    Since then we have had
    Riga
    Peeters
    Luzon
    Fraeye
    Robinson.

    None of these knew the club properly or understood the fans properly.


    Bowyer is Charlton like SCP was, they get the club, they know the club inside out.

    I honestly think other clubs should do the same, ex players who know the club inside out who know what the fans want.

    It's an interesting point and it seems to have worked for us.

    Then again you look at Keegan at NUFC for instance or Curbs at Wet Spam...
  • paulie8290paulie8290
    Wheresmeticket? said:

    paulie8290 said:

    We are playing the best football we have played since SCP left and its no surprise

    Since then we have had
    Riga
    Peeters
    Luzon
    Fraeye
    Robinson.

    None of these knew the club properly or understood the fans properly.


    Bowyer is Charlton like SCP was, they get the club, they know the club inside out.

    I honestly think other clubs should do the same, ex players who know the club inside out who know what the fans want.

    It's an interesting point and it seems to have worked for us.

    Then again you look at Keegan at NUFC for instance or Curbs at Wet Spam...
    Both premier league clubs with money.

    As I said further down, Its lower league teams that I think this works best for
  • se9addickse9addick
    Of all the attributes that a manager needs to have to be successful I think “passion” (whatever that really means) is pretty low down the list compared to tactical nous, man management skills, in game management and capability in the transfer market and those have nothing to do with being a former player.

    Nice thought though.
  • killerandflashkillerandflash
    paulie8290 said:

    Its not just at Charlton either

    You ask @Big_Bad_World or @MillwallFan I am sure they will say Harris is there best manager lf recent years

    Neil Ardley was the same at AFC Wimbledon for a few years(his issue was not replacing Taylor this summer)

    But then Jackett also did a really good job for Millwall, and is doing an excellent job at Pompey now
  • ChizzChizz
    paulie8290 said:

    Chizz said:

    So, the best managers are always ex-players, except for when sometimes they're not. Does that sum it up?

    When did I say that
    You suggested that "ex players who know the club inside out who know what the fans want" can result in teams "playing the best football" in the first post. I took that two mean that the best managers (ie the ones who get the team playing the best football) are those who know the club inside out (presumably due to being former players). This seemed to give rise to the assertion that the best players are always ex-players - given that they are the ones who can be described as knowing the club inside out).

    You then said that "Robinson deserves credit". Robinson is not an ex-Charlton player. This gives rise to the conclusion that you're suggesting that some of the better Charlton managers are not ex-Charlton players.

    Overall, you're giving the impression that your view is that the best managers are always ex-players, except for someimes when they're not". If that *is* your assertion, I agree with it, completely. Two of Charlton's best managers were also good Charlton players - Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell. Two more of Charlton's best managers weren't - Jimmy Seed and Lennie Lawrence.

    Although, of course, one of Charlton's worst managers was an ex-player (Alan Pardew). And several of them weren't.
  • paulie8290paulie8290
    Chizz said:

    paulie8290 said:

    Chizz said:

    So, the best managers are always ex-players, except for when sometimes they're not. Does that sum it up?

    When did I say that
    You suggested that "ex players who know the club inside out who know what the fans want" can result in teams "playing the best football" in the first post. I took that two mean that the best managers (ie the ones who get the team playing the best football) are those who know the club inside out (presumably due to being former players). This seemed to give rise to the assertion that the best players are always ex-players - given that they are the ones who can be described as knowing the club inside out).

    You then said that "Robinson deserves credit". Robinson is not an ex-Charlton player. This gives rise to the conclusion that you're suggesting that some of the better Charlton managers are not ex-Charlton players.

    Overall, you're giving the impression that your view is that the best managers are always ex-players, except for someimes when they're not". If that *is* your assertion, I agree with it, completely. Two of Charlton's best managers were also good Charlton players - Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell. Two more of Charlton's best managers weren't - Jimmy Seed and Lennie Lawrence.

    Although, of course, one of Charlton's worst managers was an ex-player (Alan Pardew). And several of them weren't.
    Robinson deserves Credit only for bringing Lee back to football, in no way would i ever consider him as a good Charlton manager
  • ChizzChizz
    paulie8290 said:

    Chizz said:

    paulie8290 said:

    Chizz said:

    So, the best managers are always ex-players, except for when sometimes they're not. Does that sum it up?

    When did I say that
    You suggested that "ex players who know the club inside out who know what the fans want" can result in teams "playing the best football" in the first post. I took that two mean that the best managers (ie the ones who get the team playing the best football) are those who know the club inside out (presumably due to being former players). This seemed to give rise to the assertion that the best players are always ex-players - given that they are the ones who can be described as knowing the club inside out).

    You then said that "Robinson deserves credit". Robinson is not an ex-Charlton player. This gives rise to the conclusion that you're suggesting that some of the better Charlton managers are not ex-Charlton players.

    Overall, you're giving the impression that your view is that the best managers are always ex-players, except for someimes when they're not". If that *is* your assertion, I agree with it, completely. Two of Charlton's best managers were also good Charlton players - Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell. Two more of Charlton's best managers weren't - Jimmy Seed and Lennie Lawrence.

    Although, of course, one of Charlton's worst managers was an ex-player (Alan Pardew). And several of them weren't.
    Robinson deserves Credit only for bringing Lee back to football, in no way would i ever consider him as a good Charlton manager
    Fair enough. Would you consider any other non ex-players as being good Charlton managers?
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  • paulie8290paulie8290
    Chizz said:

    paulie8290 said:

    Chizz said:

    paulie8290 said:

    Chizz said:

    So, the best managers are always ex-players, except for when sometimes they're not. Does that sum it up?

    When did I say that
    You suggested that "ex players who know the club inside out who know what the fans want" can result in teams "playing the best football" in the first post. I took that two mean that the best managers (ie the ones who get the team playing the best football) are those who know the club inside out (presumably due to being former players). This seemed to give rise to the assertion that the best players are always ex-players - given that they are the ones who can be described as knowing the club inside out).

    You then said that "Robinson deserves credit". Robinson is not an ex-Charlton player. This gives rise to the conclusion that you're suggesting that some of the better Charlton managers are not ex-Charlton players.

    Overall, you're giving the impression that your view is that the best managers are always ex-players, except for someimes when they're not". If that *is* your assertion, I agree with it, completely. Two of Charlton's best managers were also good Charlton players - Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell. Two more of Charlton's best managers weren't - Jimmy Seed and Lennie Lawrence.

    Although, of course, one of Charlton's worst managers was an ex-player (Alan Pardew). And several of them weren't.
    Robinson deserves Credit only for bringing Lee back to football, in no way would i ever consider him as a good Charlton manager
    Fair enough. Would you consider any other non ex-players as being good Charlton managers?
    In my time, the only one I guess would be Phil Parkinson.
  • se9addickse9addick
    paulie8290 said:

    Chizz said:

    paulie8290 said:

    Chizz said:

    paulie8290 said:

    Chizz said:

    So, the best managers are always ex-players, except for when sometimes they're not. Does that sum it up?

    When did I say that
    You suggested that "ex players who know the club inside out who know what the fans want" can result in teams "playing the best football" in the first post. I took that two mean that the best managers (ie the ones who get the team playing the best football) are those who know the club inside out (presumably due to being former players). This seemed to give rise to the assertion that the best players are always ex-players - given that they are the ones who can be described as knowing the club inside out).

    You then said that "Robinson deserves credit". Robinson is not an ex-Charlton player. This gives rise to the conclusion that you're suggesting that some of the better Charlton managers are not ex-Charlton players.

    Overall, you're giving the impression that your view is that the best managers are always ex-players, except for someimes when they're not". If that *is* your assertion, I agree with it, completely. Two of Charlton's best managers were also good Charlton players - Alan Curbishley and Chris Powell. Two more of Charlton's best managers weren't - Jimmy Seed and Lennie Lawrence.

    Although, of course, one of Charlton's worst managers was an ex-player (Alan Pardew). And several of them weren't.
    Robinson deserves Credit only for bringing Lee back to football, in no way would i ever consider him as a good Charlton manager
    Fair enough. Would you consider any other non ex-players as being good Charlton managers?
    In my time, the only one I guess would be Phil Parkinson.
    Very, very harsh on Kevin Nugent!
  • Richard JRichard J
    Don't forget Mike Bailey in this debate. He still attends most home matches and certainly gets Charlton.

    The achievement of his 1980/81 promotion is underrated in my view.

    He literally took the worst performing second tier side and lead it to promotion the following season. The only signing he made was Terry Naylor halfway through the season and I guess he also benefitted from the emerging Paul Walsh

  • StarinnaddickStarinnaddick
    Richard J said:

    Don't forget Mike Bailey in this debate. He still attends most home matches and certainly gets Charlton.

    The achievement of his 1980/81 promotion is underrated in my view.

    He literally took the worst performing second tier side and lead it to promotion the following season. The only signing he made was Terry Naylor halfway through the season and I guess he also benefitted from the emerging Paul Walsh

    We should nt forget Eddie Firmani either.
  • ElfsborgAddickElfsborgAddick
    I understand what Paulie is getting at, however, Charlton are a totally different club from when Bowyer left us in '96.

    Bowyer has started off very well so hopefully this will be the start of a successful managerial career with us.
  • cafcfan1990cafcfan1990
    ElfsborgAddick said:

    I understand what Paulie is getting at, however, Charlton are a totally different club from when Bowyer left us in '96.

    Bowyer has started off very well so hopefully this will be the start of a successful managerial career with us.

    This. I do understand what Paulie is getting at and I do partly agree. I think it has really helped with Powell and Bowyer that the club was in a poor position at the times of appointment. With Murray skint, we weren't going anyway and although the money helped, the popular appointment of Powell certainly provided a better atmosphere. Same with Bowyer under Roland. But if Bowyer hadn't got results, he would have been out swiftly because of his lack of experience and there would have been a lot of doubts over him. For me, having Jackson alongside him who really does know the present day club is massive. I think the fact that he has been here for all of Roland's reign will really rub off on the players morale.

    It's not necessarily the answer though. Appoint an ex-manager and do well. Portsmouth and Sunderland were in a bad way and it's not ex-players that have turned them around, nor at Leeds.
  • golfaddickgolfaddick
    Even though I loved LB as a player I'd hardly call him "Charlton" like SCP. He played around 50 games for us & left after a season & a bit. I can't be arsed to look at his wiki page but I reckon he played just as many times for Brum or even Ipswich.

    I actually started a thread about this a couple of seasons ago asking what ex player you would want to see manage us seeing as the only ones ever "Good enough" to manage us have to be ex-players. At that time LB was in France & was on no-ones radar.
  • paulie8290paulie8290
    golfaddick said:

    Even though I loved LB as a player I'd hardly call him "Charlton" like SCP. He played around 50 games for us & left after a season & a bit. I can't be arsed to look at his wiki page but I reckon he played just as many times for Brum or even Ipswich.

    I actually started a thread about this a couple of seasons ago asking what ex player you would want to see manage us seeing as the only ones ever "Good enough" to manage us have to be ex-players. At that time LB was in France & was on no-ones radar.

    Did he not Join us as a Schoolboy tho.

    May not have played many games but was at the club for a few years still at youth level
  • ChizzChizz
    Some of the football Charlton have played over the last few years would have been improved if we'd had ex-managers as players.
  • MuttleyCAFCMuttleyCAFC
    Richard J said:

    Don't forget Mike Bailey in this debate. He still attends most home matches and certainly gets Charlton.

    The achievement of his 1980/81 promotion is underrated in my view.

    He literally took the worst performing second tier side and lead it to promotion the following season. The only signing he made was Terry Naylor halfway through the season and I guess he also benefitted from the emerging Paul Walsh

    Paul Walsh was one hell of a player. I feel he never reached his full potential despite having a good career.
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