Just saw this on Social Media... Probably helps a bit too if its true
I think you have probably hit on a big reason, if not the reason. You have more chance of finding a strong manager from a bigger pool of them. Surely, this is something a rich FA can address.
I would say a fair few managers from abroad were not great players. Guardiola was, granted, but many others weren't. That may be an example were the bigger pool works as it is probably easier for the Rooneys and Lampards to get their badges but what if there is a Joe Bloggs with all the attributes out there?
If it is more accesable, there may be men/women in their 20s who missed out on a pro career due to injury or just not quite making it, who could gather a lot of learning. We sort of consider going into coaching as something that is done after a football career.
We have too many crap foreign managers being employed by too many owners.
Of course it doesn’t help that a great number of these owners don’t have a clue how English football clubs should be run.
Been saying this for years and now it is too late to turn things around.
The way you've phrased that, it feels like you mean they're crap because they're foreign. Because they're certainly not crap in any other meaningful sense, the occasional Fraeye aside
We have too many crap foreign managers being employed by too many owners.
Of course it doesn’t help that a great number of these owners don’t have a clue how English football clubs should be run.
Been saying this for years and now it is too late to turn things around.
Yeah give me more Steven Gerrard and Paul Ince type managers any day
You're a top 10 Premier League club in search of a new manager and hoping to push on. Do you:
A) Employee Francesco Farioli
or
B ) Employee Tony Pulis
If you don't have the flair players to push on you would be better to have Tony Pulis or a manager who will play a rigid way. Croydon Wroy was the same with his repetitive drills in training which was ok at Fulham and Palace but Liverpool needed a system to benefit their attacking intent and that's why Klopp was a better fit in Scouse land.
We have too many crap foreign managers being employed by too many owners.
Of course it doesn’t help that a great number of these owners don’t have a clue how English football clubs should be run.
Been saying this for years and now it is too late to turn things around.
Yeah give me more Steven Gerrard and Paul Ince type managers any day
You're a top 10 Premier League club in search of a new manager and hoping to push on. Do you:
A) Employee Francesco Farioli
or
B ) Employee Tony Pulis
Is Pulis the only English manager available then?
What about Karel Fraeye vs Eddie Howe?
Doesn't that prove the point though? English managers are not inherently better OR worse than managers from abroad. There's great Spanish/German/whatever managers and some that are shit. There's great English managers but again some are shit.
Why make nationality part of it, just go for the best person whatever accent or background they have.
Whoever made the point about Paul Ince and Steven Gerrard brings me to another point. These bugger names who have had great playing careers will always be given a chance over people like Kieran McKenna, Michael Beale (forget the weirdness thats come out, I'm talking purely as a coach), Paul Warne and tons of others. Karl Robinson as much as I dont care for him is well thought of as a coach tons others. Yet I guarantee when it comes down to it at most premier league clubs they will go firstly for the man with most proven miles on the clock, then the big name before any coach with excellent credentials but nothing on their CV.
We have too many crap foreign managers being employed by too many owners.
Of course it doesn’t help that a great number of these owners don’t have a clue how English football clubs should be run.
Been saying this for years and now it is too late to turn things around.
Yeah give me more Steven Gerrard and Paul Ince type managers any day
You're a top 10 Premier League club in search of a new manager and hoping to push on. Do you:
A) Employee Francesco Farioli
or
B ) Employee Tony Pulis
Is Pulis the only English manager available then?
What about Karel Fraeye vs Eddie Howe?
The point, is the coaching, as per the quote chain. Add on the access the newer stock of English (or welsh apparently) coaches have. Plus, the one big final factor of our lower league football.
We have too many crap foreign managers being employed by too many owners.
Of course it doesn’t help that a great number of these owners don’t have a clue how English football clubs should be run.
Been saying this for years and now it is too late to turn things around.
Yeah give me more Steven Gerrard and Paul Ince type managers any day
You're a top 10 Premier League club in search of a new manager and hoping to push on. Do you:
A) Employee Francesco Farioli
or
B ) Employee Tony Pulis
Is Pulis the only English manager available then?
What about Karel Fraeye vs Eddie Howe?
Doesn't that prove the point though? English managers are not inherently better OR worse than managers from abroad. There's great Spanish/German/whatever managers and some that are shit. There's great English managers but again some are shit.
Why make nationality part of it, just go for the best person whatever accent or background they have.
It's exactly the point - nationality shouldn't really matter.
The narrative , on here and elsewhere, is "foreign managers = success, English managers = shit". So that generally means that English managers aren't really given much of a chance by clubs or fans - look at the uproar when Chelsea appointed Potter.
When in fact only one team can win the league and someone is going to finish bottom, same as it's always been.
And it's not just a PL thing anymore, unlike back when this thread was started. I wonder what the breakdown of English vs non-English managers/coaches across all four divisions is now, compared to back them.
Ultimately it's a failing of the FA not developing a sufficiently strong pool of English talent. But clubs (and fans, to an extent) don't help matters with the constant narrative above.
I think it is not enough that somebody has done the badges. Yes it is important but some of those will be better managers than others. If you have 1,000, you are less likely to find the special ones than if you have 15,000. It is a numbers game at the end of the day. Not that inherently, English managers cannont be as good as foreign ones.
I think it is not enough that somebody has done the badges. Yes it is important but some of those will be better managers than others. If you have 1,000, you are less likely to find the special ones than if you have 15,000. It is a numbers game at the end of the day. Not that inherently, English managers cannont be as good as foreign ones.
Of course, always going to have to kiss a few frogs. 1000 pro licence qualified coaches must contain a Prince or 12 right.
Something that coaches get now is emotional intelligence training, actual behavioural management training etc to help them be more than just someone who is great on the grass with a whistle round their neck.
I think it is not enough that somebody has done the badges. Yes it is important but some of those will be better managers than others. If you have 1,000, you are less likely to find the special ones than if you have 15,000. It is a numbers game at the end of the day. Not that inherently, English managers cannont be as good as foreign ones.
Of course, always going to have to kiss a few frogs. 1000 pro licence qualified coaches must contain a Prince or 12 right.
Something that coaches get now is emotional intelligence training, actual behavioural management training etc to help them be more than just someone who is great on the grass with a whistle round their neck.
Well maybe a prince, but maybe not a king. Evidently.
Comments
Yeah have read about this before, think we have one of, if not the most expensive uefa course costs.
Pretty sure I read a stat some time ago that theres something like, 1 professional coach for every 5 players in Spain. Crazy numbers.
I would say a fair few managers from abroad were not great players. Guardiola was, granted, but many others weren't. That may be an example were the bigger pool works as it is probably easier for the Rooneys and Lampards to get their badges but what if there is a Joe Bloggs with all the attributes out there?
If it is more accesable, there may be men/women in their 20s who missed out on a pro career due to injury or just not quite making it, who could gather a lot of learning. We sort of consider going into coaching as something that is done after a football career.
We have too many crap foreign managers being employed by too many owners.
Been saying this for years and now it is too late to turn things around.
You're a top 10 Premier League club in search of a new manager and hoping to push on. Do you:
A) Employee Francesco Farioli
or
B ) Employee Tony Pulis
If you don't have the flair players to push on you would be better to have Tony Pulis or a manager who will play a rigid way.
Croydon Wroy was the same with his repetitive drills in training which was ok at Fulham and Palace but Liverpool needed a system to benefit their attacking intent and that's why Klopp was a better fit in Scouse land.
What about Karel Fraeye vs Eddie Howe?
Why make nationality part of it, just go for the best person whatever accent or background they have.
Whoever made the point about Paul Ince and Steven Gerrard brings me to another point. These bugger names who have had great playing careers will always be given a chance over people like Kieran McKenna, Michael Beale (forget the weirdness thats come out, I'm talking purely as a coach), Paul Warne and tons of others. Karl Robinson as much as I dont care for him is well thought of as a coach tons others. Yet I guarantee when it comes down to it at most premier league clubs they will go firstly for the man with most proven miles on the clock, then the big name before any coach with excellent credentials but nothing on their CV.
The point, is the coaching, as per the quote chain. Add on the access the newer stock of English (or welsh apparently) coaches have. Plus, the one big final factor of our lower league football.
What about Pep vs Ben Garner?
Pulis is Welsh
Past it on that Tony is a Taffy.
The narrative , on here and elsewhere, is "foreign managers = success, English managers = shit". So that generally means that English managers aren't really given much of a chance by clubs or fans - look at the uproar when Chelsea appointed Potter.
When in fact only one team can win the league and someone is going to finish bottom, same as it's always been.
And it's not just a PL thing anymore, unlike back when this thread was started. I wonder what the breakdown of English vs non-English managers/coaches across all four divisions is now, compared to back them.
Ultimately it's a failing of the FA not developing a sufficiently strong pool of English talent. But clubs (and fans, to an extent) don't help matters with the constant narrative above.
Something that coaches get now is emotional intelligence training, actual behavioural management training etc to help them be more than just someone who is great on the grass with a whistle round their neck.