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Elderly drivers: when should they stop? How do you tell them?

ChizzChizz
in Not Sports Related
This week, the Duke of Edinburgh was involved in another driving accident. This time, hospitalising two people. He's 97. And, without fear of exaggeration, I would suggest if he really needed to pop to the shops to get something, he could surely find someone to do that for him. Or, if he needed to go anywhere, at any time, day or night, he could probably find someone to drive him in cossetted, air-conditioned, climate controlled, sweet-smelling luxury, with his own choice of music. (Presumably Queen). The point is, he almost certainly doesn't need to drive. But at what point should he be told she shouldn't be allowed to drive?

What age is too old? How do you get doddery people off the roads? What is the best way to avoid having people who look like they'd struggle to cross a road, being able to get behind a wheel and drive? And, have you ever had to tell an elderly relative they should stop? If so... how?

(This is *not* intended as a thread about republicanism, about the royal family in general or whether we "should" or "shouldn't" have a royal family. So, if you have strong thoughts about that topic, please either post them elsewhere or, probably better still, don't post them at all!)
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Comments

  • ForeverAddicktedForeverAddickted
    Good question in the grand scheme of things

    I dont think age comes into it... I think its purely down to when your actually able to drive to a safe standard and I speak as someone with poor eyesight who that may apply to in the next 10-years (I'll be 45) - End of the day everyone is different and whilst I've seen some people in their 90s who appear a lot younger others are not so dont think there should ever be an age band

    As for how to tell them? - Well it wont be a conversation I'd enjoy if it arose with my parents thats for sure
  • WSSWSS
    Was it the Duke's fault?
  • bobmunrobobmunro
    WSS said:

    Was it the Duke's fault?

    It would appear he pulled out of a side road, so on that basis it's highly likely to be his fault.
  • ChizzChizz
    WSS said:

    Was it the Duke's fault?

    Insofar as the accident involved someone who some think oughtn't to be driving, one could argue that, if he hadn't been driving, there wouldn't have been an accident and therefore it was his fault.

    However, it will be interesting to see whether plod get involved, or whether, without a prosecution, there will be a way of discovering who was determined to have been at fault.

    The Duke of Edinburgh hasn't taken a driving test. I don't know whether he has a licence (I would assume so) and it would be interesting to see whether he's actually insured to drive on public roads.

    The Prime Minister has sent her best wishes to him; but not to the passengers of the other vehicle. So, perhaps she's already decided who was at fault!
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  • T_C_ET_C_E
    You wouldn't believe what goes on down here, when out walking we often see an elderly woman driving with two westies, one on her lap looking out window the other on her shoulder. Total disregard for other road users, pedestrians and of course the dogs safety.
  • ChizzChizz
    Pedro45 said:

    My dad's 89 now. Last time he drove me back to his house he scraped the side of the car on a brick post turning into his garage parking space. He didn't seem that bothered, and looking at the brickwork, it had plenty of red marks on it so it wasn't the first time he done it. I thought then that he really shouldn't be driving if he could get away with it. He hasn't bought a new car for donkeys years, and the reason is obviously that his current car is built like a tank and can take the knocks, which he knows he will give it. He doesn't drive much these days, and often now takes a bus (something I don't think he did for about 50 years!). I could never tell him not to drive, but he is slowly coming to that conclusion himself I think.

    Are you going to bring up the subject with him, Pedro? It's a really difficult conversation to have. But probably easier than other conversations that might need to be had, if he's involved in a collision with something less sturdy than the brick post.
  • Stu_of_KunmingStu_of_Kunming
    killerandflash said:

    If a government really wanted to improve road safety, then all drivers would face compulsory retests every 10 years say, reducing to every 5 years over 70...and you'd probably increase the lower age limit to 20 (for men anyway!)

    The theory in support of older drivers, is that they generally tend to drive within their limits, not driving long distances, not going out at night etc. The downside is that for some even this is beyond their capabilities.

    The 10 year retest was my first thought when I read The OP.
  • ChizzChizz
    MrLargo said:

    There's no specific age that's too old - eyesight, awareness, reaction time, etc deteriorate at vastly different rates from one person to another.

    You have to renew your licence every 3 years after you hit 70 - think that's spot on personally.

    Not got any stats to back this up, but I'd guess that far more accidents are caused by people in the prime of their life driving like arseholes than are caused by elderly folk being a bit "doddery". Certainly in Lewisham and the vicinity, all of the near misses I've had have been due to boy racers, wannabe gangsters and under 50's who don't understand how a roundabout works. No justification at all for targeting the elderly.

    I think it's fair to say that you can be against people incapable, through age-related deterioration from driving and be against people who can drive, but don't do so legally.
  • ChizzChizz
    Stu_of_Kunming said:

    killerandflash said:

    If a government really wanted to improve road safety, then all drivers would face compulsory retests every 10 years say, reducing to every 5 years over 70...and you'd probably increase the lower age limit to 20 (for men anyway!)

    The theory in support of older drivers, is that they generally tend to drive within their limits, not driving long distances, not going out at night etc. The downside is that for some even this is beyond their capabilities.

    The 10 year retest was my first thought when I read The OP.
    Like a number of elderly people, the D of E hasn't had a test at all.
  • stackitstevestackitsteve
    edited January 2019
    Addick Addict said:

    A report from 2015 states that 15.36% of reported accidents were involving drivers aged under 24 compared to only 5.95% involving drivers aged over 70. So, are we going to stop anyone under 24 from driving?

    Those percentages don't take into account the number of drivers in each age bracket though do they?
    So if there were a million drivers under 24 and 1000 over 70 but the % figures are 'all accidents' it makes for very different reading.
    (and I'm not suggesting the difference in figures is that big, just using them to make the point)

    Agree on the whole though. 've always said there should be retesting at 70, never thought about anything like a 10 year retest for all (such as @killerandflash suggestion) but that's even better.
  • SOTFSOTF
    edited January 2019
    I see both sides of the coin.

    My fear with stigmatising all elderly people as being unfit to drive by a certain age, is that those who are fit and have full sagacity, will lose their freedom, increase loneliness and cause huge social and health issues within that demographic.

    That's not to say everyone should automatically have the right to get behind the wheel. Being vulnerable or lonely does not excuse anyone for putting other road users or pedestrians in danger.

    In my view, mandatory testing every 1-2 years (at the discretion of the tester) should be introduced. I would suggest at 70, but I'm sure there's a few 70+ year old posters on here who could be justifiably offended by that. My argument would be better safe than sorry.

    However you dress it up, the current obligation on the license holder to tell the DVLA whether they are fit to drive is not a fit for purpose process.
  • Big_Bad_WorldBig_Bad_World
    edited January 2019
    He should be allowed to continue driving as long as he gets his GPs signature to do so, or the rules/law around that change.
  • SantaClausSantaClaus
    edited January 2019
    My grandmother kept driving into her early 90's. I doubt she would have passed a retest after she reached 75 and it was just luck that one of her numerous small accidents wasn't something more serious. I imagine the reason mandatory retests haven't been brought in by any government is electoral cowardice due to the elderly being such a powerful voter bloc.
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  • The Red RobinThe Red Robin
    Retake your test / refresher at pension age.
  • Afternoon DelightAfternoon Delight
    edited January 2019
    My Dad has just given up driving, he's 85 and to be honest it was a relief to the whole family. He was clearly finding the whole experience of driving in any traffic, motorways, parking etc stressful. His actual driving was fine until about ten years ago when it became noticeably poorer. The last time I went in the car with him about three years ago was genuinely frightening. In particular his decision making at junctions and his general spatial awareness was becoming dangerous. It literally was an accident waiting to happen.
  • GoonerhaterGoonerhater
    This thread is age-ist
  • FiiishFiiish
    I know people in their fifties and sixties who, due to age-related issues, have either voluntarily given up driving or were forced to either by their families or the doctor/police, either after a near miss or after a collision.

    Likewise I know people in the eighties and nineties who are safer drivers than most people under fifty. And generally do rely on their cars to get around.

    At Christmas 2015, a man in his eighties went through the window of a Costa in Westerham and killed someone. He was given a £1,500 fine, a suspended sentence and a 5 year driving ban.

    I remember someone in their nineties mounted a curb outside the local train station and killed someone waiting outside. I cannot remember the sentence given but I'm sure no jail time was served.

    Clearly the law is not fit for purpose but there is also no "correct" age to cut up someone's licence.

    The burden shouldn't fall on GPs to determine who is and isn't safe to drive (beyond those who are blind/have dementia or similar). Mandatory retesting after a certain age is tricky because what age is the correct one?

    Whatever the answer, we cannot have a system where the rights of a driver trump the right to life/safety of those around him, which is what we currently have.
  • RossRoss
    It's hard enough to get a driving test as it is, yet alone introduce mandatory re-tests without employing a hell of a load more examiners and creating more test centres.
  • RaplhMilneRaplhMilne
    edited January 2019
    My dad gave up driving at 86 basically because we pushed him into it. I sat in a car with him and my feet were through the floor braking and teeth marks in the dashboard in anguish ! . He was not in anyway competent anymore, but in his prime had driven articulated lorries for a living. He took his car to the doctors, stopped off at the shops, an decided to walk round to doctors. When he came out of the doctors and his car wasn't outside, he forgot he'd parked it round the shops. It was reported stolen and he got paid out. Six months later in his new car he parked in same place up the shops, and found his car. He still insisted someone nicked it from the doctors, and drove it to the shops, locked it up and left it there.

    I think after 75 you should have to spend 30 minutes in a car with a qualified driving instructor every two years , who can then assess whether you are competent to drive. Obviously with a right to appeal if you feel the need following a refusal to renew your licence.

  • BaldybonceBaldybonce
    Goonerhater said:

    This thread is age-ist

    We haven't got to the African women drivers of Woolwich yet.
  • GoonerhaterGoonerhater
    I'd be more concerned about the arseholes driving that have licences produced by organised crime and have never sat any sort of test
  • RaplhMilneRaplhMilne
    Baldybonce said:

    Goonerhater said:

    This thread is age-ist

    We haven't got to the African women drivers of Woolwich yet.
    ARRRRRRGGGG.............. !
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