As this whole thread has come about through the actions of the Duke of Edinburgh. Let's just go back to him for a moment. The thing that surprised me most is that he was actually driving alone. Why? Has he never been warned about the possibility of terrorists targeting him? Surely with his massive wealth he could employ his own bodyguard/driver. I hope he learns from this and surrenders his Licence.
As for giving everyone over 70 a hard time Re, re-tests/doctors advice etc. Well I'm not in agreement with that (and I'm not seventy yet either) I was young once and when I look back at my own driving then, I'm a little embarrassed. Albeit, the roads were much quieter then. I definitely feel I became a better driver as I grew older.
I took a motorcycle test in my fifties (like many I didn't bother as a youngster) I passed the theory test with 100%. Admittedly I failed the practical first time. Due entirely to riding a modern scooter with indicators, which I constantly forgot to cancel. Having only ever ridden historic scooters without indicators and using arm signals. Got it right next time though.
My Dad has just given up driving, he's 85 and to be honest it was a relief to the whole family. He was clearly finding the whole experience of driving in any traffic, motorways, parking etc stressful. His actual driving was fine until about ten years ago when it became noticeably poorer. The last time I went in the car with him about three years ago was genuinely frightening. In particular his decision making at junctions and his general spatial awareness was becoming dangerous. It literally was an accident waiting to happen.
Spacial awareness is the problem for my Dad when he is walking let alone driving. Even though he was mainly only driving to the local shops it took me and my brothers plus the insurance company putting his insurance up past the 1k for him to give up driving. At least he finished in credit, and not having a bad accident like in Westerham when a old chap in an automatic ploughed into a coffee shop killing the person by the window.
Unfortunately it's not always funny anecdotes when old folk put their foot on wrong pedal.
Phil the Greek should have a special test at nearly 98 for him to keep on driving.
As this whole thread has come about through the actions of the Duke of Edinburgh. Let's just go back to him for a moment. The thing that surprised me most is that he was actually driving alone. Why? Has he never been warned about the possibility of terrorists targeting him? Surely with his massive wealth he could employ his own bodyguard/driver. .
I'm an over 70's driver and I consider myself a good driver, in some way I'm better than my 24year self in that I have far more experience and in another way I'm worse as my reaction times must be slower. I love driving and drive a higher performance car but I hope that I know when I should stop driving and if I don't know I'm sure the Lass will tell me
My Mym and Dad still drive. Mum is 73 and Dad is 72 next month respectively. Both still competent and both still happy to drive. I've been in the car with both of them and can safely say that.
My mother-in-law is another matter entirely. Turns 74 in March. She was still driving up to about 6 months ago. I knew she was a bit doddery as most old people tend to get but ended up sitting behind her in traffic a couple of times and realised she was a proper nightmare. I ended up having a long conversation with my wife about her. I thought she was a danger to other road users and told the wife to go out with her a couple of times and see what she thought.
She done that and agreed with me that she was a liability and she had the chat with her to say do you think enough is enough and she agreed. Car went for scrap (it was an old banger anyway) and what she paid in petrol, mot and insurance etc now goes in cab fares when we're not about or she uses her bus pass. To be fair to her she says she doesnt miss it. Still got all her faculties about her but failing eyesight is one thing, no confidence is another.
Scary thing for me is that both my mum and the MiL had valid driving licenses up until pretty recently, despite neither of them having got behind the wheel for 20+ years (more for the MiL). Either of them could have bought and insured a car and driven it on the roads legally but would, in my view, be a far greater danger than many other road users.
My Mym and Dad still drive. Mum is 73 and Dad is 72 next month respectively. Both still competent and both still happy to drive. I've been in the car with both of them and can safely say that.
My mother-in-law is another matter entirely. Turns 74 in March. She was still driving up to about 6 months ago. I knew she was a bit doddery as most old people tend to get but ended up sitting behind her in traffic a couple of times and realised she was a proper nightmare. I ended up having a long conversation with my wife about her. I thought she was a danger to other road users and told the wife to go out with her a couple of times and see what she thought.
She done that and agreed with me that she was a liability and she had the chat with her to say do you think enough is enough and she agreed. Car went for scrap (it was an old banger anyway) and what she paid in petrol, mot and insurance etc now goes in cab fares when we're not about or she uses her bus pass. To be fair to her she says she doesnt miss it. Still got all her faculties about her but failing eyesight is one thing, no confidence is another.
I hate my MIL driving our daughter anywhere as her driving is awful (thankfully, it's only very rarely and for short, local journeys). Not because she's doddery or has bad eyesight, she's probably in better physical shape than I am but she's just a sh*t driver.
Practically every time I've been in a car with her she's been hooted, flashed, or shouted at but she just drives on oblivious to it all. Her husband's disabled so she has to drive a large vehicle to accommodate the wheelchair which doesn't help.
The other car which was tiny, must have been going some yo flip a land rover that is covered in armour. My guess is he pulled ouy of the turning without looking properly, surely if he had he wouldn't have been hit ?.
It makes more sense that this was the scenario as he was in his own, if others were with him maybe they would have seen the other car coming.
The other car which was tiny, must have been going some yo flip a land rover that is covered in armour. My guess is he pulled ouy of the turning without looking properly, surely if he had he wouldn't have been hit ?.
It makes more sense that this was the scenario as he was in his own, if others were with him maybe they would have seen the other car coming.
Not necessarily, if they were behind him.
The speed limit on that road is 60mph. If he was pulling out to turn left the smaller car may have hit his front offside - if turning right then either front or rear offside. Even a small car travelling at 60mph could flip a Landrover if impact was at an angle on a corner of the car.
What's more amazing is that the other car's occupants weren't seriously injured.
Car accidents: Younger v older drivers By BBC Reality Check
In November 2018, there were 5.3 million over-70s with full driving licences in Britain, according to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency.
There were 11,245 people involved in road traffic accidents where the driver was in that age group - a rate of two per 1,000 licence holders.
For Britain's 2.8 million drivers aged 17 to 24, the rate was more than four times as high, at nine per 1,000.
You have to look at the number of miles driven for this to be meaningful.
And the extent of the injuries resulting from the accidents - there is a reason why the young have such high insurance premiums other than the greed of the insurance companies!
White van men, foreign lorry drivers, young people, old people etc etc.
There are good and bad in every category yet it is only with regard to the old that we hear the 'get them off the road' argument.
@Addick Addict has shown statistics showing that younger drivers are far more dangerous yet nobody suggests getting them off the road why?
We are all told to be 'green' because of the man made climate change money raising scam so why is anyone under 30 allowed to drive when they are able bodied enough to walk or cycle?
No more stupid a suggestion than effectively putting anyone over 70 under house arrest which I think many would be quite happy to see judging by comments above.
Because no one has had to take their white van driving husband, or 22 year old daughter, or 4x4 driving wife to one side and question their physical and mental ability to drive.
Plenty of people have had to sit down with an elderly parent, sibling, relative or friend and tearfully explain how you are terrified for their welfare because they have watch their relative/friend regress quite rapidly, reaction times slowing, cognitive ability impaired, eyesight going, and increasing lapses in judgement whilst driving, as well as the effects of dementia, Parkinson's or other age-related illnesses.
And plenty of people have had to bury a relative or friend because an elderly person was behind the wheel because they did not have someone in their life who cared about them enough to have such a conversation with them.
Even more ....'have had to bury a relative or friend'..... because a young person was behind the wheel.
The difference being the young person's problem was suffering from a lack of experience/judgement, not because they were not physically/mentally fit to be behind the wheel. And the only way they get more experience...is by being behind a wheel. They get better the more they drive. Older people generally do not. Keeping them behind a wheel does not stave off blindness, dementia, Parkinson's, poor reactions and other age-related health problems.
Every single driver on this forum, including ones like yourself who are wrongly equating young driver accidents to old driver accidents, were a new driver once, and therefore more likely than other drivers to be involved in an accident. It is axiomatic that new drivers are less experienced and therefore more likely to be involved in an accident.
All of this argues for speed limits/restrictions being placed on the young until they gain experience as is the norm in much of Europe.
White van men, foreign lorry drivers, young people, old people etc etc.
There are good and bad in every category yet it is only with regard to the old that we hear the 'get them off the road' argument.
@Addick Addict has shown statistics showing that younger drivers are far more dangerous yet nobody suggests getting them off the road why?
We are all told to be 'green' because of the man made climate change money raising scam so why is anyone under 30 allowed to drive when they are able bodied enough to walk or cycle?
No more stupid a suggestion than effectively putting anyone over 70 under house arrest which I think many would be quite happy to see judging by comments above.
Because no one has had to take their white van driving husband, or 22 year old daughter, or 4x4 driving wife to one side and question their physical and mental ability to drive.
Plenty of people have had to sit down with an elderly parent, sibling, relative or friend and tearfully explain how you are terrified for their welfare because they have watch their relative/friend regress quite rapidly, reaction times slowing, cognitive ability impaired, eyesight going, and increasing lapses in judgement whilst driving, as well as the effects of dementia, Parkinson's or other age-related illnesses.
And plenty of people have had to bury a relative or friend because an elderly person was behind the wheel because they did not have someone in their life who cared about them enough to have such a conversation with them.
Even more ....'have had to bury a relative or friend'..... because a young person was behind the wheel.
The difference being the young person's problem was suffering from a lack of experience/judgement, not because they were not physically/mentally fit to be behind the wheel. And the only way they get more experience...is by being behind a wheel. They get better the more they drive. Older people generally do not. Keeping them behind a wheel does not stave off blindness, dementia, Parkinson's, poor reactions and other age-related health problems.
Every single driver on this forum, including ones like yourself who are wrongly equating young driver accidents to old driver accidents, were a new driver once, and therefore more likely than other drivers to be involved in an accident. It is axiomatic that new drivers are less experienced and therefore more likely to be involved in an accident.
All of this argues for speed limits/restrictions being placed on the young until they gain experience as is the norm in much of Europe.
I'm not against this, albeit it would require speed limiters installed since I imagine most young people would flout it.
For a growing number of young people and new drivers, the only way you can get insurance nowadays is to have a monitoring box put in your car, which if nothing else at least lets your insurer know when you're driving like a moron.
White van men, foreign lorry drivers, young people, old people etc etc.
There are good and bad in every category yet it is only with regard to the old that we hear the 'get them off the road' argument.
@Addick Addict has shown statistics showing that younger drivers are far more dangerous yet nobody suggests getting them off the road why?
We are all told to be 'green' because of the man made climate change money raising scam so why is anyone under 30 allowed to drive when they are able bodied enough to walk or cycle?
No more stupid a suggestion than effectively putting anyone over 70 under house arrest which I think many would be quite happy to see judging by comments above.
Because no one has had to take their white van driving husband, or 22 year old daughter, or 4x4 driving wife to one side and question their physical and mental ability to drive.
Plenty of people have had to sit down with an elderly parent, sibling, relative or friend and tearfully explain how you are terrified for their welfare because they have watch their relative/friend regress quite rapidly, reaction times slowing, cognitive ability impaired, eyesight going, and increasing lapses in judgement whilst driving, as well as the effects of dementia, Parkinson's or other age-related illnesses.
And plenty of people have had to bury a relative or friend because an elderly person was behind the wheel because they did not have someone in their life who cared about them enough to have such a conversation with them.
Even more ....'have had to bury a relative or friend'..... because a young person was behind the wheel.
The difference being the young person's problem was suffering from a lack of experience/judgement, not because they were not physically/mentally fit to be behind the wheel. And the only way they get more experience...is by being behind a wheel. They get better the more they drive. Older people generally do not. Keeping them behind a wheel does not stave off blindness, dementia, Parkinson's, poor reactions and other age-related health problems.
Every single driver on this forum, including ones like yourself who are wrongly equating young driver accidents to old driver accidents, were a new driver once, and therefore more likely than other drivers to be involved in an accident. It is axiomatic that new drivers are less experienced and therefore more likely to be involved in an accident.
All of this argues for speed limits/restrictions being placed on the young until they gain experience as is the norm in much of Europe.
As would limiting the power of the car they drive to 1ltr and insisting that a green L plate be displayed for 12 months after passing test so other drivers would know to give a bit more care.
My grandad pulled off their drive up Eltham Green Road straight into the path of another car, causing minor damage, gave up driving straight away. My dad was a member of the Advanced Motorist Institute and was a chauffeur for the MOD years aho, but he just gave up driving off his own back a few years ago too, which is just aswell as he's virtually blind now...
As this whole thread has come about through the actions of the Duke of Edinburgh. Let's just go back to him for a moment. The thing that surprised me most is that he was actually driving alone. Why? Has he never been warned about the possibility of terrorists targeting him? Surely with his massive wealth he could employ his own bodyguard/driver. .
There was a car following him.
To protect him ? they did a cracking job . It was a passing by pensioner that pulled him from the wreckage.
White van men, foreign lorry drivers, young people, old people etc etc.
There are good and bad in every category yet it is only with regard to the old that we hear the 'get them off the road' argument.
@Addick Addict has shown statistics showing that younger drivers are far more dangerous yet nobody suggests getting them off the road why?
We are all told to be 'green' because of the man made climate change money raising scam so why is anyone under 30 allowed to drive when they are able bodied enough to walk or cycle?
No more stupid a suggestion than effectively putting anyone over 70 under house arrest which I think many would be quite happy to see judging by comments above.
Every driver should be retested periodically. Maybe every 5 years and then annually after 75. But this is only an uninformed opinion perhaps everyone should face annual retest. What do other countries do?
A best mate who died some years ago in his mid eighties never took a test, but he was the safest driver I ever sat with even at speed on country roads. But he did used to race at Brooklands.
A best mate who died some years ago in his mid eighties never took a test, but he was the safest driver I ever sat with even at speed on country roads. But he did used to race at Brooklands.
Raced at Brooklands? He must have had some stories.
A best mate who died some years ago in his mid eighties never took a test, but he was the safest driver I ever sat with even at speed on country roads. But he did used to race at Brooklands.
Raced at Brooklands? He must have had some stories.
Yes and some amazing photos, he was an avid snapper with an expensive camera. I've tried to track them down to no avail.
If a government really wanted to improve road safety, then all drivers would face compulsory retests every 10 years say, reducing to every 5 years over 70...and you'd probably increase the lower age limit to 20 (for men anyway!)
The theory in support of older drivers, is that they generally tend to drive within their limits, not driving long distances, not going out at night etc. The downside is that for some even this is beyond their capabilities.
Far too sensible. I live in Cornwall and on the 20 mile drive to work often get stuck for half the journey behind drivers who are clearly struggling with confidence or road awareness. They tend to do 25 on roads designed for 50, pull out of junctions then slow down and brake every time a vehicle comes in the other direction. Often these are older drivers sometimes not. Driving is not a right and driving when not competent should be illegal same as drink driving.
A best mate who died some years ago in his mid eighties never took a test, but he was the safest driver I ever sat with even at speed on country roads. But he did used to race at Brooklands.
Raced at Brooklands? He must have had some stories.
Yes and some amazing photos, he was an avid snapper with an expensive camera. I've tried to track them down to no avail.
His car was like this one. A Wolesey Hornet.
Pity. Brooklands is an amazing place and has had a few big changes to the aircraft displays recently.
Am there for a show with my car later in the year.
Well worth a visit if you’re a car or plane enthusiast (the London bus museum is there too)
Comments
Stats for over 80s might be more relevant
The thing that surprised me most is that he was actually driving alone. Why?
Has he never been warned about the possibility of terrorists targeting him?
Surely with his massive wealth he could employ his own bodyguard/driver.
I hope he learns from this and surrenders his Licence.
As for giving everyone over 70 a hard time Re, re-tests/doctors advice etc. Well I'm not in agreement with that (and I'm not seventy yet either)
I was young once and when I look back at my own driving then, I'm a little embarrassed. Albeit, the roads were much quieter then. I definitely feel I became a better driver as I grew older.
I took a motorcycle test in my fifties (like many I didn't bother as a youngster) I passed the theory test with 100%.
Admittedly I failed the practical first time. Due entirely to riding a modern scooter with indicators, which I constantly forgot to cancel. Having only ever ridden historic scooters without indicators and using arm signals. Got it right next time though.
Even though he was mainly only driving to the local shops it took me and my brothers plus the insurance company putting his insurance up past the 1k for him to give up driving. At least he finished in credit, and not having a bad accident like in Westerham when a old chap in an automatic ploughed into a coffee shop killing the person by the window.
Unfortunately it's not always funny anecdotes when old folk put their foot on wrong pedal.
Phil the Greek should have a special test at nearly 98 for him to keep on driving.
My Mym and Dad still drive. Mum is 73 and Dad is 72 next month respectively. Both still competent and both still happy to drive. I've been in the car with both of them and can safely say that.
My mother-in-law is another matter entirely. Turns 74 in March. She was still driving up to about 6 months ago. I knew she was a bit doddery as most old people tend to get but ended up sitting behind her in traffic a couple of times and realised she was a proper nightmare. I ended up having a long conversation with my wife about her. I thought she was a danger to other road users and told the wife to go out with her a couple of times and see what she thought.
She done that and agreed with me that she was a liability and she had the chat with her to say do you think enough is enough and she agreed. Car went for scrap (it was an old banger anyway) and what she paid in petrol, mot and insurance etc now goes in cab fares when we're not about or she uses her bus pass. To be fair to her she says she doesnt miss it. Still got all her faculties about her but failing eyesight is one thing, no confidence is another.
Practically every time I've been in a car with her she's been hooted, flashed, or shouted at but she just drives on oblivious to it all. Her husband's disabled so she has to drive a large vehicle to accommodate the wheelchair which doesn't help.
It makes more sense that this was the scenario as he was in his own, if others were with him maybe they would have seen the other car coming.
The speed limit on that road is 60mph. If he was pulling out to turn left the smaller car may have hit his front offside - if turning right then either front or rear offside. Even a small car travelling at 60mph could flip a Landrover if impact was at an angle on a corner of the car.
What's more amazing is that the other car's occupants weren't seriously injured.
For a growing number of young people and new drivers, the only way you can get insurance nowadays is to have a monitoring box put in your car, which if nothing else at least lets your insurer know when you're driving like a moron.
Maybe every 5 years and then annually after 75.
But this is only an uninformed opinion perhaps everyone should face annual retest.
What do other countries do?
His car was like this one. A Wolesey Hornet.
Am there for a show with my car later in the year.
Well worth a visit if you’re a car or plane enthusiast (the London bus museum is there too)