It really is amazing how people will compare past owners to try and justify the actions of the current one. There is no case to answer.
Duchatelet is Now, so is the worse. Despite the reasons given by Airman, about Fryer/Hill and Heysel stadium being a factor in the move to Thornton heath did you have NO Problem with that move or are you too young ? It is last century CAFC history but I would hate for us to forget the shocking decisions made by previous owners.
I repeat Roland Duchatelet is a nightmare owner and this is the painfull period we are living through. I have no idea what the next owners will be like, but even if they are bang average, will be an improvement on Duchatelet and most previous owners of this old south London football club.
Ps. I was living in Penge at the time and only had a two mile walk to Selhurst Park, despite this I was delighted when we came home.
I am a very young 52.
These past 5 years have been carnage, you cannot compare to the past.
The club is on the floor, waiting to be picked up off it, dusted down, and started again.
So you didn't have a problem going to Selhurst and don't feel that ripped the soul from our club. We lost a generation of fans that never came back. The packed out valley when we got to the Premier were 10k neutrals out of 26k. Bizarre way of looking back at a nightmare when we lost the Valley.
How doesn't that compare to now ?
Where did I say I did not have a problem with the move to Sainsburys?
It really is amazing how people will compare past owners to try and justify the actions of the current one. There is no case to answer.
Duchatelet is Now, so is the worse. Despite the reasons given by Airman, about Fryer/Hill and Heysel stadium being a factor in the move to Thornton heath did you have NO Problem with that move or are you too young ? It is last century CAFC history but I would hate for us to forget the shocking decisions made by previous owners.
I repeat Roland Duchatelet is a nightmare owner and this is the painfull period we are living through. I have no idea what the next owners will be like, but even if they are bang average, will be an improvement on Duchatelet and most previous owners of this old south London football club.
Ps. I was living in Penge at the time and only had a two mile walk to Selhurst Park, despite this I was delighted when we came home.
I am a very young 52.
These past 5 years have been carnage, you cannot compare to the past.
The club is on the floor, waiting to be picked up off it, dusted down, and started again.
So you didn't have a problem going to Selhurst and don't feel that ripped the soul from our club. We lost a generation of fans that never came back. The packed out valley when we got to the Premier were 10k neutrals out of 26k. Bizarre way of looking back at a nightmare when we lost the Valley.
How doesn't that compare to now ?
Where did I say I did not have a problem with the move to Sainsburys?
You said it doesn't compare. Which must mean it isn't as bad ?
Airman have you ever considered doing a paid for online version, for those of us abroad, once my mums found you, bought it and sent it here most of the stuff has been mentioned, it's still a good read but itd be great to get it faster!
I think he does direct postal subscriptions.
I think @PragueAddick and others get theirs that way.
Might speed it up if you can cut out the 'middle man.'
I'm not suggesting your Mum is a man for the avoidance of any doubt!
That's correct but I am not sure how automated it is, it is a big pdf file that downloads to my Dropbox. Airman may not be able to handle too many such subs. I am sure he'll tell us.
It really is amazing how people will compare past owners to try and justify the actions of the current one. There is no case to answer.
Duchatelet is Now, so is the worse. Despite the reasons given by Airman, about Fryer/Hill and Heysel stadium being a factor in the move to Thornton heath did you have NO Problem with that move or are you too young ? It is last century CAFC history but I would hate for us to forget the shocking decisions made by previous owners.
I repeat Roland Duchatelet is a nightmare owner and this is the painfull period we are living through. I have no idea what the next owners will be like, but even if they are bang average, will be an improvement on Duchatelet and most previous owners of this old south London football club.
Ps. I was living in Penge at the time and only had a two mile walk to Selhurst Park, despite this I was delighted when we came home.
I am a very young 52.
These past 5 years have been carnage, you cannot compare to the past.
The club is on the floor, waiting to be picked up off it, dusted down, and started again.
So you didn't have a problem going to Selhurst and don't feel that ripped the soul from our club. We lost a generation of fans that never came back. The packed out valley when we got to the Premier were 10k neutrals out of 26k. Bizarre way of looking back at a nightmare when we lost the Valley.
How doesn't that compare to now ?
Where did I say I did not have a problem with the move to Sainsburys?
It really is amazing how people will compare past owners to try and justify the actions of the current one. There is no case to answer.
Duchatelet is Now, so is the worse. Despite the reasons given by Airman, about Fryer/Hill and Heysel stadium being a factor in the move to Thornton heath did you have NO Problem with that move or are you too young ? It is last century CAFC history but I would hate for us to forget the shocking decisions made by previous owners.
I repeat Roland Duchatelet is a nightmare owner and this is the painfull period we are living through. I have no idea what the next owners will be like, but even if they are bang average, will be an improvement on Duchatelet and most previous owners of this old south London football club.
Ps. I was living in Penge at the time and only had a two mile walk to Selhurst Park, despite this I was delighted when we came home.
I am a very young 52.
These past 5 years have been carnage, you cannot compare to the past.
The club is on the floor, waiting to be picked up off it, dusted down, and started again.
So you didn't have a problem going to Selhurst and don't feel that ripped the soul from our club. We lost a generation of fans that never came back. The packed out valley when we got to the Premier were 10k neutrals out of 26k. Bizarre way of looking back at a nightmare when we lost the Valley.
How doesn't that compare to now ?
Where did I say I did not have a problem with the move to Sainsburys?
You said it doesn't compare. Which must mean it isn't as bad ?
I say it does compare to losing your home.
We have a difference of opinion on that .
That's fine, you see it different.
Okay, great, we have settled this amicably.
Please tell me 5 positive things to come from the maniac in charge of us now.
I looked into making it generally available as a pdf about three years ago but at the time it didn’t seem to be straightforward. I might have another look in the summer.
Talk to Sue Parkes to hear anything positive about RD I'm not an apologist for Roland Duchatelet. I have done all the demos, walking out against Middlesbrough and went to the funeral of Cafc (where my son's footage was shown all over the world and Leicester)
My one and only argument is losing your ground and home for 7 years does compare to now.
I don't care if I'm the only person who feels that.
It really is amazing how people will compare past owners to try and justify the actions of the current one. There is no case to answer.
This is a really good point. You should be able to list all of the positive and negative things that an owner has done and reach a conclusion as to how good they were completely independently of any external comparisons. When you have to fish around for the names of other bad owners to compare them with, you know you're on a sticky wicket.
I am not trying to defend RD or his actions, my point is that him going, by its self isn't going to make everything OK. That's nowhere near saying we should put up with him.
As @PragueAddick rightfully says it's more a football issue, than a Charlton issue. 20 years ago Murray, Sheepshanks and Garside were praised throughout football as examples of good owners. Look at their "legacy" now.
How many billionaires are there who are prepared to pump their own money into failing businesses? In most industries these clubs would just be wound up as they aren't going concerns.
It really is amazing how people will compare past owners to try and justify the actions of the current one. There is no case to answer.
This is a really good point. You should be able to list all of the positive and negative things that an owner has done and reach a conclusion as to how good they were completely independently of any external comparisons. When you have to fish around for the names of other bad owners to compare them with, you know you're on a sticky wicket.
I am not trying to defend RD or his actions, my point is that him going, by its self isn't going to make everything OK. That's nowhere near saying we should put up with him.
As @PragueAddick rightfully says it's more a football issue, than a Charlton issue. 20 years ago Murray, Sheepshanks and Garside were praised throughout football as examples of good owners. Look at their "legacy" now.
How many billionaires are there who are prepared to pump their own money into failing businesses? In most industries these clubs would just be wound up as they aren't going concerns.
And this is where history is interesting and where I would probably differ again from Airman's perspective. 20 years ago, RM deserved to be held up as an example of a good owner, because he could point to a club where a really excellent CEO had active fans like Airman and others on the inside, on the payroll delivering things like Target 40,000 and Valley Express, fans as shareholders, a supporter on the Board, a full stadium, and finances in reasonable shape. All gone.
Of course in those golden years, there was no Voice , and Charlton fans didn't see the need for a Supporters Trust either. Looking back on those times, I feel we all became a bit complacent. Now we have the Voice back, a strong CAST, CARD, and ROT. That's a wider base of activism, but nobody summarises the state of play better than Airman when he has the time to sit down and write with more care than most of us will take on CL.
Another thing that is important about this incarnation of Airman is his detailed grasp of the history of the club. That's invaluable for us all too, because you know what they say about people who ignore the lessons of history!
Airman have you ever considered doing a paid for online version, for those of us abroad, once my mums found you, bought it and sent it here most of the stuff has been mentioned, it's still a good read but itd be great to get it faster!
I think he does direct postal subscriptions.
I think @PragueAddick and others get theirs that way.
Might speed it up if you can cut out the 'middle man.'
I'm not suggesting your Mum is a man for the avoidance of any doubt!
It really is amazing how people will compare past owners to try and justify the actions of the current one. There is no case to answer.
This is a really good point. You should be able to list all of the positive and negative things that an owner has done and reach a conclusion as to how good they were completely independently of any external comparisons. When you have to fish around for the names of other bad owners to compare them with, you know you're on a sticky wicket.
I am not trying to defend RD or his actions, my point is that him going, by its self isn't going to make everything OK. That's nowhere near saying we should put up with him.
As @PragueAddick rightfully says it's more a football issue, than a Charlton issue. 20 years ago Murray, Sheepshanks and Garside were praised throughout football as examples of good owners. Look at their "legacy" now.
How many billionaires are there who are prepared to pump their own money into failing businesses? In most industries these clubs would just be wound up as they aren't going concerns.
And this is where history is interesting and where I would probably differ again from Airman's perspective. 20 years ago, RM deserved to be held up as an example of a good owner, because he could point to a club where a really excellent CEO had active fans like Airman and others on the inside, on the payroll delivering things like Target 40,000 and Valley Express, fans as shareholders, a supporter on the Board, a full stadium, and finances in reasonable shape. All gone.
Of course in those golden years, there was no Voice , and Charlton fans didn't see the need for a Supporters Trust either. Looking back on those times, I feel we all became a bit complacent. Now we have the Voice back, a strong CAST, CARD, and ROT. That's a wider base of activism, but nobody summarises the state of play better than Airman when he has the time to sit down and write with more care than most of us will take on CL.
Another thing that is important about this incarnation of Airman is his detailed grasp of the history of the club. That's invaluable for us all too, because you know what they say about people who ignore the lessons of history!
It really is amazing how people will compare past owners to try and justify the actions of the current one. There is no case to answer.
This is a really good point. You should be able to list all of the positive and negative things that an owner has done and reach a conclusion as to how good they were completely independently of any external comparisons. When you have to fish around for the names of other bad owners to compare them with, you know you're on a sticky wicket.
I am not trying to defend RD or his actions, my point is that him going, by its self isn't going to make everything OK. That's nowhere near saying we should put up with him.
As @PragueAddick rightfully says it's more a football issue, than a Charlton issue. 20 years ago Murray, Sheepshanks and Garside were praised throughout football as examples of good owners. Look at their "legacy" now.
How many billionaires are there who are prepared to pump their own money into failing businesses? In most industries these clubs would just be wound up as they aren't going concerns.
And this is where history is interesting and where I would probably differ again from Airman's perspective. 20 years ago, RM deserved to be held up as an example of a good owner, because he could point to a club where a really excellent CEO had active fans like Airman and others on the inside, on the payroll delivering things like Target 40,000 and Valley Express, fans as shareholders, a supporter on the Board, a full stadium, and finances in reasonable shape. All gone.
Of course in those golden years, there was no Voice , and Charlton fans didn't see the need for a Supporters Trust either. Looking back on those times, I feel we all became a bit complacent. Now we have the Voice back, a strong CAST, CARD, and ROT. That's a wider base of activism, but nobody summarises the state of play better than Airman when he has the time to sit down and write with more care than most of us will take on CL.
Another thing that is important about this incarnation of Airman is his detailed grasp of the history of the club. That's invaluable for us all too, because you know what they say about people who ignore the lessons of history!
I'm distraught to learn that you failed to mention the other protest group, PA.
WAR are currently girding their cumulative loins in readiness for action & in fact have a meeting on Thursday....
Airman have you ever considered doing a paid for online version, for those of us abroad, once my mums found you, bought it and sent it here most of the stuff has been mentioned, it's still a good read but itd be great to get it faster!
I think he does direct postal subscriptions.
I think @PragueAddick and others get theirs that way.
Might speed it up if you can cut out the 'middle man.'
I'm not suggesting your Mum is a man for the avoidance of any doubt!
I imagine its a lot quicker to getting Prague, post can take roughly 3 weeks to get here, if it arrives at all.
I looked into making it generally available as a pdf about three years ago but at the time it didn’t seem to be straightforward. I might have another look in the summer.
That would be awesome, although I assume you'd need some way to be sure it wasn't being forwarded on, I assume this is done on a 'trust basis' with Prague? Understandable why that can't be available for the masses.
Airman have you ever considered doing a paid for online version, for those of us abroad, once my mums found you, bought it and sent it here most of the stuff has been mentioned, it's still a good read but itd be great to get it faster!
I think he does direct postal subscriptions.
I think @PragueAddick and others get theirs that way.
Might speed it up if you can cut out the 'middle man.'
I'm not suggesting your Mum is a man for the avoidance of any doubt!
I imagine its a lot quicker to getting Prague, post can take roughly 3 weeks to get here, if it arrives at all.
On 27th feb 1984,the courts ordered Charlton athletic to be wound up ,The ten days that followed until we were rescued on the 10th March must rank as the most desolute period of any Charlton supporter at the time.Only those old enough to have lived through this period would understand.Nothing,however grim ,however depressing about the present situation compares with those 10 days 35 years ago.We then left the Valley,4 years later Roger Alwen and Mike Norris came,Voice of the Valley was with us and the rest is history.Please somewhere out there,let there be another Roger Alwen.
On 27th feb 1984,the courts ordered Charlton athletic to be wound up ,The ten days that followed until we were rescued on the 10th March must rank as the most desolute period of any Charlton supporter at the time.Only those old enough to have lived through this period would understand.Nothing,however grim ,however depressing about the present situation compares with those 10 days 35 years ago.We then left the Valley,4 years later Roger Alwen and Mike Norris came,Voice of the Valley was with us and the rest is history.Please somewhere out there,let there be another Roger Alwen.
Surely even RD being in charge is better than no club at all(I know its close)
Yes, but there was still a club and quite a decent season, in the circumstances. There is a solid case that 1984 and even the move to Selhurst laid the foundations of the rebuilt Valley and eight Premier League seasons. Duchatelet can’t even claim to have laid the foundations for his own training ground redevelopment scheme.
Inbox me if it doesn’t come tomorrow. Doesn’t seem to be a problem generally - quite impressed at least one arrived in Scotland on Saturday considering it wasn’t posted in Welling until 5pm on Friday.
To Airman Brown,I totally agree that out of the ashes we became against all the odds,a respectable football club again,but my point is that those 10 days were the worst period for any supporter who lived through it.
To Airman Brown,I totally agree that out of the ashes we became against all the odds,a respectable football club again,but my point is that those 10 days were the worst period for any supporter who lived through it.
Agreed
these 4-5 years as Roland as owner are much much worse than any period of note since I've been watching since 1977
Good read, though. I don't know where else you will find such a detailed, withering, accurate criticism of the Duchatelet regime. Which is kind of worrying, really.
Can you find me a Charlton owner, in say the last 40 years, that you couldn't write a detailed, withering, accurate criticism of? I can think of 1 and a half out of about 7.
To be fair, you could find plenty of redeeming features in the Gliksten era, some in the Hulyer interlude and quite a few under John Fryer. Ditto the Spivs.
Duchatelet is unique in that it is very hard to find anything positive for which he has been responsible in five years.
c'mon that house DJ in Crossbars was banging !!!!!
The problem we have is that in spite of the way the club has been run by Hulyer,,the spivs,etc,these people I feel did have a genuine affection for the club,which probably outweighed their ability to actually to conduct the business properly.RD has no affection or feelings for the club whatsoever,but is obviously a very astute businessman.One feels that if only he had listened to people,and not charged into the club like a mad bull with his own warped philosophy,things may not have got this bad,who knows,but its too late now the damage is done,and Like everyone else I fear for the future,not entirely ruling out another feb27th 1984.
The problem we have is that in spite of the way the club has been run by Hulyer,,the spivs,etc,these people I feel did have a genuine affection for the club,which probably outweighed their ability to actually to conduct the business properly.RD has no affection or feelings for the club whatsoever,but is obviously a very astute businessman.One feels that if only he had listened to people,and not charged into the club like a mad bull with his own warped philosophy,things may not have got this bad,who knows,but its too late now the damage is done,and Like everyone else I fear for the future,not entirely ruling out another feb27th 1984.
“Very astute businessman” - people keep saying this despite the fact that his stewardship of Charlton points heavily to the exact opposite.
It’s as if they are saying, let’s discount what we know about and form a contrary view based on vague assumptions we haven’t explored in detail.
You dont become a billionaire without being an astute businessman,he is very successful in his own line of business but has obviously not got the same ability to run football clubs.
I find the comparisons to past owners a red herring, times have changed. RD does not care, never did. He is deluded- Thuram in goal, Fraye as manager, KM CEO. I think we have to make the logical assumption, why would anyone buy the club now if they did not have the intention of improving it.
You dont become a billionaire without being an astute businessman,he is very successful in his own line of business but has obviously not got the same ability to run football clubs.
He became a billionaire through patents not by running a business.
Comments
I say it does compare to losing your home.
We have a difference of opinion on that .
That's fine, you see it different.
Talk to Sue Parkes to hear anything positive about RD
I'm not an apologist for Roland Duchatelet.
I have done all the demos, walking out against Middlesbrough and went to the funeral of Cafc (where my son's footage was shown all over the world and Leicester)
My one and only argument is losing your ground and home for 7 years does compare to now.
I don't care if I'm the only person who feels that.
As @PragueAddick rightfully says it's more a football issue, than a Charlton issue. 20 years ago Murray, Sheepshanks and Garside were praised throughout football as examples of good owners. Look at their "legacy" now.
How many billionaires are there who are prepared to pump their own money into failing businesses? In most industries these clubs would just be wound up as they aren't going concerns.
Of course in those golden years, there was no Voice , and Charlton fans didn't see the need for a Supporters Trust either. Looking back on those times, I feel we all became a bit complacent. Now we have the Voice back, a strong CAST, CARD, and ROT. That's a wider base of activism, but nobody summarises the state of play better than Airman when he has the time to sit down and write with more care than most of us will take on CL.
Another thing that is important about this incarnation of Airman is his detailed grasp of the history of the club. That's invaluable for us all too, because you know what they say about people who ignore the lessons of history!
WAR are currently girding their cumulative loins in readiness for action & in fact have a meeting on Thursday....
....in Wetherspoons, Tonbridge.
FACT.
( Hope that's acceptable, AFKA)
We have had five years of this.
these 4-5 years as Roland as owner are much much worse than any period of note since I've been watching since 1977
It’s as if they are saying, let’s discount what we know about and form a contrary view based on vague assumptions we haven’t explored in detail.
RD does not care, never did. He is deluded- Thuram in goal, Fraye as manager, KM CEO.
I think we have to make the logical assumption, why would anyone buy the club now if they did not have the intention of improving it.