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Declan Rice chooses England

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    edited February 2019
    Anyone remember the rumours of di canio being called up by scotland, by qualifying through residency after a certain period if time? That would have been brilliant, although i cant beleive he never won an international cap for Italy! Rice has taken advantage of the ROI in my opinion, and jumped ship as soon as a better offer has come along. Footballers eh?
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    The country of birth is to me a bit simplistic to be a hard rule. Zaha moved to this country when 4. To me that makes him more English than say Eric Dier who moved to Portugal aged 7

    Your schooling and where you learned your sport are to me important factors. To use a cricket example, Strauss and KP, Strauss came to this country aged 6 and thus learned his cricket here. KP came to this country as an adult, i.e. his cricket education is South African. Strauss is English, KP is a Saffer

    Going back 20 years, the likes of McCague and Mulally played for England and were born in the UK, but having moved to Australia at a young age were basically Aussies...
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    So basically , if i've been on holiday to Ireland, drank a pint of guinness , or kissed the blarney stone (ooer er missus , it is Valentines day) i'm in?
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    So basically , if i've been on holiday to Ireland, drank a pint of guinness , or kissed the blarney stone (ooer er missus , it is Valentines day) i'm in?
    Not unless you have a passport.

    Declan has had a tough decision to make and I don't think the majority in Ireland will hold that against him. Its easy for many people to say nationality is an easy decision but for someone who is brought up with mixed tradition and nationality it must be far more difficult.

    Generally the feeling in Ireland is he shouldn't have taken those three senior caps if he wasn't sure, they could have gone to someone else. There's also a feeling that he was happy enough to play for us until England came knocking, and again, if he didn't really want to play for Ireland he shouldn't have done so. Though he did seem to really enjoy his time in the Irish national team and it didn't feel like he was using us as a backup at the time.

    I wish him all the best, though I'd probably boo him if he played for England against Ireland in future!

    By the way, have you all forgotten the debate around Leon Bailey, Adnan Januzaj and Carlo Cudicini? Every national team will pick the best 11 players who are eligible for their team regardless of their place of birth. I wish Ireland would spend more time and money developing youth internally rather than just hoping players will turn up in the UK who can play for us but if an English or Scottish (or anywhere else) born player with Irish parents or grandparents who feels Irish and wants to play for Ireland and is better than an Irish born equivalent player then I'm happy for him to represent us.
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    There was an Irish guy on talksport this morning who made the point that Ireland should copy Iceland and invest in quality pitches and developing their own players instead of taking the cheap option of nicking players from other country’s.

    Perhaps a tightening of the rules would help in encouraging Countries to do just this.

    I also think Irish supporters abuse of the kid is going to make young players think twice before signing up in future. All a bit OT, especially considering poaching players is what they do.
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    Redrobo said:
    There was an Irish guy on talksport this morning who made the point that Ireland should copy Iceland and invest in quality pitches and developing their own players instead of taking the cheap option of nicking players from other country’s.

    Perhaps a tightening of the rules would help in encouraging Countries to do just this.

    I also think Irish supporters abuse of the kid is going to make young players think twice before signing up in future. All a bit OT, especially considering poaching players is what they do.
    What Iceland did was amazing and shows what can be achieved. Really impressive that they did it with a team of genuine Icelanders too. Surely it's got to mean more for the supporters than having half your players born overseas and only qualifying through parents/grandparents/residency?
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    Redrobo said:
    There was an Irish guy on talksport this morning who made the point that Ireland should copy Iceland and invest in quality pitches and developing their own players instead of taking the cheap option of nicking players from other country’s.

    Perhaps a tightening of the rules would help in encouraging Countries to do just this.

    I also think Irish supporters abuse of the kid is going to make young players think twice before signing up in future. All a bit OT, especially considering poaching players is what they do.
    I often question the way the FIFA / UEFA votes are setup when it comes to deciding a Tournament host

    i.e. find it a bit harsh that Germany or England have the same voting power as a country like the Maldives or Fiji

    Naturally its always going to be hard for those Nations with such a small population yet think the voting should be determined on something like your World Ranking (especially now the loophole of protecting your ranking has been closed) e.g. Give a Nation in the top 50 has greater voting power than a Nation in the bottom 50

    Would hopefully give National FA's the incentive to improve their World Ranking rather than just corruptly taking the money for themselves (If that happens) - Of course one way to improve that is to work on the development of the game and players in your own country rather than relying on some player having a Great-Great Auntie who once stopped in the country on their way to somewhere else
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    I can't think of anything less important.

    So much so that I felt the need to comment.

    I'll get me coat.
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    Redrobo said:
    There was an Irish guy on talksport this morning who made the point that Ireland should copy Iceland and invest in quality pitches and developing their own players instead of taking the cheap option of nicking players from other country’s.

    Perhaps a tightening of the rules would help in encouraging Countries to do just this.

    I also think Irish supporters abuse of the kid is going to make young players think twice before signing up in future. All a bit OT, especially considering poaching players is what they do.
    I often question the way the FIFA / UEFA votes are setup when it comes to deciding a Tournament host

    i.e. find it a bit harsh that Germany or England have the same voting power as a country like the Maldives or Fiji

    Naturally its always going to be hard for those Nations with such a small population yet think the voting should be determined on something like your World Ranking (especially now the loophole of protecting your ranking has been closed) e.g. Give a Nation in the top 50 has greater voting power than a Nation in the bottom 50

    Would hopefully give National FA's the incentive to improve their World Ranking rather than just corruptly taking the money for themselves (If that happens) - Of course one way to improve that is to work on the development of the game and players in your own country rather than relying on some player having a Great-Great Auntie who once stopped in the country on their way to somewhere else
    next you'll be wanting the fa to give the top 5/6 clubs a bigger say in the running of the game than the rest of the clubs in the country
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    Redrobo said:
    There was an Irish guy on talksport this morning who made the point that Ireland should copy Iceland and invest in quality pitches and developing their own players instead of taking the cheap option of nicking players from other country’s.

    Perhaps a tightening of the rules would help in encouraging Countries to do just this.

    I also think Irish supporters abuse of the kid is going to make young players think twice before signing up in future. All a bit OT, especially considering poaching players is what they do.
    I often question the way the FIFA / UEFA votes are setup when it comes to deciding a Tournament host

    i.e. find it a bit harsh that Germany or England have the same voting power as a country like the Maldives or Fiji

    Naturally its always going to be hard for those Nations with such a small population yet think the voting should be determined on something like your World Ranking (especially now the loophole of protecting your ranking has been closed) e.g. Give a Nation in the top 50 has greater voting power than a Nation in the bottom 50

    Would hopefully give National FA's the incentive to improve their World Ranking rather than just corruptly taking the money for themselves (If that happens) - Of course one way to improve that is to work on the development of the game and players in your own country rather than relying on some player having a Great-Great Auntie who once stopped in the country on their way to somewhere else
    This is the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard.
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    It's not his parents anyway, it's his grandparents on one side, so he's basically English

    I hate the way nations fight over players, especially ones brought up in another country, if you can't produce your own find players with parents or even grandparents from your country. Wales in recent years have captured a number of young players born in England, who are basically English.

    England in football are usually the country losing out, though to be fair in other sports like cricket the boot is on the other foot, with all the Saffers who've played for England, Morgan who's Irish and Archer who could/should be playing for the Windies.
    really? who have England missed out on?


    Dean Kiely
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    el-pietro said:
    Redrobo said:
    There was an Irish guy on talksport this morning who made the point that Ireland should copy Iceland and invest in quality pitches and developing their own players instead of taking the cheap option of nicking players from other country’s.

    Perhaps a tightening of the rules would help in encouraging Countries to do just this.

    I also think Irish supporters abuse of the kid is going to make young players think twice before signing up in future. All a bit OT, especially considering poaching players is what they do.
    I often question the way the FIFA / UEFA votes are setup when it comes to deciding a Tournament host

    i.e. find it a bit harsh that Germany or England have the same voting power as a country like the Maldives or Fiji

    Naturally its always going to be hard for those Nations with such a small population yet think the voting should be determined on something like your World Ranking (especially now the loophole of protecting your ranking has been closed) e.g. Give a Nation in the top 50 has greater voting power than a Nation in the bottom 50

    Would hopefully give National FA's the incentive to improve their World Ranking rather than just corruptly taking the money for themselves (If that happens) - Of course one way to improve that is to work on the development of the game and players in your own country rather than relying on some player having a Great-Great Auntie who once stopped in the country on their way to somewhere else
    This is the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard.


    Nah, not having that.


    How about a female giving birth to a child without having procreated and said child goes on to walk on water and is resurrected from the dead? Try that on for size :wink:

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    It's not his parents anyway, it's his grandparents on one side, so he's basically English

    I hate the way nations fight over players, especially ones brought up in another country, if you can't produce your own find players with parents or even grandparents from your country. Wales in recent years have captured a number of young players born in England, who are basically English.

    England in football are usually the country losing out, though to be fair in other sports like cricket the boot is on the other foot, with all the Saffers who've played for England, Morgan who's Irish and Archer who could/should be playing for the Windies.
    really? who have England missed out on?


    Dean Kiely
    who was Ingerlands No1 when DK was at Charlton?
  • Options
    el-pietro said:
    Redrobo said:
    There was an Irish guy on talksport this morning who made the point that Ireland should copy Iceland and invest in quality pitches and developing their own players instead of taking the cheap option of nicking players from other country’s.

    Perhaps a tightening of the rules would help in encouraging Countries to do just this.

    I also think Irish supporters abuse of the kid is going to make young players think twice before signing up in future. All a bit OT, especially considering poaching players is what they do.
    I often question the way the FIFA / UEFA votes are setup when it comes to deciding a Tournament host

    i.e. find it a bit harsh that Germany or England have the same voting power as a country like the Maldives or Fiji

    Naturally its always going to be hard for those Nations with such a small population yet think the voting should be determined on something like your World Ranking (especially now the loophole of protecting your ranking has been closed) e.g. Give a Nation in the top 50 has greater voting power than a Nation in the bottom 50

    Would hopefully give National FA's the incentive to improve their World Ranking rather than just corruptly taking the money for themselves (If that happens) - Of course one way to improve that is to work on the development of the game and players in your own country rather than relying on some player having a Great-Great Auntie who once stopped in the country on their way to somewhere else
    This is the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard.
    So what do you suggest to improve it?

    Lets hear your genius ideas?
  • Options
    It's not his parents anyway, it's his grandparents on one side, so he's basically English

    I hate the way nations fight over players, especially ones brought up in another country, if you can't produce your own find players with parents or even grandparents from your country. Wales in recent years have captured a number of young players born in England, who are basically English.

    England in football are usually the country losing out, though to be fair in other sports like cricket the boot is on the other foot, with all the Saffers who've played for England, Morgan who's Irish and Archer who could/should be playing for the Windies.
    really? who have England missed out on?


    Dean Kiely
    who was Ingerlands No1 when DK was at Charlton?
    Seaman in 2002 and Robinson in 2006.
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    Why are people bothered by who players want to play for on the international stage? 

    It's their choice if they're good enough and meet criteria for more than one side. 
  • Options
    It's not his parents anyway, it's his grandparents on one side, so he's basically English

    I hate the way nations fight over players, especially ones brought up in another country, if you can't produce your own find players with parents or even grandparents from your country. Wales in recent years have captured a number of young players born in England, who are basically English.

    England in football are usually the country losing out, though to be fair in other sports like cricket the boot is on the other foot, with all the Saffers who've played for England, Morgan who's Irish and Archer who could/should be playing for the Windies.
    really? who have England missed out on?


    Dean Kiely
    who was Ingerlands No1 when DK was at Charlton?
    Seaman in 2002 and Robinson in 2006.
    well personally i'm glad DK played for Ireland


  • Options
    el-pietro said:
    Redrobo said:
    There was an Irish guy on talksport this morning who made the point that Ireland should copy Iceland and invest in quality pitches and developing their own players instead of taking the cheap option of nicking players from other country’s.

    Perhaps a tightening of the rules would help in encouraging Countries to do just this.

    I also think Irish supporters abuse of the kid is going to make young players think twice before signing up in future. All a bit OT, especially considering poaching players is what they do.
    I often question the way the FIFA / UEFA votes are setup when it comes to deciding a Tournament host

    i.e. find it a bit harsh that Germany or England have the same voting power as a country like the Maldives or Fiji

    Naturally its always going to be hard for those Nations with such a small population yet think the voting should be determined on something like your World Ranking (especially now the loophole of protecting your ranking has been closed) e.g. Give a Nation in the top 50 has greater voting power than a Nation in the bottom 50

    Would hopefully give National FA's the incentive to improve their World Ranking rather than just corruptly taking the money for themselves (If that happens) - Of course one way to improve that is to work on the development of the game and players in your own country rather than relying on some player having a Great-Great Auntie who once stopped in the country on their way to somewhere else
    This is the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard.
    So what do you suggest to improve it?

    Lets hear your genius ideas?
    I don't claim to have a genius idea that will solve everything, but you can't have the top countries setting rules to suit themselves at the detriment of the rest of the world. We're already seeing the effects of that in the club game.
  • Options
    It's not his parents anyway, it's his grandparents on one side, so he's basically English

    I hate the way nations fight over players, especially ones brought up in another country, if you can't produce your own find players with parents or even grandparents from your country. Wales in recent years have captured a number of young players born in England, who are basically English.

    England in football are usually the country losing out, though to be fair in other sports like cricket the boot is on the other foot, with all the Saffers who've played for England, Morgan who's Irish and Archer who could/should be playing for the Windies.
    really? who have England missed out on?


    Dean Kiely
    Jack, I think you start it.
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  • Options
    edited February 2019
    el-pietro said:
    el-pietro said:
    Redrobo said:
    There was an Irish guy on talksport this morning who made the point that Ireland should copy Iceland and invest in quality pitches and developing their own players instead of taking the cheap option of nicking players from other country’s.

    Perhaps a tightening of the rules would help in encouraging Countries to do just this.

    I also think Irish supporters abuse of the kid is going to make young players think twice before signing up in future. All a bit OT, especially considering poaching players is what they do.
    I often question the way the FIFA / UEFA votes are setup when it comes to deciding a Tournament host

    i.e. find it a bit harsh that Germany or England have the same voting power as a country like the Maldives or Fiji

    Naturally its always going to be hard for those Nations with such a small population yet think the voting should be determined on something like your World Ranking (especially now the loophole of protecting your ranking has been closed) e.g. Give a Nation in the top 50 has greater voting power than a Nation in the bottom 50

    Would hopefully give National FA's the incentive to improve their World Ranking rather than just corruptly taking the money for themselves (If that happens) - Of course one way to improve that is to work on the development of the game and players in your own country rather than relying on some player having a Great-Great Auntie who once stopped in the country on their way to somewhere else
    This is the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard.
    So what do you suggest to improve it?

    Lets hear your genius ideas?
    I don't claim to have a genius idea that will solve everything, but you can't have the top countries setting rules to suit themselves at the detriment of the rest of the world. We're already seeing the effects of that in the club game.
    Why should a country who are never going to qualify for a World Cup have an equal vote with a country like Brazil, it's ridiculous.
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    Dazzler21 said:
    Why are people bothered by who players want to play for on the international stage? 

    It's their choice if they're good enough and meet criteria for more than one side. 
    The criteria are stupid, that's why, once you've represented a country that should be it, you're committed, friendly game or not.
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    wilifred zaha 
    2011England U192(0)
    2012–2013England U2113(1)
    2012–2013England2(0)
    2017–Ivory Coast8(2)


    alex iwobi 
    2011–2012England U167(1)
    2013England U173(0)
    2013England U181(0)
    2015–Nigeria21(5

    both of the above probably factor in that the ivory coast and nigerian youth sides would not of played games locally so flights costs etc would not of been paid for. 

    zaha is actually worse not just for the fact that hes a diving palace prick but he was also capped. 




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    and also if the other way round we would all be fuming so lets not pretend we wouldn't, although he is a lot better than that other twat grealish
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    el-pietro said:
    el-pietro said:
    Redrobo said:
    There was an Irish guy on talksport this morning who made the point that Ireland should copy Iceland and invest in quality pitches and developing their own players instead of taking the cheap option of nicking players from other country’s.

    Perhaps a tightening of the rules would help in encouraging Countries to do just this.

    I also think Irish supporters abuse of the kid is going to make young players think twice before signing up in future. All a bit OT, especially considering poaching players is what they do.
    I often question the way the FIFA / UEFA votes are setup when it comes to deciding a Tournament host

    i.e. find it a bit harsh that Germany or England have the same voting power as a country like the Maldives or Fiji

    Naturally its always going to be hard for those Nations with such a small population yet think the voting should be determined on something like your World Ranking (especially now the loophole of protecting your ranking has been closed) e.g. Give a Nation in the top 50 has greater voting power than a Nation in the bottom 50

    Would hopefully give National FA's the incentive to improve their World Ranking rather than just corruptly taking the money for themselves (If that happens) - Of course one way to improve that is to work on the development of the game and players in your own country rather than relying on some player having a Great-Great Auntie who once stopped in the country on their way to somewhere else
    This is the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard.
    So what do you suggest to improve it?

    Lets hear your genius ideas?
    I don't claim to have a genius idea that will solve everything, but you can't have the top countries setting rules to suit themselves at the detriment of the rest of the world. We're already seeing the effects of that in the club game.
    The club game is different to the International game though

    In the former the top teams shouldn't have a say because its purely on who can spend the most amount of players to hoover up all the talent

    The International game on the other hand is a completely different beast; i.e. take Brazil | Germany | Spain for example... All three in recent years have dominated on the World Stage, all three flopped at this World Cup though because at the moment its the likes of Belgium | France that are producing the better kids through the work they're doing with their Age Groups - Above all Croatia are a perfect example of how the system should work properly; In 1993 they were down in 122nd (not helped by the breakup of Yugoslavia etc.) but they've worked on producing players in Modric | Rakitic etc. and have gotten the rewards of that by being in the top four now

    Why shouldnt that be the route for other Nations who partly decide their vote on corruption and bribary?
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    el-pietro said:
    el-pietro said:
    Redrobo said:
    There was an Irish guy on talksport this morning who made the point that Ireland should copy Iceland and invest in quality pitches and developing their own players instead of taking the cheap option of nicking players from other country’s.

    Perhaps a tightening of the rules would help in encouraging Countries to do just this.

    I also think Irish supporters abuse of the kid is going to make young players think twice before signing up in future. All a bit OT, especially considering poaching players is what they do.
    I often question the way the FIFA / UEFA votes are setup when it comes to deciding a Tournament host

    i.e. find it a bit harsh that Germany or England have the same voting power as a country like the Maldives or Fiji

    Naturally its always going to be hard for those Nations with such a small population yet think the voting should be determined on something like your World Ranking (especially now the loophole of protecting your ranking has been closed) e.g. Give a Nation in the top 50 has greater voting power than a Nation in the bottom 50

    Would hopefully give National FA's the incentive to improve their World Ranking rather than just corruptly taking the money for themselves (If that happens) - Of course one way to improve that is to work on the development of the game and players in your own country rather than relying on some player having a Great-Great Auntie who once stopped in the country on their way to somewhere else
    This is the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard.
    So what do you suggest to improve it?

    Lets hear your genius ideas?
    I don't claim to have a genius idea that will solve everything, but you can't have the top countries setting rules to suit themselves at the detriment of the rest of the world. We're already seeing the effects of that in the club game.
    The club game is different to the International game though

    In the former the top teams shouldn't have a say because its purely on who can spend the most amount of players to hoover up all the talent

    The International game on the other hand is a completely different beast; i.e. take Brazil | Germany | Spain for example... All three in recent years have dominated on the World Stage, all three flopped at this World Cup though because at the moment its the likes of Belgium | France that are producing the better kids through the work they're doing with their Age Groups - Above all Croatia are a perfect example of how the system should work properly; In 1993 they were down in 122nd (not helped by the breakup of Yugoslavia etc.) but they've worked on producing players in Modric | Rakitic etc. and have gotten the rewards of that by being in the top four now

    Why shouldnt that be the route for other Nations who partly decide their vote on corruption and bribary?
    Deco, Costa, Sterling, Klose etc 
  • Options
    edited February 2019
    wilifred zaha 
    2011England U192(0)
    2012–2013England U2113(1)
    2012–2013England2(0)
    2017–Ivory Coast8(2)


    alex iwobi 
    2011–2012England U167(1)
    2013England U173(0)
    2013England U181(0)
    2015–Nigeria21(5

    both of the above probably factor in that the ivory coast and nigerian youth sides would not of played games locally so flights costs etc would not of been paid for. 

    zaha is actually worse not just for the fact that hes a diving palace prick but he was also capped. 




    Victor Moses is similar though he came over quite late (aged 11)

    2005 England U16 1 (0)
    2006–2007 England U17 15 (9)
    2008–2009 England U19 12 (2)
    2010 England U21 1 (0)
    2012–2018 Nigeria 37 (12)
  • Options
    edited February 2019
    el-pietro said:
    el-pietro said:
    Redrobo said:
    There was an Irish guy on talksport this morning who made the point that Ireland should copy Iceland and invest in quality pitches and developing their own players instead of taking the cheap option of nicking players from other country’s.

    Perhaps a tightening of the rules would help in encouraging Countries to do just this.

    I also think Irish supporters abuse of the kid is going to make young players think twice before signing up in future. All a bit OT, especially considering poaching players is what they do.
    I often question the way the FIFA / UEFA votes are setup when it comes to deciding a Tournament host

    i.e. find it a bit harsh that Germany or England have the same voting power as a country like the Maldives or Fiji

    Naturally its always going to be hard for those Nations with such a small population yet think the voting should be determined on something like your World Ranking (especially now the loophole of protecting your ranking has been closed) e.g. Give a Nation in the top 50 has greater voting power than a Nation in the bottom 50

    Would hopefully give National FA's the incentive to improve their World Ranking rather than just corruptly taking the money for themselves (If that happens) - Of course one way to improve that is to work on the development of the game and players in your own country rather than relying on some player having a Great-Great Auntie who once stopped in the country on their way to somewhere else
    This is the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard.
    So what do you suggest to improve it?

    Lets hear your genius ideas?
    I don't claim to have a genius idea that will solve everything, but you can't have the top countries setting rules to suit themselves at the detriment of the rest of the world. We're already seeing the effects of that in the club game.
    The club game is different to the International game though

    In the former the top teams shouldn't have a say because its purely on who can spend the most amount of players to hoover up all the talent

    The International game on the other hand is a completely different beast; i.e. take Brazil | Germany | Spain for example... All three in recent years have dominated on the World Stage, all three flopped at this World Cup though because at the moment its the likes of Belgium | France that are producing the better kids through the work they're doing with their Age Groups - Above all Croatia are a perfect example of how the system should work properly; In 1993 they were down in 122nd (not helped by the breakup of Yugoslavia etc.) but they've worked on producing players in Modric | Rakitic etc. and have gotten the rewards of that by being in the top four now

    Why shouldnt that be the route for other Nations who partly decide their vote on corruption and bribary?
    Deco, Costa, Sterling, Klose etc 
    They weren't paid by the respective Nations to turn their backs though were they?

    Deco wasnt getting picked by Brazil so got Portuguese citizenship from his time with FC Porto
    Diego Costa I agree with, he was a prick like Declan Rice who turned his back on his home Nation after being picked which should be stopped
    Raheem Sterling chose England over Jamaica as imagine he wanted more chance of success (At least he didnt play for Jamaica first)
    Miroslav Klose was the same as Sterling, had a Polish and German Passport but rejected the former

    In one sense your right though; whilst forcing Countries to concentrate on their own players there should be rules to stop a player from representing another country after playing at least a friendly or even for the U21s - The second line you've highlighted in bold was more the fact that someone like Spain cant go and do a Man City and get Neymar or Kane to play for them, that would be wrong on so many levels and kill International Football for me

    In addition I probably should have said in my opening post yet with regards to higher ranked Nations having more power I dont think there should be a huge gap between their say and the other Nations - i.e. at the moment the top six like you say dictate terms and the rest can go sod themselves; the way I see it is the top 50 should get the most voting power but if they vote for something and the other 150 Nations all disagree then it doesnt happen: e.g.

    A vote for the top 50 Nations is worth 4-points
    next 50 Nations have a vote that is worth 3-points
    next 50 Nations have a vote worth 2-points
    the last however many (as cant remember if there are more or less than 200 Nations in FIFA) get a vote worth one point

    Means if England | Germany | Brazil all want to force something through then they'd have 12-points

    If everyone else abstained then there would need to be 13-Nations (right at the bottom) that need to reject it to not be passed
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