You wouldn't necessarily have to fund the entire amount anyway- lets say we agreed a figure of £15m for the assets from Roland ( probably fanciful but bear with me) , we agreed a 50% mortgage with a bank at say 5% interest, i.e £7.5m and a seperate back to back deal with the Aussies or whoever to pay a sensible rent to cover the interest and capital repayments over 25 years , that's c£500k a year to rent the facilities and pay the mortgage off which is reasonable and at the end of it the supporters own the ground. That still means we'd have to raise £7.5m , which is 750 rich supporters at £10k each or something lower with more people. I realise that there are lots of IFs and BUTs in here, but honestly you'd think, someone would be up for a deal of this nature.
It's the lender you would need to convince.
The mortgage would be in the name of the owners - i.e. the fan investors, as would the responsiblity for payments of the 50% capital and accruing interest.
The only way I could ever seeing it work would be ownership of the freeholds, charge free.
True Bob but the lender would have the security of the asset which is pretty strong - the key would be to try to back to back the deal with a strong covenant from the tenant.
I think people might be forgetting that it’s not just Roland you need to deal with. You can’t split the ground from the team without paying off the old directors, as the ground is their secured asset.
I think people might be forgetting that it’s not just Roland you need to deal with. You can’t split the ground from the team without paying off the old directors, as the ground is their secured asset.
One would hope that at least some of 'the old directors' might be supportive.
that said we know at least one almost certainly wouldn't be!
When we built the North Stand I put in £25k and got two 20 year season tickets - it wasn't the greatest financial deal for me but it helped the club at the time. It would only need 300 to do the same again to raise £7.5m and give them all the same deal again. Then we get a mortgage for the rest - simples
Reading a lot of good points above and all very valid. At the end of the day it’s something worth exploring and after the last couple of years of disappointment after disappointment it at least gives a little bit of hope.
Reading a lot of good points above and all very valid. At the end of the day it’s something worth exploring and after the last couple of years of disappointment after disappointment it at least gives a little bit of hope.
You wouldn't necessarily have to fund the entire amount anyway- lets say we agreed a figure of £15m for the assets from Roland ( probably fanciful but bear with me) , we agreed a 50% mortgage with a bank at say 5% interest, i.e £7.5m and a seperate back to back deal with the Aussies or whoever to pay a sensible rent to cover the interest and capital repayments over 25 years , that's c£500k a year to rent the facilities and pay the mortgage off which is reasonable and at the end of it the supporters own the ground. That still means we'd have to raise £7.5m , which is 750 rich supporters at £10k each or something lower with more people. I realise that there are lots of IFs and BUTs in here, but honestly you'd think, someone would be up for a deal of this nature.
Tell me which bank you think would lend Charlton supporters £7.5M ?
You wouldn't necessarily have to fund the entire amount anyway- lets say we agreed a figure of £15m for the assets from Roland ( probably fanciful but bear with me) , we agreed a 50% mortgage with a bank at say 5% interest, i.e £7.5m and a seperate back to back deal with the Aussies or whoever to pay a sensible rent to cover the interest and capital repayments over 25 years , that's c£500k a year to rent the facilities and pay the mortgage off which is reasonable and at the end of it the supporters own the ground. That still means we'd have to raise £7.5m , which is 750 rich supporters at £10k each or something lower with more people. I realise that there are lots of IFs and BUTs in here, but honestly you'd think, someone would be up for a deal of this nature.
Tell me which bank you think would lend Charlton supporters £7.5M ?
Indeed. When is the last time a bank lent money to a money losing lower league club? Whomever runs that bank needs to be sacked. Banks exist to make money, not for social good. Seriously, can anyone tell me the last time a bank had lent money to a League One club that was losing 30-40% on assets annually? I am really curious.
I’m on a bit of a roll now but surely if we could get a face to face with Roland we might come up with a solution - in my example above instead of a bank loan for the remaining say c£7.5m we agree that he retains 50% until it’s paid off over 25 years but we keep a golden share so he can’t sell it to anyone else , etc, etc Surely it’s time for some innovative solutions - we need to get CAST to try and get him to tell us what he actually wants ( realistically ie that someone might actually pay and it’s actually worth given the restrictions on planning change of use etc) All this nonsense about NDA’s is just flim flam - I buy and sell businesses for a living but it doesn’t stop me telling anyone and everyone what the asking price is
I’m on a bit of a roll now but surely if we could get a face to face with Roland we might come up with a solution - in my example above instead of a bank loan for the remaining say c£7.5m we agree that he retains 50% until it’s paid off over 25 years but we keep a golden share so he can’t sell it to anyone else , etc, etc Surely it’s time for some innovative solutions - we need to get CAST to try and get him to tell us what he actually wants ( realistically ie that someone might actually pay and it’s actually worth given the restrictions on planning change of use etc) All this nonsense about NDA’s is just flim flam - I buy and sell businesses for a living but it doesn’t stop me telling anyone and everyone what the asking price is
I may not agree on the feasibility of the ideas, but I do appreciate your creativity and effort on this. Without it, I would be in a worse mood about recent turn of events.
When we built the North Stand I put in £25k and got two 20 year season tickets - it wasn't the greatest financial deal for me but it helped the club at the time. It would only need 300 to do the same again to raise £7.5m and give them all the same deal again. Then we get a mortgage for the rest - simples
I've just told the wife were selling the home and downsizing
To everyone who's comparing this to subscribing to shares in the football club all those years ago, this is quite different. We wouldn't be having anything to do with the club, we'd be buying one, or two if the training ground is included, physical assets which would then be rented to the club to cover the stadium (and training ground) running costs.
Anybody else notice a lack of input by a certain member who has a good knowledge of figures and values of the valley ...not a dig if he doesn't want to get involved.
Anybody else notice a lack of input by a certain member who has a good knowledge of figures and values of the valley ...not a dig if he doesn't want to get involved.
Me again - so if we need 300 people to put down £25k each and understandably they can’t all lay their hands on the cash so if they add it to their mortgage they end up paying back an extra £113 a month for which they get 2 season tickets for 25 years sounds like a bargain - we’ll sort of ! - now we’ve raised £7.5m maybe even £10m if we could get 400 people on the scheme.
Me again - so if we need 300 people to put down £25k each and understandably they can’t all lay their hands on the cash so if they add it to their mortgage they end up paying back an extra £113 a month for which they get 2 season tickets for 25 years sounds like a bargain - we’ll sort of ! - now we’ve raised £7.5m maybe even £10m if we could get 400 people on the scheme.
I feel like a right party pooper, but can’t see it working. I think Roland would be the main hurdle. As soon as you approach him with an offer of, say £14m, he’ll say he wants £44m. And if you ask how much he wants, he’ll say £50m. Or £70m. Have you forgotten who we’re dealing with here?
James we have to break the logjam somehow. It’s all very well Roland wanting £40-70m but he’s never going to get that - as I have said before I’d like £10m for my house but no one is going to pay me that- it’s about trying a different approach that satisfies his ego - maybe selling to a supporter led initiative would let him leave with some dignity for his “social experiment “
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that said we know at least one almost certainly wouldn't be!
All this nonsense about NDA’s is just flim flam - I buy and sell businesses for a living but it doesn’t stop me telling anyone and everyone what the asking price is
sounds like a bargain - we’ll sort of ! - now we’ve raised £7.5m maybe even £10m if we could get 400 people on the scheme.
I think Roland would be the main hurdle. As soon as you approach him with an offer of, say £14m, he’ll say he wants £44m. And if you ask how much he wants, he’ll say £50m. Or £70m.
Have you forgotten who we’re dealing with here?
£25k not a chance.
To me. All you are is a username. I do not know you.
May I ask a question though.
What is your profession? Just out of curiosity.
I would like to think that it is something that pays very well.
Life does not really serve an awful lot of justice though.