Personally, I couldn't care less what Blackpool or Coventry fans think. Who knows what they would have done if they had had Duchatelet rather than Oyston or SISU as their owner.
Golfie, would you allow an arbitrary panel to set the value of your house or car?
It's a private business, I don't see how anyone can force RD to sell for a price he doesn't agree with, assuming he continues to not break the law.
Isn't that what an estate agent does?
I know what i did (and i assume others do too) is to get 3-4 valuations and then sell at the highest price i'm happy with that is realistically going to get me a buyer.
If an independent panel decide a club is worth around 30-35m, then although you might get lucky and find someone willing to pay 40-45m for it, but it stands to reason you probably won't sell it for 55-60m.
Yeah, but just because a estate agent says your house is worth X... doesnt mean you have to listen to them. Although, I'm not sure many people list a house for 500k which is only worth 200k and expect it to sell.
Exactly, which was why i said "sell at the highest price i'm happy with that is realistically going to get me a buyer."
Roland must know deep down (or i'd hope he'd at least have been advised) that he isn't going to shift a club that is probably worth 35m at most.........for 55-60m.
Are people saying there is some merit in this latest statement? I can't see any. Can anybody winkle out any positives?
The only positive things I can see is that he is not planning to separate the club and the Valley.
Also that there are talks to improve Lee Bowyer's contract (not that RD will be guaranteed to improve terms for the only manager at Charlton under his ownership that has managed and succeeded with the constraints that Duchatelet sets - and the only manager that may help Charlton avoid relegation given the low budget).
Running a club in the
Championship is expensive but going on about it negatively on the club OS is hardly like
to encourage sale.
Talking down the asset he is trying to sell whilst trying to get back the maximum amount of money he has loaned to the club. Its madness. Then deflecting blame onto ex directors small loans and not his sale price as a reason for not selling the club.
Some of the other stuff, what is he putting in his tea ?
I'm not convinced he wont. His word and that of his cronies means very little. If the Aussies do ever take over it will be interesting to see what financial arrangements are in place and whether RD has any future interests.
Personally, I couldn't care less what Blackpool or Coventry fans think. Who knows what they would have done if they had had Duchatelet rather than Oyston or SISU as their owner.
This.
Each club has it's own enemy and therefore it's own strategy how to defeat that enemy as there isn't a one size fits all solution.
For me both of those clubs have had it far worse than us with Roland even though we've had it bad no doubt.
Loving Roland's confidence that by exposing three Directors yet to agree a price (four including David White) the fans would put them under intense pressure to cut a deal. My reading of the mood is that we should be starting a collection for statues of them.
Personally, I couldn't care less what Blackpool or Coventry fans think. Who knows what they would have done if they had had Duchatelet rather than Oyston or SISU as their owner.
Neither do I, my point is that they are a sample of the rest of the football world who now view us slightly less sympathetically than they did before.
Non-violent, intelligent, media friendly activity rescued the club and brought it home to the Valley, at a time when everyone assumed we were a bunch of brain dead hooligans...
The media friendly bit is key here. I have already seen Blackpool and Coventry fans questioning the attendances at the semi and play off final, implying that is more about results than anything else.
We haven't had any match day protests since Lee Bowyer has been manager, when we have won plenty more games than we have lost. If however they resumed if Lee walks or say we loose our 1st 3 or 4 games next season we need to make it very clear of the reason for any protest. Else we risk looking like entitled, petulant children who throw our plastic pigs out the pram when we loose. That hasn't happened so far but after a 2 year absence it would be easy to make that conclusion.
Sadly too many of our fans were exactly all about results. I don’t believe CARD we’re at all and still aren’t, despite what people want to believe, but they didn’t have the wider support after so many fans were happy when Robinson took over. Bowyer did an unbelievable job last season but the underlying problems are still there obviously and will unravel again quickly. I will attend if Bowyer is retained, I feel really bad i’ve deprived my son for the last couple of years. If I could I would have just done all the aways and perhaps the same this season but for various reasons that’s just not possible for us and I’d hate for him to lose his love for Charlton. But really not sure about protesting anymore we had great momentum and wide support not sure we’d get any of it now. No one knows what the answer is, RD is bat shit crazy and I wouldn’t put anything past him.
It isn't a reasonable statement and merely highlights the issue with selling the club. Property/land values in London are irrelevant as you have a football club on the land. He fails to understand this in his selling price so it is hard to find a buyer. He wants a lot more than he paid for it which says it all.
All the other stuff is irrelevant until we see Bowyer signing a contract and the business we do. Actions will always speak louder than words on that score.
It isn't a reasonable statement and merely highlights the issue with selling the club. Property/land values in London are irrelevant as you have a football club on the land. He fails to understand this in his selling price so it is hard to find a buyer. He wants a lot more than he paid for it which says it all.
All the other stuff is irrelevant until we see Bowyer signing a contract and the business we do. Actions will always speak louder than words on that score.
Sorry Muttley but the land value being in London is not irrelevant.
The land value of The Valley must be greater than the land value of say Wigan's ground (all things being equal).
The land value will still increase/decrease over time, even though it can't be developed.
If this is not true then the value of the land would be the same as in lets say 1905, which it clearly isn't.
I've said it before an analogy for me would be a valuable painting.
Ok you can't do anything with it other than look at it, but it can still increase/decrease in value.
NB I think some people get the feeling I'm supporting RD. I'm not what I'd like to happen to the bloke I would not put on a public forum.
All I am trying to do is state the facts as I see them and try to understand what is going on.
If RD sells up this week I will be ecstatic, but I do want to understand who is actually buying us and with whose money.
I can't recall Henry Irving's questions in full on a new buyer, but they are the answers we need.
It is irrelevant unless you build houses on it. You can't build houses on it so there you have it!
If the value of the land does not increase and is irrelevant then the club is worth zero. Look at the accounts and you will see this is not true. Once again I'm not defending RD here, I'm just stating the facts as I see them.
The driver seems to concern the mindset of singularity (Me, mine), rather than the mindset of collectivism (Us, all) - and the betterment [for us all] that the latter might realise.
I spoke with others and tried to win them over. I failed. Their stance was "I've always gone. I can't stop now, can I?" etc. Thus, the ownership was afforded a willing audience...and credence. That ownership endures.
Now, after the digs of "Your boycott is useless...Why don't you give up?...Come to the Play-offs.. You can't miss a Wembley final" , etc .... the moans, groans and anxieties return.
The football has improved but, lose, draw or win, THE OWNERSHIP PROBLEM NEVER WENT AWAY.
I applaud the efforts of Lee, JJ, and Steve Gallen. And I look forward to the return of the real CAFC - both on, and off, the pitch.
Divisional status and who the manager is are of concern to many. But the greatest concern is the ownership of CAFC. Fund it and support it. Or oppose it. The choice was, and is, yours.
It is irrelevant unless you build houses on it. You can't build houses on it so there you have it!
If the value of the land does not increase and is irrelevant then the club is worth zero. Look at the accounts and you will see this is not true. Once again I'm not defending RD here, I'm just stating the facts as I see them.
You mean money you can't spend? What value is that to a buyer?
Seth if you have ever been nicked then you know it's not the grief on you but it's the grief your family and loved ones go through----- the possible loosing of your job--- name in the press etc.
It's only 18 months ago two of us had to go through the court process twice because of this club ,it's shi t so called senior management and their spin doctor s, before the utter bollox got thrown out. Hated the grief that gave to my wife and I know NLA felt the same.
Don't underestimate RD and his minions viciousness or their tame plod and spin doctors
The vindictive regime damaged you all and eventually there will be a reckoning. For me I feel have nothing to lose in terms of a job/family dynamic. I am absolutely not suggesting any violent action (actually I'm not suggesting anything at the moment) but there are plenty of examples of non violent protests that have an impact.
What impact did the extension rebellion have, other than to piss off ordinary Londoners?
Nothing has changed.
A reduction in planning permissions granted for granny annexes and loft conversions?
If you sold your house, but with a clause that you can still live in it, and when you die, your relatives can continue living in it, and then their relatives etc... Well it will have a value you can show me, but nobody is going to buy it at that value are they?
I call BS. The so-called "value" in that statement was totally made up and pulled out of their asses. That is not at all the accounting value. It's like me deciding my car is worth £41M. Means jack shit.
In a sub-note, they show the actual accounting value, which is half that amount. Surprise! And they admit that the higher valuation was calculated "by the directors." In other words, Rat, Nightmeire and Murray. How trustworthy is that? And that number is based upon that of consultants hired by Rat to raise the value in a so-called "study." Uhhhhh.....huhhhhh.
There were accounts more recently, but as at 30/6/2017.
The combined land values of The Valley and Sparrows Lane was £11.7M.
The cost to build the buildings thereon and leave for 20 years so they are in the same condition as present is £42.7M.
So if someone wanted to purchase The Valley & Sparrows Lane as it is now for the purposes of professional football, the value is £54.4M according to the accounts as at 30/6/2017.
(Assuming Idle Hans was correct when I asked for assistance in understanding the accounts. His reasoning is all in the link below).
I'm not offering an opinion myself I'm simply restating the values according to Idle Hans.
If you sold your house, but with a clause that you can still live in it, and when you die, your relatives can continue living in it, and then their relatives etc... Well it will have a value you can show me, but nobody is going to buy it at that value are they?
I love it when we do a house analogy. Cheer Muttley. This may be above my paid grade but as I decided on a repayment mortgage when most financial advisors were saying take out a endowment back in the wild days, I feel able to add my views that why wasn't Orient or other smaller London clubs sold for a lot more if being a London club and the value of the land comes into the equation ?
If you sold your house, but with a clause that you can still live in it, and when you die, your relatives can continue living in it, and then their relatives etc... Well it will have a value you can show me, but nobody is going to buy it at that value are they?
I love it when we do a house analogy. Cheer Muttley. This may be above my paid grade but as I decided on a repayment mortgage when most financial advisors were saying take out a endowment back in the wild days, I feel able to add my views that why wasn't Orient or other smaller London clubs sold for a lot more if being a London club and the value of the land comes into the equation ?
Golfie, would you allow an arbitrary panel to set the value of your house or car?
It's a private business, I don't see how anyone can force RD to sell for a price he doesn't agree with, assuming he continues to not break the law.
Isn't that what an estate agent does?
I know what i did (and i assume others do too) is to get 3-4 valuations and then sell at the highest price i'm happy with that is realistically going to get me a buyer.
If an independent panel decide a club is worth around 30-35m, then although you might get lucky and find someone willing to pay 40-45m for it, but it stands to reason you probably won't sell it for 55-60m.
But unless you are missing mortgage payments, no one is forcing you into a sale, you'd be totally free to ignore the professional advise and continue wasting everyone's time.
Not forgetting in the event of a relocation that value if not more could be realised..
And therein lies the danger for us of RD making the price all about the property.
It depnds on the buyer's intentions of course. You could still have a buyer who is serious about the club and sees a new purpose built stadium as part of the future. On the other hand you could get Sebastian Sainsbury...
Not forgetting in the event of a relocation that value if not more could be realised..
It couldn’t necessarily be realised at all, because of the planning and practical constraints on the site.
If there was a profitable scheme to redevelop The Valley for housing you can bet it would have been identified by now.
The club was owned by property speculators between 2010 and 2014, and the only one they identified involved the release of much more valuable land for housing on the peninsula. That was where the value was, not in Floyd Road.
Duchatelet has a scheme to build tower blocks all over the ground, but it was drawn up by his Dutch architect and doesn’t properly address the site issues. As far as I know it’s never even been shown to the council. It’s purpose is to justify his valuation of the club, which cannot be supported by the business or the actual value of the assets.
@Airman Brown What do you think is the Council's current thinking regarding the Valley? I remember a new plan for Charlton being shared on here a while ago, showing the Charlton area between the Valley and the river being, basically, taken upmarket. I seem to recall some unease that the Valley wasn't even clearly recognised on that plan. Would they in fact like to move us away from the Valley? (while hopefully recognising how politically charged such an approach is). And would they prioritise social housing for a vacated Valley site?
Conversations with senior Cllrs at Greenwich I've had, is there is no chance they would allow the Valley to be converted to housing without an almighty fight.
Comments
Roland must know deep down (or i'd hope he'd at least have been advised) that he isn't going to shift a club that is probably worth 35m at most.........for 55-60m.
Each club has it's own enemy and therefore it's own strategy how to defeat that enemy as there isn't a one size fits all solution.
For me both of those clubs have had it far worse than us with Roland even though we've had it bad no doubt.
All the other stuff is irrelevant until we see Bowyer signing a contract and the business we do. Actions will always speak louder than words on that score.
The land value of The Valley must be greater than the land value of say Wigan's ground (all things being equal).
The land value will still increase/decrease over time, even though it can't be developed.
If this is not true then the value of the land would be the same as in lets say 1905, which it clearly isn't.
I've said it before an analogy for me would be a valuable painting.
Ok you can't do anything with it other than look at it, but it can still increase/decrease in value.
NB I think some people get the feeling I'm supporting RD. I'm not what I'd like to happen to the bloke I would not put on a public forum.
All I am trying to do is state the facts as I see them and try to understand what is going on.
If RD sells up this week I will be ecstatic, but I do want to understand who is actually buying us and with whose money.
I can't recall Henry Irving's questions in full on a new buyer, but they are the answers we need.
Look at the accounts and you will see this is not true.
Once again I'm not defending RD here, I'm just stating the facts as I see them.
The driver seems to concern the mindset of singularity (Me, mine), rather than the mindset of collectivism (Us, all) - and the betterment [for us all] that the latter might realise.
I spoke with others and tried to win them over. I failed. Their stance was "I've always gone. I can't stop now, can I?" etc. Thus, the ownership was afforded a willing audience...and credence. That ownership endures.
Now, after the digs of "Your boycott is useless...Why don't you give up?...Come to the Play-offs.. You can't miss a Wembley final" , etc .... the moans, groans and anxieties return.
The football has improved but, lose, draw or win, THE OWNERSHIP PROBLEM NEVER WENT AWAY.
I applaud the efforts of Lee, JJ, and Steve Gallen. And I look forward to the return of the real CAFC - both on, and off, the pitch.
Divisional status and who the manager is are of concern to many. But the greatest concern is the ownership of CAFC. Fund it and support it. Or oppose it. The choice was, and is, yours.
The combined land values of The Valley and Sparrows Lane was £11.7M.
The cost to build the buildings thereon and leave for 20 years so they are in the same condition as present is £42.7M.
So if someone wanted to purchase The Valley & Sparrows Lane as it is now for the purposes of professional football, the value is £54.4M according to the accounts as at 30/6/2017.
(Assuming Idle Hans was correct when I asked for assistance in understanding the accounts.
His reasoning is all in the link below).
I'm not offering an opinion myself I'm simply restating the values according to Idle Hans.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/81443/charltons-full-accounts-published/p5
Cheer Muttley.
This may be above my paid grade but as I decided on a repayment mortgage when most financial advisors were saying take out a endowment back in the wild days, I feel able to add my views that why wasn't Orient or other smaller London clubs sold for a lot more if being a London club and the value of the land comes into the equation ?
It depnds on the buyer's intentions of course. You could still have a buyer who is serious about the club and sees a new purpose built stadium as part of the future. On the other hand you could get Sebastian Sainsbury...
If there was a profitable scheme to redevelop The Valley for housing you can bet it would have been identified by now.
The club was owned by property speculators between 2010 and 2014, and the only one they identified involved the release of much more valuable land for housing on the peninsula. That was where the value was, not in Floyd Road.
Duchatelet has a scheme to build tower blocks all over the ground, but it was drawn up by his Dutch architect and doesn’t properly address the site issues. As far as I know it’s never even been shown to the council. It’s purpose is to justify his valuation of the club, which cannot be supported by the business or the actual value of the assets.