It's not clear to me how the review system would work if the ref decided against a penalty and let play continue.
Would you be able to appeal and stop the game while play continued and possibly prevent a break-away attack?
The danger is that refs would tend to give dodgy penalty decisions that they weren't really sure about and invite the defender to appeal. The defender would then look towards the coaching staff (frantically replaying the incident on their phones) for advice about whether to appeal.
It works in the NFL as the team employ someone to watch from a screen and their is a time limit on an appeal.
At the moment the officials keep stopping play during open play (Thus stopping a potential break away) but nobody in the ground knows what's going on.
As I said, this VAR really needs looking into to see if it can either be implemented better, or just scrapping it altogether.
I wouldn’t say I’m a fan, as a Scotland fan the last 15/20 mins of our match against Argentina in the Women’s Word Cup was an absolute farce which was caused by a combination of VAR and poor refereeing.
That being said, I don’t think there’s any turning back the clock and the question now will be how to use VAR effectively. You would hope that in the Premier League, when the technology is in the hands of more competent referees, that the experience would be better.
Fair enough but it can sometimes be three or four minutes before the ball actually goes out of play. This could be a very strange period in a game - and ensure that everyone in the ground (and watching on TV) could "review" the incident over and over before the ref had a chance!
Football is a lot like life. It comes at you fast, it's easy to make mistakes and you rarely get a chance to do it over again. If I might be a little philosophical for a moment, the beauty is in our imperfections. Do your best to get things right, but accept that nobody is infallible.
For me, VAR takes away a fundamental aspect of football. Fans arguing about decisions has always been part of the game. What's more fun? Shouting "The referees a wanker!" or "The referees a wanker, but it's all sorted out now so we've got nothing to be upset about after all and we'll just sit down now!"
Football is a lot like life. It comes at you fast, it's easy to make mistakes and you rarely get a chance to do it over again. If I might be a little philosophical for a moment, the beauty is in our imperfections. Do your best to get things right, but accept that nobody is infallible.
For me, VAR takes away a fundamental aspect of football. Fans arguing about decisions has always been part of the game. What's more fun? Shouting "The referees a wanker!" or "The referees a wanker, but it's all sorted out now so we've got nothing to be upset about after all and we'll just sit down now!"
Nobody likes anybody who is right all the time.
the joke is i don't believe they always get it right. i actually find myself arguing against alot of the VAR decisions. the officials seem to me to misinterpret the laws of the game.
Yes to referrals, and if you ask for a review and lose it, you lose the chance to use one of your subs. Or something. I thought it was good in that it would cut out things like Henry's handball for France v Ireland. Instead we are getting ridiculous slow mo replays that make everything look dodgy.
In favour of it basically. Where I think it's coming up short is in quality of information to players and fans and time taken on some decisions. These things can all be improved.
Two contentious decisions involving var have been the second pen for USA v Spain, and the Cameroon goal disallowed for offside which was apparently too close and the attacker might have been given the advantage.
The ref does seem to have final say, maybe when the var panel can't decide, like with the US pen (which I still think she got wrong after lengthy consideration).
What guides me quite strongly is a trip to Swansea in 1984 when we should have had a pen and went on to lose the game 0-1. Bloody long coach ride that day to feel cheated. And another time, when spurs went to old Trafford for the ball to cross the line but no goal given, again many years ago. Now that the technology is almost ready, some process improvements and other tweaks should see it gets better and prove its worth for the doubters.
Best thing to happen in football for years if it means the cheats, divers and poor officiating is dealt with.
Ive not seen a dive picked up on VAR yet .
To be fair, that's one of the things I like about women's football. It's generally a lot more honest. I haven't seen as many of the games as I'd like but I don't recall any blatant diving.
Won't be long before at a Sunday League match on Plumstead Common, someone brings their DIY stepladder and mobile phone to film games and undermine the autonomy of referees.
Won't be long before at a Sunday League match on Plumstead Common, someone brings their DIY stepladder and mobile phone to film games and undermine the autonomy of referees.
Happy for a referee’s “autonomy” to be undermined if it leads to better decision making.
Won't be long before at a Sunday League match on Plumstead Common, someone brings their DIY stepladder and mobile phone to film games and undermine the autonomy of referees.
Happy for a referee’s “autonomy” to be undermined if it leads to better decision making.
At Sunday League level? With this direction of travel nobody will become a referee in the future. As long as the referee isn't biased he or she should have full autonomy. Things might change of course if players never get anything wrong.
Won't be long before at a Sunday League match on Plumstead Common, someone brings their DIY stepladder and mobile phone to film games and undermine the autonomy of referees.
Happy for a referee’s “autonomy” to be undermined if it leads to better decision making.
I take the opposite view. The referee should be responsible for their decisions. When they get it wrong, own it and make a determined effort to improve. VAR lets referees off the hook. Get it wrong, never mind, TV ref in a TV control room 200 miles away will sort it out. It's a disincentive to better decision making by the ref on the spot. It's already messing with how lino's officiate, they have to let the play go instead of flagging offside straightaway in case it isn't and the TV can sort it out after.
in cricket umpires continually bottle decision and refer them to VAR, but it doesn't really matter as it is not a time conscious game. They seem to have got it right in rugby because it is quite quick but in football they need to sort it out to be quicker. Once in use I expect that refs will bottle their decisions and refer to VAR more and more which will need to legislated against.
Won't be long before at a Sunday League match on Plumstead Common, someone brings their DIY stepladder and mobile phone to film games and undermine the autonomy of referees.
Happy for a referee’s “autonomy” to be undermined if it leads to better decision making.
I take the opposite view. The referee should be responsible for their decisions. When they get it wrong, own it and make a determined effort to improve. VAR lets referees off the hook. Get it wrong, never mind, TV ref in a TV control room 200 miles away will sort it out. It's a disincentive to better decision making by the ref on the spot. It's already messing with how lino's officiate, they have to let the play go instead of flagging offside straightaway in case it isn't and the TV can sort it out after.
But the use of technology allows the wrong decision to be righted there and then. If the referee just try’s a bit harder to get it right in his next game then the team that has been wronged doesn’t benefit.
Won't be long before at a Sunday League match on Plumstead Common, someone brings their DIY stepladder and mobile phone to film games and undermine the autonomy of referees.
Happy for a referee’s “autonomy” to be undermined if it leads to better decision making.
At Sunday League level? With this direction of travel nobody will become a referee in the future. As long as the referee isn't biased he or she should have full autonomy. Things might change of course if players never get anything wrong.
Why not at Sunday League level? Currently the cost of technology makes that impractical but in 10/20 years time it could be different. Perhaps in the future we won’t need referees at all, as I said, this is happening, this is the future and you can resist if you like but you can’t stop it.
Won't be long before at a Sunday League match on Plumstead Common, someone brings their DIY stepladder and mobile phone to film games and undermine the autonomy of referees.
Happy for a referee’s “autonomy” to be undermined if it leads to better decision making.
I take the opposite view. The referee should be responsible for their decisions. When they get it wrong, own it and make a determined effort to improve. VAR lets referees off the hook. Get it wrong, never mind, TV ref in a TV control room 200 miles away will sort it out. It's a disincentive to better decision making by the ref on the spot. It's already messing with how lino's officiate, they have to let the play go instead of flagging offside straightaway in case it isn't and the TV can sort it out after.
But the use of technology allows the wrong decision to be righted there and then. If the referee just try’s a bit harder to get it right in his next game then the team that has been wronged doesn’t benefit.
I suppose that's where we differ in our outlook. You want the right decisions to be made, I'm OK with bad decisions being part of the game. Personally I think in football, like life, you should have to take the rough with the smooth.
Anything that stops mistakes (that may cost millions of pounds. Say, a disallowed goal in a play off final.) has to be a good thing.
But, it's the time, and fact that some of the decisions are so marginal is one of the problems. Also, as shown by the England v Cameroon game, at least some of the teams don't seem to understand VAR rules.
So, don't show VAR on the big screen. So, us punters are kept in the dark for a minute or so. But make the decision quickly, and bring in something similar to "Umpire's Call", like there is in cricket. Let's not get bogged down in minutiae.
But, as I said, anything that reduces the number of mistakes has to be a good thing.
And, make sure that everyone knows what's going on. Have fixed, swingeing penalties in place, so any kind of mass protest like the Cameroon players produced, has dire consequences!
Yes when it is used accordingly to the laws. There was a stat recently that came out that said something like 98% of refereeing decisions are correct so this should just be used as an aid to help with clear and obvious errors missed by the referees.
Yes when it is used accordingly to the laws. There was a stat recently that came out that said something like 98% of refereeing decisions are correct so this should just be used as an aid to help with clear and obvious errors missed by the referees.
Is there a definition on 'clear and obvious' though? It seems to me that any VAR decision that is not cleared up within 10 seconds or so cannot be clear and obvious.....
Referees have made mistakes since the beginning of time and it's been part of the game. As more money has come into the game and pundits have spent hours watching replays of offsides etc we now have to endure VAR and its tiresome consequences.
We will still have refs making mistakes, games lasting forever, pundits discussing VAR and calls for more technology.
Football is a sport and if we only think about money it will ultimately be pointless. We might as well remove the human element entirely if we're scared of mistakes, cheating etc.
We are at an impasse. Those that have a football soul, want to celebrate there and then, they don't want to wait five minutes for a man in an office in Acton to tell them that now is the time to cheer. They are prepared to take the rough with the smooth, enjoy moaning about injustices and taking the ones that do go their way with a shrug and a wink. As @Missed It put it so well, "the beauty is in our imperfections".
Those that have a football head, want automatons to get things "right" 100% of the time; 100% of the time in a game in which that is impossible, because it has laws and not rules. No matter who is making the final decision, it's subjective most of the time. Those that quote the money involved as being more important than the sport and the enjoyment of what is - in the end - just an entertainment, and those that think its acceptable that "us punters are kept in the dark for a minute or so.".
We have different opinions as to who the professional game is actually for, and I don't think we can reach agreement.
I really want a schism in football. The rich multinational clubs to have their European/World breakaway league, with all the technology money can buy to get every little tiny decision absolutely correct, saturation coverage of that league and that league alone, played around the world at the behest of the highest bidder - because "that's the future".
Then the rest of us can watch good old warts n all football that has been around in the present form - more or less - for 150 years. I am not saying that changes and tweaks should never happen, but things like VAR that change the very essence of the game can be made in another game related to football. Head people can watch that, us heart people can continue to sing "the referee's a wanker" to our little, flawed, hearts content...
Fan of it, don't think it's been helped by a law change happening at this World Cup and the confusion around it, added to a pretty poor level of refereeing in the women's game which is compounded by VAR having to get involved.
Comments
At the moment the officials keep stopping play during open play (Thus stopping a potential break away) but nobody in the ground knows what's going on.
As I said, this VAR really needs looking into to see if it can either be implemented better, or just scrapping it altogether.
That being said, I don’t think there’s any turning back the clock and the question now will be how to use VAR effectively. You would hope that in the Premier League, when the technology is in the hands of more competent referees, that the experience would be better.
For me, VAR takes away a fundamental aspect of football. Fans arguing about decisions has always been part of the game. What's more fun? Shouting "The referees a wanker!" or "The referees a wanker, but it's all sorted out now so we've got nothing to be upset about after all and we'll just sit down now!"
Nobody likes anybody who is right all the time.
Two contentious decisions involving var have been the second pen for USA v Spain, and the Cameroon goal disallowed for offside which was apparently too close and the attacker might have been given the advantage.
The ref does seem to have final say, maybe when the var panel can't decide, like with the US pen (which I still think she got wrong after lengthy consideration).
What guides me quite strongly is a trip to Swansea in 1984 when we should have had a pen and went on to lose the game 0-1. Bloody long coach ride that day to feel cheated. And another time, when spurs went to old Trafford for the ball to cross the line but no goal given, again many years ago. Now that the technology is almost ready, some process improvements and other tweaks should see it gets better and prove its worth for the doubters.
With this direction of travel nobody will become a referee in the future.
As long as the referee isn't biased he or she should have full autonomy.
Things might change of course if players never get anything wrong.
Refs need to then be punished for getting it wrong. Electric Chair if 3 mistakes in one game.
Seriously though...
Why is it as slow as it is? It should be reviewed and decided as quick as they do in Rugby.
If you can't make a decision quickly (within a total of say 90 seconds) then it is not clear or obvious so original decision must stand.
But, it's the time, and fact that some of the decisions are so marginal is one of the problems. Also, as shown by the England v Cameroon game, at least some of the teams don't seem to understand VAR rules.
So, don't show VAR on the big screen. So, us punters are kept in the dark for a minute or so. But make the decision quickly, and bring in something similar to "Umpire's Call", like there is in cricket. Let's not get bogged down in minutiae.
But, as I said, anything that reduces the number of mistakes has to be a good thing.
And, make sure that everyone knows what's going on. Have fixed, swingeing penalties in place, so any kind of mass protest like the Cameroon players produced, has dire consequences!
It seems to me that any VAR decision that is not cleared up within 10 seconds or so cannot be clear and obvious.....
Is it something that benefits the players on the pitch and the integrity of the sport itself? Yes, probably.
Is it something that benefits the watching audience? Probably not.
So it’s a hard one to call.
I would prefer there to be some sort of middle ground where it can only be used by the referee once in a game.
We will still have refs making mistakes, games lasting forever, pundits discussing VAR and calls for more technology.
Football is a sport and if we only think about money it will ultimately be pointless. We might as well remove the human element entirely if we're scared of mistakes, cheating etc.
Those that have a football head, want automatons to get things "right" 100% of the time; 100% of the time in a game in which that is impossible, because it has laws and not rules. No matter who is making the final decision, it's subjective most of the time. Those that quote the money involved as being more important than the sport and the enjoyment of what is - in the end - just an entertainment, and those that think its acceptable that "us punters are kept in the dark for a minute or so.".
We have different opinions as to who the professional game is actually for, and I don't think we can reach agreement.
I really want a schism in football. The rich multinational clubs to have their European/World breakaway league, with all the technology money can buy to get every little tiny decision absolutely correct, saturation coverage of that league and that league alone, played around the world at the behest of the highest bidder - because "that's the future".
Then the rest of us can watch good old warts n all football that has been around in the present form - more or less - for 150 years. I am not saying that changes and tweaks should never happen, but things like VAR that change the very essence of the game can be made in another game related to football. Head people can watch that, us heart people can continue to sing "the referee's a wanker" to our little, flawed, hearts content...