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Fans Forum - 25th September 2019
Comments
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Good to know.Henry Irving said:
"Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretence of civility. It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate".AFKABartram said:Fumbluff said:
I can confirm CARD is officially part of CARD, not sure why you don’t get that really @chizzChizz said:Can someone fill in a gap in my understanding? Is CAST a "part of" CARD? Or are there merely CAST members who support CARD and its goals?
If CARD is "officially" a part of CARD, then I would agree with @AFKABartram that it's difficult to see how the club should be expected to welcome official meetings with CAST. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't still take place.Because he is a sealion :-)
out of interest, what does sealioning mean? Never heard that one before
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Was PV ever chief executive when the FF was in existence? If so it wasn’t the one with properly constituted groups, which I set up in 2010 when Kav was chief executive. We also set some rules. The previous incarnation was a collection of volunteers IIRC.Henry Irving said:
Neither just one group nor a free for all.Airman Brown said:
What’s the alternative? No hierarchy? Any made-up group to be given equivalent status?Henry Irving said:Airman Brown said:Just to add, anyone who thinks CARD in general isn’t on amicable terms with club staff at all levels hasn’t been paying attention. Indeed, I’d suggest CARD has a closer and better relationship with staff than Lieven De Turck, Roland Duchatelet or Richard Murray, for a start.
As for why CAST should have a privileged relationship with the club, quite simply because it is a properly constituted legal entity with formal recognition at a national level and a significant membership and which any Charlton fan can join. Unlike, for example, “Swedish Addicks”, which is nothing against fans who are actual Swedes.
Valid point but it would be a "privileged relationship" none the less.
Inevitably some groups will or should have more clout than others, because they have more credibility by virtue of their size and structure. The club has no idea who some of the people at the forum currently represent, neither does it care, because it is a box-ticking exercise for them.
As when Peter Varney was CEO properly constituted and active groups.
Agree it is, in part, box ticketing but it provides an opportunity to catch them in their lies IE on the importance of the director loans you quoted the FF minutes.
There are also some mundane issues which are important to some fans as well as @GlassHalfFull listed.
As I said the membership badly needs reviewing. I agree with examples you give as to why.0 -
You're right.
FF was started under PDV as it replaced the elected director but yes it was under Kav we had properly constituted groups.
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I'll second that.Redrobo said:May I suggest that those who have a real issue with this put their names forward to become Charlton Life rep, we have an election, and that the winning rep reports back to its members ASAP after any meeting. Simples.
Back in the day, when the FF was reconstituted during Kav's tenure as CEO, I suggested that CL might have a representative as it was/is the largest & best online forum allied to our club.
However, the rules & regs had only recently been laid down, with regular meetings of members & an AGM amongst other stipulations being the criteria for a group's representation.
It would appear that said rules have been relaxed during recent seasons so I see no reason why THIS group should not put forward the name of a Lifer to represent their views etc.
2 further points worth noting, are that before KM had made her presence felt at meetings, the minutes were taken by one of the representatives ( most recently, the guy representing the VIPs) , written up & distributed within 24 hours at the latest. Once she had her feet under the table, KM demanded that said minutes must be agreed by her before publishing....
Secondly, an unwritten "rule" was that what went on behind the closed doors of the meeting should NOT be made public until they had been overseen by KM except to members of the relevant groups that were represented....This was unlikely anyway when the turnover was around 24 hours anyway & would have meant that reps would write up/cascade information to their members straight after the meetings- highly unlikely IMO.
However, there was an occasion around 3 years ago when everyone was waiting with bated breath for news of a meeting & becoming very agitated when nothing was forthcoming after several days, so I took the decision to "leak" a couple of pertinent issues on here ( what did I have to lose ?) and was roundly castigated by a certain member of East Kent Addicks .....I had already decided that, as the meetings had become a complete farce by then, I would stand down as NWKA rep - I had better things to do than to see a certain person's smirking face across the table.
At least all concerned are now spared that horror.14 -
I vote for Fanny. Unfortunate line but you know what I mean.6
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Fanny would be choice as well.
Always talks a lot of sense.0 -
"Despicable human being" is that John Commerford.Fanny Fanackapan said:
I'll second that.Redrobo said:May I suggest that those who have a real issue with this put their names forward to become Charlton Life rep, we have an election, and that the winning rep reports back to its members ASAP after any meeting. Simples.
Back in the day, when the FF was reconstituted during Kav's tenure as CEO, I suggested that CL might have a representative as it was/is the largest & best online forum allied to our club.
However, the rules & regs had only recently been laid down, with regular meetings of members & an AGM amongst other stipulations being the criteria for a group's representation.
It would appear that said rules have been relaxed during recent seasons so I see no reason why THIS group should not put forward the name of a Lifer to represent their views etc.
2 further points worth noting, are that before KM had made her presence felt at meetings, the minutes were taken by one of the representatives ( most recently, the guy representing the VIPs) , written up & distributed within 24 hours at the latest. Once she had her feet under the table, KM demanded that said minutes must be agreed by her before publishing....
Secondly, an unwritten "rule" was that what went on behind the closed doors of the meeting should NOT be made public until they had been overseen by KM except to members of the relevant groups that were represented....This was unlikely anyway when the turnover was around 24 hours anyway & would have meant that reps would write up/cascade information to their members straight after the meetings- highly unlikely IMO.
However, there was an occasion around 3 years ago when everyone was waiting with bated breath for news of a meeting & becoming very agitated when nothing was forthcoming after several days, so I took the decision to "leak" a couple of pertinent issues on here ( what did I have to lose ?) and was roundly castigated by a certain member of East Kent Addicks .....I had already decided that, as the meetings had become a complete farce by then, I would stand down as NWKA rep - I had better things to do than to see a certain person's smirking face across the table.
At least all concerned are now spared that horror.0 -
I couldn't possibly say.....Henry Irving said:
"Despicable human being" is that John Commerford.Fanny Fanackapan said:
I'll second that.Redrobo said:May I suggest that those who have a real issue with this put their names forward to become Charlton Life rep, we have an election, and that the winning rep reports back to its members ASAP after any meeting. Simples.
Back in the day, when the FF was reconstituted during Kav's tenure as CEO, I suggested that CL might have a representative as it was/is the largest & best online forum allied to our club.
However, the rules & regs had only recently been laid down, with regular meetings of members & an AGM amongst other stipulations being the criteria for a group's representation.
It would appear that said rules have been relaxed during recent seasons so I see no reason why THIS group should not put forward the name of a Lifer to represent their views etc.
2 further points worth noting, are that before KM had made her presence felt at meetings, the minutes were taken by one of the representatives ( most recently, the guy representing the VIPs) , written up & distributed within 24 hours at the latest. Once she had her feet under the table, KM demanded that said minutes must be agreed by her before publishing....
Secondly, an unwritten "rule" was that what went on behind the closed doors of the meeting should NOT be made public until they had been overseen by KM except to members of the relevant groups that were represented....This was unlikely anyway when the turnover was around 24 hours anyway & would have meant that reps would write up/cascade information to their members straight after the meetings- highly unlikely IMO.
However, there was an occasion around 3 years ago when everyone was waiting with bated breath for news of a meeting & becoming very agitated when nothing was forthcoming after several days, so I took the decision to "leak" a couple of pertinent issues on here ( what did I have to lose ?) and was roundly castigated by a certain member of East Kent Addicks .....I had already decided that, as the meetings had become a complete farce by then, I would stand down as NWKA rep - I had better things to do than to see a certain person's smirking face across the table.
At least all concerned are now spared that horror.
:-)0 -
Redrobo said:Fanny would be choice as well.
Always talks a lot of sense.
Thanks, guys, but I've done my bit & now that we live a good 75 minutes' drive away, Mr F would have to bring me, hang around for a couple of hours and then drive me home. Not ideal.Redrobo said:Fanny would be choice as well.
Always talks a lot of sense.
Plenty of excellent candidates on here - perhaps we should draw up a shortlist ?0 -
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Sorry I’ll try not to be unintentionally cryptic in future. What I meant to say was there was no takeover news of note or worth mentioning.
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Very understandable Fanny.Fanny Fanackapan said:Redrobo said:Fanny would be choice as well.
Always talks a lot of sense.
Thanks, guys, but I've done my bit & now that we live a good 75 minutes' drive away, Mr F would have to bring me, hang around for a couple of hours and then drive me home. Not ideal.Redrobo said:Fanny would be choice as well.
Always talks a lot of sense.
Plenty of excellent candidates on here - perhaps we should draw up a shortlist ?
I hope a few are interested.1 -
I post Forum stuff on here including starting threads (as do others like Ben) and when there is actual urgent takeover news I make every effort to get it out quickly.
There is a grey area but my approach has been to pick up some of the missing info if it’s relevant after the statement.
Operational stuff I think it’s more appropriate that people can wait for the minutes which I’ve pushed repeatedly to be done more quickly, but there are limits to what I can do.
Anyway if the consensus is that isn’t enough or the right thing to do I won’t post forum stuff on here.2 -
I’d like to put my name forward for consideration. So that’s Dick, Fanny at Charlton ... I’ll get me coatMuttleyCAFC said:I vote for Fanny. Unfortunate line but you know what I mean.2 -
Please don’t take my post as in anyway critical of you. Indeed I made my suggestion in part as a challenge to those who criticise and yet do not give up their time as you and others do, but may have something to bring to the fans forum. I think the phrase is put up or 🤐; and partly because I think this forum should be represented formally.razil said:I post Forum stuff on here including starting threads (as do others like Ben) and when there is actual urgent takeover news I make every effort to get it out quickly.
There is a grey area but my approach has been to pick up some of the missing info if it’s relevant after the statement.
Operational stuff I think it’s more appropriate that people can wait for the minutes which I’ve pushed repeatedly to be done more quickly, but there are limits to what I can do.
Anyway if the consensus is that isn’t enough or the right thing to do I won’t post forum stuff on here.
Your comments are always welcome and appreciated by me, and no doubt others, so thank you.
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That narrows it down a bit.Fanny Fanackapan said:Redrobo said:Fanny would be choice as well.
Always talks a lot of sense.
Thanks, guys, but I've done my bit & now that we live a good 75 minutes' drive away, Mr F would have to bring me, hang around for a couple of hours and then drive me home. Not ideal.Redrobo said:Fanny would be choice as well.
Always talks a lot of sense.
Plenty of excellent candidates on here - perhaps we should draw up a shortlist ?
Either @AFKABartram or @ElfsborgAddick
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Like most people @AFKABartram looks up to me.Addickted said:
That narrows it down a bit.Fanny Fanackapan said:Redrobo said:Fanny would be choice as well.
Always talks a lot of sense.
Thanks, guys, but I've done my bit & now that we live a good 75 minutes' drive away, Mr F would have to bring me, hang around for a couple of hours and then drive me home. Not ideal.Redrobo said:Fanny would be choice as well.
Always talks a lot of sense.
Plenty of excellent candidates on here - perhaps we should draw up a shortlist ?
Either @AFKABartram or @ElfsborgAddick0 -
Just a short comment from someone (the only one) who has been a member of the Fans Forum since it was set up in its present form by Rick some 10 years ago. Most of what is discussed is routine operational stuff which is really very unexciting as can be seen when it eventually appears in the minutes. Travel problems, the catering arrangements and yes, even potholes, are the sort of topics that take up most of the evening. Fanny's melodramatic recollections about life under Katrine are far from the present reality.
Tom has chaired the meetings perfectly well for some time but their is an ongoing debate as to whether the chairman should be a supporter rather than a member of the club. The meeting this week took three hours and was taped. Tom will write up the minutes which will be approved by a couple of the supporters present before they are made public. This is not a five minute job and Tom apologised in advance if his task takes longer than usual, there being three matches over the next week. Nothing will be censored and nothing was the slightest bit controversial
It is only the desire for news of the takeover that really interests everyone and frankly there was very little to report. The group which contains Australians are still around but nothing is happening. I suggested to Lieven that they were not a serious proposition and he replied that he had thought them close to completing the deal in the days after Wembley, but it has all gone quiet again and he has no idea whether they are still serious. There have been four recent enquiries from potential new buyers, but they are all at a very early stage, so my view is that nothing is likely to happen for some time yet.
Sorry there is not much there for conspiracy theorists, but the majority of the proceedings are routine and extremely unexciting. A couple of random supporters were invited to attend but neither one showed up. If you would like to attend the next meeting, contact Tom24 -
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(Thumbs up emoticon)killerjerrylee said:Just a short comment from someone (the only one) who has been a member of the Fans Forum since it was set up in its present form by Rick some 10 years ago. Most of what is discussed is routine operational stuff which is really very unexciting as can be seen when it eventually appears in the minutes. Travel problems, the catering arrangements and yes, even potholes, are the sort of topics that take up most of the evening. Fanny's melodramatic recollections about life under Katrine are far from the present reality.
Tom has chaired the meetings perfectly well for some time but their is an ongoing debate as to whether the chairman should be a supporter rather than a member of the club. The meeting this week took three hours and was taped. Tom will write up the minutes which will be approved by a couple of the supporters present before they are made public. This is not a five minute job and Tom apologised in advance if his task takes longer than usual, there being three matches over the next week. Nothing will be censored and nothing was the slightest bit controversial
It is only the desire for news of the takeover that really interests everyone and frankly there was very little to report. The group which contains Australians are still around but nothing is happening. I suggested to Lieven that they were not a serious proposition and he replied that he had thought them close to completing the deal in the days after Wembley, but it has all gone quiet again and he has no idea whether they are still serious. There have been four recent enquiries from potential new buyers, but they are all at a very early stage, so my view is that nothing is likely to happen for some time yet.
Sorry there is not much there for conspiracy theorists, but the majority of the proceedings are routine and extremely unexciting. A couple of random supporters were invited to attend but neither one showed up. If you would like to attend the next meeting, contact Tom0 -
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If I may add:
The meeting unanimously recommended to Lieven de Turck that the most important thing to do at the moment was to get the management team signed up on longer contracts. It was stressed that any sensible new owner would want to retain their services so it would not be a barrier to sale and that the club would be protected somewhat by compensation if they were tempted away.
L de T said he would pass that on to the owner.
What good that might do is anyone's guess, but at least it was clearly stated.
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Thanks for that Ian, much appreciated. What I don’t understand is that if it was taped, even only audibly, why not just put that out on the Club’s website? It would save Tom a hell of a lot of trouble.killerjerrylee said:Just a short comment from someone (the only one) who has been a member of the Fans Forum since it was set up in its present form by Rick some 10 years ago. Most of what is discussed is routine operational stuff which is really very unexciting as can be seen when it eventually appears in the minutes. Travel problems, the catering arrangements and yes, even potholes, are the sort of topics that take up most of the evening. Fanny's melodramatic recollections about life under Katrine are far from the present reality.
Tom has chaired the meetings perfectly well for some time but their is an ongoing debate as to whether the chairman should be a supporter rather than a member of the club. The meeting this week took three hours and was taped. Tom will write up the minutes which will be approved by a couple of the supporters present before they are made public. This is not a five minute job and Tom apologised in advance if his task takes longer than usual, there being three matches over the next week. Nothing will be censored and nothing was the slightest bit controversial
It is only the desire for news of the takeover that really interests everyone and frankly there was very little to report. The group which contains Australians are still around but nothing is happening. I suggested to Lieven that they were not a serious proposition and he replied that he had thought them close to completing the deal in the days after Wembley, but it has all gone quiet again and he has no idea whether they are still serious. There have been four recent enquiries from potential new buyers, but they are all at a very early stage, so my view is that nothing is likely to happen for some time yet.
Sorry there is not much there for conspiracy theorists, but the majority of the proceedings are routine and extremely unexciting. A couple of random supporters were invited to attend but neither one showed up. If you would like to attend the next meeting, contact Tom2 -
The fact that it even needs passing on proves what a bunch of keyunts are involved in the running of our clubPico said:If I may add:
The meeting unanimously recommended to Lieven de Turck that the most important thing to do at the moment was to get the management team signed up on longer contracts. It was stressed that any sensible new owner would want to retain their services so it would not be a barrier to sale and that the club would be protected somewhat by compensation if they were tempted away.
L de T said he would pass that on to the owner.
What good that might do is anyone's guess, but at least it was clearly stated.
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Wow. Just read this thread from the start.
To me it just highlights a lot of what is wrong with our fan base. Lots of self important twats posturing and point scoring about not very much. It's like watching a dick swinging contest in the land of the midget cocks. Its pathetic, really it is.15 -
Thank you @killerjerrylee. All I think most fans would like is a 2 liner after the meeting stathng the bare facts of what was on the agenda & discussed (potholes, catering etc) and that detailed account would follow within the next 48/72 hours. Not hard to ask surely & would take less than 5 mins. Not asking for a blow-by-blow account that evening......just that the meeting took place, the bare issues discussed & time scale of when the minutes would be produced.killerjerrylee said:Just a short comment from someone (the only one) who has been a member of the Fans Forum since it was set up in its present form by Rick some 10 years ago. Most of what is discussed is routine operational stuff which is really very unexciting as can be seen when it eventually appears in the minutes. Travel problems, the catering arrangements and yes, even potholes, are the sort of topics that take up most of the evening. Fanny's melodramatic recollections about life under Katrine are far from the present reality.
Tom has chaired the meetings perfectly well for some time but their is an ongoing debate as to whether the chairman should be a supporter rather than a member of the club. The meeting this week took three hours and was taped. Tom will write up the minutes which will be approved by a couple of the supporters present before they are made public. This is not a five minute job and Tom apologised in advance if his task takes longer than usual, there being three matches over the next week. Nothing will be censored and nothing was the slightest bit controversial
It is only the desire for news of the takeover that really interests everyone and frankly there was very little to report. The group which contains Australians are still around but nothing is happening. I suggested to Lieven that they were not a serious proposition and he replied that he had thought them close to completing the deal in the days after Wembley, but it has all gone quiet again and he has no idea whether they are still serious. There have been four recent enquiries from potential new buyers, but they are all at a very early stage, so my view is that nothing is likely to happen for some time yet.
Sorry there is not much there for conspiracy theorists, but the majority of the proceedings are routine and extremely unexciting. A couple of random supporters were invited to attend but neither one showed up. If you would like to attend the next meeting, contact Tom6 -
Sealioning - every days a school day.
Fanny getting grief from another supporter back in the day? Don’t ever introduce him to me, he won’t forget it. I loves her and won’t apologise for it.
Fans forum? Still a waste of everyone’s time whilst Douchbag runs the show.1 -
I do not think it is a waste of time or obviously I would not have bothered with it for so long. I agree that we have no apparent influence with our owner and therefore can not claim any big successes. We have however aired many more routine grievances and by dialogue with the senior staff have made changes to things that do affect us all. It is the misconception that the Fans Forum can make a big difference that is the root of the problem. Yes, of course we ask the difficult questions and give them the benefit of our opinions, but nobody should expect us to speed up the sale of the club or negotiate new contracts for Lee and the players, because that is not going to happen.
Personally, I see the benefit of the Fans Forum every time that I visit the Valley. It was my idea to put up the pictures around the outside of the ground (I had seen the the same thing at Bournemouth). I raised the idea at Fans Forum meetings on multiple occasions and eventually it was done and in my opinion looks great. Now we must get back to the potholes.15 -
Aw, thanks, sweetheart. I'd love to see a confrontation with HWMBO of E Kent !KBslittlesis said:Sealioning - every days a school day.
Fanny getting grief from another supporter back in the day? Don’t ever introduce him to me, he won’t forget it. I loves her and won’t apologise for it.
Fans forum? Still a waste of everyone’s time whilst Douchbag runs the show.
As for the comment regarding my "melodramatic " recollections, I'd like to highlight the way that KM dealt with female members of the FF at that time ( think there were 2 of us ?) as opposed to the males members .....ie with some disdain & mistrust IMO. Surely she didn't feel threatened !!
And to remind a dear friend & colleague about the " leg crossing" episode.....and it wasn't for my benefit. I'll say no more.
Finally, those who know me well will confirm that Fanny is more mellow than melodramatic ( lol !)5
