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How Many Minutes Of Football Do You Reckon You Saw Today?

edited November 2019 in General Charlton
Yes I know we played very little football - a total lack of creativity against a team that came to spoil.

In the match thread I expressed my frustration that the Ref only awarded 7 minutes added time at the end of the 2nd half. Whilst there were 8 min 6 secs eventually added, from studying the recording, it should have actually been 10 min 5 secs. That research, however, offered insight into another aspect - how much time the ball is actually in play.

Of 53 mins 6 secs 2nd half duration, the ball was in play for 22 mins 45 secs. It was not in play for 30 mins 21 secs. There were a staggering 69 interruptions during the course of the half.

In this day and age and with technology so readily available, surely there has to be a way to guarantee a certain number of "in play" minutes - even if it is only a minimum of say 30 mins per half. 

The fact we probably wouldn't have scored if we played 'til midnight is neither here nor there!
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Comments

  • Do the minutes depend if were winning or losing?
  • Id still like to see the game stopped each time the ball isnt active with that shown on the big screen - think it would be an eye opener to see how much Football is played every week
  • Refs need to book time wasting very early.  When we were beating Bristol City away the ref booked Phillips and another of ours super early for wasting a few seconds and it stopped it.  

    A rule change which bought in sin bins for time wasting might help.  All teams do it so I dont blame Preston albeit it was frustrating.  
  • Yes I know we played very little football - a total lack of creativity against a team that came to spoil.

    In the match thread I expressed my frustration that the Ref only awarded 7 minutes added time at the end of the 2nd half. Whilst there were 8 min 6 secs eventually added, from studying the recording, it should have actually been 10 min 5 secs. That research, however, offered insight into another aspect - how much time the ball is actually in play.

    Of 53 mins 6 secs 2nd half duration, the ball was in play for 22 mins 45 secs. It was not in play for 30 mins 21 secs. There were a staggering 69 interruptions during the course of the half.

    In this day and age and with technology so readily available, surely there has to be a way to guarantee a certain number of "in play" minutes - even if it is only a minimum of say 30 mins per half. 

    The fact we probably wouldn't have scored if we played 'til midnight is neither here nor there!
    Those numbers for the second half is absolutely ridiculous. I think that shows just how much they came to frustrate and spoil.

    Yes, we were very poor today, but what chance did we have of building any kind of momentum, attacking play, or pressure, when the ball was hardly in play?

    It’s things like this that they also have to protect the integrity of the game. Why are people paying out so much, travelling for hours, just to have the game ruined like it was today? You can excuse poor performances and not being at it sometimes, it’s rare for a Bowyer side, but when it’s such little football anyway, it makes it ridiculous.
  • For those that think I've made up the above figures here is the 2nd half as it happened:

    In Play 45.00 to 45.08
    Stoppage (Throw) 45.08 to 45.25
    In Play 45.25 to 45.41
    Stoppage (Free kick for offside) 45.41 to 46.02
    In Play 46.02 to 46.12
    Stoppage (Throw) 46.12 to 46.24
    In Play 46.24 to 47.09
    Stoppage (Free kick for foul) 47.09 to 47.38
    In Play 47.38 to 47.51
    Stoppage (Throw) 47.51 to 48.14
    In Play 48.14 to 48.36
    Stoppage (Free kick for foul) 48.36 to 48.41
    In Play 48.41 to 49.31
    Stoppage (Throw) 49.31 to 49.48
    In Play 49.48 to 50.03
    Stoppage (Free kick for foul) 50.03 to 50.38
    In Play 50.38 to 50.51
    Stoppage (Throw) 50.51 to 51.01
    In Play 51.01 to 51.49
    Stoppage (Throw) 51.49 to 52.15
    In Play 52.15 to 52.27
    Stoppage (Throw) 52.27 to 52.39
    In Play 52.39 to 53.34
    Stoppage (Free kick for handball) 53.34 to 54.11
    In Play 54.11 to 54.24
    Stoppage (Corner) 54.24 to 54.50
    In Play 54.50 to 54.56
    Stoppage (Corner) 54.56 to 55.20
    In Play 55.20 to 55.37
    Stoppage (Throw) 55.37 to 55.52
    In Play 55.52 to 56.38
    Stoppage (Penalty) 56.38 to 57.38
    In Play 57.38 to 57.39
    Stoppage (Goal celebration) 57.39 to 58.34
    In Play 58.34 to 58.54
    Stoppage (Throw) 58.54 to 59.10
    In Play 59.10 to 59.16
    Stoppage (Throw) 59.16 to 59.30
    In Play 59.30 to 59.41
    Stoppage (Throw) 59.41 to 60.00
    In Play 60.00 to 60.03
    Stoppage (Throw) 60.03 to 60.30
    In Play 60.30 to 60.49
    Stoppage (Throw) 60.49 to 61.06
    In Play 61.06 to 61.14
    Stoppage (Throw) 61.14 to 61.25
    In Play 61.25 to 61.43
    Stoppage (Throw & injury) 61.43 to 62.25
    In Play 62.25 to 62.31
    Stoppage (Throw) 62.31 to 62.36
    In Play 62.36 to 62.49
    Stoppage (Corner) 62.49 to 63.12
    In Play 63.12 to 63.19
    Stoppage (Throw) 63.19 to 63.22
    In Play 63.22 to 63.26
    Stoppage (Throw) 63.26 to 63.33
    In Play 63.33 to 64.22
    Stoppage (Free kick & injury) 64.22 to 65.32
    In Play 65.32 to 65.41
    Stoppage (Throw) 65.41 to 65.56
    In Play 65.56 to 66.00
    Stoppage (Corner) 66.00 to 66.24
    In Play 66.24 to 66.27
    Stoppage (Goal kick) 66.27 to 66.49
    In Play 66.49 to 68.04
    Stoppage (Offside) 68.04 to 68.14
    In Play 68.14 to 68.28
    Stoppage (Throw & injury) 68.28 to 70.20
    In Play 70.20 to 71.08
    Stoppage (Free kick & injury) 71.08 to 72.03
    In Play 72.03 to 73.03
    Stoppage (Free kick , booking & sub) 73.03 to 73.47
    In Play 73.47 to 74.07
    Stoppage (Injury) 74.07 to 76.57
    In Play 76.57 to 77.13
    Stoppage (Throw) 77.13 to 77.27
    In Play 77.27 to 77.32
    Stoppage (Throw) 77.32 to 77.37
    In Play 77.37 to 77.41
    Stoppage (Throw) 77.41 to 77.53
    In Play 77.53 to 78.14
    Stoppage (Throw) 78.14 to 78.25
    In Play 78.25 to 78.34
    Stoppage (Throw) 78.34 to 78.43
    In Play 78.43 to 78.52
    Stoppage (Throw) 78.52 to 79.05
    In Play 79.05 to 79.44
    Stoppage (Free kick, yellow card & injury) 79.44 to 80.27

  • Id still like to see the game stopped each time the ball isnt active with that shown on the big screen - think it would be an eye opener to see how much Football is played every week
    There are sports you can watch that do exactly that. Not many of them are anywhere near as good to watch as football. 
  • Rugby has the answer. Stop the clock for any major stoppages (not for throw ons or corners, but for injuries, subs & any "un-natural" break in play) then you might get close to 45 mins of play.

    It will also help with the flow of the game. I've always felt that it's weird that a 'block' of time is added onto the end of a match when those missing minutes happened at varying different times & varying different stages of play. Eg. You might have just scored & the momentum is with you. A player is injured (like their player today) and the game is stopped for 3 minutes. Once restarted the game has 'died' a bit & your momentum is lost. However, when that 3 minutes is added at the end of the game(along with other stoppage time) you might be hanging on & the opposition has, say, 5 mins of 'injury time' in which to press for a winner. 
  • Blinding bit of research @Addick Addict great stuff.
  • The three minutes injury time in the first half seemed a a bit short too.  There were lengthy treatments on Lockyer and Naby's victim.  I thought their player took three minutes just to walk off!  Mind you he was probably entitled to feel a little peeved.  
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  • I knew someone who used to do this regularly. He said the figures he came up with were never anywhere near those put up by the 4th official at the end of the half.
  • I think the average amount of in play time for a match is normally around 57-58 minutes, so why not play 30 minutes each way with the clock stopping when the ball is out of play?  It would stop time wasting immediately.

    The problem with this is outside professional football where the ref wouldnt have the same time control...
  • I seem to remember the Americans doing this during the 1994 World Cup. They played of course to normal rules but ran a separate clock which stopped each time there was a stoppage in play. I think mist games were approx. 60 minutes - ie- ball was in play for 60 minutes. 
  • It’s a measure of how good a team now at the top of the league think Charlton are even with so many key players out that they saw their only option of getting a result, which they only got in the end due to a penalty, was by trying to frustrate us at every opportunity and to reduce the amongst of playing time by so much.
  • Good work @Addick Addict, that must have been very painful research to not only watch that match again but watch it in an even more stop-start fashion than live! Are you trying to give @lancashire lad a run for his money on the match stats front?  ;)

    Unfortunately this has been happening for years and years.

    From the BBC in August 2017:

    Premier League: Is time-wasting leaving fans short-changed?

    A 90-minute match but only 47 minutes and 40 seconds of actual football.

    At Turf Moor on Saturday, Burnley and West Brom played out a game in which the ball was in play for only 160 seconds more than it was out.

    Though these are early days, no Premier League match so far this season has seen less action.

    Two months ago, football's lawmakers revealed they were considering scrapping 45-minute halves, instead introducing two periods of 30 minutes, during which the clock would be stopped every time the ball went out.

    The proposal, the International Football Association Board said, was one of a number of options to deter football's "negativities".

    So would the rule have benefited supporters at Premier League matches so far this season? In a word, yes.

    Of 19 top-flight games across the opening two weekends of the campaign, the ball has been in play for more than an hour in only two of them.

    And no game has featured more than 61 minutes of play.


    Most of the articles I've found seem to be from 2017 or earlier but there's this, from SportBible in Oct-18:

    Time-wasting has been part of the game for as long as we can remember, but it reached a new low a few weeks back during the dire game between Cardiff City and Burnley.

    The two sides played out a less than enjoyable game live on Sky Sports at 4pm, with fewer than 450,000 viewers tuning in to see Burnley win 2-1.

    Remarkably, the ball was in play for just 42 minutes 2 seconds, which is the shortest amount of time since Stoke and Aston Villa conjured up only 40 minutes and 50 seconds of actual action on the pitch back in their December 2013 clash.

    Of the 90 minutes plus injury time at the Cardiff City team, 48 minutes was lost - with a good chunk of the delays and stoppages coming from Cardiff skipper Sean Morrison taking 20 throw ins and wasting a total of eight minutes.


    and this from the CIES Football Observatory (Dec-18), which is a study of the average effective time of games in 37 European competitions:

    The Swedish Allsvenskan is the league with the most fluid matches (60.4% of effective time), just ahead the UEFA Champions League (60.2%). The Portuguese Primeira Liga finds itself in the opposite position (50.9%).

    The highest effective playing time among the five major European leagues was recorded for the German Bundesliga (58.5%), while the lowest was measured for the Spanish Liga (55.8%). As for the Champions League, Europa League games are more fluid than the average observed at the level of the 37 competitions surveyed: 57.1% of effective time compared to 55.3%.

    The highest percentage of minutes in which the ball was in play for clubs in national competitions was recorded for matches of the Swedish side GIF Sundsvall (63.7%). This is 18% more than for games of the Portuguese team Feirense. Club Brugge tops the Champions League table (66.2%), while Borussia Mönchengladbach (62.5%), Liverpool (62.2%), Milan AC (61.2%), Barcelona (60.3%) and Paris St-Germain (60.1%) present the greatest figures for the big-5 leagues.

    Included in this study are a few second-tier competitions, including the Championship. Feirense is mentioned above as the side with the worst "effective time" but it's interesting to note who is second-last on this list ...
  • JaShea99 said:
    I knew someone who used to do this regularly. He said the figures he came up with were never anywhere near those put up by the 4th official at the end of the half.
    The refs just think of a number so why should it be accurate?
  • In the second half there was the ludicrous time when one of their players went down just as we were about to make a quick throw, he had got up to run on to the pitch but then seeing he was out of position just collapsed.

    Not sure if it was the ref or us that stopped though, but sure enough they were all back in position by the time we took it.
  • In the second half there was the ludicrous time when one of their players went down just as we were about to make a quick throw, he had got up to run on to the pitch but then seeing he was out of position just collapsed.

    Not sure if it was the ref or us that stopped though, but sure enough they were all back in position by the time we took it.
    Was it in front of the East Stand midway in our half?

    Regardless if it was the same call it was a ludicrous decision from the referee, the Preston player wasnt even on the pitch so we had every right to get on with the throw in - Instead he kept us waiting until they were able to continue

    I guess had the ref allowed play to continue then player in question would have rolled on the pitch laying there motionless
  • edited November 2019
    AA - great stuff.
    You clearly have too much time on your hands (forgive the pun).

    I think Rugby and Football both have a problem with 'dead-time' , Rugby has tried to deal with this a little, but still has a big problem with the amount of time used in game-management and surrounding scrums (the 20 minute scrum at France v Wales a couple of years ago a prime example).
    As you say, Preston came to spoil, some people are saying they could well end up with promotion as they are 'efficient' - but give me football over that turgid stuff any day.
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  • In the second half there was the ludicrous time when one of their players went down just as we were about to make a quick throw, he had got up to run on to the pitch but then seeing he was out of position just collapsed.

    Not sure if it was the ref or us that stopped though, but sure enough they were all back in position by the time we took it.
    Was it in front of the East Stand midway in our half?

    Regardless if it was the same call it was a ludicrous decision from the referee, the Preston player wasnt even on the pitch so we had every right to get on with the throw in - Instead he kept us waiting until they were able to continue

    I guess had the ref allowed play to continue then player in question would have rolled on the pitch laying there motionless
    Sounds like it - we had a throw around the half-way line and there was plenty of open space down our right-hand-side then their (out-of-position) player lost the use of his legs and crumpled in a heap 30 yards behind play.
  • Time wasting is so incredibly annoying, partly because of how blatant and cynical it is and also because it's such an easy fix. I don't understand the reticence about taking timekeeping away from the referee. What's the drawback?
  • There seems to be something about referees and basic arithmetic that don't go together. They add time for injuries and stoppages according to what they think is "about right" rather than simply adding the actual time!

    So four stoppages of a minute never add up to four minutes extra time in referee land!

    I don't think the clock should be stopped for "normal" incidents such as throw ins,  goal kicks corners etc. These typically take about 20 - 30 seconds. Although the ball is not in play, the game is not actually "stopped" and the throw or kick can be taken at any time. Even in American Football the clock does not stop just because the ball is not in play!

    But I do think the clock should stop whenever the referee actually "stops" the game for VAR, injury, substitution, to line up a wall or book a player or to allow for goal celebrations. (basically whenever a player would probably be booked if he tried to restart the game before hearing the whistle).

    I would also allow referees to indicate they want the clock stopped if they think a player is time-wasting - usually after about 30 seconds - or if the ball is not thrown back by the crowd - or anything else that holds the game up. This is at the discretion of the ref to decide.

    My guess is that this would typically extend the actual time for each half to an hour so it might be better to start with 40 rather that 46 (sic)  minute halves.




  • There’s a period in the second half from the moment the penalty was awarded and then just over 5 minutes later, the ball was only in play for 41 seconds. 
  • 25May98 said:
    I seem to remember the Americans doing this during the 1994 World Cup. They played of course to normal rules but ran a separate clock which stopped each time there was a stoppage in play. I think mist games were approx. 60 minutes - ie- ball was in play for 60 minutes. 
    Whats to stop the club putting this info on the big screen ? Ok, it might not make much difference, but if the supporters can see how much time is wasted then it might make the opposing team play slightly differently . If we are winning then just turn it off (its got a temporary fault).
  • Preston = anti-football
  • If an adult paid £26 for their ticket yesterday (I don’t know how much tickets were) then for the second half, they would have paid 58p for every minute the ball was in play.

    Just another example... The average price of a paying adult at Chelsea is £66.25, that means on average, they’re paying around £1.15 for every minute the ball is in play.

    Fans are definitely getting short changed.
  • Sage said:
    Going by the work that AA has excellently done, in just from 80-90 minutes, the ball was only in play for 4 mins 22 seconds.

    There are also times where the ball is only in play for about 4 seconds between long stoppages.

    This anti-football just has to stop, they need to do something because it ruins our game.

    I’d be more than happy with 30 minute half with the clock stopped each time the ball is out of play.
    And of course this doesn't take into account periods when teams "legitimately" time waste by taking the ball into the corner for example.
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