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Is Thomas Driesen Gone? - he popped in on p16, and back out on p26
Comments
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The problem with the Driesen approach is that it didn't deliver the battle hardened players we needed to compete in the Championship. There's nothing wrong with taking punts on players with potential - it's what the big clubs do all the time - but they have to be in addition to the "normal" signings. And players take time to get used to a new country and league, fine if they are squad players, dangerous if they are all meant to play from the start
For example the second summer's signings were disastrous, as the players were either completely unsuited to the Championship (Ceballos, Bergdich, Ba, Makienok?) or needed time to adapt - it took Sarr 3 years to look a decent player and even now he's still flawed when you consider what we paid for him AND that we dumped Morrison the previous year, the sort of mid table CB we desperately needed. Even the decent ones like Kashi and Bauer struggled with the physicality of the Championship, hence their injuries that season.9 -
There’s a photo of him on this page ⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️AFKABartram said:Is there a single ‘Driesen supporter’?0 -
Why would there be?AFKABartram said:Is there a single ‘Driesen supporter’?
He's a two-bob chancer who was complicit in the degradation of our football club17 -
Driesen to me is more a joke than a hate figure. He was hopeless and did real damage to the club, but the fault lies with whoever hired him AND kept him onStig said:
Driesen was a very convenient figure of fun. The secrecy about his role, his youthful eccentricity and the (over?)sensitive way he managed his twitter account all made him a very easy target for cheap jokes and a godsend for propaganda against the regime. He wasn't quite up there with Meire as the ultimate target, but he was on a par with the sofa, the laundry van and the duck-taped shoes as a subject of ridicule.AFKABartram said:I’ve long felt the abuse and hate towards Tommy boy has been OTT. I’m not convinced how involved he was right at the beginning with the opening disasters, and equally I’m fairly sure he has had a positive influence in the excellent recruitment of the last two years.
The situation of Gallen & co having to filter their recommendations through him wasn’t ideal, but then again, it might not have been such a bad thing having an approval phase as independent and outside the inner camp. As said, it’s a process no one can argue from the outside hasn’t worked over the last two years.
Im glad for everyone he’s gone though.
Was it fair on him? Probably not. Do I care one jot? Absolutely not. It may seem different for someone who continued to watch the football and even enjoyed it in latter years. But as someone who stopped attending, the regime was the reason behind a very unwanted change in lifestyle. He was a part of that regime. It may not have been what he wanted, but he was a part of the reason why I, and my boys, didn't attend The Valley. He had it coming. Both barrels.
Had our lives been swapped somehow, I'd have probably taken the Charlton job just as he did. Who wouldn't? But that doesn't mean that others have to accept his role in our club. I don't wish him any harm and I would be genuinely interested to hear his side of the story, but I won't be forgetting what he was a part of, in any great hurry. To me, he will always be a spotty twerp sitting in his bedroom meddling with our squad, and if a cheap joke at his expense springs to mind I'd still rather share it than stifle it.
Roland was very quick to sack his coaches yet for some reason Driesen seemed to be untouchable, despite the amount of Roland's money he wasted, and the completely unnecessary relegation.16 -
On the contrary: people that kept going had to watch his signings play 😬Stig said:
Driesen was a very convenient figure of fun. The secrecy about his role, his youthful eccentricity and the (over?)sensitive way he managed his twitter account all made him a very easy target for cheap jokes and a godsend for propaganda against the regime. He wasn't quite up there with Meire as the ultimate target, but he was on a par with the sofa, the laundry van and the duck-taped shoes as a subject of ridicule.AFKABartram said:I’ve long felt the abuse and hate towards Tommy boy has been OTT. I’m not convinced how involved he was right at the beginning with the opening disasters, and equally I’m fairly sure he has had a positive influence in the excellent recruitment of the last two years.
The situation of Gallen & co having to filter their recommendations through him wasn’t ideal, but then again, it might not have been such a bad thing having an approval phase as independent and outside the inner camp. As said, it’s a process no one can argue from the outside hasn’t worked over the last two years.
Im glad for everyone he’s gone though.
Was it fair on him? Probably not. Do I care one jot? Absolutely not. It may seem different for someone who continued to watch the football and even enjoyed it in latter years. But as someone who stopped attending, the regime was the reason behind a very unwanted change in lifestyle. He was a part of that regime. It may not have been what he wanted, but he was a part of the reason why I, and my boys, didn't attend The Valley. He had it coming. Both barrels.
Had our lives been swapped somehow, I'd have probably taken the Charlton job just as he did. Who wouldn't? But that doesn't mean that others have to accept his role in our club. I don't wish him any harm and I would be genuinely interested to hear his side of the story, but I won't be forgetting what he was a part of, in any great hurry. To me, he will always be a spotty twerp sitting in his bedroom meddling with our squad, and if a cheap joke at his expense springs to mind I'd still rather share it than stifle it.
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In our defence some of us have asked the pi55 taking to stop 😉
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His history now forget him and let’s look forward1
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Can't we enjoy a little schadenfreude first?roseandcrown said:His history now forget him and let’s look forward6 -
AFKABartram said:I’ve long felt the abuse and hate towards Tommy boy has been OTT. I’m not convinced how involved he was right at the beginning with the opening disasters, and equally I’m fairly sure he has had a positive influence in the excellent recruitment of the last two years.
The situation of Gallen & co having to filter their recommendations through him wasn’t ideal, but then again, it might not have been such a bad thing having an approval phase as independent and outside the inner camp. As said, it’s a process no one can argue from the outside hasn’t worked over the last two years.
Im glad for everyone he’s gone though.
REFER YOU BACK TO VOTV OCT 2016
cover photo taken July 2015 by myself,and photo onpage 4, march 2014. He was in it from the START.2 -
Kat?Dazzler21 said:
That girl that blogs always seemed to back him and compliment him.AFKABartram said:Is there a single ‘Driesen supporter’?0 -
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To be honest I think Dreisen became less and less of a cog the more and more Duchatelet became disinterested in the whole thing.
In the first couple of years then yeah, I reckon anyone that was brought in or recommended from the Belgian end/Duchatelet would certainly have come through him.
I would assume he had very little say on the squad Bowyer and Gallen put together. Same for Robinson and maybe some of Slades short reign.
For me, he was just one of the many ingredients in the recipe of how to run a football club very badly.3 -
Guilty by association anyway.AFKABartram said:I’ve long felt the abuse and hate towards Tommy boy has been OTT. I’m not convinced how involved he was right at the beginning with the opening disasters, and equally I’m fairly sure he has had a positive influence in the excellent recruitment of the last two years.
The situation of Gallen & co having to filter their recommendations through him wasn’t ideal, but then again, it might not have been such a bad thing having an approval phase as independent and outside the inner camp. As said, it’s a process no one can argue from the outside hasn’t worked over the last two years.
Im glad for everyone he’s gone though.0 -
AFKABartram said:I’ve long felt the abuse and hate towards Tommy boy has been OTT. I’m not convinced how involved he was right at the beginning with the opening disasters, and equally I’m fairly sure he has had a positive influence in the excellent recruitment of the last two years.
The situation of Gallen & co having to filter their recommendations through him wasn’t ideal, but then again, it might not have been such a bad thing having an approval phase as independent and outside the inner camp. As said, it’s a process no one can argue from the outside hasn’t worked over the last two years.
Im glad for everyone he’s gone though.
From the GTK The Network interviews and the leaked emails we know Dutchatelet had his scout 'analyse' the team and he decided they weren't good enough. That's when decisions were made on their futures and when people started showing up at the training ground unnanounced (including Driesen himself).
We also know from the interviews that Driesen was Dutchatelet's closest adviser and he trusted him entirely. The other scouts who said they advised Roland said they only ever advised on the odd player here and there.
We also know that this scout Roland trusted so much even thought he had the tactical knowledge to suggest to the manager what tactics he should play.
This is all documented. It might have been a while since you listened to the podcast or read Matt Wright's article but I think it's very hard to not be convinced he was involved with the disasters at the beginning, isn't it?
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I think Driesen was at the very epicentre of how and why Duchatelet's ownership was a disaster. For an experienced, intelligent, respected and talented manager to have to seek approval of a childish tablet-jockey was the very Genesis of the cataclysm that resulted. His presence was the difference between an experiment that could have worked and one which couldn't. Everything he appeared to have been involved in was terrible; and none of it was, in any way, a surprise.
"Managers should not get the final say on signings"? Fuck off.
As Chrystal Pallis fan @LouisMend summarised: "Yann's not good enough; Solly's not good enough; let's get in the likes of Loic Nego".
Yohann Thuram-Ulien is a better 'keeper than Ben Hamer or Nick Pope? Do me a favour. Which of them went on to earn a Premier League Winner's medal; which one bagged England caps and which one is now second-choice for a newly-promoted L2 team in France?
In general, in professional sport, "ticker" (as the Aussies call it) is at least as important as talent. In other words, a player may be technically gifted, but is he someone who can roll up his sleeves, get stuck in and be prepared to become a better player every single day of their career? Or is he someone who, when dropped to the bench, despite being told he's the team's first-choice 'keeper, refuses to travel to a game at Leeds United? Ticker doesn't show up on laptops. It's measured by knowing everything you can about a player before signing them; and building that relationship throughout the time they're "yours". So, I would argue that, if a footballer is recognised - by a scout - as being good enough, you would learn more about whether to recruit them by having a professional rugby, cricket or rowing coach interview them, than leaving it to a bedroom-closeted laptop-botherer.
Relying exclusively on the analysis of an internet-obsessed guttersnipe is a recipe for disaster. And when that analyst has an abysmal track record, the disaster is unavoidable. As we were forced, sadly, to witness.
He deserves every syllable of opprobrium that's shovelled in his general direction. He's gone now, for good. So the criticisms hurled at him might seem wasted. But that doesn't mean they're not thoroughly and completely deserved.28 -
Remember that on the day we were told Powell had been sacked and Riga had taken over Driesen was stood at Sparrows Lane alongside Riga overseeing training.17
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But you would be happy to blame him for Ba and Cabbellos?supaclive said:
Um.... since Gallen came in there's been a marked improvement.el-pietro said:
Your second sentence is exactly what I'm talking about. We immediately assume every good signing ever made is down to Gallen/Bowyer/anyone not connected to RD. Signings have been better since Gallen came in, I'm not denying that, but you and I have no real idea of how much input Driesen has had in that time. We only have snippets of information. Maybe since Gallen came in he has been able to better filter Driesens recommendations, or better direct them. Of course its guesswork, I'm not in the room with them, and neither are you so you don't know that hes had no positive input anymore than I know hes had only negative input.supaclive said:
That is just pure guesswork on your part.el-pietro said:FishCostaFortune said:
I think you just need to re-read that leaked email that RD sent to Powell where he mentions how his 'scouts' analysed the players and playing system and concluded that our current players were 'below average'.el-pietro said:I'm definitely interested in hearing what he has to say. Theres a tendency to blame him for all bad signings and give credit for any good signings to anyone else involved at the time. His connection to RD, as well as a general opposition by many to any statistic based analysis means he is on a hiding to nothing.Theres no doubt many of the players brought in during the early Roland years were poor, but how much of that is strictly because he chose bad players, how much of it was due to a lack of understanding of the standard of the Championship, and how much was due to restrictions on funding put in place by RD.There were definitely some decent players in his time, Igor had his difficulties with injuries but he was clearly talented. JBG is playing in the Premier League. Paddy Bauer scored one of the most important goals in recent Charlton history. I have no idea how much involvement he had in these signings or others, but potentially he could do a decent job identifying talent as part of a proper recruitment structure. He definitely shouldn't be given final say on signings, but if he had a role looking for under the radar players and passing on recommendations then that could work.I suspect hes probably due more credit than he has traditionally been given, but I also suspect he won't do himself any favours by speaking publicly cos he comes across as cocky prick who will try to give himself credit for any good signings and pass off any bad signings as someone elses fault.
In this email RD specifically refers to the 'scout who was heavily involved in this exercise' who essentially 'knows more than Powell' and made the decisions on which players we should sell (Kermogrant), and which players we should play (Thuram obviously). I am going to assume that Scout was Driesen, and I don't think he deserves any credit for any of that.Yeah the entire system was a disaster. From the outside looking in Driesen appears to have been given too much decision making power. Thats not entirely his fault, though it does highlight his overconfidence/cockiness.That doesn't mean there weren't some interesting ideas that if implemented in a better system with more oversight by experienced football people who understand the championship and Charlton in particular couldn't have worked.
Compare recruitment since Gallen took over!
No way on earth did Tommy D know ANYTHING about Cullen, Field, Gallacher, Leko, Bielik or any youth footballer playing in the Prem or Efl.
Do me a favour!0 -
Yes because on the whole his record was appalling. I can pick better players than him.Cafc43v3r said:
But you would be happy to blame him for Ba and Cabbellos?supaclive said:
Um.... since Gallen came in there's been a marked improvement.el-pietro said:
Your second sentence is exactly what I'm talking about. We immediately assume every good signing ever made is down to Gallen/Bowyer/anyone not connected to RD. Signings have been better since Gallen came in, I'm not denying that, but you and I have no real idea of how much input Driesen has had in that time. We only have snippets of information. Maybe since Gallen came in he has been able to better filter Driesens recommendations, or better direct them. Of course its guesswork, I'm not in the room with them, and neither are you so you don't know that hes had no positive input anymore than I know hes had only negative input.supaclive said:
That is just pure guesswork on your part.el-pietro said:FishCostaFortune said:
I think you just need to re-read that leaked email that RD sent to Powell where he mentions how his 'scouts' analysed the players and playing system and concluded that our current players were 'below average'.el-pietro said:I'm definitely interested in hearing what he has to say. Theres a tendency to blame him for all bad signings and give credit for any good signings to anyone else involved at the time. His connection to RD, as well as a general opposition by many to any statistic based analysis means he is on a hiding to nothing.Theres no doubt many of the players brought in during the early Roland years were poor, but how much of that is strictly because he chose bad players, how much of it was due to a lack of understanding of the standard of the Championship, and how much was due to restrictions on funding put in place by RD.There were definitely some decent players in his time, Igor had his difficulties with injuries but he was clearly talented. JBG is playing in the Premier League. Paddy Bauer scored one of the most important goals in recent Charlton history. I have no idea how much involvement he had in these signings or others, but potentially he could do a decent job identifying talent as part of a proper recruitment structure. He definitely shouldn't be given final say on signings, but if he had a role looking for under the radar players and passing on recommendations then that could work.I suspect hes probably due more credit than he has traditionally been given, but I also suspect he won't do himself any favours by speaking publicly cos he comes across as cocky prick who will try to give himself credit for any good signings and pass off any bad signings as someone elses fault.
In this email RD specifically refers to the 'scout who was heavily involved in this exercise' who essentially 'knows more than Powell' and made the decisions on which players we should sell (Kermogrant), and which players we should play (Thuram obviously). I am going to assume that Scout was Driesen, and I don't think he deserves any credit for any of that.Yeah the entire system was a disaster. From the outside looking in Driesen appears to have been given too much decision making power. Thats not entirely his fault, though it does highlight his overconfidence/cockiness.That doesn't mean there weren't some interesting ideas that if implemented in a better system with more oversight by experienced football people who understand the championship and Charlton in particular couldn't have worked.
Compare recruitment since Gallen took over!
No way on earth did Tommy D know ANYTHING about Cullen, Field, Gallacher, Leko, Bielik or any youth footballer playing in the Prem or Efl.
Do me a favour!1 -
But you said he knew nothing about young reserve players so couldn't get any credit for the players you mentioned, but you have 100% conviction that he did sign 2 that weren't very good?0
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I am saying he knows fuck all about picking players with talent, temperament and the ability to handle Championship football. Compared to Powell, Chappell, Gallen and Bowyer.Cafc43v3r said:But you said he knew nothing about young reserve players so couldn't get any credit for the players you mentioned, but you have 100% conviction that he did sign 2 that weren't very good?
End of.
If he knew more than Riga, Peeters, Luzon and Fraey we know who is to blame there!!!0 -
I’d like to think that anyone brought in by the regime of Roland was now on their way out. However, in today’s programme Tom Rubbershoes is still listed as being part of the club. I’d rather he went too so we could have a fresh start.5
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Rubbershoes isn’t that bad, he was only doing his job/following (crap) orders....2
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You never said compared to anyone. You said he knows nothing of young players in the efl or Premier. You said you know for a fact he didn't have anything to do with signing the good ones and is 100% responsible for the bad ones.supaclive said:
I am saying he knows fuck all about picking players with talent, temperament and the ability to handle Championship football. Compared to Powell, Chappell, Gallen and Bowyer.Cafc43v3r said:But you said he knew nothing about young reserve players so couldn't get any credit for the players you mentioned, but you have 100% conviction that he did sign 2 that weren't very good?
End of.
If he knew more than Riga, Peeters, Luzon and Fraey we know who is to blame there!!!
You don't know, your guessing, unless he told you himself? Your presenting your opinion and guess work as fact. I am just pointing that out.
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I never said for a fact he didn't have anything to do with signing the good ones - but again, look at the recruitment before him, then with him and then since Gallen joined
You DO THE MATHS!1 -
I thought I remember the GTKTN doc mentioning a series of scouts who worked across the Network, some of them quite senior so perhaps it wasn’t just Tommy boy in those early days. Those other scouts obviously didn’t know anything about the English game either.FishCostaFortune said:
As I mentioned previously in this thread, the leaked emails here: https://gettingtoknowthenetwork.com/the-emails/, clearly show that Roland and thus player recruitment were heavily influenced by a scout who was 'heavily involved in analysing players and the playing system'.AFKABartram said:I’ve long felt the abuse and hate towards Tommy boy has been OTT. I’m not convinced how involved he was right at the beginning with the opening disasters, and equally I’m fairly sure he has had a positive influence in the excellent recruitment of the last two years.
The situation of Gallen & co having to filter their recommendations through him wasn’t ideal, but then again, it might not have been such a bad thing having an approval phase as independent and outside the inner camp. As said, it’s a process no one can argue from the outside hasn’t worked over the last two years.
Im glad for everyone he’s gone though.
It seems clear to me that this scout is Driesen, and was the one who choose which players we released and which players we brought in at the beginning of Roland's ownership. Player recruitment at this juncture was at its complete worse, and is what caused the opening disasters we experienced.
I am of course basing this on what I have seen and read, and maybe there was actually someone else whose name I have not heard who had Roland's ear instead, and Driesen was just a small cog in that machine.2 -
Who said this then "No way on earth did Tommy D know ANYTHING about Cullen, Field, Gallacher, Leko, Bielik or any youth footballer playing in the Prem or Efl. Do me a favour!"supaclive said:I never said for a fact he didn't have anything to do with signing the good ones - but again, look at the recruitment before him, then with him and then since Gallen joined
You DO THE MATHS!
Or was that when you said you were comparing him to Gallen, Bowyer, Powell etc?2 -
@Cafc43v3r Tommy D did not choose those players GALLEN DID!
Name me the young Premier or EFL players that Charlton took on loan before Gallen joined and after Powell / Chappell left.
I'll sit here waiting for the list of stellar recruits.
Because IF Tommy D knew all of these players BEFORE Gallen you'll recount to me countless quality loan signings......
And if you can do that I'll admit I'm wrong.....1 -
I didn't say they were quality or if Gallen signed them or not. I also never said they were stellar.
You said Tommy would never heard of them. I questioned how he knew of Ba and Cabellos and you would be happy to blame him for those signings.
We also signed the midfielder from Man United plus Yaya Sanogo and Coquelin. Off the top of my head.1 -
Didn't they say the original transfer window was done by the sporting director of Standard?SouthLincsAddick said:
I thought I remember the GTKTN doc mentioning a series of scouts who worked across the Network, some of them quite senior so perhaps it wasn’t just Tommy boy in those early days. Those other scouts obviously didn’t know anything about the English game either.FishCostaFortune said:
As I mentioned previously in this thread, the leaked emails here: https://gettingtoknowthenetwork.com/the-emails/, clearly show that Roland and thus player recruitment were heavily influenced by a scout who was 'heavily involved in analysing players and the playing system'.AFKABartram said:I’ve long felt the abuse and hate towards Tommy boy has been OTT. I’m not convinced how involved he was right at the beginning with the opening disasters, and equally I’m fairly sure he has had a positive influence in the excellent recruitment of the last two years.
The situation of Gallen & co having to filter their recommendations through him wasn’t ideal, but then again, it might not have been such a bad thing having an approval phase as independent and outside the inner camp. As said, it’s a process no one can argue from the outside hasn’t worked over the last two years.
Im glad for everyone he’s gone though.
It seems clear to me that this scout is Driesen, and was the one who choose which players we released and which players we brought in at the beginning of Roland's ownership. Player recruitment at this juncture was at its complete worse, and is what caused the opening disasters we experienced.
I am of course basing this on what I have seen and read, and maybe there was actually someone else whose name I have not heard who had Roland's ear instead, and Driesen was just a small cog in that machine.0 -
You’re probably right. We’d have to listen back to GTKTN again but I’d rather not do that again. Too many bad memories (as good as the docs were). Here’s to the future!Cafc43v3r said:
Didn't they say the original transfer window was done by the sporting director of Standard?SouthLincsAddick said:
I thought I remember the GTKTN doc mentioning a series of scouts who worked across the Network, some of them quite senior so perhaps it wasn’t just Tommy boy in those early days. Those other scouts obviously didn’t know anything about the English game either.FishCostaFortune said:
As I mentioned previously in this thread, the leaked emails here: https://gettingtoknowthenetwork.com/the-emails/, clearly show that Roland and thus player recruitment were heavily influenced by a scout who was 'heavily involved in analysing players and the playing system'.AFKABartram said:I’ve long felt the abuse and hate towards Tommy boy has been OTT. I’m not convinced how involved he was right at the beginning with the opening disasters, and equally I’m fairly sure he has had a positive influence in the excellent recruitment of the last two years.
The situation of Gallen & co having to filter their recommendations through him wasn’t ideal, but then again, it might not have been such a bad thing having an approval phase as independent and outside the inner camp. As said, it’s a process no one can argue from the outside hasn’t worked over the last two years.
Im glad for everyone he’s gone though.
It seems clear to me that this scout is Driesen, and was the one who choose which players we released and which players we brought in at the beginning of Roland's ownership. Player recruitment at this juncture was at its complete worse, and is what caused the opening disasters we experienced.
I am of course basing this on what I have seen and read, and maybe there was actually someone else whose name I have not heard who had Roland's ear instead, and Driesen was just a small cog in that machine.0 -
This is massive for me.Ross said:Remember that on the day we were told Powell had been sacked and Riga had taken over Driesen was stood at Sparrows Lane alongside Riga overseeing training.18
