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Set-Pieces - a long standing issue?

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  • Starinnaddick
    Starinnaddick Posts: 4,342
    How many defenders are on international duty ? Happy won't be able to work on much this week. 
  • Cafc43v3r
    Cafc43v3r Posts: 21,600
    Carter said:
    I love set pieces, they are great levellers at any tier of the game. When trying a new trick, chaos and the spreading of chaos amongst the opposition is the aim of the game. Everyone groans when a short corner is attempted, I get them but they have to have a purpose. If you have David Beckham in your side you can have him swinging corners in and out onto towering attacking centre halves heads all day but this level you have to be sly, deviant and different. There are plenty of ways you can do it and I'd expect our coaches to have done more regarding at least the attacking ones. 

    Defending them we have a problem and defending set pieces is all about communication, decisions and aggression. Attack the ball, I don't like zonal marking but I understand the point of it, when we had Jayden he was our free headerer, he could patrol his own zone and most of the time dealt with sloppy deliveries. Our defence mince too much and do a phenomenal amount of ball watching when defending free kicks and corners which is the first thing that must change 
    Man United didn't score directly from a Beckham corner in the last two season he was there.  Inside half an hour of their first game after he left boom. 

    Generally, for what ever reason, even the best dead ball players are much worse at corners than you would expect them to be.
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,348
    edited September 2023
    I remember back when Jacko was still playing, he said he didn't feel his teammates were aggressive enough in attacking the ball at set pieces because that's really the key to scoring goals. Micky Apples said in his first interview we need to be more aggressive. There has definitely been a lack of desire to lose markers and get to the ball, coupled with poor deliveries.
  • thickandthin63
    thickandthin63 Posts: 2,953
    Set pieces do my head in,how hard is it to kick a dead ball 40-50 yards in the air.Sunday morning players can do it,but just watch our elite professionals ,how many corners dont even make the penalty area,how many dead ball kicks go straight to the keeper,it is simple just aim for the penalty spot and have the attackers running on to it from the penalty area edge.
  • Scoham
    Scoham Posts: 37,376
    According to this between 2010 and 2020 only 3% of corners in Europe’s top 5 leagues resulted in a goal. Shows they’re not anywhere near as effective as they’re perceived to be. https://youtu.be/rvP3Ee12sU8?si=P3hcajy4YcynxEb6
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 11,038
    Had a look back at our league goals (with basic FotMob descriptions rather than watching them so might not be accurate) and noticed we've only conceded from 1 corner and 1 free kick in the league this season. Going by my memory we've conceded at least 2 from our own attacking set pieces too. Not sure that tells the whole story though as we're definitely very shakey and seem to get lucky not to concede quite frequently
  • thenewbie
    thenewbie Posts: 11,000
    fenaddick said:
    Had a look back at our league goals (with basic FotMob descriptions rather than watching them so might not be accurate) and noticed we've only conceded from 1 corner and 1 free kick in the league this season. Going by my memory we've conceded at least 2 from our own attacking set pieces too. Not sure that tells the whole story though as we're definitely very shakey and seem to get lucky not to concede quite frequently
    I'm not a statistics expert and have no numbers but my feeling isn't that we are particularly vulnerable to initial set pieces, it's our inability to organise and counter that's the issue.

    The actual delivery in doesn't lead directly to a goal but the defence end up dithering and confused so each time ends up giving the opposition maybe 2 or  3 bites at the metaphorical apple beyond that initial ball in, which eventually is going to tell... and does.
  • fenaddick
    fenaddick Posts: 11,038
    thenewbie said:
    fenaddick said:
    Had a look back at our league goals (with basic FotMob descriptions rather than watching them so might not be accurate) and noticed we've only conceded from 1 corner and 1 free kick in the league this season. Going by my memory we've conceded at least 2 from our own attacking set pieces too. Not sure that tells the whole story though as we're definitely very shakey and seem to get lucky not to concede quite frequently
    I'm not a statistics expert and have no numbers but my feeling isn't that we are particularly vulnerable to initial set pieces, it's our inability to organise and counter that's the issue.

    The actual delivery in doesn't lead directly to a goal but the defence end up dithering and confused so each time ends up giving the opposition maybe 2 or  3 bites at the metaphorical apple beyond that initial ball in, which eventually is going to tell... and does.
    I think you're spot on. Feels like the majority of the set pieces we defend require 2/3 attempted clearances. I guess that suggests either the defensive heading isn't good enough or our players on the edge of the box aren't positioned correctly
  • thenewbie
    thenewbie Posts: 11,000
    fenaddick said:
    thenewbie said:
    fenaddick said:
    Had a look back at our league goals (with basic FotMob descriptions rather than watching them so might not be accurate) and noticed we've only conceded from 1 corner and 1 free kick in the league this season. Going by my memory we've conceded at least 2 from our own attacking set pieces too. Not sure that tells the whole story though as we're definitely very shakey and seem to get lucky not to concede quite frequently
    I'm not a statistics expert and have no numbers but my feeling isn't that we are particularly vulnerable to initial set pieces, it's our inability to organise and counter that's the issue.

    The actual delivery in doesn't lead directly to a goal but the defence end up dithering and confused so each time ends up giving the opposition maybe 2 or  3 bites at the metaphorical apple beyond that initial ball in, which eventually is going to tell... and does.
    I think you're spot on. Feels like the majority of the set pieces we defend require 2/3 attempted clearances. I guess that suggests either the defensive heading isn't good enough or our players on the edge of the box aren't positioned correctly
    Also our lack of an outlet up front as well. Even if we do clear, then frequently it was aimed about two feet above May's head and ended up right back in our own box in short order.

    This will hopefully be less of an issue with Leaburn back or even someone like Tedic giving us a chance to actually break in numbers, or at least make other teams have to consider leaving more players back.

  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    It's almost as if we need a big aggressive CB for corners at both ends of the pitch.
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  • Carter
    Carter Posts: 14,243
    Cafc43v3r said:
    Carter said:
    I love set pieces, they are great levellers at any tier of the game. When trying a new trick, chaos and the spreading of chaos amongst the opposition is the aim of the game. Everyone groans when a short corner is attempted, I get them but they have to have a purpose. If you have David Beckham in your side you can have him swinging corners in and out onto towering attacking centre halves heads all day but this level you have to be sly, deviant and different. There are plenty of ways you can do it and I'd expect our coaches to have done more regarding at least the attacking ones. 

    Defending them we have a problem and defending set pieces is all about communication, decisions and aggression. Attack the ball, I don't like zonal marking but I understand the point of it, when we had Jayden he was our free headerer, he could patrol his own zone and most of the time dealt with sloppy deliveries. Our defence mince too much and do a phenomenal amount of ball watching when defending free kicks and corners which is the first thing that must change 
    Man United didn't score directly from a Beckham corner in the last two season he was there.  Inside half an hour of their first game after he left boom. 

    Generally, for what ever reason, even the best dead ball players are much worse at corners than you would expect them to be.
    Corners are one thing, dead ball deliveries from free kicks in a variety of locations are definitely another. I cant speak to Man United but for England we scored loads.of goals either from a Beckham free kick directly or by him planting the ball onto someone like John Terry's head. If you like replace Beckham with Pirlo, Del Piero, Gascoigne. All of them wonderful strikers of the ball with an incredible technique to whip balls into that red zone between the 6 yard line and the penalty spot. Thats the equaliser. Of course it helps massively to have players with the desire to properly attack the ball. Thats what Jacko was majestic at and he, to my knowledge, never played with any of the players mentioned above. 

    The first thing with set pieces is that players must understand where they need to be positioned and what their job is (blocker, decoy etc) both offensively and defensively. Then its about putting the ball in the right area, if you have Pirlo or Beckham that bit takes care of itself, then its on the players to properly attack the ball with desire and intent  

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