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Fires in Australia

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  • What is backbiting?
  • edited January 2020
    What is backbiting?
    A typo!  Meant back burning
  • I think it is back-burning, predictive text?  To stop fires jumping from fuel invigorating trees, you burn tracts of brush between them, causing fires to burn out.  This no longer happens, not sure if it is a culture or funding issue.
  • edited January 2020
    Backburning (noun): a convenient way for the reactionary press to place the blame for a disaster caused by global warming at the foot of the very people who would work to stop it happening again, and have the population believe them.

    The following Twitter thread by an enviromental scientist sets the record straight:

    https://twitter.com/jagungal1/status/1212937426034782208

    And then there's this:

    https://twitter.com/marlenesarroff/status/1213028225783230467

    And now an article, by yet another expert (a firefighter this time):

    https://dingo.news/voice/2019/11/14/bruce-walker-wytaliba-rfs-member-survivor-correcting-disinformation-about-bushfires-causes-and-hazard-reduction/

    Obviously there's more to say, and ideally I'd keep politics out of this thread as it isn't on the politics board, but I can't stand to watch people who are being affected by the fire being led to such terribly inaccurate and damaging conclusions by the establishment press.
  • And yet more money was raised for a church in France 
    Not from the British foreign aid budget, though. Not, as far as I know, anything from any UK government department. Nor as far as I know did France expect something, still less ask for it, from us. I expect Australia would be the same. On the other hand if Australia thought the UK had specialist gear or people we could lend, it would ask, and I am sure we would say yes. Can't see what that would be though, especially as anything from our Navy is thousands of miles away.

    If you want to make sure the right people get  support, quickly, here's the donation page for the NSW Rural Fire Service. Unfortunately the Victoria one is not set up to easily receive donations from abroad.


  • Leuth, I am confused by your post. Do fire breaks prevent bushfires or create them? Is the crisis caused by arson or lack of fire planning? Or simply high temperatures from global warming?
  • edited January 2020
    It is caused by global climate change. Fire breaks (which can contain fires to an extent) have been increasingly difficult to do in recent years for reasons outlined in the links, all of which are to do with either climate change or land clearances (caused in part by over-vigorous backburning). The Greens have never been in power and have never been in a position to ban backburning. It is the usual culture-war bollocks, in other words, except this time it is culture-war bollocks about something that is eating an entire country as we type. And it's so fucking distressing
  • edited January 2020
    Thanks Leuth. I think land management here (Crown Estates etc) Madagascar, Brazil, Australia and other places, deserves more discussion. But the Oz crisis is down to this specifically, not climate change which is marginal but no less important.
  • That’s exactly the point Stu. Prague is saying if the uk government make a contribution it goes to the Australian government. I think what those of us who are apparently point scoring are saying, it should be possible that the aid budget can go directly from the uk government to specific front line groups that individuals are contributing to when in these diasister situations.
    Ok, let's try to imagine this in real life. What do you want to donate from the aid budget? let's say £200m. Ok, where is it going to go? Towards beefing up the resources of the fire services perhaps. So we send the money directly to the fire services?

    Right. I don't know Oz that well but both its politics and its media are even more raucous than here. Just imagine the absolute political shitstorm that breaks out when it is announced "Brits provide the money Morrision should have coughed up years ago" would be a mild version, I reckon. Look at those clips of people in the affected townships telling Morrison straight. Imagine what they would say to him if they now know that British money is coming in when their own (taxpayers) money didn't. No government risks that kind of internal political disruption as a result of trying to help. It isn't just the UK. It's international protocol. You give it to the government concerned and then you just hope they will use it wisely. It's a bit shit, but you tell me how it would be able to work more directly.
  • I’m not a fan of Nick Kyrgios, Aussie tennis player, number 30 in world rankings.  He is the only player to have beaten Federer, Nadal and Djokovic the first time playing them.  But his on-court behaviour does him no credit and I’m surprised he’s even allowed to compete the big tournaments.  Worse, sometimes he cannt even be bothered - great for anyone paying good money to see a competitive match.

    But my estimation went up when he announced he will donate $200 to a fire fund for every ace he serves this Australian summer.  On the basis of last year that will be around $120,000.  Other Players are donating too.
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  • The issue is fundamentally climate change driven. See the ever accurate wiki page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_Australia
  • edited January 2020
    Climate change faciitates rural fires bit doesn't cause them (and I'm a huge fan of Greta Thunberg). We have had fires on Saddleworth Moor, Chobham Common New Forest and more and it is taters outside.
  • edited January 2020
    Causes of starting = Arson, Lightning and accidental.

  • McBobbin, ever accurate Wiki? Graph purports changes in average temperatures since 1910 but X axis labelled since 1961. The graph demonstrates huge changes but the data ranges from minus one to plus one, a total of two per cent, not acceptable but not the calamity the statistics seek to portray.  How has the world's population grown in last 60 years? Has that had no impact?

    Not false news, but media manipulation of public opinion all the same.
  • That’s exactly the point Stu. Prague is saying if the uk government make a contribution it goes to the Australian government. I think what those of us who are apparently point scoring are saying, it should be possible that the aid budget can go directly from the uk government to specific front line groups that individuals are contributing to when in these diasister situations.
    Ok, let's try to imagine this in real life. What do you want to donate from the aid budget? let's say £200m. Ok, where is it going to go? Towards beefing up the resources of the fire services perhaps. So we send the money directly to the fire services?

    Right. I don't know Oz that well but both its politics and its media are even more raucous than here. Just imagine the absolute political shitstorm that breaks out when it is announced "Brits provide the money Morrision should have coughed up years ago" would be a mild version, I reckon. Look at those clips of people in the affected townships telling Morrison straight. Imagine what they would say to him if they now know that British money is coming in when their own (taxpayers) money didn't. No government risks that kind of internal political disruption as a result of trying to help. It isn't just the UK. It's international protocol. You give it to the government concerned and then you just hope they will use it wisely. It's a bit shit, but you tell me how it would be able to work more directly.
    You give it straight to the frontline and forget the political point scoring, worry about the people involved, not what happens to Morrison!

    This is linked to climate change, maybe not entirely, but certainly partly, therefore we are all responsibility so have a responsibility to help.
  • A very interesting perspective Ormy! Thanks a lot!

    Land management is something I know almost nothing about but I am aware that 'back burning' happens here in preparation for dry season and someone in my family is involved with one areas planning, she has mentioned before how for the last few years it has become much harder to get everything done as the window of opportunity is getting much smaller.

    One thing the Yunnan government has done during the ever increasing dry seasons is to let off 'rain bombs' now whilst these may not be ideal for residents, as no one enjoys day long downpours but it certainly helps farmers keeping up supply of vegetables and it stops everything from dying due to a total lack of water, I wonder if this is something that has ever been considered in Australia.

    Sadly I imagine these 'rain bombs' have a long term detrimental affect on the pollution levels on the ground and possibly in the atmosphere but as I'm sure you're aware, most things here are considered very much on a 'now' basis.


  • edited January 2020
    A very interesting perspective Ormy! Thanks a lot!

    Land management is something I know almost nothing about but I am aware that 'back burning' happens here in preparation for dry season and someone in my family is involved with one areas planning, she has mentioned before how for the last few years it has become much harder to get everything done as the window of opportunity is getting much smaller.

    One thing the Yunnan government has done during the ever increasing dry seasons is to let off 'rain bombs' now whilst these may not be ideal for residents, as no one enjoys day long downpours but it certainly helps farmers keeping up supply of vegetables and it stops everything from dying due to a total lack of water, I wonder if this is something that has ever been considered in Australia.

    Sadly I imagine these 'rain bombs' have a long term detrimental affect on the pollution levels on the ground and possibly in the atmosphere but as I'm sure you're aware, most things here are considered very much on a 'now' basis.


    They do something very similar here but it's incredibly expensive and has only limited impact.

    I think it's hard for most people in the UK (I know you are in China) to comprehend just how hot and dry it gets here in summertime.

    To give an example people can understand I put a load of bed sheets on the line yesterday after washing them and they were literally bone dry within 20 minutes - so you can imagine how dry the foliage gets after months and months of no rain.
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  • It's been a bad year here for rain, resulting in large parts of the city only having water for 4-5 hours a day, so I can't even imagine how bad it is there!


  • Ormiston_Addick said:
    I think it's hard for most people in the UK (I know you are in China) to comprehend just how hot and dry it gets here in summertime.

    To give an example people can understand I put a load of bed sheets on the line yesterday after washing them and they were literally bone dry within 20 minutes - so you can imagine how dry the foliage gets after months and months of no rain.
    Bloody hell, my tumble drier wouldn't get a couple of t-shirts dry in that little time.
  • Australia has been burning for months now and its terrifying. 

    It's getting to the point now where the fires are completely unstoppable and there is little more we can do that pray for rain (and donate). 

    I have an uncle in a Sydney suburb (middle of a town) and has been told the first are 7 miles away are they are on an evacuation alert. Its terrifying because there are thousands of homes between the 'edge' of Sydney and where he lives so it must be terrifyingly close.

    Reports are saying half a billion animals have already died and it will be more than a billion in a week or so. A BILLION ANIMALS. Its just heartbreaking, whole species will be completely wiped out. Awful.

  • On back burning. I've read a bit about it and the argument is that now the dry season extends for so long there isnt actually a safe time to carry out back burning. Without being able to rely on rains coming, back burning would be a massive risk at starting huge uncontrollable Bush fires.
  • Not good today... You can smell the smoke in the air... Really eerie 
  • The Australian government have to sort this out and its a massive logistical problem. 

    New Zealand has been sending troops and firefighters.
  • The Australian government have to sort this out and its a massive logistical problem. 

    New Zealand has been sending troops and firefighters.
    The only way anyone can "sort it out" would be prolonged heavy rain and much cooler weather.

    Sadly neither are likely in the near term. 
  • Good luck to all those in Oz. No idea what the solutions are, I don’t claim to be an expert in land management, back burning or the correct application of our international aid budget, just hoping that those who do have the requisite skills are able to figure out the solution quickly. 
  • I read online that the volunteer firefighters get their benefits stopped if they're unemployed as they can't apply for the number of jobs a week required by the govt agency that administers benefits (which I could imagine our DWP doing easily) - can any posters in Aus confirm if that's true? Another reason to donate direct to the Fire Services 
  • Thanks @Ormiston_Addick makes it clearer
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