I filled out a petition against the banning of the tidal flow at Blackwall tunnel and this is the response I got
Tidal flow at the Blackwall tunnel was first introduced in 1978 when traffic conditions were very different. The system retained two lanes of northbound traffic within the northbound tunnel but also introduced two-way working in the southbound tunnel, thus providing three northbound lanes for relatively short periods of time during the a.m. peak, at the expense of southbound traffic. The Metropolitan Police have operated Tidal Flow at Blackwall since its inception. They observed traffic levels and took operational decisions on whether tidal flow should be introduced each day, and when this should be.
In providing three lanes of northbound traffic, the system accommodated around an extra 350 vehicles an hour travelling northbound. But reducing southbound traffic to one lane was at a disproportionate 'cost' to southbound flow of about 800 vehicles an hour, because of the need to clear southbound traffic before introducing the northbound flow.
Whilst operating the tidal flow system originally made more efficient use of the tunnel, it has become generally less efficient in recent years due to gradual changes in traffic flows. In addition it introduced 'head on' traffic conditions. This raised the risk of accidents far higher than would be the case with single-flow traffic. With 'head on' traffic conditions, closing speeds between vehicles are inevitably higher than with one-way flow.
Following incidents in tunnels across Europe, a European Directive was issued to harmonize safety standards within road tunnels on the Trans-European Road Network (in the UK, the motorway network). Member states are encouraged to implement comparable safety standards for all tunnels irrespective of whether or not they fall on that Network. The roads leading to Blackwall tunnel are of a very similar character to the roads forming the Trans-European Road Network. It would be irresponsible for TfL or any other organisation to ignore the lessons learned from recent disasters.
The Directive calls for tunnels with high volumes of traffic to operate one way. The reasoning behind this is that with one way operation the traffic beyond an incident will clear allowing unimpeded access for rescue and emergency services should it be needed. With two way operation, traffic approaches from either direction can be expected to become blocked during an incident, with motorists attempting to escape hindering the access of emergency services and rescue operations. With high traffic flows the significance of vehicles obstructing rescue services intensifies. In the event of a fire, the toxic and poisonous fumes would be vented away from any people behind the incident, but with two way traffic the people approaching from the 'wrong' direction are at severe risk of being starved of oxygen or poisoned by gases given off from the fire.
The Mont Blanc tunnel had operated successfully for 34 years until 1999 when a major fire caused the deaths of 39 people and led to the closure of the tunnel for three years. More recently, fires in St Gotthard and Viamala tunnels have both resulted in multiple fatalities and long term closure of the tunnels.
The tidal flow system was withdrawn as the Metropolitan Police were no longer willing to operate it given rising numbers of drivers taking risks by overtaking in the tunnel and the approach roads to it. Given such driver behaviour, and the subsequent increased risk of a serious accident occurring, it would have been irresponsible to allow such a significant operational risk to continue.
TfL had determined a strategy to engage stakeholders on the decision to cease Tidal Flow operations at Blackwall Tunnel, but was unable to implement it given the view of the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) that the safety risks were too high and the system should cease on 20 April.
TfL is monitoring the impact of the cessation of tidal flow. Initial results indicate that journey times for northbound traffic through the tunnel are largely unaffected, and queues have now settled to similar proportions to those that existed before (starting somewhere between Woolwich Road and the 'Sun in the Sands'). However journey times for southbound traffic are much improved.
TfL has invited tenders for a comprehensive review of the operation of the A102, and the selected consultant will be reviewing all relevant data and making recommendations for improvements, which TfL will consider later this year.
TfL believe with careful design the small amount of capacity lost by the removal of tidal flow can be regained by ensuring that the A102 operates more smoothly and reliably in the future.
TfL has been meeting with various stakeholders, such as the London Borough of Bexley, the GLA Transport Committee, London Travelwatch and other local councillors, to discuss the reasoning behind the decision to stop the tidal flow, and will continue to offer explanations to stakeholders as required. A meeting has also been planned with London Boroughs of Greenwich, Lewisham, Tower Hamlets and Newham to review traffic flows in the whole area 3 months after cessation of tidal flow.
[cite]Posted By: Buckshee[/cite]Living in Charlton all I do is go down bugsby way and turn left just after the holiday inn still only takes me just over half hour to get from mine to the other side of the pipe.
You wanna try sitting at that roundabout everyday but not want to go into the tunnel, just to the other side of the bridge, its atrocious mate. So many people just dont no how to drive, where to position themselves to go into the tunnel and where noot to position themselves. It is totally fecked up. Everyday i have to give myself an hour to get to work, its 5 miles ffs! I hate this country, its shit. FACT
[cite]Posted By: buckshee[/cite]well I tell you what , I aint had one of those leaflets . What about you inspector?
Nope. But most consultation exercises are bollocks anyway, and Greenwich Council's especially bad at it. However, since you and I both live in Charlton, and the proposed congestion charge zone is around Greenwich and Blackheath, they'll probably have dropped the leaflet there to get the *right* result. (And they're probably hoping people in Lewisham don't notice at all.)
I'm not quite sure what shit-stirring about a mosque has to do with this thread, frankly.
And the Blackwall Tunnel tidal-flow decision was taken by the police, not TfL/ Ken - page 14 of this TfL document: yes, it's dull to look through these, but it's better to know this kind of stuff before you start spouting off.
Although, frankly, anyone who drives like an idiot through the tunnel should just have their car/ van crushed to prevent everyone else being incovenienced.
From what I could make of that gobbledygook it is the fault of the EU that the tidal flow has gone.
Reference is made to a European Directive which we have to comply with because EU laws take primacy to UK laws.
Europhiles argue that the EU and its machinations doesn't affect ordinary people hence Gordon saying no need for a referendum on the rejigged constitution.
The Blackwall Tunnel is the most recent example to give the lie to that!
The cameras down blackheath hill have been there for a while and are CCTV, they can be used fot the cc if it comes in. Have also noticed small size boxes attached to lamp post with speed signs above, these are popping up all over the place, for anyone in the bexleyheath area top end of the high street cameras have been placed at the traffic lights.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]From what I could make of that gobbledygook it is the fault of the EU that the tidal flow has gone.
Reference is made to a European Directive which we have to comply with because EU laws take primacy to UK laws.
Europhiles argue that the EU and its machinations doesn't affect ordinary people hence Gordon saying no need for a referendum on the rejigged constitution.
The Blackwall Tunnel is the most recent example to give the lie to that!
I also believe the recent spell of wet weather is the European Union's fault...
From what I can see the tunnel queues are not much if any longer then they were before the only change is all the coaches are now coming through the Standard. A friend who drives to Hackney every morning said yes it did get worse but now it is not taking any longer.
However if it is the Police's role to manage the tidal flow then if people were over taking what had they not installed camera's reduced the maximum speed to say 15 mph (so head on crash is only at 30 mph). and got cameras in for that as well. It is pardon the pun a cop out to say people were driving dangerously you are the F~** polis so do something about it.
The EU directive only cover tunnels on motorways and as they have downgraded the A102(M) to A102 does not apply though it is similar to roads that do.
I think the whole thing lacks imagination from the polis from TfL, etc.
Cycle, you avin a laff!! this is me we are talking aboot!
Train, yeah tight that'll happen!! ANyway there is no station near where i work, and dont forget i dont live charlton anymore, i live in beleverederederderederderede.
Sorry, didnt get the details right. Here's a copy from the doc...
"The Blackwall Tunnel northbound bore has to be closed for refurbishment to address fire safety and evacuation requirements. The closure will also enable added over-height protection and radio break-in measures to be installed. The closure will last for 21 months. The start of works has been delayed due to legal issues and further optionerring. Transport for London will keep the Forum advised of the programme at future meetings"
Comments
Tidal flow at the Blackwall tunnel was first introduced in 1978 when traffic conditions were very different. The system retained two lanes of northbound traffic within the northbound tunnel but also introduced two-way working in the southbound tunnel, thus providing three northbound lanes for relatively short periods of time during the a.m. peak, at the expense of southbound traffic. The Metropolitan Police have operated Tidal Flow at Blackwall since its inception. They observed traffic levels and took operational decisions on whether tidal flow should be introduced each day, and when this should be.
In providing three lanes of northbound traffic, the system accommodated around an extra 350 vehicles an hour travelling northbound. But reducing southbound traffic to one lane was at a disproportionate 'cost' to southbound flow of about 800 vehicles an hour, because of the need to clear southbound traffic before introducing the northbound flow.
Whilst operating the tidal flow system originally made more efficient use of the tunnel, it has become generally less efficient in recent years due to gradual changes in traffic flows. In addition it introduced 'head on' traffic conditions. This raised the risk of accidents far higher than would be the case with single-flow traffic. With 'head on' traffic conditions, closing speeds between vehicles are inevitably higher than with one-way flow.
Following incidents in tunnels across Europe, a European Directive was issued to harmonize safety standards within road tunnels on the Trans-European Road Network (in the UK, the motorway network). Member states are encouraged to implement comparable safety standards for all tunnels irrespective of whether or not they fall on that Network. The roads leading to Blackwall tunnel are of a very similar character to the roads forming the Trans-European Road Network. It would be irresponsible for TfL or any other organisation to ignore the lessons learned from recent disasters.
The Directive calls for tunnels with high volumes of traffic to operate one way. The reasoning behind this is that with one way operation the traffic beyond an incident will clear allowing unimpeded access for rescue and emergency services should it be needed. With two way operation, traffic approaches from either direction can be expected to become blocked during an incident, with motorists attempting to escape hindering the access of emergency services and rescue operations. With high traffic flows the significance of vehicles obstructing rescue services intensifies. In the event of a fire, the toxic and poisonous fumes would be vented away from any people behind the incident, but with two way traffic the people approaching from the 'wrong' direction are at severe risk of being starved of oxygen or poisoned by gases given off from the fire.
The Mont Blanc tunnel had operated successfully for 34 years until 1999 when a major fire caused the deaths of 39 people and led to the closure of the tunnel for three years. More recently, fires in St Gotthard and Viamala tunnels have both resulted in multiple fatalities and long term closure of the tunnels.
The tidal flow system was withdrawn as the Metropolitan Police were no longer willing to operate it given rising numbers of drivers taking risks by overtaking in the tunnel and the approach roads to it. Given such driver behaviour, and the subsequent increased risk of a serious accident occurring, it would have been irresponsible to allow such a significant operational risk to continue.
TfL had determined a strategy to engage stakeholders on the decision to cease Tidal Flow operations at Blackwall Tunnel, but was unable to implement it given the view of the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) that the safety risks were too high and the system should cease on 20 April.
TfL is monitoring the impact of the cessation of tidal flow. Initial results indicate that journey times for northbound traffic through the tunnel are largely unaffected, and queues have now settled to similar proportions to those that existed before (starting somewhere between Woolwich Road and the 'Sun in the Sands'). However journey times for southbound traffic are much improved.
TfL has invited tenders for a comprehensive review of the operation of the A102, and the selected consultant will be reviewing all relevant data and making recommendations for improvements, which TfL will consider later this year.
TfL believe with careful design the small amount of capacity lost by the removal of tidal flow can be regained by ensuring that the A102 operates more smoothly and reliably in the future.
TfL has been meeting with various stakeholders, such as the London Borough of Bexley, the GLA Transport Committee, London Travelwatch and other local councillors, to discuss the reasoning behind the decision to stop the tidal flow, and will continue to offer explanations to stakeholders as required. A meeting has also been planned with London Boroughs of Greenwich, Lewisham, Tower Hamlets and Newham to review traffic flows in the whole area 3 months after cessation of tidal flow.
What a load of old bollocks
You wanna try sitting at that roundabout everyday but not want to go into the tunnel, just to the other side of the bridge, its atrocious mate. So many people just dont no how to drive, where to position themselves to go into the tunnel and where noot to position themselves. It is totally fecked up. Everyday i have to give myself an hour to get to work, its 5 miles ffs! I hate this country, its shit. FACT
another council tax addition?
As you know about the monster mosque, what can you say for definate about the extension of the castration charge?
But would reducing car traffic through a major tourist hub be a good idea, similar to as they've done in Durham be a good thing? Yes
Should they do it after the Thames Gateway Bridge is opened? Yes
Are car drivers moaners? yes
As for the mega mosque, a little bit of reading below the headlines gets the information on it
"Ken Livingstone is a "grade A, prize winning, c*nt"...and you want to murder him?
Twat."
Cheers BFR. I'll be sure to buy you a pint should I ever be forunate enough to meet you.
Rat runs here we come!
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ScrapMegaMosque/
Nope. But most consultation exercises are bollocks anyway, and Greenwich Council's especially bad at it. However, since you and I both live in Charlton, and the proposed congestion charge zone is around Greenwich and Blackheath, they'll probably have dropped the leaflet there to get the *right* result. (And they're probably hoping people in Lewisham don't notice at all.)
I'm not quite sure what shit-stirring about a mosque has to do with this thread, frankly.
Although, frankly, anyone who drives like an idiot through the tunnel should just have their car/ van crushed to prevent everyone else being incovenienced.
Reference is made to a European Directive which we have to comply with because EU laws take primacy to UK laws.
Europhiles argue that the EU and its machinations doesn't affect ordinary people hence Gordon saying no need for a referendum on the rejigged constitution.
The Blackwall Tunnel is the most recent example to give the lie to that!
Have also noticed small size boxes attached to lamp post with speed signs above, these are popping up all over the place, for anyone in the bexleyheath area top end of the high street cameras have been placed at the traffic lights.
I also believe the recent spell of wet weather is the European Union's fault...
oh dear a picture has just entered my head of ollie on a drop handlebar racer wearing lycra shorts .
However if it is the Police's role to manage the tidal flow then if people were over taking what had they not installed camera's reduced the maximum speed to say 15 mph (so head on crash is only at 30 mph). and got cameras in for that as well. It is pardon the pun a cop out to say people were driving dangerously you are the F~** polis so do something about it.
The EU directive only cover tunnels on motorways and as they have downgraded the A102(M) to A102 does not apply though it is similar to roads that do.
I think the whole thing lacks imagination from the polis from TfL, etc.
Train, yeah tight that'll happen!! ANyway there is no station near where i work, and dont forget i dont live charlton anymore, i live in beleverederederderederderede.
I love Boris. What a dude.
Although isn't one side of the tunnel soon to be closed for maintenance... for months?
"The Blackwall Tunnel northbound bore has to be closed for refurbishment to address fire safety and evacuation requirements. The closure will also enable added over-height protection and radio break-in measures to be installed. The closure will last for 21 months. The start of works has been delayed due to legal issues and further optionerring. Transport for London will keep the Forum advised of the programme at future meetings"