I don't think anyone has an issue with the furloughing per se. I certainly don't.
The issue is a moral one in that the Club is unable to pay 20% of ordinary wages yet can spunk money like it is going out of fashion on exorbitant flats, motor vehicles and dubious consultancy fees.
I think most regulars on here would not regard me as anywhere near Karl Marx politically but I think it is an obscene, insensitive decision to punish relatively low earning staff for the actions of parasites like Mouthall, Amis et al.
Personally I believe the 20% could be paid by removing a member of staff that has never justified their salary, although no one immediately springs to mind!
I work for myself through a limited company. I have furloughed because I work in the education sector. I will continue to pay myself 80% of my normal salary (£732 per month). When the government open its portal at the end of April, I will claim the amount I was paying myself as a grant. I understand that you can claim up to £2500 per employee. I assume CAFC will pay its staff 80% of gross salaries and claim some of that back through Government grant. Whichever way you cut the cake, this will cost CAFC money so I can see why they may not pay the 20% each employee is losing.
Personally I believe the 20% could be paid by removing a member of staff that has never justified their salary, although no one immediately springs to mind!
I think you may mean (although PC Tom from Eltham may correct me) that there is one individual who appears to have overused the worlds oxygen supply with his work at Charlton and probably in his whole life.
let's get real here, there are many companies furloughing staff and not toping up the wages, not pleasant for the staff on furlough but better than being made redundant which is the other option for companies with no income but still have overheads.
Or the company going bust and unpaid wages/salary just become further unsecured debt that the staff MAY get once the administrators have taken their cut, that's assuming there are any assets.
Can't see the issue with this. Wish I could be furloughed. I'm one of millions of self employed that have no cover in this situation and currently haven't worked for 4 weeks. Happy for them that they are getting paid even though it's 80%, their biggest worry is what state the club will be in once this is all over, both the pandemic and the shambles that the club is in.
I work for myself through a limited company. I have furloughed because I work in the education sector. I will continue to pay myself 80% of my normal salary (£732 per month). When the government open its portal at the end of April, I will claim the amount I was paying myself as a grant. I understand that you can claim up to £2500 per employee. I assume CAFC will pay its staff 80% of gross salaries and claim some of that back through Government grant. Whichever way you cut the cake, this will cost CAFC money so I can see why they may not pay the 20% each employee is losing.
Do you have a PAYE scheme?
If you don't you might well 'fall through the cracks' and not be able to claim from what I can glean.
Can't see the issue with this. Wish I could be furloughed. I'm one of millions of self employed that have no cover in this situation and currently haven't worked for 4 weeks. Happy for them that they are getting paid even though it's 80%, their biggest worry is what state the club will be in once this is all over, both the pandemic and the shambles that the club is in.
Although not available yet, will you be able to access the self employed grant scheme?
Can't see the issue with this. Wish I could be furloughed. I'm one of millions of self employed that have no cover in this situation and currently haven't worked for 4 weeks. Happy for them that they are getting paid even though it's 80%, their biggest worry is what state the club will be in once this is all over, both the pandemic and the shambles that the club is in.
Although not available yet, will you be able to access the self employed grant scheme?
No unfortunately due to the industry I am in I had to set myself up as a one man limited company. I realise there's a school of thought that this is a tax avoidance set-up but I would be quite happy not to have to deal with paying VAT, corporation tax, self-assessment and all the accountancy fees that go with that, but most of the large ad agencies out there wouldn't hire me as a freelancer unless I was "Limited". I can only furlough myself at 80% of my basic salary which amounts to about £575 a month but then I can't accept any work if it comes in.
As tough as it is I'm not complaining, many people out there are going through very tough and dark times and my heart goes out to them and I am overwhelmed at the bravery of the key workers in this country who for the most part are some of the lower earners in society. Thankfully I have some savings to call upon and before the lockdown I was really busy, hopefully things might start to open up in 3 weeks time even just a bit.
Anyway I hope all the staff at Charlton have a club to go back to, quite sure a few clubs will go to the wall.
Agree with others that its a sensible decision, yet people are using it to attack the club read the responses to that tweet and pretty much all of them are saying it proves TN has no money.
Does it? Or is he trying to be sensible and not lose any extra money with no revenue currently coming in.
I mean the thing that proves that TN doesn’t have any money to put in us that he hasn’t put any money in (unless I’ve missed something, disengaged with the “bonkers” thread a couple of weeks ago).
This is probably a good business move, wish we could have topped up the 20% for those impacted.
Obviously this isn't the thread to discuss this lol, but I dont get people saying this.
Why does he need to put loads of money in right this second, as long as the club has enough to survive then its ok, then we will see what money gets put in when the transfer window is open and we are able to actually spend money
Because in the transfer window since he took over the squad was weakened and ultimately fell into the relegation zone...
I work for myself through a limited company. I have furloughed because I work in the education sector. I will continue to pay myself 80% of my normal salary (£732 per month). When the government open its portal at the end of April, I will claim the amount I was paying myself as a grant. I understand that you can claim up to £2500 per employee. I assume CAFC will pay its staff 80% of gross salaries and claim some of that back through Government grant. Whichever way you cut the cake, this will cost CAFC money so I can see why they may not pay the 20% each employee is losing.
Do you have a PAYE scheme?
If you don't you might well 'fall through the cracks' and not be able to claim from what I can glean.
Agree with others that its a sensible decision, yet people are using it to attack the club read the responses to that tweet and pretty much all of them are saying it proves TN has no money.
Does it? Or is he trying to be sensible and not lose any extra money with no revenue currently coming in.
I mean the thing that proves that TN doesn’t have any money to put in us that he hasn’t put any money in (unless I’ve missed something, disengaged with the “bonkers” thread a couple of weeks ago).
This is probably a good business move, wish we could have topped up the 20% for those impacted.
Obviously this isn't the thread to discuss this lol, but I dont get people saying this.
Why does he need to put loads of money in right this second, as long as the club has enough to survive then its ok, then we will see what money gets put in when the transfer window is open and we are able to actually spend money
Because in the transfer window since he took over the squad was weakened and ultimately fell into the relegation zone...
You mean the transfer window when MS was taking money out of the club and we were under an embargo.
Yeah why didn't TN spend a fortune in that window 🤦♂️
Agree with others that its a sensible decision, yet people are using it to attack the club read the responses to that tweet and pretty much all of them are saying it proves TN has no money.
Does it? Or is he trying to be sensible and not lose any extra money with no revenue currently coming in.
I mean the thing that proves that TN doesn’t have any money to put in us that he hasn’t put any money in (unless I’ve missed something, disengaged with the “bonkers” thread a couple of weeks ago).
This is probably a good business move, wish we could have topped up the 20% for those impacted.
Obviously this isn't the thread to discuss this lol, but I dont get people saying this.
Why does he need to put loads of money in right this second, as long as the club has enough to survive then its ok, then we will see what money gets put in when the transfer window is open and we are able to actually spend money
Because in the transfer window since he took over the squad was weakened and ultimately fell into the relegation zone...
You mean the transfer window when MS was taking money out of the club and we were under an embargo.
Yeah why didn't TN spend a fortune in that window 🤦♂️
Agree with others that its a sensible decision, yet people are using it to attack the club read the responses to that tweet and pretty much all of them are saying it proves TN has no money.
Does it? Or is he trying to be sensible and not lose any extra money with no revenue currently coming in.
I mean the thing that proves that TN doesn’t have any money to put in us that he hasn’t put any money in (unless I’ve missed something, disengaged with the “bonkers” thread a couple of weeks ago).
This is probably a good business move, wish we could have topped up the 20% for those impacted.
Obviously this isn't the thread to discuss this lol, but I dont get people saying this.
Why does he need to put loads of money in right this second, as long as the club has enough to survive then its ok, then we will see what money gets put in when the transfer window is open and we are able to actually spend money
Because in the transfer window since he took over the squad was weakened and ultimately fell into the relegation zone...
You mean the transfer window when MS was taking money out of the club and we were under an embargo.
Yeah why didn't TN spend a fortune in that window 🤦♂️
Agree with others that its a sensible decision, yet people are using it to attack the club read the responses to that tweet and pretty much all of them are saying it proves TN has no money.
Does it? Or is he trying to be sensible and not lose any extra money with no revenue currently coming in.
I mean the thing that proves that TN doesn’t have any money to put in us that he hasn’t put any money in (unless I’ve missed something, disengaged with the “bonkers” thread a couple of weeks ago).
This is probably a good business move, wish we could have topped up the 20% for those impacted.
Obviously this isn't the thread to discuss this lol, but I dont get people saying this.
Why does he need to put loads of money in right this second, as long as the club has enough to survive then its ok, then we will see what money gets put in when the transfer window is open and we are able to actually spend money
Because in the transfer window since he took over the squad was weakened and ultimately fell into the relegation zone...
You mean the transfer window when MS was taking money out of the club and we were under an embargo.
Yeah why didn't TN spend a fortune in that window 🤦♂️
Ah cool, so now Southall’s been booted into touch for a few weeks I guess all the paperwork has been sent in, EFL happy with the source and sufficiency of funds and some stand up gentlemen appointed to the board to replace Southall?
My only real question would be why didn't this happen weeks ago?
Probably it is because the situation is so fluid @AFKABartram
There is no facility to actually furlough, as of yet, the website will not be open until next Monday.
With, so many companies accessing, I doubt it will work anyway.
To take this decision, this late, imo is the right business choice.
It is potentially available next week. CAFC are getting no income. The Government have offered this to sustain businesses, why is CAFC any different?
Premier league clubs can potentially hang on...However, still their choice.
As long as employees did not work in this period, CAFC can claim.
Whoever is on the payroll - Ticket office, corporate, admin, stewards, playing staff, catering ( outsourced probably - but not maybe all) etc....presumably would not have worked - and if they did, not all for the last 3 weeks.
Remember though it's only up to £2500 per month which I think is approx 31k per year so if you were on 40 or 50 then you are only going to be getting maybee 50 or 60 % of your wage but even so cant see anybody on the scheme struggling as you can get payment holidays on virtually all loans,mortgage,credit cards,council tax etc also no travel expenses (my car hasn't moved for 2 weeks saving £75 per week!) And nowhere to go out to spend any money? So I realy dont see why anyone needs the 80% topping up? It's the poor folk who's wages have been cut to zero who need the help not ones who are just losing 20% to stay at home
The furlough scheme is designed to protect jobs that would otherwise have been made redundant. Redundancy: work of that nature has diminished or ceased at that location.
Why would anyone be against any organisation using a scheme to protect jobs, rather than throw people out of work? Why is a football club different to a restaurant, pub, hairdressers et al?
We are not talking about £50k a week footballers here - these are operational staff, many of whom would not be on much more than the minimum wage.
It's a business decision and unfortunately that's what the financial side of Charlton is. I would be disgusted if like Wetherspoons and others they waited to give them wages until they had received it from the Government, I think in May.
Why would you pay the extra 20% if you don't have any money coming in and weren't obliged to? Nothing to read into this.
Because it’s the right thing to do - let’s not forget how many times they have been shit upon in the past we well.
I get the goodwill gesture but with no money coming in can any SME business afford to be charitable? The club doesn't even make a profit.
Staff can make up the extra 20% with no travel expenses, mortgage pauses, Sky & BT subscription pauses etc. Not saying it's perfect and I sympathize fully with anyone on furlough but I don't think any club outside the Premier League will make up the extra 20%, fair play if they do.
Yes, nobody wants to lose 20% of their income, but most people are currently spending far less than they normally do anyway, so it's not the hardship it could be otherwise.
There will be no national insurance and tax to pay on that unpaid 20% either, no VAT to pay on things they are now not buying, no going out and socialising, no fuel for the car, no impulse purchases unless they're recklessly buying online.
Many of us are having to be careful with our expenditure and some people will find money very tight, especially low income earners and families.
Remember, some are worse off than currently being furloughed ..... they've lost all income altogether and fall through the holes in the Governments support proposals. Who helps them?
Can't see the issue with this. Wish I could be furloughed. I'm one of millions of self employed that have no cover in this situation and currently haven't worked for 4 weeks. Happy for them that they are getting paid even though it's 80%, their biggest worry is what state the club will be in once this is all over, both the pandemic and the shambles that the club is in.
Although not available yet, will you be able to access the self employed grant scheme?
No unfortunately due to the industry I am in I had to set myself up as a one man limited company. I realise there's a school of thought that this is a tax avoidance set-up but I would be quite happy not to have to deal with paying VAT, corporation tax, self-assessment and all the accountancy fees that go with that, but most of the large ad agencies out there wouldn't hire me as a freelancer unless I was "Limited". I can only furlough myself at 80% of my basic salary which amounts to about £575 a month but then I can't accept any work if it comes in.
As tough as it is I'm not complaining, many people out there are going through very tough and dark times and my heart goes out to them and I am overwhelmed at the bravery of the key workers in this country who for the most part are some of the lower earners in society. Thankfully I have some savings to call upon and before the lockdown I was really busy, hopefully things might start to open up in 3 weeks time even just a bit.
Anyway I hope all the staff at Charlton have a club to go back to, quite sure a few clubs will go to the wall.
Yeah it’s a definitely a gap in the protections the government has developed so far.
I know it doesn’t cover the costs of lost work but similar to the mortgage payment holiday which still has to be repaid, there is the business interruption loan scheme if you have cash issues.
My understanding is that businesses with less than £45m of turnover a year can apply for a loan using their current business plans (based on historical and future plans).
if the borrowing is capable of being repaid absent COVID-19 then they should accept and the government pays the arrangement fees and the first years interest. Capital repayment holidays may be available. Loans are over 1-6 years.
Not free money but may be helpful if you get squeezed.
Comments
The issue is a moral one in that the Club is unable to pay 20% of ordinary wages yet can spunk money like it is going out of fashion on exorbitant flats, motor vehicles and dubious consultancy fees.
I think most regulars on here would not regard me as anywhere near Karl Marx politically but I think it is an obscene, insensitive decision to punish relatively low earning staff for the actions of parasites like Mouthall, Amis et al.
Just a personal opinion.
Can't see the hospitality or ticketing teams being too busy at the moment.
No one inmediately springs to mind 😂
If you don't you might well 'fall through the cracks' and not be able to claim from what I can glean.
As tough as it is I'm not complaining, many people out there are going through very tough and dark times and my heart goes out to them and I am overwhelmed at the bravery of the key workers in this country who for the most part are some of the lower earners in society. Thankfully I have some savings to call upon and before the lockdown I was really busy, hopefully things might start to open up in 3 weeks time even just a bit.
Anyway I hope all the staff at Charlton have a club to go back to, quite sure a few clubs will go to the wall.
Yeah why didn't TN spend a fortune in that window 🤦♂️
This has to be a huge whooooosh.
There is no facility to actually furlough, as of yet, the website will not be open until next Monday.
With, so many companies accessing, I doubt it will work anyway.
To take this decision, this late, imo is the right business choice.
It is potentially available next week. CAFC are getting no income. The Government have offered this to sustain businesses, why is CAFC any different?
Premier league clubs can potentially hang on...However, still their choice.
Whoever is on the payroll - Ticket office, corporate, admin, stewards, playing staff, catering ( outsourced probably - but not maybe all) etc....presumably would not have worked - and if they did, not all for the last 3 weeks.
And nowhere to go out to spend any money?
So I realy dont see why anyone needs the 80% topping up?
It's the poor folk who's wages have been cut to zero who need the help not ones who are just losing 20% to stay at home
Many of us are having to be careful with our expenditure and some people will find money very tight, especially low income earners and families.
Remember, some are worse off than currently being furloughed ..... they've lost all income altogether and fall through the holes in the Governments support proposals. Who helps them?
It can be backdated to March 1st
Only if you furloughed staff on 1st March. You can't furlough someone on say 16th April but claim from 1st March.
I know it doesn’t cover the costs of lost work but similar to the mortgage payment holiday which still has to be repaid, there is the business interruption loan scheme if you have cash issues.
if the borrowing is capable of being repaid absent COVID-19 then they should accept and the government pays the arrangement fees and the first years interest. Capital repayment holidays may be available. Loans are over 1-6 years.
Not free money but may be helpful if you get squeezed.
So if those employees haven't worked, they can be furloughed weeks down the line.
No, but if the staff sign the letter and you both agree that nobody was working from "lockdown" date, nobody can prove you were....