I'm seriously considering becoming a member, but I do have some concerns about these plans for potential fan ownership. I appreciate it is early days, but if you could go into some more detail about this it would be greatly appreciated.
My main concern is how the structure would work, and who the people in charge would actually be.
Thanks
I don’t really see how any more details could be provided at this point and, if they could, would we really want to give the strategy away before we’re ready to play our hand?
Um yes, if they are asking, or will be asking for money?
Way too early. There’ll have be quite a bit of research done, and talks with clubs like Portsmouth who have been down that route, before they can have a proper feel for how it would work.
‘The club were saved from liquidation after being bought out by the fan-owned Pompey Supporters Trust (PST). This made Portsmouth the largest fan-owned football club in England until 3 August 2017, when the PST sold it to The Tornante Company, an investment company owned by former Disney CEO Michael Eisner.’
In Argentina and Brazil almost all clubs are owned by their members on a not for profit basis.
In Germany a majority control by a single entity (person, or company) is not permitted by the German Football League. The law suggests a registered club should have minimum 7 members. The League requires that either a club, or a limited company which is controlled by a club with 50% + 1 vote can get a license to participate in the German 1st or 2nd division. There are exceptions though. In Spain the fan-owned pro teams are: Athletic Bilbao, Osasuna, Barcelona, Real Madrid.
Just sayin’ (as they say).
Your telling me this why? The German rules are great because everyone has to follow them.
Are any of these club's grounds owned by a Belgian business man who the fans have campaigned against for years? And who is asking North of £50 million for it?
Do any of these clubs require £21 million in the bank to cover less than 18 months running costs?
I don't think it's wrong to ask the question, which had already been answered, hence my appilogy post.
Yes, always good to ask questions, but I just meant it’s too early to expect any answers. Also no one would be asking for money until a clear strategy is laid out, and that’s way off. It’s a learning curve for CAST and for all of us, as no one expected there even to be a remote possibility of fan ownership cropping up potentially so soon.
I'm seriously considering becoming a member, but I do have some concerns about these plans for potential fan ownership. I appreciate it is early days, but if you could go into some more detail about this it would be greatly appreciated.
My main concern is how the structure would work, and who the people in charge would actually be.
Thanks
I don’t really see how any more details could be provided at this point and, if they could, would we really want to give the strategy away before we’re ready to play our hand?
Um yes, if they are asking, or will be asking for money?
Way too early. There’ll have be quite a bit of research done, and talks with clubs like Portsmouth who have been down that route, before they can have a proper feel for how it would work.
‘The club were saved from liquidation after being bought out by the fan-owned Pompey Supporters Trust (PST). This made Portsmouth the largest fan-owned football club in England until 3 August 2017, when the PST sold it to The Tornante Company, an investment company owned by former Disney CEO Michael Eisner.’
In Argentina and Brazil almost all clubs are owned by their members on a not for profit basis.
In Germany a majority control by a single entity (person, or company) is not permitted by the German Football League. The law suggests a registered club should have minimum 7 members. The League requires that either a club, or a limited company which is controlled by a club with 50% + 1 vote can get a license to participate in the German 1st or 2nd division. There are exceptions though. In Spain the fan-owned pro teams are: Athletic Bilbao, Osasuna, Barcelona, Real Madrid.
Just sayin’ (as they say).
Your telling me this why? The German rules are great because everyone has to follow them.
Are any of these club's grounds owned by a Belgian business man who the fans have campaigned against for years? And who is asking North of £50 million for it?
Do any of these clubs require £21 million in the bank to cover less than 18 months running costs?
I don't think it's wrong to ask the question, which had already been answered, hence my appilogy post.
Yes, always good to ask questions, but I just meant it’s too early to expect any answers. Also no one would be asking for money until a clear strategy is laid out, and that’s way off. It’s a learning curve for CAST and for all of us, as no one expected there even to be a remote possibility of fan ownership cropping up potentially so soon.
You state that no one should be asking for money until a clear strategy is laid out yet the Trust are asking people to join, which costs money, albeit £5.
If the strategy was laid out then more people may join, including myself (I know that's not much of a deal breaker btw)
Hi @RichardJ, I gave you an LOL because the vision of any current Board members of the Trust being chucked off a train by plod really is LOL material. And sadly, there are some people who actually think that this is a bad thing, and that the Trust should be more "militant".
BTW Richard Wiseman was not chair at the time. I was on the board then, and I cannot remember exactly how we decided to address that situation. However I would like to say that re the person concerned, firstly it seemed to me to be completely out of character, at least from my dealings with him -and indeed he is a CL regular, and people would never imagine from his posts that he would be as you portray. Second, and most important, he was the driver of one of the Trust's earliest successful initiatives, the result of which remains relevant in the dire situation we have today. I think that was something that we took into account at the time.
Would love that to be realistic, @Fansince1963. At the moment, Roland's asking price is £50M for the freehold assets. So at £500 a pop, we'd need 100,000 contributors.
Hi @RichardJ, I gave you an LOL because the vision of any current Board members of the Trust being chucked off a train by plod really is LOL material. And sadly, there are some people who actually think that this is a bad thing, and that the Trust should be more "militant".
BTW Richard Wiseman was not chair at the time. I was on the board then, and I cannot remember exactly how we decided to address that situation. However I would like to say that re the person concerned, firstly it seemed to me to be completely out of character, at least from my dealings with him -and indeed he is a CL regular, and people would never imagine from his posts that he would be as you portray. Second, and most important, he was the driver of one of the Trust's earliest successful initiatives, the result of which remains relevant in the dire situation we have today. I think that was something that we took into account at the time.
The board member was chucked off the train for fighting and the train had to make an unscheduled stop. I dont think that is a LOL moment.
I'm seriously considering becoming a member, but I do have some concerns about these plans for potential fan ownership. I appreciate it is early days, but if you could go into some more detail about this it would be greatly appreciated.
My main concern is how the structure would work, and who the people in charge would actually be.
Thanks
I don’t really see how any more details could be provided at this point and, if they could, would we really want to give the strategy away before we’re ready to play our hand?
Um yes, if they are asking, or will be asking for money?
Way too early. There’ll have be quite a bit of research done, and talks with clubs like Portsmouth who have been down that route, before they can have a proper feel for how it would work.
‘The club were saved from liquidation after being bought out by the fan-owned Pompey Supporters Trust (PST). This made Portsmouth the largest fan-owned football club in England until 3 August 2017, when the PST sold it to The Tornante Company, an investment company owned by former Disney CEO Michael Eisner.’
In Argentina and Brazil almost all clubs are owned by their members on a not for profit basis.
In Germany a majority control by a single entity (person, or company) is not permitted by the German Football League. The law suggests a registered club should have minimum 7 members. The League requires that either a club, or a limited company which is controlled by a club with 50% + 1 vote can get a license to participate in the German 1st or 2nd division. There are exceptions though. In Spain the fan-owned pro teams are: Athletic Bilbao, Osasuna, Barcelona, Real Madrid.
Just sayin’ (as they say).
Your telling me this why? The German rules are great because everyone has to follow them.
Are any of these club's grounds owned by a Belgian business man who the fans have campaigned against for years? And who is asking North of £50 million for it?
Do any of these clubs require £21 million in the bank to cover less than 18 months running costs?
I don't think it's wrong to ask the question, which had already been answered, hence my appilogy post.
Yes, always good to ask questions, but I just meant it’s too early to expect any answers. Also no one would be asking for money until a clear strategy is laid out, and that’s way off. It’s a learning curve for CAST and for all of us, as no one expected there even to be a remote possibility of fan ownership cropping up potentially so soon.
You state that no one should be asking for money until a clear strategy is laid out yet the Trust are asking people to join, which costs money, albeit £5.
If the strategy was laid out then more people may join, including myself (I know that's not much of a deal breaker btw)
Sorry, I got the wrong end of the stick. I assumed you were talking about fans ownership. Apologies.
Btw for your fiver you get a couple of mags a year and a group of hard working, intelligent people working their butts off for you, particularly when there’s a crisis on. Oh, and they have to pay insurance premiums as a Trust.
Cheap at twice the price.
Oh, and if there is a fans‘ initiative to partly buy the club, then it’ll be the Trust that’ll be behind it.
Hi @RichardJ, I gave you an LOL because the vision of any current Board members of the Trust being chucked off a train by plod really is LOL material. And sadly, there are some people who actually think that this is a bad thing, and that the Trust should be more "militant".
BTW Richard Wiseman was not chair at the time. I was on the board then, and I cannot remember exactly how we decided to address that situation. However I would like to say that re the person concerned, firstly it seemed to me to be completely out of character, at least from my dealings with him -and indeed he is a CL regular, and people would never imagine from his posts that he would be as you portray. Second, and most important, he was the driver of one of the Trust's earliest successful initiatives, the result of which remains relevant in the dire situation we have today. I think that was something that we took into account at the time.
I know what I witnessed. It was also Richard Wiseman who dealt with my complaint
My disappointment is that the Trust didn’t seem to take this matter seriously. I had to accompany a twelve year old boy home because his father had a fight with an Executive Committee member and was thrown off a train Whatever project was being undertaken clearly was more important.
I only raise this now to explain why I dropped out of membership.
Would love that to be realistic, @Fansince1963. At the moment, Roland's asking price is £50M for the freehold assets. So at £500 a pop, we'd need 100,000 contributors.
Of course, these things can change.
Just buy the ground for £15 million only
Everyone put in £1500 , would only need 10,000 fans which is achiveable
We can always rent a sports field for training.
Due to Conorvirus there will be a slump in property prices, so Roland must Lump it.
Hi @RichardJ, I gave you an LOL because the vision of any current Board members of the Trust being chucked off a train by plod really is LOL material. And sadly, there are some people who actually think that this is a bad thing, and that the Trust should be more "militant".
BTW Richard Wiseman was not chair at the time. I was on the board then, and I cannot remember exactly how we decided to address that situation. However I would like to say that re the person concerned, firstly it seemed to me to be completely out of character, at least from my dealings with him -and indeed he is a CL regular, and people would never imagine from his posts that he would be as you portray. Second, and most important, he was the driver of one of the Trust's earliest successful initiatives, the result of which remains relevant in the dire situation we have today. I think that was something that we took into account at the time.
I know what I witnessed. It was also Richard Wiseman who dealt with my complaint
My disappointment is that the Trust didn’t seem to take this matter seriously. I had to accompany a twelve year old boy home because his father had a fight with an Executive Committee member and was thrown off a train Whatever project was being undertaken clearly was more important.
I only raise this now to explain why I dropped out of membership.
Thats fair enough and good to hear feedback. The majority of the current board weren't around then (at the Trust) and i'm personally not aware of what went on either on the train or how it was dealt with (or even who it was!) - but i'm really pleased you've felt you could rejoin and you are right about diversity, would also be nice to get some younger members standing when there's a vacancy.
I honestly don't see any of the current board members popping a bag of crisps let alone any 'argie bargie' and most are getting too old to take the train these days
Hi @RichardJ, I gave you an LOL because the vision of any current Board members of the Trust being chucked off a train by plod really is LOL material. And sadly, there are some people who actually think that this is a bad thing, and that the Trust should be more "militant".
BTW Richard Wiseman was not chair at the time. I was on the board then, and I cannot remember exactly how we decided to address that situation. However I would like to say that re the person concerned, firstly it seemed to me to be completely out of character, at least from my dealings with him -and indeed he is a CL regular, and people would never imagine from his posts that he would be as you portray. Second, and most important, he was the driver of one of the Trust's earliest successful initiatives, the result of which remains relevant in the dire situation we have today. I think that was something that we took into account at the time.
I know what I witnessed. It was also Richard Wiseman who dealt with my complaint
My disappointment is that the Trust didn’t seem to take this matter seriously. I had to accompany a twelve year old boy home because his father had a fight with an Executive Committee member and was thrown off a train Whatever project was being undertaken clearly was more important.
I only raise this now to explain why I dropped out of membership.
Thats fair enough and good to hear feedback. The majority of the current board weren't around then (at the Trust) and i'm personally not aware of what went on either on the train or how it was dealt with (or even who it was!) - but i'm really pleased you've felt you could rejoin and you are right about diversity, would also be nice to get some younger members standing when there's a vacancy.
I honestly don't see any of the current board members popping a bag of crisps let alone any 'argie bargie' and most are getting too old to take the train these days
Can you explain the difference between an executive committee member and a committee member? When I was on the board, many moons ago there were only maybe six or seven board members and I don't recall any of them being 'executives'. I'm not digging you out, I'm just interested to know how things have changed.
Wish the fan ownership model could happen at Charlton. Can’t think of a better support base to take this forward.
48% investors 52% fans is it?
Early days to be talking percentages, but from memory Portsmouth Trust owned 48% which was made up of 1,000's of fans contributions of various amounts. The remaining 52% was still 'fan' owned I believe but by a number of wealthy fans (15 or so) who put in considerable sums each. Each side raised around £3m.
For every day fans, how much are we talking to take ownership and how much do said fans have to contribute each year, bearing in mind most clubs in EFL lose around £5m+ a year.
My own personal opinion;
Seems £1 is the going rate to buy a club if not a negative amount.
Running costs though, In reality, in League 1 & League 2 with a decent sized regular support it's more than possible to be competitive and not lose much money (Pompey when fan owned weren't running at a loss I don't believe).
The championship is a different matter. RD had cut running costs to the bone and we know we pretty much had a bottom 3 budget yet were still losing 200k a month I believe if not a bit more, so on the assumption you don't make a profit on player sales thats your starting point.
Of course though, as we know, revenue was down BECAUSE OF RD's ownership and on that sort of budget you're unlikely to stay in the Championship for long.
Nobody is saying fan ownership is the route to the big time, nor that it is necessarily the right thing for CAFC right now. But we need to be prepared to step in IF that is what is required and is the best thing for the club.
Would rather be in League One, sustainable and fan owned than another absolute charlatan/nutcase comes in and does something awful with our club (again).
I would rather be fan run AFC Charlton in the eighth tier of English football than be run by another chancer in the Championship.
I understand the sentiment in this post but surely that would mean that we will have left The Valley. On that basis I prefer the other option.
I know we have the local MP on board, but would it be good to have the Council taking a firm supportive stance. For instance making a statement about not accepting a change of use for the ground and training ground. (Could they do this)? This would hopefully be useful in any negotiations with Roland and also put off any potential buyers who have a redevelopment plan up their sleeve.
Would love that to be realistic, @Fansince1963. At the moment, Roland's asking price is £50M for the freehold assets. So at £500 a pop, we'd need 100,000 contributors.
Of course, these things can change.
Just buy the ground for £15 million only
Everyone put in £1500 , would only need 10,000 fans which is achiveable
We can always rent a sports field for training.
Due to Conorvirus there will be a slump in property prices, so Roland must Lump it.
Fully in support of the principle @Fansince1963 but, playing devils advocate, why would Roland want to sell when he is collecting a healthy rent via his (Staprix's) lease? If the Club defaults he can evict it and sit on the land until prices improve.
We 'enjoyed the moment' sadly it was just a moment.
Comments
You state that no one should be asking for money until a clear strategy is laid out yet the Trust are asking people to join, which costs money, albeit £5.
If the strategy was laid out then more people may join, including myself (I know that's not much of a deal breaker btw)
BTW Richard Wiseman was not chair at the time. I was on the board then, and I cannot remember exactly how we decided to address that situation. However I would like to say that re the person concerned, firstly it seemed to me to be completely out of character, at least from my dealings with him -and indeed he is a CL regular, and people would never imagine from his posts that he would be as you portray. Second, and most important, he was the driver of one of the Trust's earliest successful initiatives, the result of which remains relevant in the dire situation we have today. I think that was something that we took into account at the time.
If the fans could gang together and buy the FREEHOLD from Roland.
This would be Fans only business arrangement.
No partnership with other parties, individuals, Shell companies and conmen.
I did put in money when I put £500 years ago , I did lose money then. ( Thank You Richard Murry )
Genuine Fans Only.
This would guarantee football at the Valley for ever, we could rebuild the club from there.
Great Idea for the fans to come together
Any takers
Of course, these things can change.
My disappointment is that the Trust didn’t seem to take this matter seriously. I had to accompany a twelve year old boy home because his father had a fight with an Executive Committee member and was thrown off a train Whatever project was being undertaken clearly was more important.
I only raise this now to explain why I dropped out of membership.
Thats fair enough and good to hear feedback. The majority of the current board weren't around then (at the Trust) and i'm personally not aware of what went on either on the train or how it was dealt with (or even who it was!) - but i'm really pleased you've felt you could rejoin and you are right about diversity, would also be nice to get some younger members standing when there's a vacancy.
I honestly don't see any of the current board members popping a bag of crisps let alone any 'argie bargie' and most are getting too old to take the train these days
We 'enjoyed the moment' sadly it was just a moment.