The issue I see with this new Kidbrooke Village is that in ten/fifteen years time it will just turn into a Ferrier Mark II.
Ferrier was seen as a shining example of modern methods of construction, sustainability (a World's first communal CHP for heating and hot water) a close knit community atmosphere and a complete opposite to the pre war damp and cold slums London had to offer.
It's an interesting debate. We have been having this same debate amongst ourselves for a while. We had previously been looking to buy a flat somewhere like Burgess park/ Walworth or on the edge of stockwell. Much closer to friends, could bus/walk to work etc etc. A few things have changed our mind. Firstly being in a small 1 bed flat with no garden during lockdown has made us value space so much more. Also the fact that under the 'new normal'neither of us are likely to need to be in the office more than 2/3 times a week and wfh will become the norm. Making a longer commute and higher commute costs more palatable. That's why we've ended up looking where we are.
It really brings it home the struggle to get a home House /flat when the prices are so awful.
My house is a pretty ordinary brick built 1910 3-bed detached with garage and pretty big garden. Quiet back street 1 mile from station, 2 miles from M1. Bought in 2007. £90k, current value £100k. No significant profit, but I've not had to pay rent for all those years and can do what I want with it. Not seen as a good area, but there is very little crime and neighbours are great.
When my dad bought his Sheffield house in 1976 it cost about 10% more than his house in Welling. Basically 3-bed semi swap. £12,500 or there about. Now Sheffield house would be worth around £275,000, no idea on a Welling semi (Budleigh Crescent).
London prices are so depressing for anyone starting out. A friend's daughter just bought a flat in a house in Deptford for £320k as a starter home. WTF. Soon nobody starting out on the ladder will be able to buy anything in the South East. It is a real problem. Especially for NHS staff, teachers, police, normal folks incomes.
You need to see see past the headline number, I don't think it's that much different in buying your first place in London now compared to years gone by. It's always had it's difficulties whether thats interest rates in double digits, the need to save with a building society for a number of years before they'd allow you a mortgage, having to move into mid kent etc etc as my parents did (after renting a room with an aunt to save a deposit).
I think the harder part now for buyers is the deposit, so make the most of LISA's etc but it can be done.
London is very different to the vast majority of the country. My sister has a beautiful place in a nice part of Nottingham, down here would be £2m easy, she paid something like £360k in about 2006, probably barely worth £420k now and suspect she's spent more than £60k on it. London/SE see's the lions share of the capital gain, and also falls of course when they happen.
Strange you mention Nottingham, as it's where I got onto the property ladder in the late 80s. A new build 1 bed flat for £19,500 close to the City centre, with a 100% mortgage! To AFKA's point, I soon experienced the pain of a 15% interest rate. After selling up 12 years later, I think I ended up with £5,000 profit after my wonderful endowment policy failed to pay off the full mortgage, but this formed a vital piece of our deposit on a 3 bed semi in a new estate just outside Blackheath, which cost £155k in 1995. When we returned to London from our European travels in 2014, we looked at Blackheath again but had been priced out in the meantime (the local estate agents blamed overseas buyers, especially Russians, who had suddenly discovered the delights of SE London). We found we could get literally double the size of property for the same price just three miles further out, so did that instead.
Anyway, @cantersaddick, the new Kidbrooke development reminds me a bit of the Blackheath/Lewisham borders estate we moved into in the mid-90s. It was probably the best financial decision we ever made (though the bar is set quite low on that).
BUT the biggest selling point of all is that you'd be within staggering distance of one of the most sociable cricket clubs on the planet where your cricketing comeback could only flourish under the captaincy of @PaddyP17 or yours truly. You know it makes sense.
I feel like people have been saying for years that soon no one will be able to buy anything in the South East. but they still seem to be, even though prices have gone up so much. Our first flat in Lee was a 1 bed and was 180k. That was a massive stretch for us on our 2 ok salaries. We couldn't have afforded Deptford or the other areas nearer to London we were originally wanting to move to. When it came to selling that and buying a house, we had to move further out in order to afford a small 3 bed terrace house. People are finding the money from somewhere which means the prices continue to rise.
I feel like people have been saying for years that soon no one will be able to buy anything in the South East. but they still seem to be, even though prices have gone up so much. Our first flat in Lee was a 1 bed and was 180k. That was a massive stretch for us on our 2 ok salaries. We couldn't have afforded Deptford or the other areas nearer to London we were originally wanting to move to. When it came to selling that and buying a house, we had to move further out in order to afford a small 3 bed terrace house. People are finding the money from somewhere which means the prices continue to rise.
Inheritance is the word.
Or parents with money/equity. I've done a few remortgages to release equity for kids deposits.
One very kind client used part of their inheritance/savings to buy outright a flat for each if their daughters......in Greenwich. I think they were around £400k each.
I live in SE12, but Kidbrooke is my closest station. The Blackheath Quarter area is nice, loads of green space, plus both Cator and Sutcliffe Parks are on the doorstep. A new kids park opened up on the western side of Kidbrooke Park Road, which pretty much opposite the Depot.
Also a new bus, the 335 started running from Weigall road last year, goes through the Standard and up the o2.
I like it, its a vast improvement on what was there before. I personally think they could still do with extra transport links.
In this so called "Blackheath Quarter" is there a chippy ? A corner shop? A Costa ? cashhpoint? Dare I say a GP surgery ?
Doctor's surgery was/is only on the station side. My mother who was late 80s and only got around in a wheelchair was refused a visit by the doctor in her supported housing. In trying to get across the road, she ended up out of her wheelchair in the main road.
This resulted in a stroke and eventually to her death in 2016. I have no affection for this rebuilt estate on any level.
I feel like people have been saying for years that soon no one will be able to buy anything in the South East. but they still seem to be, even though prices have gone up so much. Our first flat in Lee was a 1 bed and was 180k. That was a massive stretch for us on our 2 ok salaries. We couldn't have afforded Deptford or the other areas nearer to London we were originally wanting to move to. When it came to selling that and buying a house, we had to move further out in order to afford a small 3 bed terrace house. People are finding the money from somewhere which means the prices continue to rise.
Inheritance is the word.
Or parents with money/equity. I've done a few remortgages to release equity for kids deposits.
One very kind client used part of their inheritance/savings to buy outright a flat for each if their daughters......in Greenwich. I think they were around £400k each.
I feel like people have been saying for years that soon no one will be able to buy anything in the South East. but they still seem to be, even though prices have gone up so much. Our first flat in Lee was a 1 bed and was 180k. That was a massive stretch for us on our 2 ok salaries. We couldn't have afforded Deptford or the other areas nearer to London we were originally wanting to move to. When it came to selling that and buying a house, we had to move further out in order to afford a small 3 bed terrace house. People are finding the money from somewhere which means the prices continue to rise.
Inheritance is the word.
Or parents with money/equity. I've done a few remortgages to release equity for kids deposits.
One very kind client used part of their inheritance/savings to buy outright a flat for each if their daughters......in Greenwich. I think they were around £400k each.
We are very lucky that both sets of parents are giving us a small amount to help with the deposit but it's not much, less than 10% of our deposit amount. We still managed to save enough for a deposit in 5 year by living in small cheap places even though we could afford much more and just being careful. The key for me really is that you have to have 2 salaries both to be able to save the deposit and to pay the mortgage.
The idea that my parents brought their first house (in bexley village) similar size to what we are looking at for 60k and with just my Dad working is madness.
I live in SE12, but Kidbrooke is my closest station. The Blackheath Quarter area is nice, loads of green space, plus both Cator and Sutcliffe Parks are on the doorstep. A new kids park opened up on the western side of Kidbrooke Park Road, which pretty much opposite the Depot.
Also a new bus, the 335 started running from Weigall road last year, goes through the Standard and up the o2.
I like it, its a vast improvement on what was there before. I personally think they could still do with extra transport links.
In this so called "Blackheath Quarter" is there a chippy ? A corner shop? A Costa ? cashhpoint? Dare I say a GP surgery ?
I live in SE12, but Kidbrooke is my closest station. The Blackheath Quarter area is nice, loads of green space, plus both Cator and Sutcliffe Parks are on the doorstep. A new kids park opened up on the western side of Kidbrooke Park Road, which pretty much opposite the Depot.
Also a new bus, the 335 started running from Weigall road last year, goes through the Standard and up the o2.
I like it, its a vast improvement on what was there before. I personally think they could still do with extra transport links.
In this so called "Blackheath Quarter" is there a chippy ? A corner shop? A Costa ? cashhpoint? Dare I say a GP surgery ?
What is your point?
My point being that if you buy a property in an established town or village then you normally have amenities on your doorstep. I could never live anywhere so soulless as in the pictures put up previously of "Blackheath Quarter". Just boxes & boxes of concrete.
Also, building developers should consider the current infrastructure. Don't build thousands & thousands of houses without considering the impact it has on the wider community. One of the reasons why the s/e is in a mess re NHS & schools is that no new ones have been built yet there has been in influx of over a million of people over the past 20 years. New GP surgeries & schools are needed alongside these new developments.
I live in SE12, but Kidbrooke is my closest station. The Blackheath Quarter area is nice, loads of green space, plus both Cator and Sutcliffe Parks are on the doorstep. A new kids park opened up on the western side of Kidbrooke Park Road, which pretty much opposite the Depot.
Also a new bus, the 335 started running from Weigall road last year, goes through the Standard and up the o2.
I like it, its a vast improvement on what was there before. I personally think they could still do with extra transport links.
In this so called "Blackheath Quarter" is there a chippy ? A corner shop? A Costa ? cashhpoint? Dare I say a GP surgery ?
What is your point?
My point being that if you buy a property in an established town or village then you normally have amenities on your doorstep. I could never live anywhere so soulless as in the pictures put up previously of "Blackheath Quarter". Just boxes & boxes of concrete.
Also, building developers should consider the current infrastructure. Don't build thousands & thousands of houses without considering the impact it has on the wider community. One of the reasons why the s/e is in a mess re NHS & schools is that no new ones have been built yet there has been in influx of over a million of people over the past 20 years. New GP surgeries & schools are needed alongside these new developments.
As has already been stated they did build a GP surgery. Along with a new sainsburys, a news agents, a couple of cafes, a pub, a dentist, a chemist and a few childrens playgrounds.
They also paid towards the complete revdevelopment of Wingfield school which completed last year and Thomas Tallis was also redeveloped a few years ago.
I don't know why you're writing it off as soulless when you've clearly never been there.
The gf and I have been planning to buy somewhere (first time buyers) for a while. We are still a little way away from being able to yet but hope to get there in a couple of months (gf has just got a promotion but will be 2 months before she starts that and we need that salary to get an agreement in principle) so have been stepping up our research so we are able to take advantage if the market falls.
We've ended up looking at Kidbrooke for a number of reasons:
Seems to be reasonable Value for money in terms of what you can buy within half a mile of the station compared to a lot of other places we have looked at.
Top of the A2 so easy to drive back to see both our families based in medway.
Easy commute for my gf to London bridge.
Commute not too bad for me into Victoria (although it is the dreaded South Eastern and through the notoriously shit Lewisham junction).
My brother is in Eltham.
Proximity to The Valley
Bus back from North Greenwich if we miss the last train home.
Any insights to the area or challenges to what I said above are greatly appreciated.
Lot of people forgot we are now at rock bottom mortgage level, which has made higher priced properties more affordable. If in the next 10 years base rates returned to their traditional 5% level I really fear for the impact of just how many people will lose their homes with no accompanying savings base.
Having been at low levels for ten years now, I really don’t think many people factor in ‘what if’ caution into their planning anymore.
True, chances of interest rates rising substantially over next ten years is close to zero given the economic shock we are about to suffer but if possible, people should plan for that happening.
I live in SE12, but Kidbrooke is my closest station. The Blackheath Quarter area is nice, loads of green space, plus both Cator and Sutcliffe Parks are on the doorstep. A new kids park opened up on the western side of Kidbrooke Park Road, which pretty much opposite the Depot.
Also a new bus, the 335 started running from Weigall road last year, goes through the Standard and up the o2.
I like it, its a vast improvement on what was there before. I personally think they could still do with extra transport links.
In this so called "Blackheath Quarter" is there a chippy ? A corner shop? A Costa ? cashhpoint? Dare I say a GP surgery ?
What is your point?
My point being that if you buy a property in an established town or village then you normally have amenities on your doorstep. I could never live anywhere so soulless as in the pictures put up previously of "Blackheath Quarter". Just boxes & boxes of concrete.
Also, building developers should consider the current infrastructure. Don't build thousands & thousands of houses without considering the impact it has on the wider community. One of the reasons why the s/e is in a mess re NHS & schools is that no new ones have been built yet there has been in influx of over a million of people over the past 20 years. New GP surgeries & schools are needed alongside these new developments.
As has already been stated they did build a GP surgery. Along with a new sainsburys, a news agents, a couple of cafes, a pub, a dentist, a chemist and a few childrens playgrounds.
They also paid towards the complete revdevelopment of Wingfield school which completed last year and Thomas Tallis was also redeveloped a few years ago.
I don't know why you're writing it off as soulless when you've clearly never been there.
I live in SE12, but Kidbrooke is my closest station. The Blackheath Quarter area is nice, loads of green space, plus both Cator and Sutcliffe Parks are on the doorstep. A new kids park opened up on the western side of Kidbrooke Park Road, which pretty much opposite the Depot.
Also a new bus, the 335 started running from Weigall road last year, goes through the Standard and up the o2.
I like it, its a vast improvement on what was there before. I personally think they could still do with extra transport links.
In this so called "Blackheath Quarter" is there a chippy ? A corner shop? A Costa ? cashhpoint? Dare I say a GP surgery ?
What is your point?
My point being that if you buy a property in an established town or village then you normally have amenities on your doorstep. I could never live anywhere so soulless as in the pictures put up previously of "Blackheath Quarter". Just boxes & boxes of concrete.
Also, building developers should consider the current infrastructure. Don't build thousands & thousands of houses without considering the impact it has on the wider community. One of the reasons why the s/e is in a mess re NHS & schools is that no new ones have been built yet there has been in influx of over a million of people over the past 20 years. New GP surgeries & schools are needed alongside these new developments.
Your post sugests that you are a gumpy, jaded man who likes a moan. You clearly haven't done your research, it has both a school and a GP. I would recommend having a walk around the Blackheath Quarter, it is a lot nicer than the previous incarnation. This isn't a new build, nor are these unaffordable flats and houses built on the green belt.
If you really want to have a moan about something, can I suggest gready c***s who buy to let.
I live in SE12, but Kidbrooke is my closest station. The Blackheath Quarter area is nice, loads of green space, plus both Cator and Sutcliffe Parks are on the doorstep. A new kids park opened up on the western side of Kidbrooke Park Road, which pretty much opposite the Depot.
Also a new bus, the 335 started running from Weigall road last year, goes through the Standard and up the o2.
I like it, its a vast improvement on what was there before. I personally think they could still do with extra transport links.
In this so called "Blackheath Quarter" is there a chippy ? A corner shop? A Costa ? cashhpoint? Dare I say a GP surgery ?
What is your point?
My point being that if you buy a property in an established town or village then you normally have amenities on your doorstep. I could never live anywhere so soulless as in the pictures put up previously of "Blackheath Quarter". Just boxes & boxes of concrete.
Also, building developers should consider the current infrastructure. Don't build thousands & thousands of houses without considering the impact it has on the wider community. One of the reasons why the s/e is in a mess re NHS & schools is that no new ones have been built yet there has been in influx of over a million of people over the past 20 years. New GP surgeries & schools are needed alongside these new developments.
Your post sugests that you are a gumpy, jaded man who likes a moan. You clearly haven't done your research, it has both a school and a GP. I would recommend having a walk around the Blackheath Quarter, it is a lot nicer than the previous incarnation. This isn't a new build, nor are these unaffordable flats and houses built on the green belt.
If you really want to have a moan about something, can I suggest gready c***s who buy to let.
Why do you think someone is greedy if they buy a house to rent out to someone. The person renting could buy a house themselves if they wanted or could do. If they couldnt buy it themselves then they need to rent......so by the law of deduction someone has to own it. Or do you think all rented properties should be council or housing association owned ?
I agree that btl is not a good investment move. Very tax inefficient & would be the last thing I advise a client to invest in. A lot of btl owners didnt go out to btl. Many bought as a residential property & then rented out due to a change in circumstances (moving in with a partner, job move, divorce, etc).
"An 18-year-old man has been charged with the murders of two sisters in a north-west London park.
Danyal Hussein is accused of killing sisters Nicole Smallman, 27, and Bibaa Henry, 46, in Fryent Country Park in Wembley in the early hours of Saturday June 6.
The women were found stabbed to death on Sunday June 7 after officers were called shortly after 1pm.
Hussein, of Guy Barnett Grove, Blackheath, south-east London, will appear at Westminster Magistrates’ Court on Thursday, charged with two counts of murder and a further count of possession of an offensive weapon."
Guy Barnett Grove isn't part of Kidbrooke Village and isn't even accessible from Kidbrooke.
"An 18-year-old man has been charged with the murders of two sisters in a north-west London park.
Danyal Hussein is accused of killing sisters Nicole Smallman, 27, and Bibaa Henry, 46, in Fryent Country Park in Wembley in the early hours of Saturday June 6.
The women were found stabbed to death on Sunday June 7 after officers were called shortly after 1pm.
Hussein, of Guy Barnett Grove, Blackheath, south-east London, will appear at Westminster Magistrates’ Court on Thursday, charged with two counts of murder and a further count of possession of an offensive weapon."
Guy Barnett Grove isn't part of Kidbrooke Village and isn't even accessible from Kidbrooke.
As the thread has been bumped anyway I might as well update. We've had an offer almost (its probate so takes time to go back and forward but estate agent was pretty certain they would accept this one) accepted on a house between kidbrooke and eltham. Roughly 15 min walk to either station. Nice road nice area etc. Very excited.
Just out of interest, where did Greenwich council rehouse the former residents of the Ferrier ? Must have been thousands living there.
Belmarsh!
A lot of them went to the Coldharbour Estate.
Not sure what Greenwich Council's policy is now but back in the day they took the view that moving 'problem' families from a sink estate to a better estate would improve their behaviour by some kind of peer pressure or good example. It didn't work!
I moved into the Glyndon Estate in 1963 as it was just being built. From then until the mid-70's it was a great place to live - Ann Street (where I lived), Robert Street and Villas Road all good. At the time Barnfield Gardens had a sink estate reputation and so the council decided to move residents there to other 'better' estates and by the time I moved from Ann Street in around 76/77 the place wasn't recognisable to when I first moved in. Not sure what it's like now, haven't been anywhere near there for 35 years!
Just out of interest, where did Greenwich council rehouse the former residents of the Ferrier ? Must have been thousands living there.
Belmarsh!
A lot of them went to the Coldharbour Estate.
Not sure what Greenwich Council's policy is now but back in the day they took the view that moving 'problem' families from a sink estate to a better estate would improve their behaviour by some kind of peer pressure or good example. It didn't work!
I moved into the Glyndon Estate in 1963 as it was just being built. From then until the mid-70's it was a great place to live - Ann Street (where I lived), Robert Street and Villas Road all good. At the time Barnfield Gardens had a sink estate reputation and so the council decided to move residents there to other 'better' estates and by the time I moved from Ann Street in around 76/77 the place wasn't recognisable to when I first moved in. Not sure what it's like now, haven't been anywhere near there for 35 years!
I know a couple of people on the Coldharbour and I've been told the top half is pretty grim now. Shame as it was a nice place to live a few years back.
As the thread has been bumped anyway I might as well update. We've had an offer almost (its probate so takes time to go back and forward but estate agent was pretty certain they would accept this one) accepted on a house between kidbrooke and eltham. Roughly 15 min walk to either station. Nice road nice area etc. Very excited.
Good luck Canters, hope you both will be very happy
Comments
Ferrier was seen as a shining example of modern methods of construction, sustainability (a World's first communal CHP for heating and hot water) a close knit community atmosphere and a complete opposite to the pre war damp and cold slums London had to offer.
Inheritance is the word.
One very kind client used part of their inheritance/savings to buy outright a flat for each if their daughters......in Greenwich. I think they were around £400k each.
This resulted in a stroke and eventually to her death in 2016. I have no affection for this rebuilt estate on any level.
The idea that my parents brought their first house (in bexley village) similar size to what we are looking at for 60k and with just my Dad working is madness.
What is your point?
Also, building developers should consider the current infrastructure. Don't build thousands & thousands of houses without considering the impact it has on the wider community. One of the reasons why the s/e is in a mess re NHS & schools is that no new ones have been built yet there has been in influx of over a million of people over the past 20 years. New GP surgeries & schools are needed alongside these new developments.
They also paid towards the complete revdevelopment of Wingfield school which completed last year and Thomas Tallis was also redeveloped a few years ago.
I don't know why you're writing it off as soulless when you've clearly never been there.
Bit bored to be honest.
Used to be Shi.....
Your post sugests that you are a gumpy, jaded man who likes a moan. You clearly haven't done your research, it has both a school and a GP.
I would recommend having a walk around the Blackheath Quarter, it is a lot nicer than the previous incarnation. This isn't a new build, nor are these unaffordable flats and houses built on the green belt.
If you really want to have a moan about something, can I suggest gready c***s who buy to let.
I agree that btl is not a good investment move. Very tax inefficient & would be the last thing I advise a client to invest in. A lot of btl owners didnt go out to btl. Many bought as a residential property & then rented out due to a change in circumstances (moving in with a partner, job move, divorce, etc).
Post deleted as what I said was wrong.
You can see that from a map: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Guy+Barnett+Grove,+London/@51.4615988,0.0195102,17.44z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d8a9c63d4e8eb1:0x4a8a3ca1097656bc!8m2!3d51.4616735!4d0.0190363
The flats round there are part of the cator estate
Good luck Canters, hope you both will be very happy