What would those clubs gain by postponing Wednesday fixtures? Can't see the logic in that. Each of those teams should be trying to win their respective matches irrespective of off-field matters.
I assume so you know what your playing for and everyone starts on an even footing?
So reading that statement it seems Wigan penalised now, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday penalised next season to all intents and purposes. If a relegated team wants to take legal action it can, but will still be relegated until the legal action decided. Knowing how slowly the law grinds that could be a year from now, after the team has played out 20/21 in league 1.
What would those clubs gain by postponing Wednesday fixtures? Can't see the logic in that. Each of those teams should be trying to win their respective matches irrespective of off-field matters.
I assume so you know what your playing for and everyone starts on an even footing?
Thing is, for sheff weds at least, they gave up their chance of having an even footing when they opted to cheat. If they were to know the extent of the intended punishment before their game with Middlesbrough then play the game to their best advantage, then the impact of the punishment would be negated. There's probably a better way of putting that but I'd call that a kind of paradox.
The stadium issue was first queried by the EFL in November 2019, so it's baffling why over a year and a half later it hasn't been resolved and any punishment awarded.
“relegation will be confirmed for the Clubs in 22nd, 23rd and 24th positions in the Championship table following the conclusion of those matches and will be subject to the resolution of any ongoing proceedings.“
I don't think this statement is saying points deductions will be delayed a season. For me, the message is saying that the relegation positions as of Wednesday night ultimately could be affected by the resolution of any ongoing proceedings. So Wigan's appeal could be successful and change the outcome and Sheffield Wednesday could have or may not have a points deduction which could change the outcome if the former.
The statement would read 'and will NOT be subject' if the punishments are going to be delayed a season wouldn't it?
So I read that as the relegation places could be altered until the ongoing proceedings are over.
Yes, that how I read it.
We might get relegated on Wednesday but reprieved by Sheff Wed having 21 points deducted sometime in August.
And who is it that keeps talking about the "integrity of the competition".
The stadium issue was first queried by the EFL in November 2019, so it's baffling why over a year and a half later it hasn't been resolved and any punishment awarded.
A year and a half?
Shit. I've been in lockdown a lot longer than I thought.
I have just been told and I have no idea how true it is but.....
8 parties, including representatives of "groups close to" Wigan, Sheffield Wednesday and Derby (I assume some sort of stake holders, not the owners, but that's me guessing) have applied for an injunction to postpone Wednesday's games until the EFL sort it.
If, admittedly a big if, it's true that's peek 2020 stuff.
At least it would bring the issue to a head.
Pressure on the EFL to act decisively and immediately would be enormous. And perhaps start a process of their subsequent reform and regulation.
I have just been told and I have no idea how true it is but.....
8 parties, including representatives of "groups close to" Wigan, Sheffield Wednesday and Derby (I assume some sort of stake holders, not the owners, but that's me guessing) have applied for an injunction to postpone Wednesday's games until the EFL sort it.
If, admittedly a big if, it's true that's peek 2020 stuff.
EFL would sort it and deduct points.
Clubs hit with deductions wouldn't like outcome so goes to appeal.
It's crazy to think you could be relegated and then be reprieved or could be safe but then relegated on appeal
Considering how soon clubs will be back in pre-season, they need to budget, release players etc. Clubs need to know where they stand, same with players
Even the Wigan situation is crucial to know as we could be in a situation where if Luton and Barnsley are winning and Wigan losing, then we'd 4th bottom with a draw as long as the 12 point deduction sticks.
If we then keep it tight to earn a 0-0, it would be really unfair to find out a week later that the 12 point Wigan deduction had been cancelled or reduced and we were now 3rd bottom
On the other hand if we think "we need the win in case Wigan's punishment is cancelled", go for it and lose 1-0 to a breakaway goal, and THEN find out that Wigan will still be punished, and as a result finish 3rd bottom behind Barnsley, that would be equally crazy.
Luton could easily also find themselves in that sort of situation, where they don't know whether a draw is good enough or not
I do think some if you like a drama & read more into things than is necessary.
The statement is rather simple (although I do agree rather bonkers too).
Wigan will be deducted 12 points after all the matches finish on Wednesday. If they then finish in the bottom 3 because of it they are relegated. However, they have appealed & the result of that appeal may change things.
As to the other issues regarding Derby & Sheff Wed - when the Independent hearings have concluded into both & punishments meted out (or not) then any points deductions will impact on the final table.
Now obviously this last bit is the bonkers bit. I can understand that they might not yet have decided on Derby's fate.......but Sheff Wed !!?? How long do they need ?? It's been over 2 weeks since the proceedings finished.
Obviously the big issue with these 2 clubs is in what season do the points deductions (if any) take place. Seeing as the charges & the hearings took place during this season then surely any punishment must be in this season too. IF the EFL have until Aug 4th before finally winding up this season you would have hoped that the decisions would be made by then. Surely.
So reading that statement it seems Wigan penalised now, Derby and Sheffield Wednesday penalised next season to all intents and purposes. If a relegated team wants to take legal action it can, but will still be relegated until the legal action decided. Knowing how slowly the law grinds that could be a year from now, after the team has played out 20/21 in league 1.
I can’t see how anyone can read it as saying that. It’s saying the bottom three as at end of Wednesday will be relegated, after Wigan’s points deduction has been applied, until such point as any sanctions against other clubs are applied when one or more of the relegated clubs may get a reprieve.
Could just be people have bet on us to get relegated hence the price has shortened slightly.
Although looking on oddschecker I see the odds of 2/1 is with Smarkets and not sure how much I trust there odds considering they have Sheffield Wednesday at 1/100 to be relegated lol.
What an empty statement. All people wanted, if they couldn't give a date or timeline, was a justification for why it was taking so long. They give nothing.
No date, no reasons, just to say that they are receiving a lot of questions and are not commenting.
Could just be people have bet on us to get relegated hence the price has shortened slightly.
Although looking on oddschecker I see the odds of 2/1 is with Smarkets and not sure how much I trust there odds considering they have Sheffield Wednesday at 1/100 to be relegated lol.
Betfair Exchange have us at 12/5
They need to take Smarkets off of Oddschecker.
As explained by another user, they are a “mickey mouse” version of the Betfair Exchange and the price listed as 1/100 on there means nothing.
Because it’s people betting against each other and no-one has a Smarkets account, there is no money in the pot waiting to back or lay them.
Sign up and put £10 of your own money in Smarkets to lay the Wendies at 1/10 and watch the price “lengthen” on Oddschecker five mins later.
My advice to the EFL would be that sometimes it is better to explain. They have a very official no comment stance in most situations which is often appropriate but this was not one of them. Confusing everybody so close to a vital night of matches is not a good look. When you have a vacuum, people try to fill it.
I also think there is a onus on them to explain why the Wednesday hearing has taken so long. Not in detail, but the delay with no explanation makes the league looks like complete incompetents. Maybe that is the explanation which would make it more understandable I suppose.
As for the Sheffield Wednesday situation, I can't see how it is that complicated. They tried to exploit a loophole outside of the period they infringed the rules. Their argument is that the EFL gave them position to do so. Surely something even Inspector Clouseau could get to the bottom of within a few hours!
My advice to the EFL would be that sometimes it is better to explain. They have a very official no comment stance in most situations which is often appropriate but this was not one of them. Confusing everybody so close to a vital night of matches is not a good look. When you have a vacuum, people try to fill it.
I also think there is a onus on them to explain why the Wednesday hearing has taken so long. Not in detail, but the delay with no explanation makes the league looks like complete incompetents. Maybe that is the explanation which would make it more understandable I suppose.
As for the Sheffield Wednesday situation, I can't see how it is that complicated. They tried to exploit a loophole outside of the period they infringed the rules. Their argument is that the EFL gave them position to do so. Surely something even Inspector Clouseau could get to the bottom of within a few hours!
Agreed.
Same with the Wigan situation. Rules state 12 point deduction for going into admin. You are clearly in admin and having a fire sale of your players (Moore to QPR for 2m apparently the latest) so there's your 12 point deduction. Appeal rejected, thank you and goodbye.
The punishment for going into administration has to be a matter of fact one and there should not be an appeal. The EFL needs more matter of fact punishments in all honesty. Did Wigan go into administration or not? I do feel for them, but if they got off - which they won't - it would undermine future cases and also past cases to be fair.
We have been speculating for quite a while about the possibility of us going into administration with the knowledge that should we do so, that is a 12 point deduction. Even if we have crap owners and Covid!
That EFL statement is so very disheartening. From it's poor choice of words, the obvious disdain they hold for us mere "stakeholders" through to the description of the actual process.
They say they announce the charges but they really shouldn't: just the end result.
Here's why. When I did investigations for the FSA (as it was then called) unless there were extenuating circumstances there would not even be an announcement that an investigation was on-going. The reason for this was simple: any information that started the investigation, however plausible it sounded, could have been false and malicious. The mere fact that an investigation was underway could have been enough to have killed off a business or severely damaged it and that would have been unfair on the business owners, customers and all its employees.
The same applies to a football club. But the EFL proudly announces that it is investigating a club! The result: "stakeholders" won't buy season tickets; sponsors will walk; players will not consider joining; current players will not want to stay; etc, etc. Yet if the EFL investigation comes to naught, all that damage is done for no reason. It is an outrage. They really are utterly useless.
I read the EFL statement as: Wigan’s point deduction will be applied at the end of Weds games. The three teams at the bottom will be relegated. But if any further points deductions are applied it might reprieve a team or teams in the bottom 3 (so good news for them). They know that Wigan’s appeal has been unsuccessful (because you can’t successfully appeal against a black and white decision around administration).
Comments
The stadium issue was first queried by the EFL in November 2019, so it's baffling why over a year and a half later it hasn't been resolved and any punishment awarded.
We might get relegated on Wednesday but reprieved by Sheff Wed having 21 points deducted sometime in August.
And who is it that keeps talking about the "integrity of the competition".
Couldnt run a fucking whelk stall.
Shit. I've been in lockdown a lot longer than I thought.
Pressure on the EFL to act decisively and immediately would be enormous.
And perhaps start a process of their subsequent reform and regulation.
Clubs hit with deductions wouldn't like outcome so goes to appeal.
Independent Commission rescind EFLs points deductions.
Clubs who are now affected by the points rescinded (relegated) now appeal.
They get stuffed and told to take it as it is.
Cheaters win.
Remember, the EFL is governed by its member clubs. When the EFL goes against member clubs, those clubs go for the EFL.
Its a no-win situation. Need a separate regulatory body with a backbone.
And @Airman Brown, Chris Farnell available you say? That says to me he has been dropped by CAFC?
Considering how soon clubs will be back in pre-season, they need to budget, release players etc. Clubs need to know where they stand, same with players
If we then keep it tight to earn a 0-0, it would be really unfair to find out a week later that the 12 point Wigan deduction had been cancelled or reduced and we were now 3rd bottom
On the other hand if we think "we need the win in case Wigan's punishment is cancelled", go for it and lose 1-0 to a breakaway goal, and THEN find out that Wigan will still be punished, and as a result finish 3rd bottom behind Barnsley, that would be equally crazy.
Luton could easily also find themselves in that sort of situation, where they don't know whether a draw is good enough or not
The statement is rather simple (although I do agree rather bonkers too).
Wigan will be deducted 12 points after all the matches finish on Wednesday. If they then finish in the bottom 3 because of it they are relegated. However, they have appealed & the result of that appeal may change things.
As to the other issues regarding Derby & Sheff Wed - when the Independent hearings have concluded into both & punishments meted out (or not) then any points deductions will impact on the final table.
Now obviously this last bit is the bonkers bit. I can understand that they might not yet have decided on Derby's fate.......but Sheff Wed !!?? How long do they need ?? It's been over 2 weeks since the proceedings finished.
Obviously the big issue with these 2 clubs is in what season do the points deductions (if any) take place. Seeing as the charges & the hearings took place during this season then surely any punishment must be in this season too. IF the EFL have until Aug 4th before finally winding up this season you would have hoped that the decisions would be made by then. Surely.
This news shortened the odds?
Could just be people have bet on us to get relegated hence the price has shortened slightly.
Although looking on oddschecker I see the odds of 2/1 is with Smarkets and not sure how much I trust there odds considering they have Sheffield Wednesday at 1/100 to be relegated lol.
Betfair Exchange have us at 12/5
I have done this based on positions in the current league table
Sheffield Wednesday- no price
Charlton-12/5
Luton-11/4
Wigan-4/5
Barnsley-1/16
Hull-1/33
No date, no reasons, just to say that they are receiving a lot of questions and are not commenting.
Beyond an outrage
As explained by another user, they are a “mickey mouse” version of the Betfair Exchange and the price listed as 1/100 on there means nothing.
Because it’s people betting against each other and no-one has a Smarkets account, there is no money in the pot waiting to back or lay them.
Sign up and put £10 of your own money in Smarkets to lay the Wendies at 1/10 and watch the price “lengthen” on Oddschecker five mins later.
£11k traded on Championship relegation in almost 12 months tells the story. To compare, Betfair Exchange has seen over £300k.
Again, if it wasn’t clear, ignore Smarkets odds. :-)
With a win we may even go above Huddersfield, Boro and Birmingham.
I also think there is a onus on them to explain why the Wednesday hearing has taken so long. Not in detail, but the delay with no explanation makes the league looks like complete incompetents. Maybe that is the explanation which would make it more understandable I suppose.
As for the Sheffield Wednesday situation, I can't see how it is that complicated. They tried to exploit a loophole outside of the period they infringed the rules. Their argument is that the EFL gave them position to do so. Surely something even Inspector Clouseau could get to the bottom of within a few hours!
Same with the Wigan situation. Rules state 12 point deduction for going into admin. You are clearly in admin and having a fire sale of your players (Moore to QPR for 2m apparently the latest) so there's your 12 point deduction. Appeal rejected, thank you and goodbye.
We have been speculating for quite a while about the possibility of us going into administration with the knowledge that should we do so, that is a 12 point deduction. Even if we have crap owners and Covid!
They say they announce the charges but they really shouldn't: just the end result.
Here's why. When I did investigations for the FSA (as it was then called) unless there were extenuating circumstances there would not even be an announcement that an investigation was on-going. The reason for this was simple: any information that started the investigation, however plausible it sounded, could have been false and malicious. The mere fact that an investigation was underway could have been enough to have killed off a business or severely damaged it and that would have been unfair on the business owners, customers and all its employees.
The same applies to a football club. But the EFL proudly announces that it is investigating a club! The result: "stakeholders" won't buy season tickets; sponsors will walk; players will not consider joining; current players will not want to stay; etc, etc. Yet if the EFL investigation comes to naught, all that damage is done for no reason. It is an outrage. They really are utterly useless.