@Airman Brown Couldn't PV and Co buy a new ground cheaper then 50m? If they brought the club in administration
Like 15,000-20,000 seater somewhere.
I know It's far from ideal and everyone might be like no way. And there is finding a suitable area, planning permition etc
But if it came to it, they could build something (or rent) cheaper then what RD's valuation of The Valley is?
And if they did go ahead with something like that, wouldn't RD be sitting on a useless bit of land? It's only real value is to CAFC?
If Charlton are not playing at the Valley would this change the Council’s position around developing the site? Could then be a large payday for Roland.
@Airman Brown Couldn't PV and Co buy a new ground cheaper then 50m? If they brought the club in administration
Like 15,000-20,000 seater somewhere.
I know It's far from ideal and everyone might be like no way. And there is finding a suitable area, planning permition etc
But if it came to it, they could build something (or rent) cheaper then what RD's valuation of The Valley is?
And if they did go ahead with something like that, wouldn't RD be sitting on a useless bit of land? It's only real value is to CAFC?
If Charlton are not playing at the Valley would this change the Council’s position around developing the site? Could then be a large payday for Roland.
It's never going to be a large payday for Roland. He spunked a lot of money because he couldn't run a football club. How much could he get building properties at the Valley? How much could he get from a serious bidder for the Valley? I bet the two amounts aren't that dissimilar. He wants a large payday because he doesn't want to be seen as a failure. He will never ever get the payday he wants.
Aren't we at the mercy of EFL? Don't we need them to say to ESI, if you are to start playing next season (in whatever division), you need to provide proof of funds by a set date or sell to someone who can.
If we lose our league membership, what have ESI got left to sell?
The EFL already has an odd number of clubs, following what happened with Bury and every week, have a team that doesn't play. I am sure they will quite happily see another go, just to get them back to an even number. I do suspect that there will be many other candidates for this, not just us.
@Airman Brown Couldn't PV and Co buy a new ground cheaper then 50m? If they brought the club in administration
Like 15,000-20,000 seater somewhere.
I know It's far from ideal and everyone might be like no way. And there is finding a suitable area, planning permition etc
But if it came to it, they could build something (or rent) cheaper then what RD's valuation of The Valley is?
And if they did go ahead with something like that, wouldn't RD be sitting on a useless bit of land? It's only real value is to CAFC?
It's Sparrow's Lane as well that Roland owns, indeed, in the sort term it's more important. We could survive groundsharing briefly at Millwall (however horrible that might be) but we need our own training ground.
This is how i see things panning out at the moment. ESI 2 have not taken over charlton,that puts ESI 1 back in the HOT seat. ESI 1 have not the money ie 20million to cover costs of running Charlton for the next 18MONTHS...
EFL come into play no one able to prove where money comes from EFL refuse Charlton the right to play in the EFL and we become the 2nd Bury.
Now what happens next i have no idea but if Varney and Barclay can save Charlton i am sure it will be done somehow.
Not happy with above myself but it lays at the feet of ROLAND and his doings.
Can someone explain how/why we would go into admin if wages and bills are being paid on time?
I get that we don't know who is paying them, but they are being paid.
If the EFL refuses to allow the club to start next season without proof of funds and ESI cannot show it, they would presumably be trading insolvently pretty quickly - which is potentially a criminal offence. No central revenue, no ticket revenue because no matches and no demonstrable business plan. Yes, transfer fees, but to what end?
Someone has to show the EFL circa £20m to be allowed to continue. Anybody who does that with Duchatelet’s deal hanging over their head and without current independent means to pay it is likely to be a fool or a crook.
The first question is whether ESI can pay the July wages or will choose to do so. The second is who is putting up the £5m-£10m the club is likely to lose between now and next May, even allowing for transfer income. Break even budget in the Championship is a hefty loss in L1 and there is no equilibrium point. You cannot cut your way out of it even if the players are amateurs - and that’s before we get to the effects of Covid-19
It wouldn't be pretty to watch on the field BUT in normal circumstances it should be possible to more or less break even in L1, especially as we now have no legacy high wage "Driesen" era players on the books. Or a moderate loss (from the cost of the academy) covered by player sales.
After all that's how it used to be not that long ago...
Of course Covid has thrown a massive spanner in football finances. PLUS the fact that ESI's presence will significantly reduce the crowds as well now
I'm sorry but that's complete nonsense. The club had an operating loss of £11.9m on turnover of £7.9m in 2018/19 and that was a year in which we reached the play-off final. How are you going to save £11.9m when operating expenses were £20m that season, even if the income were to be the same, which it won't be? Which players are you selling to offset it? The operating loss was £14.3m and £13.3m in the two previous L1 seasons.
Just because we heavily lost money that season doesn't mean we always have to. Especially as that side still had a few signings from our previous Championship campaign, the likes of Igor, Bauer, Sarr, and other players probably on big wages, the likes of Solly and Ajose
Burton Albion that season had a wage bill of around £6m versus our £10m and a loss of £1.9m vs our loss of £10m. And that was the season after they got relegated from the Championship, so would have had a higher cost structure than they would have done as a L1 club.
And out loss includes "accounting" costs likes depreciation and amortisation of £4m which aren't cash costs, and thus wouldn't be included if the EFL insisted on clubs being near break even on a cash basis.
A short list of problems would be the size of The Valley, the costs of staging matches including policing and stewarding (with, what, four times Burton’s crowds?), and traffic management, business rates, utilities, security and insurance plus the academy (which also attracts a grant). So closing the academy would be an obvious major saving. You OK with that?
I agree re the accounting costs, but even so you are not taking £8m of cost out of the business or anything like it and if that was possible you can rest assured that Roland would have done it. Don’t forget that was his priority in summer 2018. And the operating loss was £11.9m.
@Airman Brown Couldn't PV and Co buy a new ground cheaper then 50m? If they brought the club in administration
Like 15,000-20,000 seater somewhere.
I know It's far from ideal and everyone might be like no way. And there is finding a suitable area, planning permition etc
But if it came to it, they could build something (or rent) cheaper then what RD's valuation of The Valley is?
And if they did go ahead with something like that, wouldn't RD be sitting on a useless bit of land? It's only real value is to CAFC?
It's Sparrow's Lane as well that Roland owns, indeed, in the sort term it's more important. We could survive groundsharing briefly at Millwall (however horrible that might be) but we need our own training ground.
Once in one lifetime is more than enough. Id rather we just got the suffering over, say our goodbyes and died. At least whoever owns us wont get any money, the exowner could look forward in his next life taking on Greenwich council for years and years and we all could do something less stressful 9 months of the year.
Hopefully things will work out fine, some white knight will ride in and rescue us.
Wouldn't it be better to buy the club for as little as possible then put it into admin at the last moment before the agreement to buy the freehold comes into effect and or we are in a comfortable points position - or at least threaten RD with this?
If you put it in admin, you can't buy it back out.
Do you know that for sure? Is it a football rule?
You can't put a business into administration then effectively buy it back from the administrator. Else everyone would do it all the time.
What you can do is liquidate, knock all your creditors and pop back up with a different name trading in exactly the same business as before. A certain orange faced baboon is famous for it. You can't do it with a football club because even the EFL would refuse you the golden share. Probably.
But a mate of yours fronting a consortium could - if they pass the EFL test
So ESI #1 Announced they were taking over on 29/11/19. They may have provided evidence of their suitability a couple of weeks before. The EFL may have cut them a bit of slack and explained to them the evidence provided was not adequate early December. I believe the transfer embargo was activated in the first week of January.
So about a month for the EFL to take action.
Paul Elliott and his cronies announced their intention to takeover on 10/06/2020.
We are now entering the 6th week since that announcement. So have the EFL got back to gangster ltd. yet? I reckon they have.
Comments
If we lose our league membership, what have ESI got left to sell?
The EFL already has an odd number of clubs, following what happened with Bury and every week, have a team that doesn't play. I am sure they will quite happily see another go, just to get them back to an even number. I do suspect that there will be many other candidates for this, not just us.
This is how i see things panning out at the moment. ESI 2 have not taken over charlton,that puts ESI 1 back in the HOT seat. ESI 1 have not the money ie 20million to cover costs of running Charlton for the next 18MONTHS...
EFL come into play no one able to prove where money comes from EFL refuse Charlton the right to play in the EFL and we become the 2nd Bury.
Now what happens next i have no idea but if Varney and Barclay can save Charlton i am sure it will be done somehow.
Not happy with above myself but it lays at the feet of ROLAND and his doings.
I agree re the accounting costs, but even so you are not taking £8m of cost out of the business or anything like it and if that was possible you can rest assured that Roland would have done it. Don’t forget that was his priority in summer 2018. And the operating loss was £11.9m.
Hopefully things will work out fine, some white knight will ride in and rescue us.
So about a month for the EFL to take action.
Paul Elliott and his cronies announced their intention to takeover on 10/06/2020.
We are now entering the 6th week since that announcement.
So have the EFL got back to gangster ltd. yet?
I reckon they have.