If someone called me a white piece of shit and punched me I would say that was racist.
If I were the only white player on a football pitch and an official wanted to describe who had committed an offence, I think it sensible to say the white guy did it. Rather than say the 5' 8", tubby guy, with brown hair & light complexion, with short legs & adidas boots did it.
It's just common sense, but I fear that went some time ago in many cases.
What about if you were sat on a touchline and he said the White guy rather than just point to you, especially if there were more than 1 white guy on the bench
Bothered, stop being offended for other people
Well I’m not white and if someone referred to me as that brown guy I’d be pretty upset.
Emotions are high at the moment, and I’m generally feeling more aware of my ethnic make up than ever. So maybe I’m not best placed to look at this in a balanced way.
But my very clear feeling is I wouldn’t be happy about it at all.
If someone called me a white piece of shit and punched me I would say that was racist.
If I were the only white player on a football pitch and an official wanted to describe who had committed an offence, I think it sensible to say the white guy did it. Rather than say the 5' 8", tubby guy, with brown hair & light complexion, with short legs & adidas boots did it.
It's just common sense, but I fear that went some time ago in many cases.
What about if you were sat on a touchline and he said the White guy rather than just point to you, especially if there were more than 1 white guy on the bench
Bothered, stop being offended for other people
And there is my point.
You just said stop being offended for other people, I am not being offended for other people, i said imagine if it was the other way round, but you cant do that, as a white person you straight away are saying there is nothing wrong with referencing someone by their skin colour, and having a go at me for saying actually no there is something wrong with that.
I'm going to throw it out there that there probably aren't many black fellas playing for a Turkish football team. Saying "the black guy" is not in the slightest bit racist, it's been totally misconstrued because black in Romanian sounds like a racist term in English. It has all kicked off so demba ba has rightly stuck up for what is right, he's then found out that "negru" means "black" and has kicked off to save face
So why did both teams walk off?
Because it's the hair that breaks the camels back.
My Romania isn't too good but In Spanish the word for Black is negro (mas) and Negra(fem,) It's why many south America players use the word.
If an official is asked who did something and you can't see a number then how can it be offensive to say that black guy. If there are several black players together then you would have to find some other redeeming feature or obviously say their name if known.
There is definitely something being lost in translation here.
He wasn't the only black guy on the bench! So why is saying 'the Black guy' any help whatsoever?
You'd be better off saying the 2nd from the left or that person over there and actually point at him.
This is exactly the point I have been trying to make for the last couple if hours on here, as I am sure you are aware I struggld at times to get what I am trying to say accross accurately.
But this is it, you don't need to address someone by the colour of their skin, just point to the guy.
The 4th official used the wrong terminology. The ‘black guy’ or whatever is hardly KKK. Mad the amount of shit refs put up with ‘you cheating c**t’ etc gets brushed over.
It’s not inherently racist to say what the fourth official said (assuming ‘negru’ is indeed benign). We don’t live in a world where people are either racist or they’re not. This speaks to an unconscious element to the problem.
As a white man, I am fine with being ID’d by my race cos it’s never been a negative for me.
And if you were playing Guess Who and there was only one black guy, you’d be fucked if you pulled that card, cos it’d be the easiest question to ask to narrow the game down - so of course it makes sense to say what he said.
It’s just that when a person has been judged or treated poorly because of that very factor, they’d rather be seen in other ways. Not have their race be how they’re described every time. I get that, I’m fine with it. I remember Garth Crooks being pelted with bananas, it wasn’t that long ago.
I don’t think the official meant any harm, and had this happened somewhere away from cameras and charged-up players, a simple conversation could easily have rectified the whole thing.
I think people get irritated by incidents like this. There is plenty of real racism that takes place everyday, but an unmalicious phrase uttered by a 4th official to identify someone in the easiest way possible quite frankly undermines genuine cases of racism.
Still not sure how United have managed to fuck that group up. They beat PSG and Leipzig in their first 2 matches. From there you only need 1 more point against either to go through and they've lost both.
They had 6 points from 2 games and 9 points from 4 games and they've gone out.
They finished the game against Zenit last night with:
Youssoufa Moukoko (16)
Jude Bellingham (17)
Gio Reyna (18)
Ansgar Knauff (18)
Jadon Sancho (20)
Dan-Axel Zagadou (21)
You won't win anything with kids.
I/we won the Tandridge U12 cup final with my boy scoring the winning goals in semi and Final ZZZZZzzzzzz
Haaland Is only 20 and has scored 23 goals in 23 matches for Dortmund. The 6ft 4in Norwegian striker is the dogs testicles; now similar to testicles, Strikers work better as a pair But Haaland can work well with the winger/striker Sancho or on his own as long as he is supplied.
They finished the game against Zenit last night with:
Youssoufa Moukoko (16)
Jude Bellingham (17)
Gio Reyna (18)
Ansgar Knauff (18)
Jadon Sancho (20)
Dan-Axel Zagadou (21)
They have won 1 trophy in last 10 years
That’s not really relevant to the post though. Their problem has been keeping those players. You add Haaland to that list alongside a few others and in 3-4 years they would have a strong squad, probably one capable of competing with Bayern and in Europe.
They find these players, pay decent money and sell on for tidy profit. It’s a great model but similar to Brentford and Peterborough over here, it’s just stopped them from taking that next step.
They finished the game against Zenit last night with:
Youssoufa Moukoko (16)
Jude Bellingham (17)
Gio Reyna (18)
Ansgar Knauff (18)
Jadon Sancho (20)
Dan-Axel Zagadou (21)
They have won 1 trophy in last 10 years
That’s not really relevant to the post though. Their problem has been keeping those players. You add Haaland to that list alongside a few others and in 3-4 years they would have a strong squad, probably one capable of competing with Bayern and in Europe.
They find these players, pay decent money and sell on for tidy profit. It’s a great model but similar to Brentford and Peterborough over here, it’s just stopped them from taking that next step.
Exactly. They're like Brentford but on a much bigger scale.
100m+ profit on Dembele. 60m profit on Pulisic. 50m profit on Aubameyang. Will make 100m+ on Sancho. Profit on Haaland will depend on whether he has the alleged release clause or not. Reyna is a great talent. Bellingham for 30m could be another bargain. If Moukoko lives up to the hype he'll be another 100m player.
They finished the game against Zenit last night with:
Youssoufa Moukoko (16)
Jude Bellingham (17)
Gio Reyna (18)
Ansgar Knauff (18)
Jadon Sancho (20)
Dan-Axel Zagadou (21)
They have won 1 trophy in last 10 years
That’s not really relevant to the post though. Their problem has been keeping those players. You add Haaland to that list alongside a few others and in 3-4 years they would have a strong squad, probably one capable of competing with Bayern and in Europe.
They find these players, pay decent money and sell on for tidy profit. It’s a great model but similar to Brentford and Peterborough over here, it’s just stopped them from taking that next step.
Exactly. They're like Brentford but on a much bigger scale.
100m+ profit on Dembele. 60m profit on Pulisic. 50m profit on Aubameyang. Will make 100m+ on Sancho. Profit on Haaland will depend on whether he has the alleged release clause or not. Reyna is a great talent. Bellingham for 30m could be another bargain. If Moukoko lives up to the hype he'll be another 100m player.
It's also no great shame coming second to Bayern.
Definitely no shame. I would be frustrated as a Dortmund fan though. You look at those figures/players you’ve listed and it could have been so much better. There just seems to be the same inevitability as to what will happen again.
The 4th official used the wrong terminology. The ‘black guy’ or whatever is hardly KKK. Mad the amount of shit refs put up with ‘you cheating c**t’ etc gets brushed over.
Before the lower leagues were shut to fans from November 5th, my son and I went to about 20 matches mainly our local team, including plenty of FA cup preliminary rounds and it's staggering the amount of direct abuse the officials receive from the players. At the 8th and 9th level the floodlights are substandard and the light is patchy and how refs who obviously are either just in their early 20's and inexperienced, or 55+ and who's legs and eyes are struggling can make the right calls is very problematical.
He wasn't the only black guy on the bench! So why is saying 'the Black guy' any help whatsoever?
You'd be better off saying the 2nd from the left or that person over there and actually point at him.
You are wrong in this case.
John Barnes who suffered with shocking banana throwing abuse in his time explains what happened.
They was only one person on the coaching staff on the Turkish bench who was black. So in not knowing his name he spoke Rumania and said Negru.
Rumania and the Spanish language will have to be changed.
As I said it a shame players didn't walk off and stay off in genuine cases that have happened over the years.
This will be an own goal.
I hate bigotry, after 3 years under the African sun as a young boy I received some racist remarks until my skin coloured turned lighter after two months of an English winter.
John Barnes and my aquaintences who are footballers playing as part time pros said they are proud to be called Black. Just don't say the word Bastard and black at the same time.
He wasn't the only black guy on the bench! So why is saying 'the Black guy' any help whatsoever?
You'd be better off saying the 2nd from the left or that person over there and actually point at him.
You are wrong in this case.
John Barnes who suffered with shocking banana throwing abuse in his time explains what happened.
They was only one person on the coaching staff on the Turkish bench who was black. So in not knowing his name he spoke Rumania and said Negru.
Rumania and the Spanish language will have to be changed.
As I said it a shame players didn't walk off and stay off in genuine cases that have happened over the years.
This will be an own goal.
I hate bigotry, after 3 years under the African sun as a young boy I received some racist remarks until my skin coloured turned lighter after two months of an English winter.
John Barnes and my aquaintences who are footballers playing as part time pros said they are proud to be called Black. Just don't say the word Bastard and black at the same time.
Players + Coaches all sit on the bench.
Demba Ba was sat on the bench as well. So not the only black person in the bench area.
Gladbach lose to Madrid but as Shakhtar and Inter drew the German side go through to the round of 16 anyway.
Fantastic scenes at the end of the match as the Gladbach game finished a good 6 or 7 minutes before the Inter one. The entire Gladbach squad all sat huddled around a single iPhone watching the other game knowing if either team scored they would drop to the Europa League. As the ref finally blew his whistle in the Inter game the players went mad. They led the group for most of the last 2 months with their high scoring, attacking football its good to see them make it to the knockout rounds.
Gladbach lose to Madrid but as Shakhtar and Inter drew the German side go through to the round of 16 anyway.
Fantastic scenes at the end of the match as the Gladbach game finished a good 6 or 7 minutes before the Inter one. The entire Gladbach squad all sat huddled around a single iPhone watching the other game knowing if either team scored they would drop to the Europa League. As the ref finally blew his whistle in the Inter game the players went mad. They led the group for most of the last 2 months with their high scoring, attacking football its good to see them make it to the knockout rounds.
"Inter need a goal, get a 94th minute corner, keeper Handanovic goes up, Eriksen hits the first man and a blind panic briefly ensues as Shakhtar counter."
I used to love the Champions league growing up, but i barely have any interest in it these days. My theory for why the Champions league is pretty dull, particularly the group stage is that there are far too many games on tv. Before it was a treat to have live football on tele and now days every single game seems to be available somewhere. I don’t have BT but i have seen little bits of it occasionally, and the coverage on ITV 5+ years ago seems much better and is free to view.
Add in no fans being allowed it all seems very flat to me?
Monchengladbach vs Man City Lazio vs Bayern Munich Atletico Madrid vs Chelsea RB Leipzig vs Liverpool Porto vs Juventus Barcelona vs PSG Atalanta vs Real Madrid Sevilla vs Dortmund
Atalanta and Atletico Madrid are the unseeded teams I would fancy right now BUT its 2 months until the games will be played and a lot will happen before then.
Atalanta have a lot of backroom drama at the moment, with Captain Papu Gomez having fallen out with Gasperini. Gasperini offered to resign, the club refused, and Gomez is now posting cryptic instagram stories saying he'll tell all after he leaves in January.
Neymar back to Barcelona (if his ankle injury isn't as bad as feared) is probably the tie of the round.
Some good ties there but as you say the next round is 2-3 months away so a lot can happen, new signings, loss of form etc. Although i'd say City, Bayern and Juve will all stroll through.
Comments
Emotions are high at the moment, and I’m generally feeling more aware of my ethnic make up than ever. So maybe I’m not best placed to look at this in a balanced way.
But my very clear feeling is I wouldn’t be happy about it at all.
You just said stop being offended for other people, I am not being offended for other people, i said imagine if it was the other way round, but you cant do that, as a white person you straight away are saying there is nothing wrong with referencing someone by their skin colour, and having a go at me for saying actually no there is something wrong with that.
Because it's the hair that breaks the camels back.
My Romania isn't too good but In Spanish the word for Black is negro (mas) and Negra(fem,)
It's why many south America players use the word.
If an official is asked who did something and you can't see a number then how can it be offensive to say that black guy. If there are several black players together then you would have to find some other redeeming feature or obviously say their name if known.
There is definitely something being lost in translation here.
You'd be better off saying the 2nd from the left or that person over there and actually point at him.
But this is it, you don't need to address someone by the colour of their skin, just point to the guy.
Bloke will probably lose his career now.
They had 6 points from 2 games and 9 points from 4 games and they've gone out.
They finished the game against Zenit last night with:
I/we won the Tandridge U12 cup final with my boy scoring the winning goals in semi and Final ZZZZZzzzzzz
Haaland Is only 20 and has scored 23 goals in 23 matches for Dortmund. The 6ft 4in Norwegian striker is the dogs testicles; now similar to testicles, Strikers work better as a pair But Haaland can work well with the winger/striker Sancho or on his own as long as he is supplied.
100m+ profit on Dembele.
60m profit on Pulisic.
50m profit on Aubameyang.
Will make 100m+ on Sancho.
Profit on Haaland will depend on whether he has the alleged release clause or not.
Reyna is a great talent.
Bellingham for 30m could be another bargain.
If Moukoko lives up to the hype he'll be another 100m player.
It's also no great shame coming second to Bayern.
Before the lower leagues were shut to fans from November 5th, my son and I went to about 20 matches mainly our local team, including plenty of FA cup preliminary rounds and it's staggering the amount of direct abuse the officials receive from the players. At the 8th and 9th level the floodlights are substandard and the light is patchy and how refs who obviously are either just in their early 20's and inexperienced, or 55+ and who's legs and eyes are struggling can make the right calls is very problematical.
You are wrong in this case.
John Barnes who suffered with shocking banana throwing abuse in his time explains what happened.
They was only one person on the coaching staff on the Turkish bench who was black. So in not knowing his name he spoke Rumania and said Negru.
Rumania and the Spanish language will have to be changed.
As I said it a shame players didn't walk off and stay off in genuine cases that have happened over the years.
This will be an own goal.
I hate bigotry, after 3 years under the African sun as a young boy I received some racist remarks until my skin coloured turned lighter after two months of an English winter.
John Barnes and my aquaintences who are footballers playing as part time pros said they are proud to be called Black. Just don't say the word Bastard and black at the same time.
Demba Ba was sat on the bench as well. So not the only black person in the bench area.
Fantastic scenes at the end of the match as the Gladbach game finished a good 6 or 7 minutes before the Inter one.
The entire Gladbach squad all sat huddled around a single iPhone watching the other game knowing if either team scored they would drop to the Europa League. As the ref finally blew his whistle in the Inter game the players went mad.
They led the group for most of the last 2 months with their high scoring, attacking football its good to see them make it to the knockout rounds.
Bayern, Real Madrid, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Dortmund, Juventus and PSG. No major surprises there.
Real Madrid sneak top spot and because the other Spanish sides all got second, Madrid know they can only face Porto, Lazio, Leipzig or Atalanta.
The runner ups most teams will want to avoid are Atletico. We could add Barcelona to that but depends which Barcelona turn up.
Monchengladbach vs Man City
Lazio vs Bayern Munich
Atletico Madrid vs Chelsea
RB Leipzig vs Liverpool
Porto vs Juventus
Barcelona vs PSG
Atalanta vs Real Madrid
Sevilla vs Dortmund
Hint of the Lyle Taylor about it all.
Some good ties there but as you say the next round is 2-3 months away so a lot can happen, new signings, loss of form etc. Although i'd say City, Bayern and Juve will all stroll through.