.When I was a child my Mum spent all her money on alcohol. She left me home alone for hours often with empty cupboards. Once I was so hungry, I mixed everything I could find in the kitchen in a big pot and ate it. I was sick for a week.
I would turn up on peoples doorsteps that I knew in the area and ask for food. I was taken in by an old man named John who would feed me and I would often be sitting on my aunts doorstep when she came home from work. One such evening my aunt lost her temper, walked me to the pub my Mum was in, pulled her out and they started fighting outside the pub. Despite all the traumatic childhood memories I have, that one is so vivid. I was so desperate to stop that fight. I was six years old.
According to some small minded people, I deserved to starve as a child because my Mum shouldn't have given birth to me. I quite agree, I wish she hadn't, my childhood was a living nightmare but it was peoples kindness that got me through it. I dread to think how I would have turned out if it wasn't for the kindness of strangers, my aunt/my rock and moving in with my Dad when I was 10, saved me.
Don't be so quick to condemn vulnerable children to starvation, they should never be punished because of the actions of their parents. The Tories are scum because they have the power to offer kindness and a decent meal to children in need but they have chosen not to. All whilst they burgle the public purse to keep their cronies bank balances fat.
Would like to hear peoples idea on actually solving the problem instead of just the "free meals for kids" strategy currently being banded around.
You can solve 90% of the issue quite quickly;
1. All meals in state schools become free. 5-18. 2. Sort out the benefit levels & mess. Urgent review of housing benefit levels which are almost always too low. 3. Longer term, education, education, education (appreciate its very complex but not beyond the wit of man(.
We had that promise under Tony Blair and no real improvement came of it.
100% agree with free meals to those kids in state schools.
I am not in the position to provide the links, but I believe there was some 'real improvement'. The 'achievement' of students in London certainly increased according to some measures used, and there are new buildings at Thonas Tallis, Eltham Hill, Crown Woods amongst other places. There was also the EMA for sixth formers that helped them stay and do A levels. If you mean an improvement in wider society, well for the last decade there has not been Education Education Education as a mantra, there has been a tripling of student fees though. It may be the previous improvements in terms of wider societal benefit via education has been about running to stand still.
Would like to hear peoples idea on actually solving the problem instead of just the "free meals for kids" strategy currently being banded around.
Well, the immediate "problem" is children who rely on free school meals going hungry during half term and then Christmas school holidays.
So what Rashford is proposing solves that problem as does the work by local businesses, charities and some councils.
Now, I agree there are other, longer term problems (universal credit being too little and taking too long, unemployment and under employment, low wages, a government willing to reward its donors and friends with multiple billion pound contracts for shoddy work rather than fund free school meals, etc etc,etc) but while those are being dealt with the children, through no fault of their own, are likely to have less to eat than they need.
In one of the richest countries in the world.
That is the problem.
So any ideas on how to solve it?
Yes, pay the schools and or councils to keep their kitchens open
And as the staff may want to take some time off as traditionally have not worked school holidays (potentially as have children themselves) and appreciate rather than be condescending to anyone who offers to volunteer, rather than be sarcastic or condescending about their ability, or otherwise to cook 100s of meals, the food, the cleaning, the electricity, the DBS checks.
I am also for empowering parents to feed children in distress would be a very good start. Whilst it is not the case in an increasing number of cases, as has been witnessed by contributors to this tread, income is not priotitised effectively and the answer is not to just giving more. And yes, an overhaul of the benefits system if too many are abusing it (and get more than is reasonably needed) and others genuinely receive too little.
Having lived and worked in countries including Pakistan , Yemen and South Africa and visited other similar countries, I think the generalised emotive use of the work 'starving is misplaced. I think we al agree, there are children going hungry and/or not getting sufficient nutrition
This thread is pretty depressing. How do we solve it? We make sure kids don't go hungry. The Government can decide to ensure this does not happen or not. They voted not didn't they? If we need a strategy to solve the issue of feckless parents, we must not fall into the trap of assuming that all parents that have difficulties feeding their kids fall into this category. Maybe, these issues should not be treated as the same. We are playing the games of the ignorant by doing so.
.When I was a child my Mum spent all her money on alcohol. She left me home alone for hours often with empty cupboards. Once I was so hungry, I mixed everything I could find in the kitchen in a big pot and ate it. I was sick for a week.
I would turn up on peoples doorsteps that I knew in the area and ask for food. I was taken in by an old man named John who would feed me and I would often be sitting on my aunts doorstep when she came home from work. One such evening my aunt lost her temper, walked me to the pub my Mum was in, pulled her out and they started fighting outside the pub. Despite all the traumatic childhood memories I have, that one is so vivid. I was so desperate to stop that fight. I was six years old.
According to some small minded people, I deserved to starve as a child because my Mum shouldn't have given birth to me. I quite agree, I wish she hadn't, my childhood was a living nightmare but it was peoples kindness that got me through it. I dread to think how I would have turned out if it wasn't for the kindness of strangers, my aunt/my rock and moving in with my Dad when I was 10, saved me.
Don't be so quick to condemn vulnerable children to starvation, they should never be punished because of the actions of their parents. The Tories are scum because they have the power to offer kindness and a decent meal to children in need but they have chosen not to. All whilst they burgle the public purse to keep their cronies bank balances fat.
Whilst a shocking story - but why say someone thinks you or any child deserved to starve. No one thinks that and it is completely wrong to accuse anyone of this.
I am backing out of this thread because, whilst I understand it is an emotive subject, people are name-calling unnecessarily. No need to call any government 'scum' because they don't agree with you. People have different approaches to issues akin to good-cop/bad-cop and there are different ways. some more progressive and others a tough love approach. Like me, you might not agree with one approach but there is no need to accuse people of not caring because they don't agree with you
If there was a traffic accident and a person was injured in the road, would it be best to first assess the road conditions, the lighting and signage round about, the capacity of the drivers, the engineering and roadworthiness of the vehicles, set up an enquiry as to whether to designate the place as an accident blackspot, and measure the emissions of CO2 caused because of the incident? Or would the first thing be to call an ambulance?
.When I was a child my Mum spent all her money on alcohol. She left me home alone for hours often with empty cupboards. Once I was so hungry, I mixed everything I could find in the kitchen in a big pot and ate it. I was sick for a week.
I would turn up on peoples doorsteps that I knew in the area and ask for food. I was taken in by an old man named John who would feed me and I would often be sitting on my aunts doorstep when she came home from work. One such evening my aunt lost her temper, walked me to the pub my Mum was in, pulled her out and they started fighting outside the pub. Despite all the traumatic childhood memories I have, that one is so vivid. I was so desperate to stop that fight. I was six years old.
According to some small minded people, I deserved to starve as a child because my Mum shouldn't have given birth to me. I quite agree, I wish she hadn't, my childhood was a living nightmare but it was peoples kindness that got me through it. I dread to think how I would have turned out if it wasn't for the kindness of strangers, my aunt/my rock and moving in with my Dad when I was 10, saved me.
Don't be so quick to condemn vulnerable children to starvation, they should never be punished because of the actions of their parents. The Tories are scum because they have the power to offer kindness and a decent meal to children in need but they have chosen not to. All whilst they burgle the public purse to keep their cronies bank balances fat.
Whilst a shocking story - but why say someone thinks you or any child deserved to starve. No one thinks that and it is completely wrong to accuse anyone of this.
I am backing out of this thread because, whilst I understand it is an emotive subject, people are name-calling unnecessarily. No need to call any government 'scum' because they don't agree with you. People have different approaches to issues akin to good-cop/bad-cop and there are different ways. some more progressive and others a tough love approach. Like me, you might not agree with one approach but there is no need to accuse people of not caring because they don't agree with you
You must have missed the overall tone on SM, all the posts about people not having kids if they can't afford to have them and it not being the responsibility of the government.
Personality i also agree they are scumbags voting against feeding the most vulnerable kids, while being paid 80k, huge expenses and having your food subsidised.
Would like to hear peoples idea on actually solving the problem instead of just the "free meals for kids" strategy currently being banded around.
You can solve 90% of the issue quite quickly;
1. All meals in state schools become free. 5-18. 2. Sort out the benefit levels & mess. Urgent review of housing benefit levels which are almost always too low. 3. Longer term, education, education, education (appreciate its very complex but not beyond the wit of man(.
We had that promise under Tony Blair and no real improvement came of it.
100% agree with free meals to those kids in state schools.
I am not in the position to provide the links, but I believe there was some 'real improvement'. The 'achievement' of students in London certainly increased according to some measures used, and there are new buildings at Thonas Tallis, Eltham Hill, Crown Woods amongst other places. There was also the EMA for sixth formers that helped them stay and do A levels. If you mean an improvement in wider society, well for the last decade there has not been Education Education Education as a mantra, there has been a tripling of student fees though. It may be the previous improvements in terms of wider societal benefit via education has been about running to stand still.
Having taught during both Labour & Tory governments I can tell you that I saw no real difference except passing the buck. It's going to get worse under these chancers too.
My experiences are not alone either as my sister who has taught her entire adult life told me some absolute horror stories that included giving an age group an end of year exam that the educational board knew they would fail as it would make the following years results look like improvements being "made"
Both sides are cooking the books, lets not kid ourselves
.When I was a child my Mum spent all her money on alcohol. She left me home alone for hours often with empty cupboards. Once I was so hungry, I mixed everything I could find in the kitchen in a big pot and ate it. I was sick for a week.
I would turn up on peoples doorsteps that I knew in the area and ask for food. I was taken in by an old man named John who would feed me and I would often be sitting on my aunts doorstep when she came home from work. One such evening my aunt lost her temper, walked me to the pub my Mum was in, pulled her out and they started fighting outside the pub. Despite all the traumatic childhood memories I have, that one is so vivid. I was so desperate to stop that fight. I was six years old.
According to some small minded people, I deserved to starve as a child because my Mum shouldn't have given birth to me. I quite agree, I wish she hadn't, my childhood was a living nightmare but it was peoples kindness that got me through it. I dread to think how I would have turned out if it wasn't for the kindness of strangers, my aunt/my rock and moving in with my Dad when I was 10, saved me.
Don't be so quick to condemn vulnerable children to starvation, they should never be punished because of the actions of their parents. The Tories are scum because they have the power to offer kindness and a decent meal to children in need but they have chosen not to. All whilst they burgle the public purse to keep their cronies bank balances fat.
Whilst a shocking story - but why say someone thinks you or any child deserved to starve. No one thinks that and it is completely wrong to accuse anyone of this.
I am backing out of this thread because, whilst I understand it is an emotive subject, people are name-calling unnecessarily. No need to call any government 'scum' because they don't agree with you. People have different approaches to issues akin to good-cop/bad-cop and there are different ways. some more progressive and others a tough love approach. Like me, you might not agree with one approach but there is no need to accuse people of not caring because they don't agree with you
I think BoJo is looking to back out of the thread too...
Would like to hear peoples idea on actually solving the problem instead of just the "free meals for kids" strategy currently being banded around.
You can solve 90% of the issue quite quickly;
1. All meals in state schools become free. 5-18. 2. Sort out the benefit levels & mess. Urgent review of housing benefit levels which are almost always too low. 3. Longer term, education, education, education (appreciate its very complex but not beyond the wit of man(.
We had that promise under Tony Blair and no real improvement came of it.
100% agree with free meals to those kids in state schools.
I am not in the position to provide the links, but I believe there was some 'real improvement'. The 'achievement' of students in London certainly increased according to some measures used, and there are new buildings at Thonas Tallis, Eltham Hill, Crown Woods amongst other places. There was also the EMA for sixth formers that helped them stay and do A levels. If you mean an improvement in wider society, well for the last decade there has not been Education Education Education as a mantra, there has been a tripling of student fees though. It may be the previous improvements in terms of wider societal benefit via education has been about running to stand still.
Having taught during both Labour & Tory governments I can tell you that I saw no real difference except passing the buck. It's going to get worse under these chancers too.
My experiences are not alone either as my sister who has taught her entire adult life told me some absolute horror stories that included giving an age group an end of year exam that the educational board knew they would fail as it would make the following years results look like improvements being "made"
Both sides are cooking the books, lets not kid ourselves
I tend to agree. The books that get cooked are anyway an attempt to describe what kind of bangs for the buck the taxpayer gets for investment in education. Which of course leads on to the much more difficult question what is education and schooling actually for? The more difficult 'data' by which educational value might be measured could be about the betterment of the wider society as a whole, not only by exam results for individuals. On balance I also believe having 'education, education, education' as a mantra somewhere in your ideology, is better than not having it at all.
.When I was a child my Mum spent all her money on alcohol. She left me home alone for hours often with empty cupboards. Once I was so hungry, I mixed everything I could find in the kitchen in a big pot and ate it. I was sick for a week.
I would turn up on peoples doorsteps that I knew in the area and ask for food. I was taken in by an old man named John who would feed me and I would often be sitting on my aunts doorstep when she came home from work. One such evening my aunt lost her temper, walked me to the pub my Mum was in, pulled her out and they started fighting outside the pub. Despite all the traumatic childhood memories I have, that one is so vivid. I was so desperate to stop that fight. I was six years old.
According to some small minded people, I deserved to starve as a child because my Mum shouldn't have given birth to me. I quite agree, I wish she hadn't, my childhood was a living nightmare but it was peoples kindness that got me through it. I dread to think how I would have turned out if it wasn't for the kindness of strangers, my aunt/my rock and moving in with my Dad when I was 10, saved me.
Don't be so quick to condemn vulnerable children to starvation, they should never be punished because of the actions of their parents. The Tories are scum because they have the power to offer kindness and a decent meal to children in need but they have chosen not to. All whilst they burgle the public purse to keep their cronies bank balances fat.
Whilst a shocking story - but why say someone thinks you or any child deserved to starve. No one thinks that and it is completely wrong to accuse anyone of this.
I am backing out of this thread because, whilst I understand it is an emotive subject, people are name-calling unnecessarily. No need to call any government 'scum' because they don't agree with you. People have different approaches to issues akin to good-cop/bad-cop and there are different ways. some more progressive and others a tough love approach. Like me, you might not agree with one approach but there is no need to accuse people of not caring because they don't agree with you
I think BoJo is looking to back out of the thread too...
Cold war, diesel submarine engineer--never voted 'cept for brexit bit of a little Englander in truth and not ashamed of it.
He twittered this:
And he used the term 'black footballers' in his tweet.
Interesting his use of the plural where Marcus Rashford is the single main instigator. Even more interesting that he felt the need to include the word 'black'.
I refer the right honourable ladies and gentleman right back to his self-description.
Cold war, diesel submarine engineer--never voted 'cept for brexit bit of a little Englander in truth and not ashamed of it.
He twittered this:
And he used the term 'black footballers' in his tweet.
Interesting his use of the plural where Marcus Rashford is the single main instigator. Even more interesting that he felt the need to include the word 'black'.
I refer the right honourable ladies and gentleman right back to his self-description.
FFS
Totally agree with you regarding the need to say black - what a low life scumbag he his
Cold war, diesel submarine engineer--never voted 'cept for brexit bit of a little Englander in truth and not ashamed of it.
He twittered this:
And he used the term 'black footballers' in his tweet.
Interesting his use of the plural where Marcus Rashford is the single main instigator. Even more interesting that he felt the need to include the word 'black'.
I refer the right honourable ladies and gentleman right back to his self-description.
FFS
Totally agree with you regarding the need to say black - what a low life scumbag he his
Done well on that budget though
He fails to mention how much the beef joint was though, conveniently.
Cold war, diesel submarine engineer--never voted 'cept for brexit bit of a little Englander in truth and not ashamed of it.
He twittered this:
And he used the term 'black footballers' in his tweet.
Interesting his use of the plural where Marcus Rashford is the single main instigator. Even more interesting that he felt the need to include the word 'black'.
I refer the right honourable ladies and gentleman right back to his self-description.
FFS
Totally agree with you regarding the need to say black - what a low life scumbag he his
Done well on that budget though
He fails to mention how much the beef joint was though, conveniently.
I don't know how meat works. However I'm guessing that to get 12 meals from a beef joint (unless the portions were minute) the original size might have been a quarter of a cow. He hasn't factored in energy costs for cooking, or the fairy liquid for the washing up. Plus water rates.
Cold war, diesel submarine engineer--never voted 'cept for brexit bit of a little Englander in truth and not ashamed of it.
He twittered this:
And he used the term 'black footballers' in his tweet.
Interesting his use of the plural where Marcus Rashford is the single main instigator. Even more interesting that he felt the need to include the word 'black'.
I refer the right honourable ladies and gentleman right back to his self-description.
FFS
Totally agree with you regarding the need to say black - what a low life scumbag he his
Done well on that budget though
He fails to mention how much the beef joint was though, conveniently.
I don't know how meat works. However I'm guessing that to get 12 meals from a beef joint (unless the portions were minute) the original size might have been a quarter of a cow. He hasn't factored in energy costs for cooking, or the fairy liquid for the washing up. Plus water rates.
Electricity would only be about 15p per hour and gas 4p per hour
A kilo of cheap beef (Brisket or Silverside) can be bought for about £6 and It's fairly easy to cook it in a casserole or a slow cooker. For an old person that's probably about 12 small portions (including the sauce/gravy it was braised in).
He says the meat has done 'us' for at least 12 meals. So that probably puts the biscuit up to around £12 for two kilos. He forgot to include the sauce or gravy cost.
If the bloke wants to make some kind of point by being the one to list the prices, he ought to list the price of everything. Anyway roadkill is cheaper.
He says the meat has done 'us' for at least 12 meals. So that probably puts the biscuit up to around £12 for two kilos. He forgot to include the sauce or gravy cost.
If the bloke wants to make some kind of point by being the one to list the prices, he ought to list the price of everything. Anyway roadkill is cheaper.
Btw I wasn't trying to prove any points with my last post, just an observation.
Other then the needless and crass race baiting Seth do you not think he has done well? 12 meals for about £10-£15 (That's including gravy, energy & water rates)
You could go down to Seewoo cash and carry in Charlton and get a bag of three elephant rice about 10 kilos for £20 or something like that. That and plain water would feed somebody for quite a long time. I suppose the guy eats as he describes all the time every meal, there are some who would doubt it, and maybe say he is trying to deflect or dilute the issue. Indeed it certainly is possible to live on a plain diet of rice and water, or boiled split lentils like in the Young Ones, or as I did as a student beans on toast. Stating that, does it mean 'end of debate'? And of course the question remains what do you do with the hungry children if the parents are such tossers they don't even provide a meal of reheated brisket in gravy, parsnips, peas and potato for, what, £1.50 per head? Adults might be theoretically able to go to such lengths, but if they don't or can't? I see his post as 'race baiting' as you describe it first and foremost.
Oh a yes. He has demonstrated that in certain circumstances a meal of some kind can be put together cheaply. His attempted point about it being related to the hungry children issue was in my opinion way off the mark, because it comes over to me as overt racism.
Comments
.When I was a child my Mum spent all her money on alcohol. She left me home alone for hours often with empty cupboards. Once I was so hungry, I mixed everything I could find in the kitchen in a big pot and ate it. I was sick for a week.
If you mean an improvement in wider society, well for the last decade there has not been Education Education Education as a mantra, there has been a tripling of student fees though. It may be the previous improvements in terms of wider societal benefit via education has been about running to stand still.
I am also for empowering parents to feed children in distress would be a very good start. Whilst it is not the case in an increasing number of cases, as has been witnessed by contributors to this tread, income is not priotitised effectively and the answer is not to just giving more. And yes, an overhaul of the benefits system if too many are abusing it (and get more than is reasonably needed) and others genuinely receive too little.
Having lived and worked in countries including Pakistan , Yemen and South Africa and visited other similar countries, I think the generalised emotive use of the work 'starving is misplaced. I think we al agree, there are children going hungry and/or not getting sufficient nutrition
I am backing out of this thread because, whilst I understand it is an emotive subject, people are name-calling unnecessarily. No need to call any government 'scum' because they don't agree with you. People have different approaches to issues akin to good-cop/bad-cop and there are different ways. some more progressive and others a tough love approach. Like me, you might not agree with one approach but there is no need to accuse people of not caring because they don't agree with you
Or would the first thing be to call an ambulance?
If you can cook 100s of meals then great. If not, then there is a need for someone who can.
Yes, many school catering staff won't be available, good point. So employ others from the hospitality trade who are out of work or on short time.
Or just look at the solutions that Rashford is suggesting which are much better thought out and coated than mine.
Personality i also agree they are scumbags voting against feeding the most vulnerable kids, while being paid 80k, huge expenses and having your food subsidised.
Having taught during both Labour & Tory governments I can tell you that I saw no real difference except passing the buck. It's going to get worse under these chancers too.
My experiences are not alone either as my sister who has taught her entire adult life told me some absolute horror stories that included giving an age group an end of year exam that the educational board knew they would fail as it would make the following years results look like improvements being "made"
Both sides are cooking the books, lets not kid ourselves
Feed hungry children or show them “tough love“ and don’t feed them because their parent(s) can’t budget and have Sky TV? Righto...
Which of course leads on to the much more difficult question what is education and schooling actually for?
The more difficult 'data' by which educational value might be measured could be about the betterment of the wider society as a whole, not only by exam results for individuals.
On balance I also believe having 'education, education, education' as a mantra somewhere in your ideology, is better than not having it at all.
This, astounding. No one is arguing there doesn't need to be a long term fix, but punishing kids because they may or may not have shit parents. Jesus.
Cold war, diesel submarine engineer--never voted 'cept for brexit bit of a little Englander in truth and not ashamed of it.
He twittered this:
And he used the term 'black footballers' in his tweet.
Interesting his use of the plural where Marcus Rashford is the single main instigator.
Even more interesting that he felt the need to include the word 'black'.
I refer the right honourable ladies and gentleman right back to his self-description.
FFS
Done well on that budget though
However I'm guessing that to get 12 meals from a beef joint (unless the portions were minute) the original size might have been a quarter of a cow.
He hasn't factored in energy costs for cooking, or the fairy liquid for the washing up.
Plus water rates.
You can get cheaper brands then fairy liquid
Don't know how much the beef cost
So that probably puts the biscuit up to around £12 for two kilos.
He forgot to include the sauce or gravy cost.
If the bloke wants to make some kind of point by being the one to list the prices, he ought to list the price of everything.
Anyway roadkill is cheaper.
That and plain water would feed somebody for quite a long time.
I suppose the guy eats as he describes all the time every meal, there are some who would doubt it, and maybe say he is trying to deflect or dilute the issue.
Indeed it certainly is possible to live on a plain diet of rice and water, or boiled split lentils like in the Young Ones, or as I did as a student beans on toast.
Stating that, does it mean 'end of debate'?
And of course the question remains what do you do with the hungry children if the parents are such tossers they don't even provide a meal of reheated brisket in gravy, parsnips, peas and potato for, what, £1.50 per head?
Adults might be theoretically able to go to such lengths, but if they don't or can't?
I see his post as 'race baiting' as you describe it first and foremost.
He has demonstrated that in certain circumstances a meal of some kind can be put together cheaply.
His attempted point about it being related to the hungry children issue was in my opinion way off the mark, because it comes over to me as overt racism.