To win a game of football you have to score at least 1 goal.
End of.
QED. Scoring a goal is far more important than letting one in. If you never conceed, but never score either you will end up with 46 0-0 draws......46 points. Most likely get relegated.
It really is that simple. Attack is more important than defence. Score more goals than the opposition & you win. Whether that is 1-0 or 7-6.
You aren't guaranteed to pick up a point if you score. But you are guaranteed to do so if you don't concede. And you could win the League scoring just 20 goals all season if you don't concede any!
That said, I would much rather see us playing a more expansive and attacking game. But from a results perspective, two wins in our last two games and as an easy way of making money on Charlton matches, the way we are currently grinding out wins is fine.
You aren't guaranteed to win if you score. Or if you keep a clean sheet.
We've kept 7 clean sheets in our last 15 league games but were relegated and currently sit in just 11th place. Spurs haven't kept a clean sheet in any of their last 10 matches but have only lost one of them - the only game, in fact, that they failed to score in. The moral of the story is that it's no good keeping a lot of clean sheets if you can't score.
Picking up 7 points from 3 games, which would give a side a record 107 points over the course of the season, through scoring just 2 goals does make a mockery of that though!
Picked up 17 points from those 7 games with clean sheets.
To win a game of football you have to score at least 1 goal.
End of.
QED. Scoring a goal is far more important than letting one in. If you never conceed, but never score either you will end up with 46 0-0 draws......46 points. Most likely get relegated.
It really is that simple. Attack is more important than defence. Score more goals than the opposition & you win. Whether that is 1-0 or 7-6.
You aren't guaranteed to pick up a point if you score. But you are guaranteed to do so if you don't concede. And you could win the League scoring just 20 goals all season if you don't concede any!
That said, I would much rather see us playing a more expansive and attacking game. But from a results perspective, two wins in our last two games and as an easy way of making money on Charlton matches, the way we are currently grinding out wins is fine.
You aren't guaranteed to win if you score. Or if you keep a clean sheet.
And if you have just one shot on goal in every game and it happens to go in and you don't concede you won't drop a point all season.
To win a game of football you have to score at least 1 goal.
End of.
QED. Scoring a goal is far more important than letting one in. If you never conceed, but never score either you will end up with 46 0-0 draws......46 points. Most likely get relegated.
It really is that simple. Attack is more important than defence. Score more goals than the opposition & you win. Whether that is 1-0 or 7-6.
You aren't guaranteed to pick up a point if you score. But you are guaranteed to do so if you don't concede. And you could win the League scoring just 20 goals all season if you don't concede any!
That said, I would much rather see us playing a more expansive and attacking game. But from a results perspective, two wins in our last two games and as an easy way of making money on Charlton matches, the way we are currently grinding out wins is fine.
You aren't guaranteed to win if you score. Or if you keep a clean sheet.
And if you have just one shot on goal in every game and it happens to go in and you don't concede you won't drop a point all season.
If you don’t concede during the duration of the game plus injury time, I honestly believe that it is fair to suggest that the opponent will end the match with a score of nil.
Furthermore, I strongly believe that if you score a goal during a game that is not disallowed, you will have scored at least one goal.
To win a game of football you have to score at least 1 goal.
End of.
QED. Scoring a goal is far more important than letting one in. If you never conceed, but never score either you will end up with 46 0-0 draws......46 points. Most likely get relegated.
It really is that simple. Attack is more important than defence. Score more goals than the opposition & you win. Whether that is 1-0 or 7-6.
You aren't guaranteed to pick up a point if you score. But you are guaranteed to do so if you don't concede. And you could win the League scoring just 20 goals all season if you don't concede any!
That said, I would much rather see us playing a more expansive and attacking game. But from a results perspective, two wins in our last two games and as an easy way of making money on Charlton matches, the way we are currently grinding out wins is fine.
You aren't guaranteed to win if you score. Or if you keep a clean sheet.
And if you have just one shot on goal in every game and it happens to go in and you don't concede you won't drop a point all season.
Not if it's offside.
The shot can't be offside.
And in any event you can win the League without dropping a single point and without any member of your squad having had a single shot on target all season.
There is some schoolperson thinking on this thread.
Not all goals are equal.
The opening goal in any match is enormous. It could prove to be the only goal. Conversely, the fifth in a 5-0 win is entirely unnecessary and could, in the worst case, actually use up a goal that might be better employed in the subsequent match. After all, a striker is only going to get a defined number of goals in a season (as History shows us), so you don't want them being wasted away frivolously turning 4-0 into 5-0.
The same goes, of course, for consolation goals. Tucking one home after 88 mins to reduce the arrears from 0-4 to 1-4 is pointless. Hold on for ten playing minutes and make it the opening goal in the next game.
No, no. 1-0 is the perfect score. Nothing wasted. Functional. Minimalist.
There is some schoolperson thinking on this thread.
Not all goals are equal.
The opening goal in any match is enormous. It could prove to be the only goal. Conversely, the fifth in a 5-0 win is entirely unnecessary and could, in the worst case, actually use up a goal that might be better employed in the subsequent match. After all, a striker is only going to get a defined number of goals in a season (as History shows us), so you don't want them being wasted away frivolously turning 4-0 into 5-0.
The same goes, of course, for consolation goals. Tucking one home after 88 mins to reduce the arrears from 0-4 to 1-4 is pointless. Hold on for ten playing minutes and make it the opening goal in the next game.
No, no. 1-0 is the perfect score. Nothing wasted. Functional. Minimalist.
That's, word for word, what George Graham told LB when he managed him at Leeds!
Well, actually, this is what George Graham taught LB and perhaps offers a bit of an insight as to why the likes of Williams and Oztumer have struggled to get a regular starting spot:
However it was what happened next Bowyer says made him into the player, and now manager, he eventually became.
He said: “In George Graham, the club brought in someone who instilled something new in me. Who made me a better player.
“How? He dropped me. I’d been playing well: scoring goals, making goals, but I didn’t really track back. Until I did that, George said I wasn’t going to play.
“I wasn’t convinced. He won’t drop me. I’m flying, but he did. I remember one game, we were 3-2 down to Derby [County] after the first half and he brought me off the bench at half-time. We ended up winning 4-3, and I scored the winner.
“I played really well when I came on, too. Changed the game. Surely, I’ve got to start next week.
“But no. I was back on the bench. That lasted for about six weeks. In George’s mind, until I started doing the other side of the game, I was worth sacrificing for the good of the team. Yeah, I might do something good going forward, but I could let them down going the other way,
“I learned that you can’t carry anyone. It wasn’t about punishing me. He was thinking about the team.”
Being defensively solid is massive, it isn't the be all and end all because like anyone who has ever seen a game of football it is goals that win games
Having a solid defence is huge for confidence for midfielders and attacking players, knowing every mistake won't be punished by a goal leaking through encourages expansive play. A bit like watching Sarr try a 40 yard Hollywood job in a nil nil game and giving the ball away opening us up with the defensive powerhouse of Rod Fanni and that big pussy Texiera to stop a journeyman centre forward
Give me clean sheets and a well organised defence. Its a good way not to lose away from home and we really only need to draw those games anyway
There is some schoolperson thinking on this thread.
Not all goals are equal.
The opening goal in any match is enormous. It could prove to be the only goal. Conversely, the fifth in a 5-0 win is entirely unnecessary and could, in the worst case, actually use up a goal that might be better employed in the subsequent match. After all, a striker is only going to get a defined number of goals in a season (as History shows us), so you don't want them being wasted away frivolously turning 4-0 into 5-0.
The same goes, of course, for consolation goals. Tucking one home after 88 mins to reduce the arrears from 0-4 to 1-4 is pointless. Hold on for ten playing minutes and make it the opening goal in the next game.
No, no. 1-0 is the perfect score. Nothing wasted. Functional. Minimalist.
Being defensively solid is massive, it isn't the be all and end all because like anyone who has ever seen a game of football it is goals that win games
Having a solid defence is huge for confidence for midfielders and attacking players, knowing every mistake won't be punished by a goal leaking through encourages expansive play. A bit like watching Sarr try a 40 yard Hollywood job in a nil nil game and giving the ball away opening us up with the defensive powerhouse of Rod Fanni and that big pussy Texiera to stop a journeyman centre forward
Give me clean sheets and a well organised defence. Its a good way not to lose away from home and we really only need to draw those games anyway
I'd agree except for the last statement as with no crowds, home advantage doesn't exist anymore, as shown by the results since lockdown. You have to approach each game by looking at the opposition, rather than where it's being played
Travel and different pitch dimensions, gradients are a factor that benefits home sides with their familiarty. Like Blackpool and how windy that ground is in the depths of winter. They 100% use that to their advantage
You can't win a game 0-0, so from that perspective scoring goals is the most important thing for winning matches. BUT I reckon, if you keep a lot of clean sheets, you'll often nick one at the other end, even with sub-par forwards (which I don't believe we have btw). If you ship a tom of goals, it's harder to score even more game after game.
Good defenders are also cheaper and easier to acquire than prolific forwards - something that is particularly relevant when trying to succeed under a salary cap. If the defence stays as tight as it has looked the two matches, then the attacking players we have will score more than enough for us to win a lot of games by the odd goal, and 1-0 or 2-1 gets you just the same amount of points and goal difference as a 3-2 or 4-3.
I've always been if the thinking that a solid defence that ships very few goals breeds huge confidence across the whole team and will reap rewards in the final third.
How many times have we seen some of our best attacking flair hold back because if they commit themselves they put a shaky defence under pressure?
Knowing that the defence can look after itself will give a license to the likes of Doughty, Maddison etc that they don't need to hold back and can push forward at will.
There is some schoolperson thinking on this thread.
Not all goals are equal.
The opening goal in any match is enormous. It could prove to be the only goal. Conversely, the fifth in a 5-0 win is entirely unnecessary and could, in the worst case, actually use up a goal that might be better employed in the subsequent match. After all, a striker is only going to get a defined number of goals in a season (as History shows us), so you don't want them being wasted away frivolously turning 4-0 into 5-0.
The same goes, of course, for consolation goals. Tucking one home after 88 mins to reduce the arrears from 0-4 to 1-4 is pointless. Hold on for ten playing minutes and make it the opening goal in the next game.
No, no. 1-0 is the perfect score. Nothing wasted. Functional. Minimalist.
There is some schoolperson thinking on this thread.
Not all goals are equal.
The opening goal in any match is enormous. It could prove to be the only goal. Conversely, the fifth in a 5-0 win is entirely unnecessary and could, in the worst case, actually use up a goal that might be better employed in the subsequent match. After all, a striker is only going to get a defined number of goals in a season (as History shows us), so you don't want them being wasted away frivolously turning 4-0 into 5-0.
The same goes, of course, for consolation goals. Tucking one home after 88 mins to reduce the arrears from 0-4 to 1-4 is pointless. Hold on for ten playing minutes and make it the opening goal in the next game.
No, no. 1-0 is the perfect score. Nothing wasted. Functional. Minimalist.
In a strange fictional world where each team had a fixed ration of goals and they spent them as they saw fit throughout the season, you would be absolutely correct.
Back in the real world, there is no fixed limit on scoring and no direct causality between one goal and the next. You can hold on for ten minutes all you like, but it will have no more effect on your next game than it will help you fly through the air.
The table above shows Charlton's league games for the last three full seasons: 2017-18, 2018-19 and 2019-20. It shows (at least for us over those three seasons) not conceding was the best foundation for totalling a lot of points, whereas not scoring was the surest way of ensuring a poor points haul. I guess the biggest thing we can learn from this though was bleeding obvious anyway: both are important.
I like this Attack v Defence, looking at it differently (admittedly i haven't read all of the thread).... You cannot get promoted purely on clean sheets, yes the combination of the two would be ideal and you will need a mix. When not playing well grind out a win/ clean sheets.
If you didn't concede but dont score, effectively you could draw every game. At least if you score you get a chance to win (you would think)
Although there isn't really a right answer, but on the above i would prefer to be scoring than clean sheets. At this stage i think its a perfect set up to build from as we have a few new players so we will get better with creating/scoring and hopefully the defence stays solid.
The table above shows Charlton's league games for the last three full seasons: 2017-18, 2018-19 and 2019-20. It shows (at least for us over those three seasons) not conceding was the best foundation for totalling a lot of points, whereas not scoring was the surest way of ensuring a poor points haul. I guess the biggest thing we can learn from this though was bleeding obvious anyway: both are important.
That’s a good bit of research, @stig. I’m thinking that by being defensive we might usually concede 0 or 1 goal. What are our points per game when conceding 0 or 1?
Comments
1 win of 2-0
2 draws of 0-0
Absolutely wrong. Rubbish.
They could also score three, or four, or five, or more.
(sorry, just following some of the ridiculous pedantry in this thread)
Furthermore, I strongly believe that if you score a goal during a game that is not disallowed, you will have scored at least one goal.
The shot can't be offside.
And in any event you can win the League without dropping a single point and without any member of your squad having had a single shot on target all season.
Not all goals are equal.
The opening goal in any match is enormous. It could prove to be the only goal. Conversely, the fifth in a 5-0 win is entirely unnecessary and could, in the worst case, actually use up a goal that might be better employed in the subsequent match. After all, a striker is only going to get a defined number of goals in a season (as History shows us), so you don't want them being wasted away frivolously turning 4-0 into 5-0.
The same goes, of course, for consolation goals. Tucking one home after 88 mins to reduce the arrears from 0-4 to 1-4 is pointless. Hold on for ten playing minutes and make it the opening goal in the next game.
No, no. 1-0 is the perfect score. Nothing wasted. Functional. Minimalist.
Well, actually, this is what George Graham taught LB and perhaps offers a bit of an insight as to why the likes of Williams and Oztumer have struggled to get a regular starting spot:
However it was what happened next Bowyer says made him into the player, and now manager, he eventually became.
He said: “In George Graham, the club brought in someone who instilled something new in me. Who made me a better player.
“How? He dropped me. I’d been playing well: scoring goals, making goals, but I didn’t really track back. Until I did that, George said I wasn’t going to play.
“I wasn’t convinced. He won’t drop me. I’m flying, but he did. I remember one game, we were 3-2 down to Derby [County] after the first half and he brought me off the bench at half-time. We ended up winning 4-3, and I scored the winner.
“I played really well when I came on, too. Changed the game. Surely, I’ve got to start next week.
“But no. I was back on the bench. That lasted for about six weeks. In George’s mind, until I started doing the other side of the game, I was worth sacrificing for the good of the team. Yeah, I might do something good going forward, but I could let them down going the other way,
“I learned that you can’t carry anyone. It wasn’t about punishing me. He was thinking about the team.”
Having a solid defence is huge for confidence for midfielders and attacking players, knowing every mistake won't be punished by a goal leaking through encourages expansive play. A bit like watching Sarr try a 40 yard Hollywood job in a nil nil game and giving the ball away opening us up with the defensive powerhouse of Rod Fanni and that big pussy Texiera to stop a journeyman centre forward
Give me clean sheets and a well organised defence. Its a good way not to lose away from home and we really only need to draw those games anyway
Travel and different pitch dimensions, gradients are a factor that benefits home sides with their familiarty. Like Blackpool and how windy that ground is in the depths of winter. They 100% use that to their advantage
How many times have we seen some of our best attacking flair hold back because if they commit themselves they put a shaky defence under pressure?
Knowing that the defence can look after itself will give a license to the likes of Doughty, Maddison etc that they don't need to hold back and can push forward at will.
But tell me ... what gave it away?
Back in the real world, there is no fixed limit on scoring and no direct causality between one goal and the next. You can hold on for ten minutes all you like, but it will have no more effect on your next game than it will help you fly through the air.
The table above shows Charlton's league games for the last three full seasons: 2017-18, 2018-19 and 2019-20. It shows (at least for us over those three seasons) not conceding was the best foundation for totalling a lot of points, whereas not scoring was the surest way of ensuring a poor points haul. I guess the biggest thing we can learn from this though was bleeding obvious anyway: both are important.
If you didn't concede but dont score, effectively you could draw every game. At least if you score you get a chance to win (you would think)
Although there isn't really a right answer, but on the above i would prefer to be scoring than clean sheets. At this stage i think its a perfect set up to build from as we have a few new players so we will get better with creating/scoring and hopefully the defence stays solid.