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England Cricket 2021 (excluding Ashes)

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  • Thanks AA very helpful. I did glance down the Kent Schools Cricket web site and listed under the competitions there are all the usual academies or grammar schools with the occasional Beths etc.

    I assume Tonbridge, Sevenoaks etc all belong to a Public schools competition.

    I do accept there is the additional challenge of Lewisham being under the umbrella of London Schools but hopefully there will be a way forward with Bell Drummond now being President of the LSCA.

    I was aware DBD went to Millfield but thought he had also been at St Dunstans.

    I full accept many in the black community have other interests but simply refuse to accept there is no interest in cricket. It is a matter of opportunity and facilities and there is really no excuse for thé funding by the professional game for proper grass roots infrastructure.

    I am mindful many counties are dependant on the financial support of the ECB but it should not be beyond their wit to structure such support to encompass viable development pathways across its equality, diversity and inclusivity programme.




  • I have to say, it says mountains about your character if you can watch rafiq’s testimony and snort and say “yeah, but what’s in it for them, wHeReZ dA eBiDencE?!”.
    and my character mush .. I'll meet you anytime to discuss it .. I will not accept any insults ..ANYTIME  from a keyboard wanker warrior like yourself .. ANYTIME
    If you didn’t want to come across as a bully, this really isn’t the comment to make. If you can’t back up your argument without threatening physical violence, then maybe you don’t have much of an argument at all. 
  • Well that’s the point - the game has clearly got a major racism issue all throughout and now Rafiq is caught up in it. The one thing suffering now is the game of cricket - Rafiq, Vaughan, Ballance…. None of them are coming out of this well.
    well of the three, Vaughan is categorically denying using racist language TEN or so years ago .. strange how other Asian cricketers have jumped in to support accusations of racism against Vaughan, why so late in coming forwards chaps ? .. the thing is, there is NO proof that Vaughan used racist language so far,  just accusations, accusations which will always tarnish Vaughan and has left his career in ruins. He now has nowhere to go it seems
    There is proof - there’s corroborating witnesses, which in a court of law is evidence and could be argued as proof. What else do you want? A time machine to stand there and witness what Vaughan said yourself?

    Why so late in coming forward? Probably because exactly what’s happening to rafiq right now (people not believing him, digging through old social media posts etc) would happen to them. 
    who are the corroborating witnesses ? .. name them and let's have a forensic check into their social media history..  and Rafiq's credibility is seriously undermined by his jolly little off the cuff anti semitic texts from when he was a mere boy, posts that he knew were highly offensive and he took pains to delete ..
    the outcome of this affair will be , as I have outlined in the original post, that Rafiq will always be a shining paragon of virtue, a man who was  brave enough to take on the establishment, he'll  always be a hero despite his anti semitism, whereas Vaughan, even if nothing is proved  against him, will  almost certainly never work for  a major newspaper or broadcaster again. Let's hear Vaughan's accusers whilst they're under oath and see how they get on, 
    England spinner adil Rashid is one. You’ve just shown why exactly people won’t come forward “let’s have a forensic check of their social media history”. 

    You haven’t even answered the question, what more proof do you want, above corroborating witnesses?
  • Well that’s the point - the game has clearly got a major racism issue all throughout and now Rafiq is caught up in it. The one thing suffering now is the game of cricket - Rafiq, Vaughan, Ballance…. None of them are coming out of this well.
    well of the three, Vaughan is categorically denying using racist language TEN or so years ago .. strange how other Asian cricketers have jumped in to support accusations of racism against Vaughan, why so late in coming forwards chaps ? .. the thing is, there is NO proof that Vaughan used racist language so far,  just accusations, accusations which will always tarnish Vaughan and has left his career in ruins. He now has nowhere to go it seems
    There is proof - there’s corroborating witnesses, which in a court of law is evidence and could be argued as proof. What else do you want? A time machine to stand there and witness what Vaughan said yourself?

    Why so late in coming forward? Probably because exactly what’s happening to rafiq right now (people not believing him, digging through old social media posts etc) would happen to them. 
    who are the corroborating witnesses ? .. name them and let's have a forensic check into their social media history..  and Rafiq's credibility is seriously undermined by his jolly little off the cuff anti semitic texts from when he was a mere boy, posts that he knew were highly offensive and he took pains to delete ..
    the outcome of this affair will be , as I have outlined in the original post, that Rafiq will always be a shining paragon of virtue, a man who was  brave enough to take on the establishment, he'll  always be a hero despite his anti semitism, whereas Vaughan, even if nothing is proved  against him, will  almost certainly never work for  a major newspaper or broadcaster again. Let's hear Vaughan's accusers whilst they're under oath and see how they get on, 
    England spinner adil Rashid is one. You’ve just shown why exactly people won’t come forward “let’s have a forensic check of their social media history”. 

    You haven’t even answered the question, what more proof do you want, above corroborating witnesses?
    Rashid did hear it. As did another but the fourth player, Ajmal Shahzad didn't. That doesn't mean it wasn't said but he didn't hear it. Or he heard it but didn't think of it being a racist comment at the time so he didn't commit it to memory.

    And yet Shahzad's experiences are in stark contrast to those of Rafiq's:

    'I've never experienced racism myself in cricket. You never want to hear the things that Azeem said he experienced. You wouldn't wish them on anyone 

    'But I can only go off my own experiences and I had a good time at Yorkshire and the people were good to me. 

    'It was such a good environment that I actually picked up the phone to (director of cricket) Martyn Moxon and (coach) Andrew Gale in December and asked if I could come and get involved in their practices and they welcomed me with open arms.'

    This really is the complete opposite to Rafiq's experiences. Could part of the issue be that Rafiq wasn't an easy character to deal with? As a 19 year old he clearly had strong opinions on the world and specifically coaches and other players (Abrahams and the unnamed Derbyshire player). Coaches will react in different ways to that and being racist is certainly not the right way to go.

    Again, it is clear that YCCC is a racist institution. Unfortunately, though, as I've said previously, there are people being dragged into this who are no more guilty than Rafiq himself. In fact, some are mentioned in the report because they stood around and did nothing when these things were going on. They should have, of course, but that would single themselves out. So they didn't. And neither did Rafiq himself. For the very same reasons.  



  • Wonder what dear old Dicky Bird makes of this unholy mess ? 
    What Dickie from Barnsley?
    I really don't think we want to know.

    Let's face it many from Yorkshire give the narrative they despise anyone not from Yorkshire, so heaven knows what it's like if not even English.

    (I have been to Yorkshire following CAFC on very many occasions, so I have formed an impression).
    oh so chants like 'dirty northern bastards', 'fucking northern monkeys' and 'this place is a shithole, I want to go home' are just banter whereas Yorkies making similar comments are all racists and insular bigots.
     If you're basing your comments on the experience of a few flying visits to a few towns and cities with a pub stop on the way, you should really get out more, see more of real life
  • Leuth said:
    Yeah he said some stupid, racist shit in conversation with a friend 10 years ago, and should be rightly castigated, but the greater evil here is surely the culture of institutional, bullying racism inflicted directly onto its targets. Don't lose the story.

    Leuth has this spot on. This will now get lost by the majority. 
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  • Well that’s the point - the game has clearly got a major racism issue all throughout and now Rafiq is caught up in it. The one thing suffering now is the game of cricket - Rafiq, Vaughan, Ballance…. None of them are coming out of this well.
    well of the three, Vaughan is categorically denying using racist language TEN or so years ago .. strange how other Asian cricketers have jumped in to support accusations of racism against Vaughan, why so late in coming forwards chaps ? .. the thing is, there is NO proof that Vaughan used racist language so far,  just accusations, accusations which will always tarnish Vaughan and has left his career in ruins. He now has nowhere to go it seems
    There is proof - there’s corroborating witnesses, which in a court of law is evidence and could be argued as proof. What else do you want? A time machine to stand there and witness what Vaughan said yourself?

    Why so late in coming forward? Probably because exactly what’s happening to rafiq right now (people not believing him, digging through old social media posts etc) would happen to them. 
    who are the corroborating witnesses ? .. name them and let's have a forensic check into their social media history..  and Rafiq's credibility is seriously undermined by his jolly little off the cuff anti semitic texts from when he was a mere boy, posts that he knew were highly offensive and he took pains to delete ..
    the outcome of this affair will be , as I have outlined in the original post, that Rafiq will always be a shining paragon of virtue, a man who was  brave enough to take on the establishment, he'll  always be a hero despite his anti semitism, whereas Vaughan, even if nothing is proved  against him, will  almost certainly never work for  a major newspaper or broadcaster again. Let's hear Vaughan's accusers whilst they're under oath and see how they get on, 
    England spinner adil Rashid is one. You’ve just shown why exactly people won’t come forward “let’s have a forensic check of their social media history”. 

    You haven’t even answered the question, what more proof do you want, above corroborating witnesses?
    If Rashid puts his hand on the Koran (I assume his chosen religion is Islam) and swears he saw and heard Vaughan make racist remarks then I will accept his word .. otherwise, in my eyes he will just be another jumper on the band wagon.
    I am sure that many people, cricketers, shopkeepers, accountants, bus drivers, indeed all trades and none of Asian extraction regularly make disparaging and racist comments about white and black people. The issue is that if these comments are made in (e.g.) Urdu, very few English people would be able to understand such insults
    You have zero proof to back this up. You seem to have a very dim view of people of south Asian heritage - they’re both liars making stuff up about racism and now they’re racist themselves - you have zero proof of either of these. 

    What makes you think people are jumping on a bandwagon and making stuff up? Is it because you would do the same thing in their position? Or is it because you have a terrible view on people from south Asian backgrounds?
    To say having zero proof to back this up is completely correct. Apart from rafiq making disparaging comments about white people, Jews and people of African heritage!
  • Well that’s the point - the game has clearly got a major racism issue all throughout and now Rafiq is caught up in it. The one thing suffering now is the game of cricket - Rafiq, Vaughan, Ballance…. None of them are coming out of this well.
    well of the three, Vaughan is categorically denying using racist language TEN or so years ago .. strange how other Asian cricketers have jumped in to support accusations of racism against Vaughan, why so late in coming forwards chaps ? .. the thing is, there is NO proof that Vaughan used racist language so far,  just accusations, accusations which will always tarnish Vaughan and has left his career in ruins. He now has nowhere to go it seems
    There is proof - there’s corroborating witnesses, which in a court of law is evidence and could be argued as proof. What else do you want? A time machine to stand there and witness what Vaughan said yourself?

    Why so late in coming forward? Probably because exactly what’s happening to rafiq right now (people not believing him, digging through old social media posts etc) would happen to them. 
    who are the corroborating witnesses ? .. name them and let's have a forensic check into their social media history..  and Rafiq's credibility is seriously undermined by his jolly little off the cuff anti semitic texts from when he was a mere boy, posts that he knew were highly offensive and he took pains to delete ..
    the outcome of this affair will be , as I have outlined in the original post, that Rafiq will always be a shining paragon of virtue, a man who was  brave enough to take on the establishment, he'll  always be a hero despite his anti semitism, whereas Vaughan, even if nothing is proved  against him, will  almost certainly never work for  a major newspaper or broadcaster again. Let's hear Vaughan's accusers whilst they're under oath and see how they get on, 
    England spinner adil Rashid is one. You’ve just shown why exactly people won’t come forward “let’s have a forensic check of their social media history”. 

    You haven’t even answered the question, what more proof do you want, above corroborating witnesses?
    If Rashid puts his hand on the Koran (I assume his chosen religion is Islam) and swears he saw and heard Vaughan make racist remarks then I will accept his word .. otherwise, in my eyes he will just be another jumper on the band wagon.
    I am sure that many people, cricketers, shopkeepers, accountants, bus drivers, indeed all trades and none of Asian extraction regularly make disparaging and racist comments about white and black people. The issue is that if these comments are made in (e.g.) Urdu, very few English people would be able to understand such insults
    You have zero proof to back this up. You seem to have a very dim view of people of south Asian heritage - they’re both liars making stuff up about racism and now they’re racist themselves - you have zero proof of either of these. 

    What makes you think people are jumping on a bandwagon and making stuff up? Is it because you would do the same thing in their position? Or is it because you have a terrible view on people from south Asian backgrounds?
    To say having zero proof to back this up is completely correct. Apart from rafiq making disparaging comments about white people, Jews and people of African heritage!
    So a 19 year old rafiq represents the whole south asian community, is that correct?
  • Well that’s the point - the game has clearly got a major racism issue all throughout and now Rafiq is caught up in it. The one thing suffering now is the game of cricket - Rafiq, Vaughan, Ballance…. None of them are coming out of this well.
    well of the three, Vaughan is categorically denying using racist language TEN or so years ago .. strange how other Asian cricketers have jumped in to support accusations of racism against Vaughan, why so late in coming forwards chaps ? .. the thing is, there is NO proof that Vaughan used racist language so far,  just accusations, accusations which will always tarnish Vaughan and has left his career in ruins. He now has nowhere to go it seems
    There is proof - there’s corroborating witnesses, which in a court of law is evidence and could be argued as proof. What else do you want? A time machine to stand there and witness what Vaughan said yourself?

    Why so late in coming forward? Probably because exactly what’s happening to rafiq right now (people not believing him, digging through old social media posts etc) would happen to them. 
    who are the corroborating witnesses ? .. name them and let's have a forensic check into their social media history..  and Rafiq's credibility is seriously undermined by his jolly little off the cuff anti semitic texts from when he was a mere boy, posts that he knew were highly offensive and he took pains to delete ..
    the outcome of this affair will be , as I have outlined in the original post, that Rafiq will always be a shining paragon of virtue, a man who was  brave enough to take on the establishment, he'll  always be a hero despite his anti semitism, whereas Vaughan, even if nothing is proved  against him, will  almost certainly never work for  a major newspaper or broadcaster again. Let's hear Vaughan's accusers whilst they're under oath and see how they get on, 
    England spinner adil Rashid is one. You’ve just shown why exactly people won’t come forward “let’s have a forensic check of their social media history”. 

    You haven’t even answered the question, what more proof do you want, above corroborating witnesses?
    If Rashid puts his hand on the Koran (I assume his chosen religion is Islam) and swears he saw and heard Vaughan make racist remarks then I will accept his word .. otherwise, in my eyes he will just be another jumper on the band wagon.
    I am sure that many people, cricketers, shopkeepers, accountants, bus drivers, indeed all trades and none of Asian extraction regularly make disparaging and racist comments about white and black people. The issue is that if these comments are made in (e.g.) Urdu, very few English people would be able to understand such insults
    You have zero proof to back this up. You seem to have a very dim view of people of south Asian heritage - they’re both liars making stuff up about racism and now they’re racist themselves - you have zero proof of either of these. 

    What makes you think people are jumping on a bandwagon and making stuff up? Is it because you would do the same thing in their position? Or is it because you have a terrible view on people from south Asian backgrounds?
    To say having zero proof to back this up is completely correct. Apart from rafiq making disparaging comments about white people, Jews and people of African heritage!
    So a 19 year old rafiq represents the whole south asian community, is that correct?
    Why is his age relevant? He obviously doesn’t represent the whole south Asian community (zzzzz) but he represents himself & he himself is guilty of racist comments.
  • edited November 2021
    Well that’s the point - the game has clearly got a major racism issue all throughout and now Rafiq is caught up in it. The one thing suffering now is the game of cricket - Rafiq, Vaughan, Ballance…. None of them are coming out of this well.
    well of the three, Vaughan is categorically denying using racist language TEN or so years ago .. strange how other Asian cricketers have jumped in to support accusations of racism against Vaughan, why so late in coming forwards chaps ? .. the thing is, there is NO proof that Vaughan used racist language so far,  just accusations, accusations which will always tarnish Vaughan and has left his career in ruins. He now has nowhere to go it seems
    There is proof - there’s corroborating witnesses, which in a court of law is evidence and could be argued as proof. What else do you want? A time machine to stand there and witness what Vaughan said yourself?

    Why so late in coming forward? Probably because exactly what’s happening to rafiq right now (people not believing him, digging through old social media posts etc) would happen to them. 
    who are the corroborating witnesses ? .. name them and let's have a forensic check into their social media history..  and Rafiq's credibility is seriously undermined by his jolly little off the cuff anti semitic texts from when he was a mere boy, posts that he knew were highly offensive and he took pains to delete ..
    the outcome of this affair will be , as I have outlined in the original post, that Rafiq will always be a shining paragon of virtue, a man who was  brave enough to take on the establishment, he'll  always be a hero despite his anti semitism, whereas Vaughan, even if nothing is proved  against him, will  almost certainly never work for  a major newspaper or broadcaster again. Let's hear Vaughan's accusers whilst they're under oath and see how they get on, 
    England spinner adil Rashid is one. You’ve just shown why exactly people won’t come forward “let’s have a forensic check of their social media history”. 

    You haven’t even answered the question, what more proof do you want, above corroborating witnesses?
    If Rashid puts his hand on the Koran (I assume his chosen religion is Islam) and swears he saw and heard Vaughan make racist remarks then I will accept his word .. otherwise, in my eyes he will just be another jumper on the band wagon.
    I am sure that many people, cricketers, shopkeepers, accountants, bus drivers, indeed all trades and none of Asian extraction regularly make disparaging and racist comments about white and black people. The issue is that if these comments are made in (e.g.) Urdu, very few English people would be able to understand such insults
    You have zero proof to back this up. You seem to have a very dim view of people of south Asian heritage - they’re both liars making stuff up about racism and now they’re racist themselves - you have zero proof of either of these. 

    What makes you think people are jumping on a bandwagon and making stuff up? Is it because you would do the same thing in their position? Or is it because you have a terrible view on people from south Asian backgrounds?
    To say having zero proof to back this up is completely correct. Apart from rafiq making disparaging comments about white people, Jews and people of African heritage!
    So a 19 year old rafiq represents the whole south asian community, is that correct?
    Why is his age relevant? He obviously doesn’t represent the whole south Asian community (zzzzz) but he represents himself & he himself is guilty of racist comments.
    His age is relevant because he was 19. The comments for which he's issued an apology - is that not good enough? Should he be cancelled and never work again for it? I think you're just jumping on a bandwagon here. 

    I was talking in relevance to the south asian community, that Lincs has said "many" of whom have made racist comments in their own language - there's zero proof of this. A 19 year old's social media comments are not, as you accept, relevant to the whole south asian community.
  • Being a racist does not prevent you from also suffering from racism.

    But it weakens your argument as to how much it affected you
  • Thanks AA very helpful. I did glance down the Kent Schools Cricket web site and listed under the competitions there are all the usual academies or grammar schools with the occasional Beths etc.

    I assume Tonbridge, Sevenoaks etc all belong to a Public schools competition.

    I do accept there is the additional challenge of Lewisham being under the umbrella of London Schools but hopefully there will be a way forward with Bell Drummond now being President of the LSCA.

    I was aware DBD went to Millfield but thought he had also been at St Dunstans.

    I full accept many in the black community have other interests but simply refuse to accept there is no interest in cricket. It is a matter of opportunity and facilities and there is really no excuse for thé funding by the professional game for proper grass roots infrastructure.

    I am mindful many counties are dependant on the financial support of the ECB but it should not be beyond their wit to structure such support to encompass viable development pathways across its equality, diversity and inclusivity programme.




    To put the example of DBD in perspective he was born into a first generation Caribbean cricketing family, his father Percy Drummond was chairman of catford wanderers for a long period...he was fated to play cricket rather than anything else ..so not really someone who was a product of a system 
  • On a war footing eh?
  • Fuck what he is saying, we get him. There's got to be dirt. There's always dirt
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  • Michael Vaughan has made some well placed phone calls…
  • We mentioned previously the lack of youngsters that are playing cricket from an Afro-Caribbean background. Anyone who is watching BT's South Of The River cannot fail to recognise how influenced young athletes in South London are being inspired by those who have made it big in football so have opted to take that journey instead - the cages they play in are accessible, it's free with minimal equipment outlay and it doesn't take any organising.

    The other aspect is the lack of inspiration coming from the West Indies. Anyone of a certain age could reel off dozens of icons of the game from past eras. Who do they have now? Their red and white ball sides are totally different with just Chase and Holder in the current Test team that played in the WC - and Holder wasn't even in the WC original squad. In the current game SL have set them 348 to win. And they at one point slipped to 18-6.

    Why would you want to be a Kraigg Braithwaite or Jermaine Blackwood when you could be the next Jadon Sancho, Joe Gomez, Tammy Abraham or Ademola Lookman? These are all people that the young lads can relate to as they, invariably, came from the very same estates, used the same facilities and played for the same youth teams.
  • We mentioned previously the lack of youngsters that are playing cricket from an Afro-Caribbean background. Anyone who is watching BT's South Of The River cannot fail to recognise how influenced young athletes in South London are being inspired by those who have made it big in football so have opted to take that journey instead - the cages they play in are accessible, it's free with minimal equipment outlay and it doesn't take any organising.

    The other aspect is the lack of inspiration coming from the West Indies. Anyone of a certain age could reel off dozens of icons of the game from past eras. Who do they have now? Their red and white ball sides are totally different with just Chase and Holder in the current Test team that played in the WC - and Holder wasn't even in the WC original squad. In the current game SL have set them 348 to win. And they at one point slipped to 18-6.

    Why would you want to be a Kraigg Braithwaite or Jermaine Blackwood when you could be the next Jadon Sancho, Joe Gomez, Tammy Abraham or Ademola Lookman? These are all people that the young lads can relate to as they, invariably, came from the very same estates, used the same facilities and played for the same youth teams.
    Great Summary 


  • Director of cricket Martyn Moxon, coach Andrew Gale and all members of the coaching staff are among 16 people to have left Yorkshire amid the racism scandal.
  • https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59545490

     Darren Gough has been appointed as Yorkshire's interim managing director of cricket until the end of the 2022 season. It also means that he's stepped down from Talksport
  • https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59545490

     Darren Gough has been appointed as Yorkshire's interim managing director of cricket until the end of the 2022 season. It also means that he's stepped down from Talksport
    Every cloud....
  • Just saw this stat on BBC from Andy Zaltzman: Alex Carey is making his Test debut behind the stumps for Australia. The last seven times an Australia wicketkeeper has made his debut in an Ashes Test, going back to the 1950s, England have won the series. 


  • Just saw this stat on BBC from Andy Zaltzman: Alex Carey is making his Test debut behind the stumps for Australia. The last seven times an Australia wicketkeeper has made his debut in an Ashes Test, going back to the 1950s, England have won the series. 



  • Good game going on in S A v India - S A need 240 to win the match as they start the final innings
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