Yesterday, we saw a forward with no defensive pedigree
whatsoever being played in a defensive position which created the weak link in
the chain. Had he been picked to play as a winger, Gunter would have been
positioned differently and whilst he may still have been beaten, he is a full
back with 99 caps so we could reasonably expect better defending. Bowyer created
a weak link in the chain and it is mystifying. Somebody like Marshall who
actually showed some defensive qualities when he was with us, fair enough. But
Smyth has not displayed any firm evidence he could play in that position. That
isn’t being critical of Smyth btw. He is what he is. But playing him there was
plain stupid. No other word for it.
This all day long. I said it on the match thread just after kick off when I heard it was 5 at the back with Smyth playing right wing back. Nooooo. I'm.all for playing 5 at the back & think it might be our best option......but that's with Maatsen on the left and either Gunter or Matthews on the right. The wing backs need to be defenders first & foremost. Or at least have a defensive mindset. Smyth is a striker-cum-winger & probably has never played in defense EVER. We have seen previously that both Matthews & Gunter can deliver good crosses - their crossing might actually be better than Smyth's...!
For information purposes for those of us who obviously missed out on some other unknown thread: Does Chuks have allergic rhinitis, anemia, depression, fibromyalgia, chronic kidney, liver or lung disease? Just so we know why playing 90 minutes is so heroic for him. Thanks.
The physios believe that when he plays past 70 minutes he enters a 'danger zone' where muscular injuries are very likely. Nothing to do with his actual fitness.
The second half performance saved a lot of the players credibility and probably Bowyer's job .. some great finishing by both sides .. central defence is still a MAJOR worry for us
Yesterday, we saw a forward with no defensive pedigree
whatsoever being played in a defensive position which created the weak link in
the chain. Had he been picked to play as a winger, Gunter would have been
positioned differently and whilst he may still have been beaten, he is a full
back with 99 caps so we could reasonably expect better defending. Bowyer created
a weak link in the chain and it is mystifying. Somebody like Marshall who
actually showed some defensive qualities when he was with us, fair enough. But
Smyth has not displayed any firm evidence he could play in that position. That
isn’t being critical of Smyth btw. He is what he is. But playing him there was
plain stupid. No other word for it.
This all day long. I said it on the match thread just after kick off when I heard it was 5 at the back with Smyth playing right wing back. Nooooo. I'm.all for playing 5 at the back & think it might be our best option......but that's with Maatsen on the left and either Gunter or Matthews on the right. The wing backs need to be defenders first & foremost. Or at least have a defensive mindset. Smyth is a striker-cum-winger & probably has never played in defense EVER. We have seen previously that both Matthews & Gunter can deliver good crosses - their crossing might actually be better than Smyth's...!
I'm still struggling to work out Paul Smyth's position, and why we were so keen to sign him last season.
To me he seems the classic sort of player who will do a job, without being great anywhere. He's not prolific enough to be a central striker alongside Chuks, his crossing is nothing special if you play him wide midfield in a 442/424, and he's too lightweight to be in one of the wide positions in the diamond.
His best position is probably as one of the wide forwards in a 433 (as with the Accrington game where he looked quite good) but that's not one of Bowyer's favoured formations.
I'll start by saying Bowyer got it wrong with starting Smyth at RWB, but he will know that better than anyone. Once we went to basics we looked a lot better and played some great football imo, JFC who I usually accuse of being average was making things really tick, like a charity shop Toni Kroos. Aneke was terrific, could have scored 4 or more genuinely, Williams energetic. I could go on but we all saw the same game. Special mention for Oshi, solid game and has earned the right to start. Pearce and Gilbey only negatives, Pearce is alarmingly panicked for such an experienced player, late challenges, typical hoofs and on a rewatch it was a yellow, can't fault his effort but it was one. Gilbey seems really poor, I won't write him off yet cause he put in some good tackles and showed some good awareness but he just doesn't offer enough for me.
Personally I am happy with the result as it's shut down a few comments on here. Clearly the dressing room is not lost, there is fight in this team, now you can say 'The players don't wanna lose!' but that's nonsense as some of you are willing to blame Lee for his tactics, he also needs credit where it's due, he has the respect of these players. We also showed we can play attractive football with the right players on the pitch, it's just our defense that is absolutely shoddy atm.
Finally I'll wrap it up with this & I'm not bothered how it comes across, to anyone messaging Sandgaard on twitter or any other social media platform trying to push Lee out, you are pathetic and I am embarrassed to be associated with you by the team I support.
We are well in this, 100% behind Bowyer and the lads, on to the next one
Only one person in the country would have played Smyth at wing back. Of course we can blame Bowyer for the tactics. Or perhaps Smyth just decided he fancied it once on the pitch
Of course you can, even I have, so has Lee. What I am saying is he surely deserves credit for rectifying his mistakes and salvaging a draw when we were 3-1 down. You could tell we had a bit about us tonight.
I am fairly confident had we lost tonight this thread would be a bit more active
No he doesn't get credit for two reasons. 1) It was a simply stupid idea.
2) It was clear after 12 minutes Smyth was lacking everything needed to defend wide right constantly. Why wait until half bloody time to correct it.
So he is moaned at for not being ambitious enough, he tries to make us attacking as possible and it doesn't pay off, he changes it up and gets a result, that doesn't deserve credit?
Maybe cause it wasn't entirely Smyth's fault, other people were in the wrong as well, maybe it was something that looked good in training
It's become clear that people are just going to be negative now no matter what and be critical of Bowyer.
Last night definitely had more positives than negatives in our circumstance, if people can't appreciate that then I am truly baffled that they decided to pick Charlton to support in the first place
To be frank, no it doesn't.
When you're making a decision that dumbfounding, you don't get any credit for rectifying it. That goes for any task, in any job, but especially not in football when it takes you 3 goals to realise it's not working.
Watching the game it was almost as if someone had flicked a switch - we suddenly started to chase and close them down after the start of the second half - good to see some fight and some desire , never good to let in goals but theirs were particularly painful to watch . Onwards +
Only 17 as well, imagine he will have plenty of interest
For those of you that didn't see my remarks at HT on the match thread, Baah was in the Palace academy from 2013-2017, released and then was under the successful Kinetic foundation in London from 2017-2019, where Joe Aribo spent time after having various trials at many academies. Joe left the foundation to join Staines before joining CAFC. Joe turned up as a CB at the foundation, before being converted into a mid fielder. Josh Maja the Lewisham born lad who left Sunderland for France and Norrington-Davies who was transferred to Stoke yesterday from Sheffield United via a loan at Luton were other Kinetic foundation boys.
Got to speak about all the talent that was picked up by kinetic when released by academies by the manager of Whyteleafe (8th tier team) who is the part time Manager but full time boss of the foundation.
He told me(back in November) that Rochdale had a great talent in Baah and expected him to prove it. 21 year old Norrington-Davies spent a season on loan at Rochdale.
Baah showing his talent against cafc wasn't what I wanted to see ! A hefty challenge by anyone early doors would've been my advice but what do I know !
He played 1 match for Whyteleafe before Rochdale picked him up at Just 16 but I was at the valley so never saw him play.
As Whyteleafe may not survive as no games since playing on November 5th ( the season may be cancelled) I may never find out why Rochdale ?
Watching the game it was almost as if someone had flicked a switch - we suddenly started to chase and close them down after the start of the second half - good to see some fight and some desire , never good to let in goals but theirs were particularly painful to watch . Onwards +
One thing that was clear throughout was that defensively Rochdale were an accident waiting to happen. Far inferior to Accrington.
I'll start by saying Bowyer got it wrong with starting Smyth at RWB, but he will know that better than anyone. Once we went to basics we looked a lot better and played some great football imo, JFC who I usually accuse of being average was making things really tick, like a charity shop Toni Kroos. Aneke was terrific, could have scored 4 or more genuinely, Williams energetic. I could go on but we all saw the same game. Special mention for Oshi, solid game and has earned the right to start. Pearce and Gilbey only negatives, Pearce is alarmingly panicked for such an experienced player, late challenges, typical hoofs and on a rewatch it was a yellow, can't fault his effort but it was one. Gilbey seems really poor, I won't write him off yet cause he put in some good tackles and showed some good awareness but he just doesn't offer enough for me.
Personally I am happy with the result as it's shut down a few comments on here. Clearly the dressing room is not lost, there is fight in this team, now you can say 'The players don't wanna lose!' but that's nonsense as some of you are willing to blame Lee for his tactics, he also needs credit where it's due, he has the respect of these players. We also showed we can play attractive football with the right players on the pitch, it's just our defense that is absolutely shoddy atm.
Finally I'll wrap it up with this & I'm not bothered how it comes across, to anyone messaging Sandgaard on twitter or any other social media platform trying to push Lee out, you are pathetic and I am embarrassed to be associated with you by the team I support.
We are well in this, 100% behind Bowyer and the lads, on to the next one
Only one person in the country would have played Smyth at wing back. Of course we can blame Bowyer for the tactics. Or perhaps Smyth just decided he fancied it once on the pitch
Of course you can, even I have, so has Lee. What I am saying is he surely deserves credit for rectifying his mistakes and salvaging a draw when we were 3-1 down. You could tell we had a bit about us tonight.
I am fairly confident had we lost tonight this thread would be a bit more active
I'm sorry but making a bad tactical decision and then reversing it hardly deserves credit. We'd let in 3 goals before we switched to 4 at the back
Yes we looked much better in the second half, but that's because we had better players than Rochdale out there, rather than because of any tactical masterstroke. There won't be many better strike duos in this division than Chuks and Ronnie
So had we just gone 2 down playing 442 from the start and made the same comeback what would the verdict on Lee be today?
Credit where credit is due, Bowyer had an idea, it went wrong, he rectified it and we got a draw and a we could have probably won with the 2 or 3 chances we had
But we didn’t go 2-0 down playing 442? It’s a non-argument.
We went 2-0 down because of a ridiculous team selection and some lovely finishing.
The team got Bowyer out of it with a good second half performance but it never should have got to that and, ultimately, a draw isn’t good enough.
Only 17 as well, imagine he will have plenty of interest
For those of you that didn't see my remarks at HT on the match thread, Baah was in the Palace academy from 2013-2017, released and then was under the successful Kinetic foundation in London from 2017-2019, where Joe Aribo spent time after having various trials at many academies. Joe left the foundation to join Staines before joining CAFC. Joe turned up as a CB at the foundation, before being converted into a mid fielder. Josh Maja the Lewisham born lad who left Sunderland for France and Norrington-Davies who was transferred to Stoke yesterday from Sheffield United via a loan at Luton were other Kinetic foundation boys.
Got to speak about all the talent that was picked up by kinetic when released by academies by the manager of Whyteleafe (8th tier team) who is the part time Manager but full time boss of the foundation.
He told me(back in November) that Rochdale had a great talent in Baah and expected him to prove it. 21 year old Norrington-Davies spent a season on loan at Rochdale.
Baah showing his talent against cafc wasn't what I wanted to see ! A hefty challenge by anyone early doors would've been my advice but what do I know !
He played 1 match for Whyteleafe before Rochdale picked him up at Just 16 but I was at the valley so never saw him play.
As Whyteleafe may not survive as no games since playing on November 5th ( the season may be cancelled) I may never find out why Rochdale ?
I know our defence is poor but yesterday a lot of our problems in the first half was due to midfielders not tracking runs, not winning challenges and generally poor decision making.
We haven't really got out midfield right since our long injury list last season. We are crying out for a bit of muscle and the occasional reducer tackle when an opposition player gets arsenal. We only really have Pratters to do that and he is not particularly good at it.
I sometimes think that LB thinks all slight players are as 'hard' as he is, they aren't and we get bullied.
Only 17 as well, imagine he will have plenty of interest
For those of you that didn't see my remarks at HT on the match thread, Baah was in the Palace academy from 2013-2017, released and then was under the successful Kinetic foundation in London from 2017-2019, where Joe Aribo spent time after having various trials at many academies. Joe left the foundation to join Staines before joining CAFC. Joe turned up as a CB at the foundation, before being converted into a mid fielder. Josh Maja the Lewisham born lad who left Sunderland for France and Norrington-Davies who was transferred to Stoke yesterday from Sheffield United via a loan at Luton were other Kinetic foundation boys.
Got to speak about all the talent that was picked up by kinetic when released by academies by the manager of Whyteleafe (8th tier team) who is the part time Manager but full time boss of the foundation.
He told me(back in November) that Rochdale had a great talent in Baah and expected him to prove it. 21 year old Norrington-Davies spent a season on loan at Rochdale.
Baah showing his talent against cafc wasn't what I wanted to see ! A hefty challenge by anyone early doors would've been my advice but what do I know !
He played 1 match for Whyteleafe before Rochdale picked him up at Just 16 but I was at the valley so never saw him play.
As Whyteleafe may not survive as no games since playing on November 5th ( the season may be cancelled) I may never find out why Rochdale ?
How many more times, Sam your number one priority when you are out and about scouting is to report back to the club key inside information like that you had on the lad Baah. So for that reason I am placing last night's draw firmly at your door! 😉
But he played near enough a full season for MK Dons the season before we bought him!
There was some story told about the time Chuks first signed for us, that with promotion to the Championship, our training sessions had increased in intensity ..... and his body couldn't cope with that increase in intensity.
So there you have it, Bowyer broke Aneke. Nailed on. FACT!
Only 17 as well, imagine he will have plenty of interest
For those of you that didn't see my remarks at HT on the match thread, Baah was in the Palace academy from 2013-2017, released and then was under the successful Kinetic foundation in London from 2017-2019, where Joe Aribo spent time after having various trials at many academies. Joe left the foundation to join Staines before joining CAFC. Joe turned up as a CB at the foundation, before being converted into a mid fielder. Josh Maja the Lewisham born lad who left Sunderland for France and Norrington-Davies who was transferred to Stoke yesterday from Sheffield United via a loan at Luton were other Kinetic foundation boys.
Got to speak about all the talent that was picked up by kinetic when released by academies by the manager of Whyteleafe (8th tier team) who is the part time Manager but full time boss of the foundation.
He told me(back in November) that Rochdale had a great talent in Baah and expected him to prove it. 21 year old Norrington-Davies spent a season on loan at Rochdale.
Baah showing his talent against cafc wasn't what I wanted to see ! A hefty challenge by anyone early doors would've been my advice but what do I know !
He played 1 match for Whyteleafe before Rochdale picked him up at Just 16 but I was at the valley so never saw him play.
As Whyteleafe may not survive as no games since playing on November 5th ( the season may be cancelled) I may never find out why Rochdale ?
How many more times, Sam your number one priority when you are out and about scouting is to report back to the club key inside information like that you had on the lad Baah. So for that reason I am placing last night's draw firmly at your door! 😉
@soapboxsam why haven't you got a hot line to Steve Gallen/Avory or any other Steve?
In fact, who needs Steve Gallen when you are on your soap box?
Bowyer has no idea of his best team or his best formation. Making it up as he goes along. Shocking
He does have an idea of his best team......unfortunately a lot of it is in the treatment room......or has that point escaped you?
I thought managers were paid to manage when there were injuries?
Erm.....if the players you are left with aren’t as good/reliable as those injured you can hardly expect anything else. Or are you looking for miracles?
The last time I can remember us drawing 4-4 was Burnley A @1976.
The second half said to me that I don't think Bowyer has lost the dressing room. If you're 2-4 down at HT to Rochdale and want the manager sacked, I can't see why you'd fight back to 4-4 and nearly win the game.
I have much sympathy for Bowyer re having lost half the team and only being able to replace them from what other clubs had left unsigned.
I also have a lot of sympathy for all the injuries (although do wonder why we get so many injuries in training).
But I do have an issue with how he is setting up the players he does have. I really don't believe good managers should be shipping 2 goals a game and 4 in the first half to Rochdale.
It wasn't down to luck, it was quite predictable when these players were given so much space.
Why was Smyth at right wing back instead of Matthews?
Why was Oshilaja the right footed centre half spending so much time in the first half on the left wing?
Gilbey gave Lund to much room and turned his back on the first.
Gunter didn't close their lad down & turned his back on the second.
I've forgotten the 3rd (or 2nd), but the 4th the "wall" was poorly set up and then moved out the way.
So at least 3 of their goals were aided by us getting out of the way, rather than blocking. Is that down to Bowyer or the players?
Amos could maybe have done better all round for the 4th. Gunter is looking dodgy, but will probably be CH on Saturday. Oshilaja was good (not sure about being on left wing) apart from one first half cock up. Pearce is looking very ropey. Maatsen is not looking reliable, whilst he puts in a lot of effort. Williams was ok. JFC played well, scored, but still made a couple of cock ups. Gilbey was ok Smyth showed flashes but doesn't contribute enough Aneke was excellent Millar was very good Schwartz looks like a player Morgan did ok and was better than Gilbey Washington had a chance but as so often went the wrong way, cutting outside instead of inside.
I was worried about relegation at half time and hoping for promotion on 80 mins. At FT I think we could end up anywhere between 2nd and 22nd.
You don't remember the 4-4 with westham with former addicks scoring all the goals?
Or one at Wembley?
Or the 4-4 v Millwall . or did i imagine that?
Or the 4-4 away to Ipswich.
I thought it was obvious I was talking 4-4s v Lancastrian opposition :-)
Chukademus Aneke put on a dominant masterclass in centre forward play, Millar looked the part again and is doing what he has been brought in to do
Out of possession we are still a shambles, massively improved in the second half but not enough urgency to win the ball from too many players. Aneke was the only player winning second balls and that was often after he had been in for the first
It will make a huge difference when Shinnie, Inniss and Famewo are back but that is going to be too late for this season now I think
If Bowyer doesn’t like players ducking out of tackles I am sure he’d be even more pleased with Gunters reaction to the second goal turning his back on a shot.
Yes and Gilbey did the same for the first, no closing down & then turned his back.
Comments
The physios believe that when he plays past 70 minutes he enters a 'danger zone' where muscular injuries are very likely. Nothing to do with his actual fitness.
To me he seems the classic sort of player who will do a job, without being great anywhere. He's not prolific enough to be a central striker alongside Chuks, his crossing is nothing special if you play him wide midfield in a 442/424, and he's too lightweight to be in one of the wide positions in the diamond.
His best position is probably as one of the wide forwards in a 433 (as with the Accrington game where he looked quite good) but that's not one of Bowyer's favoured formations.
When you're making a decision that dumbfounding, you don't get any credit for rectifying it. That goes for any task, in any job, but especially not in football when it takes you 3 goals to realise it's not working.
For those of you that didn't see my remarks at HT on the match thread, Baah was in the Palace academy from 2013-2017, released and then was under the successful Kinetic foundation in London from 2017-2019, where Joe Aribo spent time after having various trials at many academies. Joe left the foundation to join Staines before joining CAFC. Joe turned up as a CB at the foundation, before being converted into a mid fielder.
Josh Maja the Lewisham born lad who left Sunderland for France and Norrington-Davies who was transferred to Stoke yesterday from Sheffield United via a loan at Luton were other Kinetic foundation boys.
Got to speak about all the talent that was picked up by kinetic when released by academies by the manager of Whyteleafe (8th tier team) who is the part time Manager but full time boss of the foundation.
He told me(back in November) that Rochdale had a great talent in Baah and expected him to prove it.
21 year old Norrington-Davies spent a season on loan at Rochdale.
Baah showing his talent against cafc wasn't what I wanted to see ! A hefty challenge by anyone early doors would've been my advice but what do I know !
He played 1 match for Whyteleafe before Rochdale picked him up at Just 16 but I was at the valley so never saw him play.
As Whyteleafe may not survive as no games since playing on November 5th ( the season may be cancelled) I may never find out why Rochdale ?
Great going forward but woeful at the back.
Very much like Cafc last night !
We haven't really got out midfield right since our long injury list last season. We are crying out for a bit of muscle and the occasional reducer tackle when an opposition player gets arsenal. We only really have Pratters to do that and he is not particularly good at it.
I sometimes think that LB thinks all slight players are as 'hard' as he is, they aren't and we get bullied.
So there you have it, Bowyer broke Aneke. Nailed on. FACT!
In fact, who needs Steve Gallen when you are on your soap box?
Sorry mate, I'm bored this afternoon!
Or are you looking for miracles?
Chukademus Aneke put on a dominant masterclass in centre forward play, Millar looked the part again and is doing what he has been brought in to do
Out of possession we are still a shambles, massively improved in the second half but not enough urgency to win the ball from too many players. Aneke was the only player winning second balls and that was often after he had been in for the first
It will make a huge difference when Shinnie, Inniss and Famewo are back but that is going to be too late for this season now I think
Plenty of teams win promotion with late runs.
In fact, it was our own late run that got us promoted 2 seasons ago.