On the Chris Powell point, there’s a clear synergy here.
After we got promoted we weren’t able to build that summer like we hoped. Cash pulled his cash, and I think all we managed to bring in was Laurie Wilson. We had a bad run of 2 wins in 12, we’re languishing 21st and there’s we’re a small but online noisy group of fans who wanted Powell sacked. We then had that 5-4 Cardiff game, started winning again and ended the season an impressive 9th.
Had we been allowed a summer with backing instead of just Laurie Wilson I'm convinced we would have got play offs.
Really fear we are going end up just like we did then, with those wanting Powell out hating those that wanted to support him.
I wonder how many threads we will end up with on this topic?
I doubt that many Charlton fans don’t support Bowyer (or whomever happens to be the incumbent) for the time that he’s Charlton manager as his interests align with ours and the thing that unites us as fans, players, coaches, managers, and ownership is that we want Charlton to succeed.
For what it’s worth I think expecting or showing loyalty to any player or manager is crazy and won’t be reciprocated. My only (football) loyalty is to Charlton Athletic.
This works for me. We are all Charlton fans here, and we clearly support the Club. We want the Club to prosper both on and off the pitch.
When management and players are helping that to happen, everything is fine. But ... when things are not going as well as we would like ... in the interest of helping the Club prosper both on and off the pitch ... suggestions for improvement will be made. Among these suggestions, there may well be a call for a new manager.
I see that as tangible support for the Club. Evidence that we are not prepared to stand back and see our Club underperform.
For those who persist with blind faith in Bowyer (because he earned so much credit during the dark days), I might say that you are failing to support the Club. You are tolerating the status quo ... and that is League 1 mediocrity.
I want Bowyer gone and have never wanted Curbs gone or Powell at any time supporting Charlton. It isn't the bad run in itself, but the strange outbursts and tactics Bowyer has employed. It is also that I am aware there is discontent within the dressing room. If you chose to ignore these indicators, that is your lookout but if you opened your eyes you would see them.
We are all rightfully frustrated. Find a decent owner at last, face a wages cap. Witness a crop of players that we believe can get us back up including Famewo, Innis, Shinnie and Maddison winning a run of games without conceding only for us to hit an iffy patch when they all get injured.
Lee tinkers from one game to the next because of a) the fragility of some of the remaining ‘fit’ players and b) because few are shining when they play and there you have a cocktail that leads to fan frustration and calls for change.
While I think the constant formation shifting is unhelpful and the playing of an attacker at RWB is naïve at best, I do think we need to show Lee and his team a bit more patience and support and see how we get on when Famewo, Shinnie and at least Pratley are all back.
That bit more steel and creativity combined with the likes of Aneke and Schwartz’s evident ability to finish may be all we need to go on a 10 match unbeaten run which plants us right into the mix for automatic, let alone top 6. Most teams have a wobble in a season, ours is happening, but believe we can get through it and Lee should be given at least to the end of the campaign to see where we net out?
If we make the play offs, I would deem that a success based on how the squad had to be cobbled together pre-TS and taking into account the bad injury luck we have again had this season.
If Bowyer goes back to playing players in their correct positions as well as not slagging them off publicly or dropping them after they have had a good game like he has done recently, than I would be happy for him to stay. These last few months have been nothing short of baffling. Back to basics flat 4-4-2 or 4-4-2 diamond, with the right players to play at a bit of a tempo like the second half yesterday. If the weird decisions carry on then he needs to go, hopefully yesterday was the turning point.
Personally I find it amazing anyone could want LB to go at this moment. Thankfully TS, or anyone close to the club, is definitely not amongst those. We are all frustrated, but some people need to get real.
However I do think TS has been quiet over the last couple of weeks ago or so and given all the social media comments that he has no doubt read as we've gone through this poor run, it would be a good time to give out another reminder /statement (or song 😉) supporting the management team and that he is working with the guys to help them through this sticky patch. So far communication has been fantastic but just a bit quiet since Xmas.
If Bowyer goes back to playing players in their correct positions as well as not slagging them off publicly or dropping them after they have had a good game like he has done recently, than I would be happy for him to stay. These last few months have been nothing short of baffling. Back to basics flat 4-4-2 or 4-4-2 diamond, with the right players to play at a bit of a tempo like the second half yesterday. If the weird decisions carry on then he needs to go, hopefully yesterday was the turning point.
If he returned to being a normal manager again, I would go back to supporting him. My point is the things you have highlighted have happened and are as subtle as a flying mallet!
He has to get players back on side and be more consistent and conventional in his tactics. I thought he was doing this the moment I saw the team for yesterday, and posted as such, then we find out to my dismay we were playing 5 at the back! We didn't have the players selected to do this. WTF!
I want Bowyer to stay, but I cannot support any manager at any time who is doing things to "hurt" the team, and playing people out of position when he does not need to is crazy. If Luzon, Peeters, Riga, Slade, Robinson, and that other bloke who was here for five minutes did that (regularly), they would have been slated too. Curbishley, Powell, and Lawrence would never do it. We have two players at least for every position, play them in those positions!!!
Remind me of the four centre back choices Bow has had for any game in the last three months. Remind me of the four strikers worthy of the name that he had to choose from. How many more times does this point have to be made? The spine of this team is fragile, partly because our fitness/medical has been unfit for purpose since before Bow took over .How many more times does this point have to be made in these discussions?
100% behind the playing management including Steve Gallen.
Medical and fitness, step up
And yet we have at least 12 players for a maximum of 5 midfield positions - not including the likes of Gunter, Matthews, Maatsen and Osilaja who have all played there depending on the formation. That is because the balance of the squad was wrong with the thought that, should we get injuries, Pratley or Gunter could be utilised as CBs and we believed that we were signing Schwarz in the last window. The last 10 games are not just down to injuries because every team has those and there are very few that have the depth of squad that we have.
Fully behind LB and believe he should be given 'til the end of the season providing that there is a visible sign of improvement - that doesn't mean we have to go up but if we are unlikely to even make the play offs with say half a dozen games to go then we might just as well look at our options and give the right person, if they are available, time to assess the squad for next season.
No more excuses.
Four centre backs with Pratley covering is a good balance, having 3/4 out at a time isn’t normal.
Who are you including in the midfield 12? Levitt/Millar and Vennings didn’t count against the wage cap so it’s not as if that stopped us bringing in another player elsewhere.
JFC / Gilbey Pratley / Watson Shinnie / Morgan Maddison / Williams Doughty / Smyth Levitt (replaced by Millar) / Vennings
With regards to centre backs, LB refused to turn to either Oshilaja or Barker even though the latter did so well at the beginning of the season with LB preferring to play Pratley even though CB isn't his best position. Having 3/4 CBs out might not be normal but it isn't abnormal as it is the position most likely to suffer from suspensions - two injured and one suspended happens a lot. Liverpool have Gomez and VVD out for most of the season plus Matip injured. Man City have Laporte, Ake and Garica out.
The12 you mention are the ones I was referring to but the way I would look at it is that we have 16 players (Aneke, Schwartz, Washington and Bogle to be added) for 6 positions. And as I say that is without utilising the likes of Maatsen, Gunter or Matthews.
Ignoring the two keepers, I make it that we actually have a current squad of 25 players for 10 outfield positions. That doesn't even include 18 or 19 year olds that many other clubs in our League have to call on at times as we had to last season. Sometimes, though, less is more and the more options there are the more alternative ways there are to play - which results in a breakdown in continuity.
SCP only really used 15 players when we romped the League. He brought in most of that squad pre season and knew how he wanted to play. LB still needs to work that one out and we are now virtually half way through the season. And I hope he does for his sake as much as ours.
Total support from me. In particular for Bowyer. I don't believe he's lost the dressing room, I expect it's bloody difficult to remain positive following the results lately. I remember the dreaded Lyle Taylor at Bromley Addicts saying that Bow doesn't give them a hard time at half time as he knows the players will be feeling bad enough. I think the players lose belief in themselves after a bad run but look at the change in their play at yesterday's game in the second half. Bow hasn't lost the dressing room, the dressing room is just a shit place to be when you're on a losing run.
On the Chris Powell point, there’s a clear synergy here.
After we got promoted we weren’t able to build that summer like we hoped. Cash pulled his cash, and I think all we managed to bring in was Laurie Wilson. We had a bad run of 2 wins in 12, we’re languishing 21st and there’s we’re a small but online noisy group of fans who wanted Powell sacked. We then had that 5-4 Cardiff game, started winning again and ended the season an impressive 9th.
Had we been allowed a summer with backing instead of just Laurie Wilson I'm convinced we would have got play offs.
Really fear we are going end up just like we did then, with those wanting Powell out hating those that wanted to support him.
That 5-4 night ... almost didn’t go to the game ... so pleased I did, one of my best ever memories of a Charlton game ... the crowd were phenomenal and made a noise four times that of the actual attendance
For what it’s worth I think expecting or showing loyalty to any player or manager is crazy and won’t be reciprocated. My only (football) loyalty is to Charlton Athletic.
You can pin your heart on players, managers and owners as you see fit but your devotion is based on a different interests to theirs and, eventually, those interests won’t align anymore.
Like when he was a player, Bowyer will stay with us for as long as it’s in his interests to do so, not out of some undying love for Charlton Athletic. He left he for Leeds when he we a youngster because it was a better proposition than staying at Charlton (it was good for us too due to the size of the fee) and if he got offered a better proposition now he would do the same.
Sorry if that sounds brutal but it’s true and just as we should keep him as manager for as long as it is in our interests to do so.
On the Chris Powell point, there’s a clear synergy here.
After we got promoted we weren’t able to build that summer like we hoped. Cash pulled his cash, and I think all we managed to bring in was Laurie Wilson. We had a bad run of 2 wins in 12, we’re languishing 21st and there’s we’re a small but online noisy group of fans who wanted Powell sacked. We then had that 5-4 Cardiff game, started winning again and ended the season an impressive 9th.
Had we been allowed a summer with backing instead of just Laurie Wilson I'm convinced we would have got play offs.
Really fear we are going end up just like we did then, with those wanting Powell out hating those that wanted to support him.
Is that not what this thread does though? I'm expecting a no support thread to start up soon. If it's up to me Bowyer and co get till this time next year and we see where we are then.
On the Chris Powell point, there’s a clear synergy here.
After we got promoted we weren’t able to build that summer like we hoped. Cash pulled his cash, and I think all we managed to bring in was Laurie Wilson. We had a bad run of 2 wins in 12, we’re languishing 21st and there’s we’re a small but online noisy group of fans who wanted Powell sacked. We then had that 5-4 Cardiff game, started winning again and ended the season an impressive 9th.
Had we been allowed a summer with backing instead of just Laurie Wilson I'm convinced we would have got play offs.
Really fear we are going end up just like we did then, with those wanting Powell out hating those that wanted to support him.
Is that not what this thread does though? I'm expecting a no support thread to start up soon. If it's up to me Bowyer and co get till this time next year and we see where we are then.
Isn’t the Bowyer lost it thread a vehicle for that?
On the Chris Powell point, there’s a clear synergy here.
After we got promoted we weren’t able to build that summer like we hoped. Cash pulled his cash, and I think all we managed to bring in was Laurie Wilson. We had a bad run of 2 wins in 12, we’re languishing 21st and there’s we’re a small but online noisy group of fans who wanted Powell sacked. We then had that 5-4 Cardiff game, started winning again and ended the season an impressive 9th.
Had we been allowed a summer with backing instead of just Laurie Wilson I'm convinced we would have got play offs.
Really fear we are going end up just like we did then, with those wanting Powell out hating those that wanted to support him.
That 5-4 night ... almost didn’t go to the game ... so pleased I did, one of my best ever memories of a Charlton game ... the crowd were phenomenal and made a noise four times that of the actual attendance
My biggest Charlton regret. Had my season ticket in my pocket and stayed at work rather than go to the game trying to do a good job on the engagement we were on. Needn't have bothered as it did bugger all for my career and missed one of the best ever games in my lifetime.
On the Chris Powell point, there’s a clear synergy here.
After we got promoted we weren’t able to build that summer like we hoped. Cash pulled his cash, and I think all we managed to bring in was Laurie Wilson. We had a bad run of 2 wins in 12, we’re languishing 21st and there’s we’re a small but online noisy group of fans who wanted Powell sacked. We then had that 5-4 Cardiff game, started winning again and ended the season an impressive 9th.
Had we been allowed a summer with backing instead of just Laurie Wilson I'm convinced we would have got play offs.
Really fear we are going end up just like we did then, with those wanting Powell out hating those that wanted to support him.
Is that not what this thread does though? I'm expecting a no support thread to start up soon. If it's up to me Bowyer and co get till this time next year and we see where we are then.
Isn’t the Bowyer lost it thread a vehicle for that?
Do you think so? I should think theres a few on this thread who are in support of him think his lost it the last few games.
On the Chris Powell point, there’s a clear synergy here.
After we got promoted we weren’t able to build that summer like we hoped. Cash pulled his cash, and I think all we managed to bring in was Laurie Wilson. We had a bad run of 2 wins in 12, we’re languishing 21st and there’s we’re a small but online noisy group of fans who wanted Powell sacked. We then had that 5-4 Cardiff game, started winning again and ended the season an impressive 9th.
Had we been allowed a summer with backing instead of just Laurie Wilson I'm convinced we would have got play offs.
Really fear we are going end up just like we did then, with those wanting Powell out hating those that wanted to support him.
Is that not what this thread does though? I'm expecting a no support thread to start up soon. If it's up to me Bowyer and co get till this time next year and we see where we are then.
Isn’t the Bowyer lost it thread a vehicle for that?
But the thread title is "Has Bowyer lost it?" rather than "Bowyer lost it." One is a question, the other an assertion.
I want Bowyer to stay, but I cannot support any manager at any time who is doing things to "hurt" the team, and playing people out of position when he does not need to is crazy. If Luzon, Peeters, Riga, Slade, Robinson, and that other bloke who was here for five minutes did that (regularly), they would have been slated too. Curbishley, Powell, and Lawrence would never do it. We have two players at least for every position, play them in those positions!!!
Remind me of the four centre back choices Bow has had for any game in the last three months. Remind me of the four strikers worthy of the name that he had to choose from. How many more times does this point have to be made? The spine of this team is fragile, partly because our fitness/medical has been unfit for purpose since before Bow took over .How many more times does this point have to be made in these discussions?
100% behind the playing management including Steve Gallen.
Medical and fitness, step up
And yet we have at least 12 players for a maximum of 5 midfield positions - not including the likes of Gunter, Matthews, Maatsen and Osilaja who have all played there depending on the formation. That is because the balance of the squad was wrong with the thought that, should we get injuries, Pratley or Gunter could be utilised as CBs and we believed that we were signing Schwarz in the last window. The last 10 games are not just down to injuries because every team has those and there are very few that have the depth of squad that we have.
Fully behind LB and believe he should be given 'til the end of the season providing that there is a visible sign of improvement - that doesn't mean we have to go up but if we are unlikely to even make the play offs with say half a dozen games to go then we might just as well look at our options and give the right person, if they are available, time to assess the squad for next season.
No more excuses.
Four centre backs with Pratley covering is a good balance, having 3/4 out at a time isn’t normal.
Who are you including in the midfield 12? Levitt/Millar and Vennings didn’t count against the wage cap so it’s not as if that stopped us bringing in another player elsewhere.
JFC / Gilbey Pratley / Watson Shinnie / Morgan Maddison / Williams Doughty / Smyth Levitt (replaced by Millar) / Vennings
With regards to centre backs, LB refused to turn to either Oshilaja or Barker even though the latter did so well at the beginning of the season with LB preferring to play Pratley even though CB isn't his best position. Having 3/4 CBs out might not be normal but it isn't abnormal as it is the position most likely to suffer from suspensions - two injured and one suspended happens a lot. Liverpool have Gomez and VVD out for most of the season plus Matip injured. Man City have Laporte, Ake and Garica out.
The12 you mention are the ones I was referring to but the way I would look at it is that we have 16 players (Aneke, Schwartz, Washington and Bogle to be added) for 6 positions. And as I say that is without utilising the likes of Maatsen, Gunter or Matthews.
Ignoring the two keepers, I make it that we actually have a current squad of 25 players for 10 outfield positions. That doesn't even include 18 or 19 year olds that many other clubs in our League have to call on at times as we had to last season. Sometimes, though, less is more and the more options there are the more alternative ways there are to play - which results in a breakdown in continuity.
SCP only really used 15 players when we romped the League. He brought in most of that squad pre season and knew how he wanted to play. LB still needs to work that one out and we are now virtually half way through the season. And I hope he does for his sake as much as ours.
Joe Gomez has played centre half for England and won the premier league and European Cup (Champions League in new money) as a centre half.
Remind me how many games he played at centre half for Charlton when he was about the age Barker is?
For the record I would be tempted to play Barker if I'm honest but I can see why Bowyer appears reluctant to play a 17 year old at centre half in a team lacking physicality as ours does.
For the last year or so, I've been of the opinion he is a tinkerman and some of his team selections and tactics more so of late have been strange to say the least. Furthermore I thought his public critism of players was well out of order.
On balance though he's still got enough credit with me, at least until the end of the season for my full support. It'll then be a call for TS to stick or twist.
Has he ever at any time in his tenure been able to go out and sign the players he really would like to.....answer is no. How ironic that now at long last we have an owner willing and able to inject significant funds to do just that very thing, only to find ourselves hung out to dry by the wage capping edict. You couldn’t make it up!
100%. I actually thought the team spirit looked pretty good to me. Certainly no dressing room lost. You'll never have a 100% happy set of players (Maddison and Bogle spring to mind) and as in life some are more sensitive than others to critique, but the fight they showed means the boat is still rowing in the same direction currently!
Total support from me. In particular for Bowyer. I don't believe he's lost the dressing room, I expect it's bloody difficult to remain positive following the results lately. I remember the dreaded Lyle Taylor at Bromley Addicts saying that Bow doesn't give them a hard time at half time as he knows the players will be feeling bad enough. I think the players lose belief in themselves after a bad run but look at the change in their play at yesterday's game in the second half. Bow hasn't lost the dressing room, the dressing room is just a shit place to be when you're on a losing run.
This. I thought exactly the same watching the second half, the dressing room is not lost.
Yeah we are having a difficult time at the moment, as someone said earlier, wait until the injuries are resolved and see how it goes. In my opinion the season will pick up big time.
May I politely request that those who have a negative view of Bowyer please refrain from repeating (yet again) those views. They appear on every thread at the moment, so please leave a little room on the site for those of a more positive nature to hang out. Thank you in anticipation of your kind support.
Comments
After we got promoted we weren’t able to build that summer like we hoped. Cash pulled his cash, and I think all we managed to bring in was Laurie Wilson. We had a bad run of 2 wins in 12, we’re languishing 21st and there’s we’re a small but online noisy group of fans who wanted Powell sacked. We then had that 5-4 Cardiff game, started winning again and ended the season an impressive 9th.
Had we been allowed a summer with backing instead of just Laurie Wilson I'm convinced we would have got play offs.
Really fear we are going end up just like we did then, with those wanting Powell out hating those that wanted to support him.
When management and players are helping that to happen, everything is fine. But ... when things are not going as well as we would like ... in the interest of helping the Club prosper both on and off the pitch ... suggestions for improvement will be made. Among these suggestions, there may well be a call for a new manager.
I see that as tangible support for the Club. Evidence that we are not prepared to stand back and see our Club underperform.
For those who persist with blind faith in Bowyer (because he earned so much credit during the dark days), I might say that you are failing to support the Club. You are tolerating the status quo ... and that is League 1 mediocrity.
While I think the constant formation shifting is unhelpful and the playing of an attacker at RWB is naïve at best, I do think we need to show Lee and his team a bit more patience and support and see how we get on when Famewo, Shinnie and at least Pratley are all back.
That bit more steel and creativity combined with the likes of Aneke and Schwartz’s evident ability to finish may be all we need to go on a 10 match unbeaten run which plants us right into the mix for automatic, let alone top 6. Most teams have a wobble in a season, ours is happening, but believe we can get through it and Lee should be given at least to the end of the campaign to see where we net out?
If we make the play offs, I would deem that a success based on how the squad had to be cobbled together pre-TS and taking into account the bad injury luck we have again had this season.
We are all frustrated, but some people need to get real.
However I do think TS has been quiet over the last couple of weeks ago or so and given all the social media comments that he has no doubt read as we've gone through this poor run, it would be a good time to give out another reminder /statement (or song 😉) supporting the management team and that he is working with the guys to help them through this sticky patch. So far communication has been fantastic but just a bit quiet since Xmas.
He has to get players back on side and be more consistent and conventional in his tactics. I thought he was doing this the moment I saw the team for yesterday, and posted as such, then we find out to my dismay we were playing 5 at the back! We didn't have the players selected to do this. WTF!
The12 you mention are the ones I was referring to but the way I would look at it is that we have 16 players (Aneke, Schwartz, Washington and Bogle to be added) for 6 positions. And as I say that is without utilising the likes of Maatsen, Gunter or Matthews.
Ignoring the two keepers, I make it that we actually have a current squad of 25 players for 10 outfield positions. That doesn't even include 18 or 19 year olds that many other clubs in our League have to call on at times as we had to last season. Sometimes, though, less is more and the more options there are the more alternative ways there are to play - which results in a breakdown in continuity.
SCP only really used 15 players when we romped the League. He brought in most of that squad pre season and knew how he wanted to play. LB still needs to work that one out and we are now virtually half way through the season. And I hope he does for his sake as much as ours.
I'm expecting a no support thread to start up soon.
If it's up to me Bowyer and co get till this time next year and we see where we are then.
My biggest Charlton regret. Had my season ticket in my pocket and stayed at work rather than go to the game trying to do a good job on the engagement we were on. Needn't have bothered as it did bugger all for my career and missed one of the best ever games in my lifetime.
I should think theres a few on this thread who are in support of him think his lost it the last few games.
Remind me how many games he played at centre half for Charlton when he was about the age Barker is?
For the record I would be tempted to play Barker if I'm honest but I can see why Bowyer appears reluctant to play a 17 year old at centre half in a team lacking physicality as ours does.
On balance though he's still got enough credit with me, at least until the end of the season for my full support. It'll then be a call for TS to stick or twist.
How ironic that now at long last we have an owner willing and able to inject significant funds to do just that very thing, only to find ourselves hung out to dry by the wage capping edict.
You couldn’t make it up!
This. I thought exactly the same watching the second half, the dressing room is not lost.
Yeah we are having a difficult time at the moment, as someone said earlier, wait until the injuries are resolved and see how it goes.
In my opinion the season will pick up big time.
100% behind LB , the team et all
Thank you in anticipation of your kind support.