unprofessional, if you are going to react like that as a ref you shouldn't be one.
what happens if the player pushes back? if that's two players they both get booked/sent off, does the ref book himself? book the player? let him off with something he'd get in trouble for if it was with another player rather than the ref?
Unfortunately footballers are not as universally capable of acting in such a respectful way. I just don’t think enough of them have been bought up in such a way that would allow it to become a universal way of behaving. People can call it a toffs sport etc - but from my experience in working with players from a number of sports.... rugby players on the whole are far easier to deal with.
Massive generalisation. I've dealt with some great football folk and known some utter rugby arseholes It is learned behaviour...rugby players learn early on that backchat to refs is unacceptable and punished accordingly so it is not part of their game.
Do the same with footballers and it will be the same within a season.
Same as punching opponents has been phased out of football all but completely over the years due to huge punitive fines yet the rugby players still do it.
Could argue being incapable of not hitting someone, biting, gauging, sticking fingers up arses and all the stuff that is apparent in top class and all levels of rugby speaks of a far worse upbringing and lack of respect than gobby footballers encroaching and ranting on refs....regardless of whether they speak more nicely and went to better schools , were brought up better or whatever class- based point you are trying to make in that respect.
But again this is largely down to the fact that rugby ignores, effectively permits and often laughs off this type of behaviour because there is not the same breadth and frequency to punish it as would happen in football....it is part of the sport's culture to a degree, same as the mouthing off and swarming of refs is part of football culture.
Effectively clamp down on both in both sports and it will disappear quickly.
Referees have to be above this sort of behaviour as they are the ones punishing that very behaviour amongst the players. They have two coloured cards in their pockets to assist them.
Totally unprofessional.
I agree, but I'm also glad it has happened. Hopefully an opportunity for a rethink from players, and the opportunity for the rugby protocols around engagement and respect to be brought in.
Pierluigi Collina went head to head a few times with players. Suppose that was difficult for Drysdale up against a rather smaller man. Don't know what was said but ref should be in control of himself at all times. He only had to make contact and the player go down (as they do) and then what?
Pause and consider the use of the word 'professional' in this context, and consider it in relation to the journey a referee has to take to reach National League level, let alone Premier League. With a narrow base the top of the pyramid isn't very high. Referees start off as amateur officials, often in Sunday league, where donkey players often expect the ref to be as good as Collina with their own internal VAR system and expect those Sunday League amateur referees to act professionally when those Sunday League players behave like entitled pricks. It is quite something that referees progress to the point where it becomes a humble 'living' if it ever gets that far. Players don't wail at the weather, or the pitch, or the goalposts, and they shouldn't wail at the referees either. More matches should be abandoned if the ref gets dogs abuse from the players.
Unfortunately footballers are not as universally capable of acting in such a respectful way. I just don’t think enough of them have been bought up in such a way that would allow it to become a universal way of behaving. People can call it a toffs sport etc - but from my experience in working with players from a number of sports.... rugby players on the whole are far easier to deal with.
I think they are capable of acting in a respectful way, Damo. A red card every time they showed the ref disrespect would soon focus their mind. There seems no appetite for this from the football authorities though.
I have heard people say "But there would be six red cards every game" - so what? It wouldn't last very long before players learned their lesson - and the first team down to seven (or whatever the limit is for abandonment) automatically forfeits the game 4-0.
It can be dealt with, but the authorities choose not to.
Personally I think he should be suspended, the role of the ref is too maintain order and stop scenes like that on the pitch, he has directly contributed to one.
Was it not Drysdale who officiated one of the first pitch throwing protests? I recall the Ref not only keeping the players on the field but encouraging all 22 to exercise as it were on the spot. At the time highly admirable. Do hope he survives this incident. Game needs characters not automaytens
They need to sort this issue as player behaviour is copied in Saturday/ Sunday park games all over the Country with refs receiving abuse and physical threats or harm.
I learned years ago not to argue as the ref won’t change his mind (no VAR where I play) they are facilitating you with the opportunity of doing something you should be enjoying. .
would love to see Mike Dean run up to a player in the Premier League and say that was a f**king terrible decision when they misplace a pass or make a mistake that leads to a goal against them. Which is what the players do if the ref gets a decision wrong.
About time we saw a ref stand up to these players?
or
Bang out of order, if he was a player he’d be shown a red and banned for an age?
Personally, good on him. He’s an RAF SM apparently. No messing 💪🏻
He squared up, no actual violence shown.
No booking & no ban if he were a player.
If his reaction was as a result of dissent, he could and should have shown the yellow just for that. Assume he's had issues with Judge in the past or Judge said something well beyond acceptable, as it was quite the reaction.
It's a referee's job to calm and diffuse a situation not create one where there isn't one.
Alan Judge is about 5 ft 7 in, I wonder if Darren would be as quick to square up to someone like Ryan Inniss.
Furthermore he's surely a target for other players to wind up now.
If he is like any of the military people I know, then yes, he would.
I'm from a different country but the military people I know are just as prone to be bullies and small-men as the rest of society so I guess you're correct.
Hand the player the whistle and tell him to stick it up his arse and blow it and referee from there. Or abandon the match. Great to see the ref give it back. If the players want to drive referees out of the game, then the managers can do it instead, be funny to see Steve Evans keeping up with play.
Now, not sticking up for Judge here, he was tripped by the defender hanging out his leg, and probably should have been a pen, but fair play to the ref, didn't really do too much more than tell him why he was booking him, it was Judge who squared up to the ref, and ,maybe should have seen a red, regardless of if he felt hard done by or not. Too many players seem to get away without any punishment when they try and intimidate the ref https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8ilqVs6Ch0
Unfortunately footballers are not as universally capable of acting in such a respectful way. I just don’t think enough of them have been bought up in such a way that would allow it to become a universal way of behaving. People can call it a toffs sport etc - but from my experience in working with players from a number of sports.... rugby players on the whole are far easier to deal with.
I think they are capable of acting in a respectful way, Damo. A red card every time they showed the ref disrespect would soon focus their mind. There seems no appetite for this from the football authorities though.
I have heard people say "But there would be six red cards every game" - so what? It wouldn't last very long before players learned their lesson - and the first team down to seven (or whatever the limit is for abandonment) automatically forfeits the game 4-0.
It can be dealt with, but the authorities choose not to.
I always think that, hear a lot of "Well it just wouldn't work in football", but it absolutely could.
Rugby players know they step over the line at all and they are punished, footballers would soon learn if there were any real consequences.
Only ever happened to me once, but when refereeing a Sunday League game a player called me a cheat so I sent the fecker off. His team mates accepted my decision.
The amount of shit Refs get is ridiculous...Would it be normal to call your co-worker a fucking wanker or something to his face & not expect grief back.
Dont blame him for sticking up for himself....No one gets paid enough to be spoken too like a bit of shit for 90 minutes.
Co-worker? The ref is supposed to be in charge.
The law of the jungle is not appropriate for any profession.
So its okay for someone to be abused for a certain amount of time for doing his job? I am sure its not in the job description that you will be abused.
Ive played football and I have disagreed with decisions to the tone of "fucking hell ref" but never insulted them personally.
If he stands up for himself and gives it back...might show whos in charge!!
The key factor is surely that the referee is neutral, or that characteristic ought to come before the referee being 'good'. The weather is neutral, the ref is neutral, isn't that the starting point?
Paul Lambert wants the authorities to investigate the incident. How about you investigate the actions of your players first Paul
Lambert comes across pretty badly in this, like the class snitch grassing someone up. 'Oooh EFL look at what he did to my poor little player'. Fuck off mate.
What about the fact your player dived and then verbally abused the ref?
Unfortunately footballers are not as universally capable of acting in such a respectful way. I just don’t think enough of them have been bought up in such a way that would allow it to become a universal way of behaving. People can call it a toffs sport etc - but from my experience in working with players from a number of sports.... rugby players on the whole are far easier to deal with.
I think they are capable of acting in a respectful way, Damo. A red card every time they showed the ref disrespect would soon focus their mind. There seems no appetite for this from the football authorities though.
I have heard people say "But there would be six red cards every game" - so what? It wouldn't last very long before players learned their lesson - and the first team down to seven (or whatever the limit is for abandonment) automatically forfeits the game 4-0.
It can be dealt with, but the authorities choose not to.
I always think that, hear a lot of "Well it just wouldn't work in football", but it absolutely could.
Rugby players know they step over the line at all and they are punished, footballers would soon learn if there were any real consequences.
It's quite refreshing to see and hear how rugby players (both Union and League) talk to the referee.
You don't get the Roy Keane/Jaap Stam-led posse chasing after Andy D'Urso scenarios in rugby - only the captain speaks to the ref unless the ref has called a player over to be spoken to. There's (normally) a definite respect for the position of the whistle-blower as more-often-than-not you'll hear the players call the ref "sir".
There can still be some decent banter between ref and players but it's very much in its place.
As the old saying goes:
“Football is a gentleman's game played by hooligans, and rugby is a hooligan's game played by gentlemen."
Darren Drysdale up before the Judge, just before he's up before the FA on a charge.
Of course Drysdale shouldn't do it but the abuse refs take at all levels is crazy.
Before all football stopped on November 5th, from 7th level down, I watched 20 odd games and the abuse refs and their assistances receive from part time Professionals was off the scale. New younger refs in their 20's and many over 50's officiate lower down the pyrimid. One older lino was 60+ and in an evening game missed a penalty mainly because the standard of the floodlights were second rate. It was funny seeing a supporter offering him his glasses. The ref had too many bodies in the way and TBF I only saw it because I was just yards away behind the goal.
When the Asian ref in non league was physically attacked last season and not given 100% backing from the football authorities, the ref's association should have threatened to go on strike for one weekend.
Unfortunately footballers are not as universally capable of acting in such a respectful way. I just don’t think enough of them have been bought up in such a way that would allow it to become a universal way of behaving. People can call it a toffs sport etc - but from my experience in working with players from a number of sports.... rugby players on the whole are far easier to deal with.
I think they are capable of acting in a respectful way, Damo. A red card every time they showed the ref disrespect would soon focus their mind. There seems no appetite for this from the football authorities though.
I have heard people say "But there would be six red cards every game" - so what? It wouldn't last very long before players learned their lesson - and the first team down to seven (or whatever the limit is for abandonment) automatically forfeits the game 4-0.
It can be dealt with, but the authorities choose not to.
I always think that, hear a lot of "Well it just wouldn't work in football", but it absolutely could.
Rugby players know they step over the line at all and they are punished, footballers would soon learn if there were any real consequences.
It's quite refreshing to see and hear how rugby players (both Union and League) talk to the referee.
You don't get the Roy Keane/Jaap Stam-led posse chasing after Andy D'Urso scenarios in rugby - only the captain speaks to the ref unless the ref has called a player over to be spoken to. There's (normally) a definite respect for the position of the whistle-blower as more-often-than-not you'll hear the players call the ref "sir".
There can still be some decent banter between ref and players but it's very much in its place.
As the old saying goes:
“Football is a gentleman's game played by hooligans, and rugby is a hooligan's game played by gentlemen."
Totally agree. And since you mention Andy D'Urso, I will mention I had a conversation about this with him (when I worked with him about 20 years ago).
It's a referee's job to calm and diffuse a situation not create one where there isn't one.
Alan Judge is about 5 ft 7 in, I wonder if Darren would be as quick to square up to someone like Ryan Inniss.
Furthermore he's surely a target for other players to wind up now.
If he is like any of the military people I know, then yes, he would.
I'm from a different country but the military people I know are just as prone to be bullies and small-men as the rest of society so I guess you're correct.
??? You asked if the ref would stand up to a bigger player - I suggested he would. It has nothing to do with being a bully or being small, and everything to do with standing up for yourself on principle, irrespective of the size or otherwise of the opponent.
Comments
what happens if the player pushes back? if that's two players they both get booked/sent off, does the ref book himself? book the player? let him off with something he'd get in trouble for if it was with another player rather than the ref?
He’s programmed to stand up to anyone giving him a bit of lip.
Good luck to him.
Massive generalisation. I've dealt with some great football folk and known some utter rugby arseholes It is learned behaviour...rugby players learn early on that backchat to refs is unacceptable and punished accordingly so it is not part of their game.
Do the same with footballers and it will be the same within a season.
Same as punching opponents has been phased out of football all but completely over the years due to huge punitive fines yet the rugby players still do it.
Could argue being incapable of not hitting someone, biting, gauging, sticking fingers up arses and all the stuff
that is apparent in top class and all levels of rugby speaks of a far worse upbringing and lack of respect than gobby footballers encroaching and ranting on refs....regardless of whether they speak more nicely and went to better schools , were brought up better or whatever class- based point you are trying to make in that respect.
But again this is largely down to the fact that rugby ignores, effectively permits and often laughs off this type of behaviour because there is not the same breadth and frequency to punish it as would happen in football....it is part of the sport's culture to a degree, same as the mouthing off and swarming of refs is part of football culture.
Effectively clamp down on both in both sports and it will disappear quickly.
With a narrow base the top of the pyramid isn't very high. Referees start off as amateur officials, often in Sunday league, where donkey players often expect the ref to be as good as Collina with their own internal VAR system and expect those Sunday League amateur referees to act professionally when those Sunday League players behave like entitled pricks.
It is quite something that referees progress to the point where it becomes a humble 'living' if it ever gets that far. Players don't wail at the weather, or the pitch, or the goalposts, and they shouldn't wail at the referees either.
More matches should be abandoned if the ref gets dogs abuse from the players.
I have heard people say "But there would be six red cards every game" - so what? It wouldn't last very long before players learned their lesson - and the first team down to seven (or whatever the limit is for abandonment) automatically forfeits the game 4-0.
It can be dealt with, but the authorities choose not to.
would love to see Mike Dean run up to a player in the Premier League and say that was a f**king terrible decision when they misplace a pass or make a mistake that leads to a goal against them. Which is what the players do if the ref gets a decision wrong.
No booking & no ban if he were a player.
If his reaction was as a result of dissent, he could and should have shown the yellow just for that. Assume he's had issues with Judge in the past or Judge said something well beyond acceptable, as it was quite the reaction.
leg, and probably should have been a pen, but fair play to the ref, didn't really do too
much more than tell him why he was booking him, it was Judge who squared up to the
ref, and ,maybe should have seen a red, regardless of if he felt hard done by or not.
Too many players seem to get away without any punishment when they try and intimidate
the ref
Storm in a tea cup
Rugby players know they step over the line at all and they are punished, footballers would soon learn if there were any real consequences.
His team mates accepted my decision.
Ive played football and I have disagreed with decisions to the tone of "fucking hell ref" but never insulted them personally.
If he stands up for himself and gives it back...might show whos in charge!!
The weather is neutral, the ref is neutral, isn't that the starting point?
What about the fact your player dived and then verbally abused the ref?
It's quite refreshing to see and hear how rugby players (both Union and League) talk to the referee.
You don't get the Roy Keane/Jaap Stam-led posse chasing after Andy D'Urso scenarios in rugby - only the captain speaks to the ref unless the ref has called a player over to be spoken to. There's (normally) a definite respect for the position of the whistle-blower as more-often-than-not you'll hear the players call the ref "sir".
There can still be some decent banter between ref and players but it's very much in its place.
As the old saying goes:
“Football is a gentleman's game played by hooligans, and rugby is a hooligan's game played by gentlemen."
Of course Drysdale shouldn't do it but the abuse refs take at all levels is crazy.
Before all football stopped on November 5th, from 7th level down, I watched 20 odd games and the abuse refs and their assistances receive from part time Professionals was off the scale.
New younger refs in their 20's and many over 50's officiate lower down the pyrimid.
One older lino was 60+ and in an evening game missed a penalty mainly because the standard of the floodlights were second rate. It was funny seeing a supporter offering him his glasses. The ref had too many bodies in the way and TBF I only saw it because I was just yards away behind the goal.
When the Asian ref in non league was physically attacked last season and not given 100% backing from the football authorities, the ref's association should have threatened to go on strike for one weekend.
You asked if the ref would stand up to a bigger player - I suggested he would. It has nothing to do with being a bully or being small, and everything to do with standing up for yourself on principle, irrespective of the size or otherwise of the opponent.