You can kind of tell that people like Corbyn and IDS do not and probably never have lived in the real world. All this bluster about vaccine certificates being divisive and discriminatory. What a load of bollocks.
The whole world is already full of stuff like this: drivers' licences; Tesco's policy of not selling alcohol or knives to anyone that looks under 25 unless they can prove they are over 18; Passports; existing vaccination certificates for various diseases when travelling abroad; lawyers' practising certificates; pilots' licences; criminal background checks; etc, etc.
Probably a good example in this context is that if you want to be a professional boxer you have to have evidence of commencement of Hepatitis B vaccinations.
None of these things are a pointless, bureaucratic waste of time. They are all there to make us safer and/or more competent.
What can possibly be wrong with having to prove to a pub landlord that you are not a risk to his other customers?
Nice work linking Liberals and corbyn to this, you've absolutely nailed it though because while I'd question where a vaccine passport leads to, I also believe that a 9 year old should be able to buy a bread knife and a bottle of rum if he so desires.
Vaccine passports are pointless, if we go by the current scientific evidence, of which there isn't much that is agreed on, we have been told that having the vaccine gives you less than 100% chance of being immune to getting Covid-19, but if you do get it, symptoms will be mild. We are also told that it is not certain that having the vaccine means you cannot be asymptomatic or a carrier and pass it on. Given that, I can see why you might need to be able to show a negative test result, but not why you'd need a passport. The vaccine protects you, not anyone else.
If a vaccine is not 100% effective, it doesn't mean it isn't effective. The more people who are vaccinated, the higher the numbers that potentially won't pass it on. Isn't that how vaccination works and we see it with MMR. When vaccination rates go down, more people catch something for example. A vaccine’s ability to block transmission doesn’t need to be 100% to make a significant difference. If it is say 70% effective, that only applies if everybody is vaccinated. The 30% we can't do anything about, but vaccine hesitancy brings the effectiveness down and it is something we need to influence and can do something about.
With regard to how it would be actioned at the turnstiles: couldn’t it be integrated electronically, so you have to buy your ticket in advance and through an online profile that you can only setup with proof of vaccination, like Charlton TV when watching online. No ticket no entry, I know some people will complain but perhaps it’s time they take their thumb out their bum and do the right thing and get vaccinated, perhaps we’re reaching a point in society where you either do the right thing or get left behind; for the greater good and all that.(this assumes that getting vaccinated is considered doing the right thing). It’s all a bit Orwellian, but it is what it is 😉
I am referring purely in the context of attending football/theatre/nightclubs…
The thing is with me, I accompanied my brother when he had his jabs, and because I’m his main carer they agreed to do mine at the same time. So the only proof I have is the card with the dates and batches of the jabs.
The thing is with me, I accompanied my brother when he had his jabs, and because I’m his main carer they agreed to do mine at the same time. So the only proof I have is the card with the dates and batches of the jabs.
If you download the NHS app, put your details in, it should show the same details as the card you have.
The thing is with me, I accompanied my brother when he had his jabs, and because I’m his main carer they agreed to do mine at the same time. So the only proof I have is the card with the dates and batches of the jabs.
I doubt that to be honest. Download the NHS app. Not the NHS Covid app and enter your details. I’m pretty certain that your vaccinations were recorded and be available on the app.
If they are on the card, they will be on record. You don't need the app, you can go online with your NHS number and get the official confirmation letter within a few days.
inconceivable that football clubs won’t have the wherewithal to accept this official document as proof of vaccination.
There is a barcode on it which I assume will be what is used. It does need another form of ID though to accompany it for it to not be open to abuse I reckon. Clubs should be able to put in the checks in much the same way as they do to stop people who are not entitled getting in with concessionary tickets.
From what I've read opposition to vaccination certificates runs across the different parties. So this isn't a left- right issue.
I understand the objection if vaccine passports prevented people from accessing basic services like healthcare, dentists, supermarkets etc.
What I don't yet understand is why vaccine passports for discretionary entertainment events is a problem, given that they will reduce the risk of virus spreading and arguably make people more likely to attend matches for example.
Also, football clubs are private businesses, so can they not impose what is basically a health & safety restriction if they want to? Yes, they might be taken to court by an anti-vaxxer refused admission, but would the anti-vaxxer win? I doubt it. I think there’ll be an announcement re limited crowds returning soonish. Hope so anyway.
all you would need is a disclaimer when selling tickets "anyone who fails to produce proof of vaccination or negative test result will be refused entry and no refunds given"
Similarly, there could be a disclaimer saying: There may be people in the stadium who have not been vaccinated. You now have the choice to make a personal risk assessment, something you have been doing for most of your life. If you feel your personal well being will be threatened in any way by attending, then don't come.
Being pedantic, it would only be a risk assessment if you could have certain facts as to the number of people without vaccination who were in the ground at the time. Otherwise it would just be a risk which you would choose to run or not. I would have to think carefully about that as a season ticket holder who is immunosuppressed and previously had to shelter but has two vaccines but no antibodies, what would you recommend I do?
I seem to recall that the scanners on the entry turnstiles can read Bar codes and QR codes on the season ticket and on the paper tickets. The NHS Covid pass is updated regularly and shows my regular testing history and vaccination record. It is probably not beyond the wit of a software programmer to allow the season ticket holder to pass only when the covid pass is scanned as well. If anyone tries to use a covid pass belonging to someone else it would let them in but only the first time the pass is used for that match so it cannot be shared around. From a revenue protection point of view it will also show the age of the person using the QR code and identify someone trying to use an age concession ticket.
From what I've read opposition to vaccination certificates runs across the different parties. So this isn't a left- right issue.
I understand the objection if vaccine passports prevented people from accessing basic services like healthcare, dentists, supermarkets etc.
What I don't yet understand is why vaccine passports for discretionary entertainment events is a problem, given that they will reduce the risk of virus spreading and arguably make people more likely to attend matches for example.
Also, football clubs are private businesses, so can they not impose what is basically a health & safety restriction if they want to? Yes, they might be taken to court by an anti-vaxxer refused admission, but would the anti-vaxxer win? I doubt it. I think there’ll be an announcement re limited crowds returning soonish. Hope so anyway.
all you would need is a disclaimer when selling tickets "anyone who fails to produce proof of vaccination or negative test result will be refused entry and no refunds given"
Similarly, there could be a disclaimer saying: There may be people in the stadium who have not been vaccinated. You now have the choice to make a personal risk assessment, something you have been doing for most of your life. If you feel your personal well being will be threatened in any way by attending, then don't come.
Being pedantic, it would only be a risk assessment if you could have certain facts as to the number of people without vaccination who were in the ground at the time. Otherwise it would just be a risk which you would choose to run or not. I would have to think carefully about that as a season ticket holder who is immunosuppressed and previously had to shelter but has two vaccines but no antibodies, what would you recommend I do?
I seem to recall that the scanners on the entry turnstiles can read Bar codes and QR codes on the season ticket and on the paper tickets. The NHS Covid pass is updated regularly and shows my regular testing history and vaccination record. It is probably not beyond the wit of a software programmer to allow the season ticket holder to pass only when the covid pass is scanned as well. If anyone tries to use a covid pass belonging to someone else it would let them in but only the first time the pass is used for that match so it cannot be shared around. From a revenue protection point of view it will also show the age of the person using the QR code and identify someone trying to use an age concession ticket.
On the other hand I wouldn't feel particularly safer in an environment with "all vaccinated" people. At least a high proportion of unvaccinated people show symptoms when they are infected and probably wouldn't make it in the first place.
Unfortunately the message is very mixed and deluded people like me can't really work it out!
"Even if you have the jabs you can still catch and pass Covid-19 on so always wear your mask to protect others."
or
"It's OK to mix with people in crowds if you can prove you've had your jabs".
From what I've read opposition to vaccination certificates runs across the different parties. So this isn't a left- right issue.
I understand the objection if vaccine passports prevented people from accessing basic services like healthcare, dentists, supermarkets etc.
What I don't yet understand is why vaccine passports for discretionary entertainment events is a problem, given that they will reduce the risk of virus spreading and arguably make people more likely to attend matches for example.
Also, football clubs are private businesses, so can they not impose what is basically a health & safety restriction if they want to? Yes, they might be taken to court by an anti-vaxxer refused admission, but would the anti-vaxxer win? I doubt it. I think there’ll be an announcement re limited crowds returning soonish. Hope so anyway.
all you would need is a disclaimer when selling tickets "anyone who fails to produce proof of vaccination or negative test result will be refused entry and no refunds given"
Similarly, there could be a disclaimer saying: There may be people in the stadium who have not been vaccinated. You now have the choice to make a personal risk assessment, something you have been doing for most of your life. If you feel your personal well being will be threatened in any way by attending, then don't come.
Being pedantic, it would only be a risk assessment if you could have certain facts as to the number of people without vaccination who were in the ground at the time. Otherwise it would just be a risk which you would choose to run or not. I would have to think carefully about that as a season ticket holder who is immunosuppressed and previously had to shelter but has two vaccines but no antibodies, what would you recommend I do?
I seem to recall that the scanners on the entry turnstiles can read Bar codes and QR codes on the season ticket and on the paper tickets. The NHS Covid pass is updated regularly and shows my regular testing history and vaccination record. It is probably not beyond the wit of a software programmer to allow the season ticket holder to pass only when the covid pass is scanned as well. If anyone tries to use a covid pass belonging to someone else it would let them in but only the first time the pass is used for that match so it cannot be shared around. From a revenue protection point of view it will also show the age of the person using the QR code and identify someone trying to use an age concession ticket.
On the other hand I wouldn't feel particularly safer in an environment with "all vaccinated" people. At least a high proportion of unvaccinated people show symptoms when they are infected and probably wouldn't make it in the first place.
Unfortunately the message is very mixed and deluded people like me can't really work it out!
"Even if you have the jabs you can still catch and pass Covid-19 on so always wear your mask to protect others."
or
"It's OK to mix with people in crowds if you can prove you've had your jabs".
How about
'Wearing a mask reduces the risk of becoming infected or of passing on the infection. Being vaccinated also reduces the risk of becoming infected or of passing it on. Being fully vaccinated and wearing a mask gives you even more protection'?
From what I've read opposition to vaccination certificates runs across the different parties. So this isn't a left- right issue.
I understand the objection if vaccine passports prevented people from accessing basic services like healthcare, dentists, supermarkets etc.
What I don't yet understand is why vaccine passports for discretionary entertainment events is a problem, given that they will reduce the risk of virus spreading and arguably make people more likely to attend matches for example.
Also, football clubs are private businesses, so can they not impose what is basically a health & safety restriction if they want to? Yes, they might be taken to court by an anti-vaxxer refused admission, but would the anti-vaxxer win? I doubt it. I think there’ll be an announcement re limited crowds returning soonish. Hope so anyway.
all you would need is a disclaimer when selling tickets "anyone who fails to produce proof of vaccination or negative test result will be refused entry and no refunds given"
Similarly, there could be a disclaimer saying: There may be people in the stadium who have not been vaccinated. You now have the choice to make a personal risk assessment, something you have been doing for most of your life. If you feel your personal well being will be threatened in any way by attending, then don't come.
Being pedantic, it would only be a risk assessment if you could have certain facts as to the number of people without vaccination who were in the ground at the time. Otherwise it would just be a risk which you would choose to run or not. I would have to think carefully about that as a season ticket holder who is immunosuppressed and previously had to shelter but has two vaccines but no antibodies, what would you recommend I do?
I seem to recall that the scanners on the entry turnstiles can read Bar codes and QR codes on the season ticket and on the paper tickets. The NHS Covid pass is updated regularly and shows my regular testing history and vaccination record. It is probably not beyond the wit of a software programmer to allow the season ticket holder to pass only when the covid pass is scanned as well. If anyone tries to use a covid pass belonging to someone else it would let them in but only the first time the pass is used for that match so it cannot be shared around. From a revenue protection point of view it will also show the age of the person using the QR code and identify someone trying to use an age concession ticket.
On the other hand I wouldn't feel particularly safer in an environment with "all vaccinated" people. At least a high proportion of unvaccinated people show symptoms when they are infected and probably wouldn't make it in the first place.
Unfortunately the message is very mixed and deluded people like me can't really work it out!
"Even if you have the jabs you can still catch and pass Covid-19 on so always wear your mask to protect others."
or
"It's OK to mix with people in crowds if you can prove you've had your jabs".
I would. There is always risk, but vaccinations mitigate the risks. I would be less confident about tests that seem unreliable and open to being done wrongly.
How about this, applies to vaccines as well as masks.
What a daft analogy. If you are wearing trousers it doesn't mean that you get closer to the other person which is what happens with mask-wearing.
The best way to keep dry is to keep a distance, something which mask wearing either makes us forget to do through over confidence in the mask's efficiency , or prevents us from doing communication wise.
Mask wearing has never made me forget to keep a distance or get closer to communicate and I've never noticed it with anyone else. In fact I'd say quite the opposite.
If clubs have to check vaccine status, the cost of the extra staff will be painful for smaller clubs.
When I went to Lord's for that test event, there were dedicated people checking vaccine status and giving everyone wrist tags to wear, and you did this before entering the main entrance queues. At The Valley, they could do this or have people manning the turnstile booths again, but I can imagine the anger if the turnstile queue you're in has someone struggling to provide the right details...
Also, you can imagine the hostile scenes with "pissed up" away fans wanting to get in, and with some people having the vaccine details, and others not...
Couldn’t the club put a bit of adapt into its database for season ticket holders, you then could email the club your qr code. So when you walk up to the turnstile, it will allow you through.
Couldn’t the club put a bit of adapt into its database for season ticket holders, you then could email the club your qr code. So when you walk up to the turnstile, it will allow you through.
I wouldn't think it would be too hard to adapt existing systems and the Government ought to help those with difficulties. The idea is to make these potential spreading events safe which is surely what we all want to see.
On a personal note, I've had the 2 vaccinations and received a "passport" letter from the NHS this week (thanks you to the person who pointed me in the direction of this on here). At 59 (I know, I don't look it) and living in a home where most people are over 70, I'm still dubious about attending next week at Home. I haven't been at The Valley for 5 years, and yes, I miss it like f**k, but the fact that some people who might attend haven't had their injections worries me. I appreciate that it is a question of choice, but for me their decision is stopping me from attending.
Mask wearing has never made me forget to keep a distance or get closer to communicate and I've never noticed it with anyone else. In fact I'd say quite the opposite.
Well, that's not my experience. I was talking outdoors to a mask wearer today and again I felt uncomfortably close. However to be fair this has always been the case and different cultures have different acceptable communication distancing.
Absolutely no issue for me, so long as those who are exempt from the jab for medical reasons get treated the same as those jabbed. If you’ve decided not to have it cos you’re claiming to be smarter than medical experts then, well, 🤷🏻♂️
Couldn’t the club put a bit of adapt into its database for season ticket holders, you then could email the club your qr code. So when you walk up to the turnstile, it will allow you through.
After the S/T incentive fiasco you have more faith than me
Mask wearing has never made me forget to keep a distance or get closer to communicate and I've never noticed it with anyone else. In fact I'd say quite the opposite.
Well, that's not my experience. I was talking outdoors to a mask wearer today and again I felt uncomfortably close. However to be fair this has always been the case and different cultures have different acceptable communication distancing.
If you feel uncomfortably close take a step back like anyone else would. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with wearing a mask.
Have the club said we have to show proof of jabs next week?
I don't see how it's even a possibility until everyone has been given the chance of 2 jabs, which won't be until end of September/early October.
As someone suggested, base the checks on one jab until October, when it becomes 2 jabs. It certainly makes more sense than no jabs between now and October.
Comments
No ticket no entry, I know some people will complain but perhaps it’s time they take their thumb out their bum and do the right thing and get vaccinated, perhaps we’re reaching a point in society where you either do the right thing or get left behind; for the greater good and all that.(this assumes that getting vaccinated is considered doing the right thing).
It’s all a bit Orwellian, but it is what it is 😉
I am referring purely in the context of attending football/theatre/nightclubs…
inconceivable that football clubs won’t have the wherewithal to accept this official document as proof of vaccination.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/nhs-covid-pass
I seem to recall that the scanners on the entry turnstiles can read Bar codes and QR codes on the season ticket and on the paper tickets. The NHS Covid pass is updated regularly and shows my regular testing history and vaccination record. It is probably not beyond the wit of a software programmer to allow the season ticket holder to pass only when the covid pass is scanned as well. If anyone tries to use a covid pass belonging to someone else it would let them in but only the first time the pass is used for that match so it cannot be shared around. From a revenue protection point of view it will also show the age of the person using the QR code and identify someone trying to use an age concession ticket.
Unfortunately the message is very mixed and deluded people like me can't really work it out!
"Even if you have the jabs you can still catch and pass Covid-19 on so always wear your mask to protect others."
or
"It's OK to mix with people in crowds if you can prove you've had your jabs".
'Wearing a mask reduces the risk of becoming infected or of passing on the infection. Being vaccinated also reduces the risk of becoming infected or of passing it on. Being fully vaccinated and wearing a mask gives you even more protection'?
The best way to keep dry is to keep a distance, something which mask wearing either makes us forget to do through over confidence in the mask's efficiency , or prevents us from doing communication wise.
When I went to Lord's for that test event, there were dedicated people checking vaccine status and giving everyone wrist tags to wear, and you did this before entering the main entrance queues. At The Valley, they could do this or have people manning the turnstile booths again, but I can imagine the anger if the turnstile queue you're in has someone struggling to provide the right details...
Also, you can imagine the hostile scenes with "pissed up" away fans wanting to get in, and with some people having the vaccine details, and others not...
At 59 (I know, I don't look it) and living in a home where most people are over 70, I'm still dubious about attending next week at Home. I haven't been at The Valley for 5 years, and yes, I miss it like f**k, but the fact that some people who might attend haven't had their injections worries me.
I appreciate that it is a question of choice, but for me their decision is stopping me from attending.
It's got nothing whatsoever to do with wearing a mask.