I assume if Derby go bust there will be an uplift of teams throughout the pyramid which would mean Mansfield in our division and Solihull Moors in the fourth division. As I said above I certainly don’t want us to have two fixtures less.
I think it leaves the league too open to issues from other clubs - do you put Northampton up instead as they finished 4th, give Gillingham a reprieve etc.
The other clubs may look to challenge it and make it a mess, easier to just have 23 teams.
OK. Then I hope Derby County survive, because I have bought my season ticket and I don’t want one game less for my money.
I said in February (page 28) that the choice of administrators seemed strange. The only reason I could think of for their appointment was that they must have been cheap. They appear to have been a very poor custodian of DCFC and have done the club no favours at all.
The Wigan administrators weren't great either, also letting the situation drag on for months and months
I suspect non PL clubs are just less and less appealing to sensible investors. Especially if they have massive debts, no assets and/or a stadium which is too big for them. Never ending losses with a minute chance of ever getting back to the PL.
Hence administrators find it increasingly tough to get a club through to a successful sale to a reasonable owner.
I think we're already at the stage where they'd run League 1 with 23 rather than mess about all the leagues further down the chain by promoting one extra club from each level. That being the case, there's no particular reason why the EFL should kick Derby out until fairly close to the start of the season, as they don't need to change the fixture list, they just leave one team each week with no game. The deadline will come from the fact that whoever's playing Derby on the first day will want to know whether they have a game or not. Less than a month before the start of the season and it starts to get unfair on those clubs which aren't run like complete disaster areas.
I don't think the EFL have said anything about a deadline yet, but presumably that will change now there's a serious risk that the deal won't get through in time.
I think we're already at the stage where they'd run League 1 with 23 rather than mess about all the leagues further down the chain by promoting one extra club from each level. That being the case, there's no particular reason why the EFL should kick Derby out until fairly close to the start of the season, as they don't need to change the fixture list, they just leave one team each week with no game. The deadline will come from the fact that whoever's playing Derby on the first day will want to know whether they have a game or not. Less than a month before the start of the season and it starts to get unfair on those clubs which aren't run like complete disaster areas.
I don't think the EFL have said anything about a deadline yet, but presumably that will change now there's a serious risk that the deal won't get through in time.
That's all well and good from the clubs perspective but not necessarily fair on the Derby players.
I think we're already at the stage where they'd run League 1 with 23 rather than mess about all the leagues further down the chain by promoting one extra club from each level. That being the case, there's no particular reason why the EFL should kick Derby out until fairly close to the start of the season, as they don't need to change the fixture list, they just leave one team each week with no game. The deadline will come from the fact that whoever's playing Derby on the first day will want to know whether they have a game or not. Less than a month before the start of the season and it starts to get unfair on those clubs which aren't run like complete disaster areas.
I don't think the EFL have said anything about a deadline yet, but presumably that will change now there's a serious risk that the deal won't get through in time.
That's all well and good from the clubs perspective but not necessarily fair on the Derby players.
Strewth, it's the players being paid stupid salaries which have caused all the problems! They only have a few under contract, and (if Derby fold) those will be pooled back to the EFL and then "sold" to the highest bidder, so it's not as if they won't be paid at all for months (unlike some of Derby's creditors...).
Mike Ashley will save the day and pick them up for peanuts
Genuinely not sure he can be bothered with a League 1 club and the risk - his whole model is basically use a Premier League club for advertising Sports Direct, and the risk might be too much that he won't reach that level for too long etc with Derby.
He'd surely only be interested if he can get the stadium off Morris. As he could then potentially do something with the land around it (if indeed Morris owns that as well, i'm just guessing).
In the short term he'd be good for Derby, he'd stabilise them, sort them out, they'd actually have a club and Ashley would surely invest enough to get them back to the championship at least.
Longer term though, the problems would come if Derby can't get back to the Premier league because Ashley isn't one to invest much/any of his own money into a club. He is all about making money, and of course if they couldn't get to the premier league then the club wouldn't be profitable. So then what happens?
Administrators just announced that nothing forthcoming from Kirchner & the 5pm deadline has passed.
They are now talking to other interested parties.
Which means the circus will carry on for another 3-6 months, with the Administrators saying they are close to a deal with x,y or z...but with nothing happening. At which point Kirchner will step back in & will be their preferred bidder again.
I predict that Derby will start the season as they are.
Administrators just announced that nothing forthcoming from Kirchner & the 5pm deadline has passed.
They are now talking to other interested parties.
Which means the circus will carry on for another 3-6 months, with the Administrators saying they are close to a deal with x,y or z...but with nothing happening. At which point Kirchner will step back in & will be their preferred bidder again.
I predict that Derby will start the season as they are.
Presumably after showing they have sufficient funds to complete the season.
There's no way they will have the funds to complete the season so unless Mike Ashley steps in very quickly, how would they be allowed to start it?
I’m just implying this from a BBC article today, but it appears that they can play this season in administration as they didn’t start last season in administration. I’m reading that to mean you can only go one full season in admin. It also says they have to provide a break even budget, but it doesn’t say when this is needed, but I assume at latest, before the first game
There's no way they will have the funds to complete the season so unless Mike Ashley steps in very quickly, how would they be allowed to start it?
I’m just implying this from a BBC article today, but it appears that they can play this season in administration as they didn’t start last season in administration. I’m reading that to mean you can only go one full season in admin. It also says they have to provide a break even budget, but it doesn’t say when this is needed, but I assume at latest, before the first game
That seems reasonable, but as they could not afford to pay the players in May, highly unlikely. Especially when you consider they only have five players. Krystian Bielick will obviously be sold - and probably the other four as they will be on very good Championship wages and could be replaced by free players and kids. No doubt the administrators will take the cash raised but just maybe, income could be enough to cover wages.
Basically they need a new owner before the window shuts. This is where you come in. As a taxpayer you will have to swallow the debt owed to Revenue and Customs, plus of course any repayments due to any of their staff or ex staff, and cover their National Insurance payments just so Derby can survive.
Meanwhile Mel Morris looks like he will be leasing the stadium to the local council until someone buys it so will have a nice little income paid for by local rate payers. I am sure they won’t mind giving up a few things to subsidise the pension of a multi millionaire. Any new owner gets a club for a bargain price.
If they do pull of a sale no doubt Derby will be the first team from league 1 to feature on Sky.
Sad to say it, but they should be made to go out of business.
There's no way they will have the funds to complete the season so unless Mike Ashley steps in very quickly, how would they be allowed to start it?
I’m just implying this from a BBC article today, but it appears that they can play this season in administration as they didn’t start last season in administration. I’m reading that to mean you can only go one full season in admin. It also says they have to provide a break even budget, but it doesn’t say when this is needed, but I assume at latest, before the first game
If they are in admin will they have another points deduction.?
There's no way they will have the funds to complete the season so unless Mike Ashley steps in very quickly, how would they be allowed to start it?
I’m just implying this from a BBC article today, but it appears that they can play this season in administration as they didn’t start last season in administration. I’m reading that to mean you can only go one full season in admin. It also says they have to provide a break even budget, but it doesn’t say when this is needed, but I assume at latest, before the first game
That seems reasonable, but as they could not afford to pay the players in May, highly unlikely. Especially when you consider they only have five players. Krystian Bielick will obviously be sold - and probably the other four as they will be on very good Championship wages and could be replaced by free players and kids. No doubt the administrators will take the cash raised but just maybe, income could be enough to cover wages.
Basically they need a new owner before the window shuts. This is where you come in. As a taxpayer you will have to swallow the debt owed to Revenue and Customs, plus of course any repayments due to any of their staff or ex staff, and cover their National Insurance payments just so Derby can survive.
Meanwhile Mel Morris looks like he will be leasing the stadium to the local council until someone buys it so will have a nice little income paid for by local rate payers. I am sure they won’t mind giving up a few things to subsidise the pension of a multi millionaire. Any new owner gets a club for a bargain price.
If they do pull of a sale no doubt Derby will be the first team from league 1 to feature on Sky.
Sad to say it, but they should be made to go out of business.
I live near Derby so hear a lot about the current situation on the radio and from a few a people who are fans.
The media coverage last season was nauseating, describing Rooney and his players as some sort of heroic figures for playing. Let's not forget the majority of the squad last season were established pro's on incredibly bloated contracts from the old regime and they were still collecting their full wages, paid in full each month. Unless I'm mistaken I don't believe there has been a single case of any playing staff not receiving their full wage despite the administration. This was not a Bury situation where players were going without pay for weeks or months on end.
Contrast the media coverage Rooney and the players received to the non existent coverage given to the non-playing staff and local businesses.
There was very little coverage of the loyal staff, some of whom had served the club for decades, been laid off via email.
There was even less coverage of the local businesses who are in some cases owed hundreds of thousands of pounds and probably stand to get about 5p in the pound back once this whole saga is completed. For many of these businesses that money is the difference between staying afloat and going under, and I've no doubt whatsoever some businesses have folded or will fold because the club can't pay it's debts.
The owner should be thoroughly ashamed of himself. At least in similar situations in the past at other clubs it has by and large been nameless, faceless owners from thousands of miles away with no affinity to the club who have walked away and left others to pick up the pieces.
In this case the owner has modelled his whole ownership about being a local boy done good who wants to give back to the club he has supported since he was a boy. There can be plenty of debate about the risks he took and it's worth acknowledging that if they'd won the various play off finals they got to the story might have been totally different and he'd be a hero.
However the legacy he leaves is numerous loyal staff now without work, local businesses going bust and the very real prospect that fans will no longer have a club to support.
The fact he is now holding the club to ransom over the stadium really is the final insult. Perhaps as he sits there working out how much to charge the club for the privilege of playing in it's own stadium (A stadium the club owned before he took over) he should cast his mind back to when he was a boy and attending matches and consider that he is now jeopardising the opportunity for every other young boy and girl to do the same.
I've listened to plenty of fans on BBC Radio Derby who really frustrate me. Whether it's complaining about Boro and Wycombe having the cheek to be peeved off at Derby cheating their way through a season, or kicking off at the EFL for some imaginary vendetta they have against the club, or complaining they don't want Mike Ashley anywhere near the club (I literally heard that repeated today despite the fact they are a few weeks from going bust).
However the nature of modern football nowadays means almost every single club is one step away from financial oblivion if their owners suddenly wake up one morning and decide they've had enough. I include Charlton in that as well. We've already been separated from our stadium in a similar fashion to Derby, and if TS decided next week he's had enough and no longer willing to sink his cash into the club we'd probably not be to far removed from experiencing what Derby fans are going through right now.
That's why despite the club deserving to go bust, and in fact it probably ishould have done already, I simply couldn't wish that fate on their fans who are powerless to influence how their club has been run, or is run. Which is the same for 99% of clubs across the country.
For what it's worth I've long thought the club would end up being taken over by Mike Ashley and I'm still convinced that's the case. I think all his maneuvering at the moment is just to negotiate himself the best deal which you can't blame him for really, last I heard was he had baulked at paying the millions of pounds in fees the administrators were demanding, which in fairness he is probably quite justified about being aggrieved about.
I'm actually surprised Rooney is still there. Unless he's taken a very hefty pay cut then he's a far bigger expense than any of the players.
I wonder how much he thinks that he won't get that sort of money elsewhere - he didn't want to go to Everton, for example.
So he's taking out a ton of cash in wages week on week (whilst having a free hit given no one blames him for losses given the situation).
All whilst being heralded as some sort of martyr for sticking around.
Sure I saw on the Garner Thread that Garner is on 180k per year which was rumoured to be just under or about the going rate for a League One manager.
I've seen lots of places quote Rooney as on 85k a week which means it will take him just over two weeks to earn what his counter-parts at other League One Club's earn in a year.
When you take that into account the question shouldn't be why has Rooney stayed, it should be why would he ever leave?
Taking into account that a lot of money is owed to the tax payer and how decisive the government were able to be in getting Abramovitch out of Chelsea when it suited them. I would like them to make a compulsory purchase of the ground for the sum of a pound, even if they have to rush through legislation to do so. The club without the ground could then be sold at a more favourable rate to purchasers and we could recover our money by renting out the stadium to the club.
Taking action like this might then deter owners from such unscrupulous practice n the future.
Ashley will buy the ground and the club, finance a push to the Premier league. Be happy with a 15th place finish and Derby fans, and the general public, will be calling him a "bad owner" in 5 years time.
I’m pretty sure they still owe Arsenal £8m of the £10m they signed Bielik for
get another example of a club living well beyond what’s reasonable and sensible
It’s a funny thing in football, but unsurprising as the members of the EFL are essentially the owners of the clubs, that football depts need to be settled to come out of admin and keep you league status. Surely this could be addressed if the dept is not paid the player registration defaults back to the selling club. If clubs aren’t happy with this arrangement then they should agree a few at an amount the buying club can afford to pay up front.
Taking into account that a lot of money is owed to the tax payer and how decisive the government were able to be in getting Abramovitch out of Chelsea when it suited them. I would like them to make a compulsory purchase of the ground for the sum of a pound, even if they have to rush through legislation to do so. The club without the ground could then be sold at a more favourable rate to purchasers and we could recover our money by renting out the stadium to the club.
Taking action like this might then deter owners from such unscrupulous practice n the future.
No way. CPO have to be at market value. You can't simply stick legislation through to cut through that for a one off situation as it would set a hugely dangerous precedent for the Govt to use it elsewhere the same way.
Taking into account that a lot of money is owed to the tax payer and how decisive the government were able to be in getting Abramovitch out of Chelsea when it suited them. I would like them to make a compulsory purchase of the ground for the sum of a pound, even if they have to rush through legislation to do so. The club without the ground could then be sold at a more favourable rate to purchasers and we could recover our money by renting out the stadium to the club.
Taking action like this might then deter owners from such unscrupulous practice n the future.
No way. CPO have to be at market value. You can't simply stick legislation through to cut through that for a one off situation as it would set a hugely dangerous precedent for the Govt to use it elsewhere the same way.
I take your point, but for far too long governments have dithered and delayed in doing anything about the immoral way that professional football has operated in this country. Leaving it to govern its self at the expense of both the taxpayer and smaller companies that get ripped off subsidising certain wealthy peoples gambles on achieving a very unlikely success. When it suited the government acted swiftly to wrestle the hands of Chelsea from it’s owner. Legislation could be put in place to tackle this unique problem that wouldn’t have to impact on anything else. To do nothing and keep losing money seems to me to be weak leadership.
Comments
Then I hope Derby County survive, because I have bought my season ticket and I don’t want one game less for my money.
Hence administrators find it increasingly tough to get a club through to a successful sale to a reasonable owner.
I don't think the EFL have said anything about a deadline yet, but presumably that will change now there's a serious risk that the deal won't get through in time.
In the short term he'd be good for Derby, he'd stabilise them, sort them out, they'd actually have a club and Ashley would surely invest enough to get them back to the championship at least.
Longer term though, the problems would come if Derby can't get back to the Premier league because Ashley isn't one to invest much/any of his own money into a club. He is all about making money, and of course if they couldn't get to the premier league then the club wouldn't be profitable. So then what happens?
They are now talking to other interested parties.
Which means the circus will carry on for another 3-6 months, with the Administrators saying they are close to a deal with x,y or z...but with nothing happening. At which point Kirchner will step back in & will be their preferred bidder again.
I predict that Derby will start the season as they are.
Even other Derby fans were trying to remind him, that even Ashley at the moment is better than nothing
Krystian Bielick will obviously be sold - and probably the other four as they will be on very good Championship wages and could be replaced by free players and kids. No doubt the administrators will take the cash raised but just maybe, income could be enough to cover wages.
Basically they need a new owner before the window shuts. This is where you come in. As a taxpayer you will have to swallow the debt owed to Revenue and Customs, plus of course any repayments due to any of their staff or ex staff, and cover their National Insurance payments just so Derby can survive.
Meanwhile Mel Morris looks like he will be leasing the stadium to the local council until someone buys it so will have a nice little income paid for by local rate payers. I am sure they won’t mind giving up a few things to subsidise the pension of a multi millionaire. Any new owner gets a club for a bargain price.
If they do pull of a sale no doubt Derby will be the first team from league 1 to feature on Sky.
Sad to say it, but they should be made to go out of business.
The media coverage last season was nauseating, describing Rooney and his players as some sort of heroic figures for playing. Let's not forget the majority of the squad last season were established pro's on incredibly bloated contracts from the old regime and they were still collecting their full wages, paid in full each month. Unless I'm mistaken I don't believe there has been a single case of any playing staff not receiving their full wage despite the administration. This was not a Bury situation where players were going without pay for weeks or months on end.
Contrast the media coverage Rooney and the players received to the non existent coverage given to the non-playing staff and local businesses.
There was very little coverage of the loyal staff, some of whom had served the club for decades, been laid off via email.
There was even less coverage of the local businesses who are in some cases owed hundreds of thousands of pounds and probably stand to get about 5p in the pound back once this whole saga is completed. For many of these businesses that money is the difference between staying afloat and going under, and I've no doubt whatsoever some businesses have folded or will fold because the club can't pay it's debts.
The owner should be thoroughly ashamed of himself. At least in similar situations in the past at other clubs it has by and large been nameless, faceless owners from thousands of miles away with no affinity to the club who have walked away and left others to pick up the pieces.
In this case the owner has modelled his whole ownership about being a local boy done good who wants to give back to the club he has supported since he was a boy. There can be plenty of debate about the risks he took and it's worth acknowledging that if they'd won the various play off finals they got to the story might have been totally different and he'd be a hero.
However the legacy he leaves is numerous loyal staff now without work, local businesses going bust and the very real prospect that fans will no longer have a club to support.
The fact he is now holding the club to ransom over the stadium really is the final insult. Perhaps as he sits there working out how much to charge the club for the privilege of playing in it's own stadium (A stadium the club owned before he took over) he should cast his mind back to when he was a boy and attending matches and consider that he is now jeopardising the opportunity for every other young boy and girl to do the same.
I've listened to plenty of fans on BBC Radio Derby who really frustrate me. Whether it's complaining about Boro and Wycombe having the cheek to be peeved off at Derby cheating their way through a season, or kicking off at the EFL for some imaginary vendetta they have against the club, or complaining they don't want Mike Ashley anywhere near the club (I literally heard that repeated today despite the fact they are a few weeks from going bust).
However the nature of modern football nowadays means almost every single club is one step away from financial oblivion if their owners suddenly wake up one morning and decide they've had enough. I include Charlton in that as well. We've already been separated from our stadium in a similar fashion to Derby, and if TS decided next week he's had enough and no longer willing to sink his cash into the club we'd probably not be to far removed from experiencing what Derby fans are going through right now.
That's why despite the club deserving to go bust, and in fact it probably ishould have done already, I simply couldn't wish that fate on their fans who are powerless to influence how their club has been run, or is run. Which is the same for 99% of clubs across the country.
For what it's worth I've long thought the club would end up being taken over by Mike Ashley and I'm still convinced that's the case. I think all his maneuvering at the moment is just to negotiate himself the best deal which you can't blame him for really, last I heard was he had baulked at paying the millions of pounds in fees the administrators were demanding, which in fairness he is probably quite justified about being aggrieved about.
So he's taking out a ton of cash in wages week on week (whilst having a free hit given no one blames him for losses given the situation).
All whilst being heralded as some sort of martyr for sticking around.
I've seen lots of places quote Rooney as on 85k a week which means it will take him just over two weeks to earn what his counter-parts at other League One Club's earn in a year.
When you take that into account the question shouldn't be why has Rooney stayed, it should be why would he ever leave?
get another example of a club living well beyond what’s reasonable and sensible