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2019/20 accounts (Here we go!)
Comments
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We don’t know the detail of this, but essentially it was always likely that any deal including the freehold of the land would need to be structured around Premier League promotion to get anywhere near RD’s valuation of the whole package.
What is a bit concerning is that RD seems to have locked in some value from his successor’s potential success on the pitch regardless of the fact he still retains the freehold of The Valley. But without the numbers it’s hard to judge this.0 -
I suspect that the PL status payments to Duchatelet are a version of what was in the ESI deal, which aren’t terrible in relation to PL income. But that’s on top of a big increase in rent, which is reliable income for RD. You have to look at the thing in the round and TS needed to do a deal last September.
RD would say look at the debt he has written off - but as we know he is the one who pissed it up the wall and then sold to a bunch of conmen.8 -
When you look at those figures and what went on whilst Southall etc was in the picture it amazes me there isnt a case to get them barred from future Director roles. If I submitted accounts for my business that read anything like that I would be ashamed to say the least6
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The Baton 2010 accounts should give a snapshot of the financial position at the point ESI took over, which will reveal more.AndyG said:When you look at those figures and what went on whilst Southall etc was in the picture it amazes me there isnt a case to get them barred from future Director roles. If I submitted accounts for my business that read anything like that I would be ashamed to say the least1 -
Agreed but what Directors would sign a company up to in excess of £500k in car lease payments with a balance sheet like that ? That in itself is negligent without the other rubbish they didAirman Brown said:
The Baton 2010 accounts should give a snapshot of the financial position at the point ESI took over, which will reveal more.AndyG said:When you look at those figures and what went on whilst Southall etc was in the picture it amazes me there isnt a case to get them barred from future Director roles. If I submitted accounts for my business that read anything like that I would be ashamed to say the least4 -
People like that have no shame.AndyG said:When you look at those figures and what went on whilst Southall etc was in the picture it amazes me there isnt a case to get them barred from future Director roles. If I submitted accounts for my business that read anything like that I would be ashamed to say the least
That's what makes them people like that.
Southall still believes he was entitled to all his cars and fees.6 -
It's been said many times before but total utter scum who imo are a waste of oxygenHenry Irving said:
People like that have no shame.AndyG said:When you look at those figures and what went on whilst Southall etc was in the picture it amazes me there isnt a case to get them barred from future Director roles. If I submitted accounts for my business that read anything like that I would be ashamed to say the least
That's what makes them people like that.
Southall still believes he was entitled to all his cars and fees.2 -
That’s what the ‘going concern’ statement on page 10 covers off - provided you convince the auditor that despite the loss and negative tangible net worth, the business is still viable, then away you go.AndyG said:
Agreed but what Directors would sign a company up to in excess of £500k in car lease payments with a balance sheet like that ? That in itself is negligent without the other rubbish they didAirman Brown said:
The Baton 2010 accounts should give a snapshot of the financial position at the point ESI took over, which will reveal more.AndyG said:When you look at those figures and what went on whilst Southall etc was in the picture it amazes me there isnt a case to get them barred from future Director roles. If I submitted accounts for my business that read anything like that I would be ashamed to say the least
Of course that’s a valid statement to make in this case, because TS can prove this to the auditors by virtue of his wealth, that he can financially support the club
I imagine Southall would have tried that as well, had he still been in the hot seat when the accounts were prepared, however how is a mystery, and likely the auditor would be forced to state that the business is not - in their opinion - a going concern0 -
Also a little surprising the leasing company accepted the credit risk. Lending of any sort to a football club is high risk given precarious finances in the industry generally and reputational and practical risk in calling up any security.AndyG said:
Agreed but what Directors would sign a company up to in excess of £500k in car lease payments with a balance sheet like that ? That in itself is negligent without the other rubbish they didAirman Brown said:
The Baton 2010 accounts should give a snapshot of the financial position at the point ESI took over, which will reveal more.AndyG said:When you look at those figures and what went on whilst Southall etc was in the picture it amazes me there isnt a case to get them barred from future Director roles. If I submitted accounts for my business that read anything like that I would be ashamed to say the leastCan only assume the leases were priced to reflect that I.e. expensive.1 -
It’s highly unusual to put your investment in as equity these days, much more tax efficient to put it in as a loanAirman Brown said:
I don’t really agree with that because we now know that Duchatelet stands to benefit if Charlton reach the PL before 2030, which I think is news. Plus, for example, the transfer income for the whole of 20/21 because of the late sign-off (£5.6m), against £1.4M in outgoings (Including agents and terminations).Cafc43v3r said:I'll have a proper look through later at the detail. But you need to remember that these are an historical document that's main use is to pin point what Southall and his crew took out. They don't really have much other use.
The 4 million plus in player sales is that Dijksteel and a sell on for Konsa or Lookman?
it’s also interesting that Thomas Sandgaard’s interest-free loan of £10.5m is (notionally) repayable in 2025. I’d say that is unlikely to happen unless we reach the PL by then or he sells part or all of the club. Not saying it’s a threat to the club, just a fact. He can obviously roll it over.2 -
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Where is the rumoured £11m TS put in last September?.Also will he put in more money to cover until June next year?.Airman Brown said:
The Baton 2010 accounts should give a snapshot of the financial position at the point ESI took over, which will reveal more.AndyG said:When you look at those figures and what went on whilst Southall etc was in the picture it amazes me there isnt a case to get them barred from future Director roles. If I submitted accounts for my business that read anything like that I would be ashamed to say the least0 -
The accounts are to 30 June 2020 so TS's investment into the club won't be reflected until the following accounting year.3
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The September take over happened 3 months after the accounts "closed" so they will be in next year's. However if you ready the accounts a post balance sheet commentary mentions a 10.5 million pound interest free, unsecured loan. So I assume that's the 11 million your referring to?Valley27000 said:
Where is the rumoured £11m TS put in last September?.Also will he put in more money to cover until June next year?.Airman Brown said:
The Baton 2010 accounts should give a snapshot of the financial position at the point ESI took over, which will reveal more.AndyG said:When you look at those figures and what went on whilst Southall etc was in the picture it amazes me there isnt a case to get them barred from future Director roles. If I submitted accounts for my business that read anything like that I would be ashamed to say the least1 -
I can feel my hackles rising whilst reading this, despite the fact we all knew the position was totally dire.
Southall et al are totally beyond the pale and Duchatelet - who nearly finished this club - is an abhorrent individual. The fact that he stands to gain from a promotion to the Premiership after his egregiously negligent stewardship of the club and his extortionate valuation is, to put it mildly, nauseating.
We were incredibly lucky to attract interest from an owner like Thomas and that - notwithstanding the many daunting obstacles - he was prepared to force a deal through.10 -
Ok thanks.Cafc43v3r said:
The September take over happened 3 months after the accounts "closed" so they will be in next year's. However if you ready the accounts a post balance sheet commentary mentions a 10.5 million pound interest free, unsecured loan. So I assume that's the 11 million your referring to?Valley27000 said:
Where is the rumoured £11m TS put in last September?.Also will he put in more money to cover until June next year?.Airman Brown said:
The Baton 2010 accounts should give a snapshot of the financial position at the point ESI took over, which will reveal more.AndyG said:When you look at those figures and what went on whilst Southall etc was in the picture it amazes me there isnt a case to get them barred from future Director roles. If I submitted accounts for my business that read anything like that I would be ashamed to say the least0 -
That’s the bond money lodged with the EFLValley27000 said:
Where is the rumoured £11m TS put in last September?.Also will he put in more money to cover until June next year?.Airman Brown said:
The Baton 2010 accounts should give a snapshot of the financial position at the point ESI took over, which will reveal more.AndyG said:When you look at those figures and what went on whilst Southall etc was in the picture it amazes me there isnt a case to get them barred from future Director roles. If I submitted accounts for my business that read anything like that I would be ashamed to say the least3 -
Already had a pal text me asking why are you buying Range Rovers when the club is skint.Hard to cut a long story short LOL0
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So overall cost too run Charlton in league one is about £17m when we make only £7m or £8m.0
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The post balance sheet ‘commentary’ is way more detailed than I am used to seeing (I work in banking) - normally it would simply say ‘the ownership changed on x date’ and that’s about it - I regard it as a positive that the commentary is detailed and transparentCafc43v3r said:
The September take over happened 3 months after the accounts "closed" so they will be in next year's. However if you ready the accounts a post balance sheet commentary mentions a 10.5 million pound interest free, unsecured loan. So I assume that's the 11 million your referring to?Valley27000 said:
Where is the rumoured £11m TS put in last September?.Also will he put in more money to cover until June next year?.Airman Brown said:
The Baton 2010 accounts should give a snapshot of the financial position at the point ESI took over, which will reveal more.AndyG said:When you look at those figures and what went on whilst Southall etc was in the picture it amazes me there isnt a case to get them barred from future Director roles. If I submitted accounts for my business that read anything like that I would be ashamed to say the least3 -
I hope all the people who are taking pops at Sandgaard for not making us the Man City of league one take a good, long hard look at those figures. We are lucky to be witnessing another season of league 1 football with a competitive squad let alone buying the league.
Honestly if you fall into that category of people who are doubting him and making snide remarks have a word. The amount he has done since he's arrived. Extremely grateful someone with no previous connection with the club has come in and given us hope/saved us. What happened to 'as long as we get our Charlton back'. Well here it is. I am personally chuffed with our situation when you consider what could have been.
Just sit back and enjoy the season49 -
Me too I thought it was refreshing and reassuring. I must admit I have only read the 1st 20 pages because it's so hard to read on a phone.Lordflashheart said:
The post balance sheet ‘commentary’ is way more detailed than I am used to seeing (I work in banking) - normally it would simply say ‘the ownership changed on x date’ and that’s about it - I regard it as a positive that the commentary is detailed and transparentCafc43v3r said:
The September take over happened 3 months after the accounts "closed" so they will be in next year's. However if you ready the accounts a post balance sheet commentary mentions a 10.5 million pound interest free, unsecured loan. So I assume that's the 11 million your referring to?Valley27000 said:
Where is the rumoured £11m TS put in last September?.Also will he put in more money to cover until June next year?.Airman Brown said:
The Baton 2010 accounts should give a snapshot of the financial position at the point ESI took over, which will reveal more.AndyG said:When you look at those figures and what went on whilst Southall etc was in the picture it amazes me there isnt a case to get them barred from future Director roles. If I submitted accounts for my business that read anything like that I would be ashamed to say the least
I have had a couple of people look at them and not only were they shocked at the state of the balance sheet but very impressed with the comments.0 -
You dont need to be a Chartered Accountant to look at those figures and come to the conclusion that we were f##ked!!!!!
If Dave Jones had walked out of Farnells office with the players price tags under his arm ( thank you for those that interrupted that meeting )
If the fans hadn't turned the heat up on Elliotttyttyty ( thank you to all )
If TS hadn't appeared out of nowhere ( thank you whoever arranged that )
If Freshfields hadn't spotted a loophole in the ESI sale ( thank you )
If TS had stumped up £11m ( thank you )
That's alot of it's I know but if any of them hadn't have happened I doubt we would be talking about the coming season.
There is alot to be grateful about imo4 -
Possibly not an exaggeration to believe we may have no longer had a club to support.AndyG said:You dont need to be a Chartered Accountant to look at those figures and come to the conclusion that we were f##ked!!!!!
If Dave Jones had walked out of Farnells office with the players price tags under his arm ( thank you for those that interrupted that meeting )
If the fans hadn't turned the heat up on Elliotttyttyty ( thank you to all )
If TS hadn't appeared out of nowhere ( thank you whoever arranged that )
If Freshfields hadn't spotted a loophole in the ESI sale ( thank you )
If TS had stumped up £11m ( thank you )
That's alot of it's I know but if any of them hadn't have happened I doubt we would be talking about the coming season.
There is alot to be grateful about imo0 -
These accounts are exactly the reason why I’m so short with those who demand spending like there is no tomorrow.17
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If you look at them the P&L is actually pretty good for a championship club, especially when you take out the "Southall element".
The balance sheet is awful. However it will will remain as such until the loans due to Roland are either written off or paid. It will look worse next year when another 11 million drops on as outstanding.
The argument that it shows that we shouldn't spend is nonsense. If anything it shows the exact opposite. Especially if you also view the previous years accounts. If we don't spend at all we will lose between 7 and 10 million in the coming season. And the season after. And the season after.
Anyone suggesting we aim for break even, in league 1, is either financially illiterate or an idiot.
The balance is spend just enough and spending it well. I honestly believe we are well placed to do this and the evidence backs it up.
These accounts don't really tell us anything we didn't already know nor do they prove that spending money to get out of league 1 ASAP is a bad idea.5 -
Indeed. All sorts of rubbish gets talked about losses being lower in L1 or “we’re better off not getting promoted because we’re not ready”. The imperative is to get out as fast as possible.Cafc43v3r said:If you look at them the P&L is actually pretty good for a championship club, especially when you take out the "Southall element".
The balance sheet is awful. However it will will remain as such until the loans due to Roland are either written off or paid. It will look worse next year when another 11 million drops on as outstanding.
The argument that it shows that we shouldn't spend is nonsense. If anything it shows the exact opposite. Especially if you also view the previous years accounts. If we don't spend at all we will lose between 7 and 10 million in the coming season. And the season after. And the season after.
Anyone suggesting we aim for break even, in league 1, is either financially illiterate or an idiot.
The balance is spend just enough and spending it well. I honestly believe we are well placed to do this and the evidence backs it up.
These accounts don't really tell us anything we didn't already know nor do they prove that spending money to get out of league 1 ASAP is a bad idea.8 -
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Matt If only you had stuck with this, you might still be here.0
