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Sandgaards ego can do one (Ed. And it has for now)
Comments
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For me our history and traditions are covenants that any owner must abide by, that’s non-negotiable.addick1956 said:
Ultimately this mess can be resolved very easily without any lasting damage and actually Sandgaard might learn from it so could be a good thing in the long run.2 -
He got this one wrong - you don't unilaterally make a decision about changing the club's tradition. There are plenty of misguided examples of other owners getting it wrong.Scratchingvalleycat said:The RRR is a Charlton institution which has largely been ignored in recent years. When it has been played, before last Saturday, and there have been crowds in, it has not been sung by the fans, with the Covered End usually belting out Valley Floyd Road to drown out RRR. Suddenly, because it was dropped, it has become sacred again. Play it at the next league home game and see how many of our support actually sing it. I sit in the NWQ and sometime I can barely hear myself singing it because the Covered end do not.
Yes, it has meaning for me since it was played at home when I was a small child. Is it sacrosanct to me. Is it really important to the majority of our support? Obviously not.
Do people vote in favour of keeping it? Yes, because it is tradition and most people hate change.
Will they sing it if it reinstated? Maybe once but then no, because it is an anachronism to many of our support with its dated words and emotions.
Maybe Thomas should have tried a rearrangement of Billy Cotton version, but the screams would have been the same.
Addicks to Victory was a good attempt by TS to bring a different culture, partly American influenced, into the club and he will undoubtedly feel hurt by the criticism he has faced on social media. To the keyboard warriors who have dissed him out of turn on twitter and the like, I would recommend that they learn from history what bad owners are really like.
TS seems to me to be a good owner, spending wisely in this league, attending matches, joining in with much of the spirit of the club. If he was driven by ego, then there would have been many more changes and we would have been told to suck it up, much in the manner of RD and KM.
Simply, if you want RRR then sing it, but dont complain if you dont sing it and someone concludes that it is an unwanted anachronism. If the 3,000 fans that have voted for it had actually sung it then it would have been obvioys to TS that it was of importance.
Rant over.
It shows a lack of understanding.
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That’s a very fair post @SoundAsa£SoundAsa£ said:I feel very uncomfortable regarding people using the words vanity and ego.
Without knowing the man, I honestly can’t tell if either of those features played a huge part in this episode.
As someone who has done a few somewhat bizarre things in my life which have impacted on others, I have a different view on it. I just wanted others to enjoy my actions, that sometimes didn’t work out but ego and vanity didn’t really play much of a part in it.
He may just have wanted ‘everyone’ to simply enjoy it and be as excited as he did, through one of his great loves and passions in life, his music.
We know he’s something of an extrovert and that’s fine by me, though extroverts can be a bit OTT for some of us famously reserved Brits.
Having said that, it certainly was a mistake to have replaced RRR.
What part any ego and vanity levels played in this…..Mmmmm I am not sure.I used the vanity word but suspect you are correct3 -
TS has been with us less than a year and all of that without crowds of any size or no crowds at all. Understanding comes from experience. However, i must admit that i am more incensed with the morons who booed the team Taking the Knee than I am with AtoV. They HAVE had a year to understand the meanjng of that gesturehoof_it_up_to_benty said:
He got this one wrong - you don't unilaterally make a decision about changing the club's tradition. There are plenty of misguided examples of other owners getting it wrong.Scratchingvalleycat said:The RRR is a Charlton institution which has largely been ignored in recent years. When it has been played, before last Saturday, and there have been crowds in, it has not been sung by the fans, with the Covered End usually belting out Valley Floyd Road to drown out RRR. Suddenly, because it was dropped, it has become sacred again. Play it at the next league home game and see how many of our support actually sing it. I sit in the NWQ and sometime I can barely hear myself singing it because the Covered end do not.
Yes, it has meaning for me since it was played at home when I was a small child. Is it sacrosanct to me. Is it really important to the majority of our support? Obviously not.
Do people vote in favour of keeping it? Yes, because it is tradition and most people hate change.
Will they sing it if it reinstated? Maybe once but then no, because it is an anachronism to many of our support with its dated words and emotions.
Maybe Thomas should have tried a rearrangement of Billy Cotton version, but the screams would have been the same.
Addicks to Victory was a good attempt by TS to bring a different culture, partly American influenced, into the club and he will undoubtedly feel hurt by the criticism he has faced on social media. To the keyboard warriors who have dissed him out of turn on twitter and the like, I would recommend that they learn from history what bad owners are really like.
TS seems to me to be a good owner, spending wisely in this league, attending matches, joining in with much of the spirit of the club. If he was driven by ego, then there would have been many more changes and we would have been told to suck it up, much in the manner of RD and KM.
Simply, if you want RRR then sing it, but dont complain if you dont sing it and someone concludes that it is an unwanted anachronism. If the 3,000 fans that have voted for it had actually sung it then it would have been obvioys to TS that it was of importance.
Rant over.
It shows a lack of understanding.5 -
Could have said that under Duchateley.johnny73 said:Just glad we still have a club!0 -
Previously the tannoys were so bad that you could barely hear RRR before the match
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Maybe we need to cut TS some slack as some of the American showboating & bravado has clearly rubbed off on TS . I found it amusing his Bruce Springsteen guitar impressions playing along to VFR but as for team not coming out Red Red Robin,Clearly the sensible thing is to restore RRR and let's move onwards and upwards.If I was TS either drop A2V (it's naff!) or drop it down the play off.However this episode has shone the spotlight on TS as solo artist where are his Rolling Stones? it would be better for TS to have a good band and team and definitely a chief exec who really understands Charlton and can help him steer his way through the pitfalls of owning a London / English club with a rich history and loyal fans.I always found it strange that TS was looking at several clubs, Wigan, Coventry and Sunderland? TS was in fortunate position to buy Charlton, but he's a custodian like a PM, Vicar or Head teacher of an institution, he will serve his time and at sometime he will move on just like previous football owners hopefully in our case leaving us in far better position than he found us. Radio London DJ Robert Elms book “London Made Us” chapter 7 “Leaving Home” explains what has happened toLondoners who have moved out and how returning on match days reconnects them to their manor and past. RRR is an important umbilical cord to being an Addick just likeHammers would go ballistic if Bubbles wasn't played and Chelsea fans Liquidator. Lastly Lucy FA was very professional in her interview with TS, it was interesting that TS somewhat side stepped questions about ownership of Valley / Sparrows lane. Again actions speak louder than words...I hope that TS now puts his energy into getting some quality L1 players into the squad for a serious promotion push and bringing team and grounds under one ownership.6
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Validating the walkout music by measuring the number of fans that sing it is a nonsense argument.Scratchingvalleycat said:The RRR is a Charlton institution which has largely been ignored in recent years. When it has been played, before last Saturday, and there have been crowds in, it has not been sung by the fans, with the Covered End usually belting out Valley Floyd Road to drown out RRR. Suddenly, because it was dropped, it has become sacred again. Play it at the next league home game and see how many of our support actually sing it. I sit in the NWQ and sometime I can barely hear myself singing it because the Covered end do not.
Yes, it has meaning for me since it was played at home when I was a small child.
Is it sacrosanct to me as part of my match day? Yes.
Is it really important to the majority of our support? Obviously not and recognise that I would have to give way to the majority of the support who don't sing it.
Do people vote in favour of keeping it? Yes, because it is tradition and most people hate change.
Will they sing it if it reinstated? Maybe once but then no, because it is an anachronism to many of our support with its dated words and emotions. It's words speak of a percieved idillyic past and reflect what it is.
Maybe Thomas should have tried a rearrangement of Billy Cotton version, but the screams would have been the same.
Addicks to Victory was a good attempt by TS to bring a different culture, partly American influenced, into the club and he will undoubtedly feel hurt by the criticism he has faced on social media. To the keyboard warriors who have dissed him out of turn on twitter and the like, I would recommend that they learn from history what bad owners are really like.
TS seems to me to be a good owner, spending wisely in this league, attending matches, joining in with much of the spirit of the club. If he was driven by ego, then there would have been many more changes and we would have been told to suck it up, much in the manner of RD and KM.
Simply, if you want RRR then sing it, but dont complain if you dont sing it and someone concludes that it is an unwanted anachronism. If the 3,000 fans that have voted for it had actually sung it then it would have been obvious to TS that it was of importance.
Rant over.
Do you think 3,000 fans will sing A2V?
I don't think many people have ever sung RRR, but it is a part of our tradition, is clearly valued by the majority, and it was an error of judgement to remove it.5 -
The music thing, whilst traditions are important , and i want RRR back , i was not outraged as some, as i was just pleased to be back inside a football ground, i'm more concerned about the depth and quality of our first team squad being strengthened at the moment.
Which if we don't get the targets required , will mean another if not a few more seasons in League 1.
Maybe it will take a few seasons to get out of this division, baring in mid , we have virtually been run into the ground, and have few promising saleable assets , to put the club on an even keel ( no not Floyd and Harvey)
This is an 'easy win' for Thomas , bring the music back , says , yep i didn't mean to upset any one , everyone s a winner , and we can move on to moan about something else!1 -
I'm sure there are many in the North Upper who would like to hear it sung properly. If you go in there and take a look around you will see people singing along. Not belting it out as a crowd, but silently mouthing along with the words to a song that is very important to them. It's not their fault that the drummers can't park their egos for 90 seconds, and their love for our tradition shouldn't be judged on the fact that their voices cannot be heard.Scratchingvalleycat said:...Play it at the next league home game and see how many of our support actually sing it. I sit in the NWQ and sometime I can barely hear myself singing it because the Covered end do not...
Is it really important to the majority of our support? Obviously not and recognise that I would have to give way to the majority of the support who don't sing it...
Will they sing it if it reinstated? Maybe once but then no, because it is an anachronism to many of our support with its dated words and emotions. It's words speak of a percieved idillyic past and reflect what it is.
Maybe Thomas should have tried a rearrangement of Billy Cotton version, but the screams would have been the same.
Addicks to Victory was a good attempt by TS to bring a different culture, partly American influenced, into the club and he will undoubtedly feel hurt by the criticism he has faced on social media. To the keyboard warriors who have dissed him out of turn on twitter and the like, I would recommend that they learn from history what bad owners are really like.
TS seems to me to be a good owner, spending wisely in this league, attending matches, joining in with much of the spirit of the club. If he was driven by ego, then there would have been many more changes and we would have been told to suck it up, much in the manner of RD and KM.
Simply, if you want RRR then sing it, but dont complain if you dont sing it and someone concludes that it is an unwanted anachronism. If the 3,000 fans that have voted for it had actually sung it then it would have been obvious to TS that it was of importance.
Rant over.3 - Sponsored links:
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One I can remember was when flying out to Italy with some pals about 30 years back I picked up the passenger cabin intercom and announced……”Thank you for flying with us today. In a few moments our flight attendants will be coming amongst you…..but don’t worry it comes off with a stiff brush.”se9addick said:
What’s the most bizarre thing you’ve done?!!SoundAsa£ said:I feel very uncomfortable regarding people using the words vanity and ego.
Without knowing the man, I honestly can’t tell if either of those features played a huge part in this episode.
As someone who has done a few somewhat bizarre things in my life which have impacted on others, I have a different view on it. I just wanted others to enjoy my actions, that sometimes didn’t work out but ego and vanity didn’t really play much of a part in it.
He may just have wanted ‘everyone’ to simply enjoy it and be as excited as he did, through one of his great loves and passions in life, his music.
We know he’s something of an extrovert and that’s fine by me, though extroverts can be a bit OTT for some of us famously reserved Brits.
Having said that, it certainly was a mistake to have replaced RRR.
What part any ego and vanity levels played in this…..Mmmmm I am not sure.
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Tough crowd?SoundAsa£ said:
One I can remember was when flying out to Italy with some pals about 30 years back I picked up the passenger cabin intercom and announced……”Thank you for flying with us today. In a few moments our flight attendants will be coming amongst you…..but don’t worry it comes off with a stiff brush.”se9addick said:
What’s the most bizarre thing you’ve done?!!SoundAsa£ said:I feel very uncomfortable regarding people using the words vanity and ego.
Without knowing the man, I honestly can’t tell if either of those features played a huge part in this episode.
As someone who has done a few somewhat bizarre things in my life which have impacted on others, I have a different view on it. I just wanted others to enjoy my actions, that sometimes didn’t work out but ego and vanity didn’t really play much of a part in it.
He may just have wanted ‘everyone’ to simply enjoy it and be as excited as he did, through one of his great loves and passions in life, his music.
We know he’s something of an extrovert and that’s fine by me, though extroverts can be a bit OTT for some of us famously reserved Brits.
Having said that, it certainly was a mistake to have replaced RRR.
What part any ego and vanity levels played in this…..Mmmmm I am not sure.0 -
Do I get a promote?AFKABartram said:
That’s a very fair post @SoundAsa£SoundAsa£ said:I feel very uncomfortable regarding people using the words vanity and ego.
Without knowing the man, I honestly can’t tell if either of those features played a huge part in this episode.
As someone who has done a few somewhat bizarre things in my life which have impacted on others, I have a different view on it. I just wanted others to enjoy my actions, that sometimes didn’t work out but ego and vanity didn’t really play much of a part in it.
He may just have wanted ‘everyone’ to simply enjoy it and be as excited as he did, through one of his great loves and passions in life, his music.
We know he’s something of an extrovert and that’s fine by me, though extroverts can be a bit OTT for some of us famously reserved Brits.
Having said that, it certainly was a mistake to have replaced RRR.
What part any ego and vanity levels played in this…..Mmmmm I am not sure.I used the vanity word but suspect you are correct4 -
Mixed…….but my pals were hysterical with laughter.EugenesAxe said:
Tough crowd?SoundAsa£ said:
One I can remember was when flying out to Italy with some pals about 30 years back I picked up the passenger cabin intercom and announced……”Thank you for flying with us today. In a few moments our flight attendants will be coming amongst you…..but don’t worry it comes off with a stiff brush.”se9addick said:
What’s the most bizarre thing you’ve done?!!SoundAsa£ said:I feel very uncomfortable regarding people using the words vanity and ego.
Without knowing the man, I honestly can’t tell if either of those features played a huge part in this episode.
As someone who has done a few somewhat bizarre things in my life which have impacted on others, I have a different view on it. I just wanted others to enjoy my actions, that sometimes didn’t work out but ego and vanity didn’t really play much of a part in it.
He may just have wanted ‘everyone’ to simply enjoy it and be as excited as he did, through one of his great loves and passions in life, his music.
We know he’s something of an extrovert and that’s fine by me, though extroverts can be a bit OTT for some of us famously reserved Brits.
Having said that, it certainly was a mistake to have replaced RRR.
What part any ego and vanity levels played in this…..Mmmmm I am not sure.
A few others plus cabin crew not at all amused.2 -
We arrived late on Saturday so we missed the pre-match stuff.
Sean Clare says this on the OS:
"It was a bit surreal for me. Growing up as a kid I was watching people walk out to Red, Red Robin so when I heard it in the warm-up it was a bit surreal."
I'm confused. Was RRR played or not?
Or is the issue that it was played, but at the wrong time?2 -
Legend has it that it started in the 70s when Alex Harvey played a concert at the old Victoria Ground.addick1956 said:
A better song than RRR or Sandgaard song is Valley Floyd Road. Most football songs are crap, My my my Delilah really is awful and where is the connection there.se9addick said:
For me our history and traditions are covenants that any owner must abide by, that’s non-negotiable.addick1956 said:
Ultimately this mess can be resolved very easily without any lasting damage and actually Sandgaard might learn from it so could be a good thing in the long run.
However the tune played to Sheffield United at the start of the 2nd half is really rousing. Don't remember it at the start though. I look forward to seeing Thomas play at The Valley with The Who .2 -
I think this is a massively important point and not just for the people who left home, but second, third, fourth generation leavers as well. I've never lived nearer than 30 miles to The Valley, but hearing The Red Red Robin takes me back to a time when I was taken there as a kid. It connects me to my dad and to happy memories of going to the game with him. Apart from that song and the red shirts, there's very little tangible stuff that connects the experience of going to The Valley fifty years ago with the experience of going now. The people are different, the game is different in many ways, even the ground is different. Sure it's still called The Valley and it's still in the same location, but it's not the same structure nor has it got the same facilities (thankfully). That song is the same though; always giving consistency to the occasion, always acting as a thread connecting us with our personal and collective heritages. The Red Red Robin is the vital ingredient in our pre-match build up precisely because it evokes memories of times past. When I hear it I am quite literally 'a kid again, doing what I did again'. A new song, by its very nature, cannot do that. Only when they become old, do songs gain that psychological hold over us. Only then can they connect the past with the present. So The Red Red Robin is not just a silly little song that a minority of the youth don't like because it's not cool or trendy enough for them, it's an essential ingredient in what makes us Charlton. I still think there can be a part for Addicks to Victory in the match build up, but it should not replace our heritage.TootingRedArmy said:...Radio London DJ Robert Elms book “London Made Us” chapter 7 “Leaving Home” explains what has happened toLondoners who have moved out and how returning on match days reconnects them to their manor and past...33 -
It was played about 20 mins before KO when introducing former playersDave Rudd said:We arrived late on Saturday so we missed the pre-match stuff.
Sean Clare says this on the OS:
"It was a bit surreal for me. Growing up as a kid I was watching people walk out to Red, Red Robin so when I heard it in the warm-up it was a bit surreal."
I'm confused. Was RRR played or not?
Or is the issue that it was played, but at the wrong time?1 -
it was played but earlier, not when the teams were coming out as per usual.Dave Rudd said:We arrived late on Saturday so we missed the pre-match stuff.
Sean Clare says this on the OS:
"It was a bit surreal for me. Growing up as a kid I was watching people walk out to Red, Red Robin so when I heard it in the warm-up it was a bit surreal."
I'm confused. Was RRR played or not?
Or is the issue that it was played, but at the wrong time?0 -
I so wish I could like this more than once.Stig said:
I think this is a massively important point and not just for the people who left home, but second, third, fourth generation leavers as well. I've never lived nearer than 30 miles to The Valley, but hearing The Red Red Robin takes me back to a time when I was taken there as a kid. It connects me to my dad and to happy memories of going to the game by him. Apart from that song and the red shirts, there's very little tangible stuff that connects the experience of going to The Valley fifty years ago with the experience of going now. The people are different, the game is different in many ways, even the ground is different. Sure it's still called The Valley and it's still in the same location, but it's not the same structure nor has it got the same facilities (thankfully). That song is the same though; always giving consistency to the occasion, always acting as a thread connecting us with our personal and collective heritages. The Red Red Robin is the vital ingredient in our pre-match build up precisely because it evokes memories of times past. A new song, by its very nature, cannot do that. Only when they become old, do songs gain that psychological hold over us. Only then can they connect the past with the present. So The Red Red Robin not just a silly little song that a minority of the youth don't like because it's not cool or trendy enough for them, it's an essential ingredient in what makes us Charlton. I still think there can be a part for Addicks to Victory in the match build up, but it should not replace our heritage.TootingRedArmy said:...Radio London DJ Robert Elms book “London Made Us” chapter 7 “Leaving Home” explains what has happened toLondoners who have moved out and how returning on match days reconnects them to their manor and past...2 - Sponsored links:
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Perfect time for A2V, RRR is final pre-match track.AFKABartram said:
It was played about 20 mins before KO when introducing former playersDave Rudd said:We arrived late on Saturday so we missed the pre-match stuff.
Sean Clare says this on the OS:
"It was a bit surreal for me. Growing up as a kid I was watching people walk out to Red, Red Robin so when I heard it in the warm-up it was a bit surreal."
I'm confused. Was RRR played or not?
Or is the issue that it was played, but at the wrong time?0 -
Agh just worked out what A2v stands for , thought it was a diversion for coming up the A2!4
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Not validating it by measuring the number that sing but heaaring the number that sing over it and drown it out. I doubt that many fans would even bother to learn the words to A2V but that was not my point.SporadicAddick said:
Validating the walkout music by measuring the number of fans that sing it is a nonsense argument.Scratchingvalleycat said:The RRR is a Charlton institution which has largely been ignored in recent years. When it has been played, before last Saturday, and there have been crowds in, it has not been sung by the fans, with the Covered End usually belting out Valley Floyd Road to drown out RRR. Suddenly, because it was dropped, it has become sacred again. Play it at the next league home game and see how many of our support actually sing it. I sit in the NWQ and sometime I can barely hear myself singing it because the Covered end do not.
Yes, it has meaning for me since it was played at home when I was a small child.
Is it sacrosanct to me as part of my match day? Yes.
Is it really important to the majority of our support? Obviously not and recognise that I would have to give way to the majority of the support who don't sing it.
Do people vote in favour of keeping it? Yes, because it is tradition and most people hate change.
Will they sing it if it reinstated? Maybe once but then no, because it is an anachronism to many of our support with its dated words and emotions. It's words speak of a percieved idillyic past and reflect what it is.
Maybe Thomas should have tried a rearrangement of Billy Cotton version, but the screams would have been the same.
Addicks to Victory was a good attempt by TS to bring a different culture, partly American influenced, into the club and he will undoubtedly feel hurt by the criticism he has faced on social media. To the keyboard warriors who have dissed him out of turn on twitter and the like, I would recommend that they learn from history what bad owners are really like.
TS seems to me to be a good owner, spending wisely in this league, attending matches, joining in with much of the spirit of the club. If he was driven by ego, then there would have been many more changes and we would have been told to suck it up, much in the manner of RD and KM.
Simply, if you want RRR then sing it, but dont complain if you dont sing it and someone concludes that it is an unwanted anachronism. If the 3,000 fans that have voted for it had actually sung it then it would have been obvious to TS that it was of importance.
Rant over.
Do you think 3,000 fans will sing A2V?
I don't think many people have ever sung RRR, but it is a part of our tradition, is clearly valued by the majority, and it was an error of judgement to remove it.0 -
If we absolutely must play ATV then I think it should be after RRR, after handshakes as the players run to clap the fans, get in a huddle etc.1
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We need a name for a thread where everything has been said and there is nothing new to add, yet it still rumbles on.9
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Can't believe 9% voted against RRRMattF said:5 -
I'd prefer my owner to be seen and not heard really, not a fan of him being on twitter to be honest. As for not coming out to RRR, that was pretty poor.11
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A circumbobulation?Uboat said:We need a name for a thread where everything has been said and there is nothing new to add, yet it still rumbles on.2
