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COVID and overseas travel
Comments
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I too was surprised about what he said re LHR ( because I am still considering coming over at the end of the month). I specifically queried his assertion re passports. It’s certainly true that pre—Covid on entry, before security, all you input at the e-gate was the boarding card. But as I recall, your passport would be checked on boarding. But I always flew BA from there, whereas I’m pretty sure he flew SAS, but will ask him again. There is no way he is mistaken. He said that inbound he noted his actual e-check with passport took longer, and he assumed the machine was checking his Covid test info as well as the usual stuff. I told him that was probably a heroic assumption.addix said:PragueAddick said:...
They were not stopped at the border at LHR, of course. At LHR, nobody routinely checks your passport any more, just your boarding pass. And Interpol were not waiting for my buddy when he landed at CPH either.
...They should've told the thousands of people that have been reportedly stuck at Heathrow's border control for 3-4 hours this week, then.I'm sure they would've appreciated walking straight through unchecked too. Also, how do you get through with no passport check?
I came back from a Spanish trip 5 weeks ago and every bit of documentation was checked multiple times by either border control or airline staff. Will be going out again next weekend and expect the same to happen.For those asking about day 2 tests, I used Randox (£43) which is a DIY kit that you drop off in a box or can pay extra for a courier to collect & deliver. Would advise checking drop-box locations first. Luckily for me there's one about 15 minutes away in Croydon. Not sure about other countries, but the Spanish airports all seem to have a test place where you can get an Antigen (~€29) or PCR (~€70) test done for your Fit-to-Fly return to the UK.
Has anyone used Eurostar outbound recently.? I might leave the UK that way, although regrettably Ebbsfleet Int. remains closed. Come to think of it at. Ebsfleet they always checked passports. UK and French staff separately.0 -
PragueAddick said:
I too was surprised about what he said re LHR ( because I am still considering coming over at the end of the month). I specifically queried his assertion re passports. It’s certainly true that pre—Covid on entry, before security, all you input at the e-gate was the boarding card. But as I recall, your passport would be checked on boarding. But I always flew BA from there, whereas I’m pretty sure he flew SAS, but will ask him again. There is no way he is mistaken. He said that inbound he noted his actual e-check with passport took longer, and he assumed the machine was checking his Covid test info as well as the usual stuff. I told him that was probably a heroic assumption.addix said:PragueAddick said:...
They were not stopped at the border at LHR, of course. At LHR, nobody routinely checks your passport any more, just your boarding pass. And Interpol were not waiting for my buddy when he landed at CPH either.
...They should've told the thousands of people that have been reportedly stuck at Heathrow's border control for 3-4 hours this week, then.I'm sure they would've appreciated walking straight through unchecked too. Also, how do you get through with no passport check?
I came back from a Spanish trip 5 weeks ago and every bit of documentation was checked multiple times by either border control or airline staff. Will be going out again next weekend and expect the same to happen.For those asking about day 2 tests, I used Randox (£43) which is a DIY kit that you drop off in a box or can pay extra for a courier to collect & deliver. Would advise checking drop-box locations first. Luckily for me there's one about 15 minutes away in Croydon. Not sure about other countries, but the Spanish airports all seem to have a test place where you can get an Antigen (~€29) or PCR (~€70) test done for your Fit-to-Fly return to the UK.
Has anyone used Eurostar outbound recently.? I might leave the UK that way, although regrettably Ebbsfleet Int. remains closed. Come to think of it at. Ebsfleet they always checked passports. UK and French staff separately
The egates heck you passport and scan your face to see if it matches with the biometris information on the chip2 -
Unless he was travelling from the CTA - where was he travelling from?PrincessFiona said:PragueAddick said:
I too was surprised about what he said re LHR ( because I am still considering coming over at the end of the month). I specifically queried his assertion re passports. It’s certainly true that pre—Covid on entry, before security, all you input at the e-gate was the boarding card. But as I recall, your passport would be checked on boarding. But I always flew BA from there, whereas I’m pretty sure he flew SAS, but will ask him again. There is no way he is mistaken. He said that inbound he noted his actual e-check with passport took longer, and he assumed the machine was checking his Covid test info as well as the usual stuff. I told him that was probably a heroic assumption.addix said:PragueAddick said:...
They were not stopped at the border at LHR, of course. At LHR, nobody routinely checks your passport any more, just your boarding pass. And Interpol were not waiting for my buddy when he landed at CPH either.
...They should've told the thousands of people that have been reportedly stuck at Heathrow's border control for 3-4 hours this week, then.I'm sure they would've appreciated walking straight through unchecked too. Also, how do you get through with no passport check?
I came back from a Spanish trip 5 weeks ago and every bit of documentation was checked multiple times by either border control or airline staff. Will be going out again next weekend and expect the same to happen.For those asking about day 2 tests, I used Randox (£43) which is a DIY kit that you drop off in a box or can pay extra for a courier to collect & deliver. Would advise checking drop-box locations first. Luckily for me there's one about 15 minutes away in Croydon. Not sure about other countries, but the Spanish airports all seem to have a test place where you can get an Antigen (~€29) or PCR (~€70) test done for your Fit-to-Fly return to the UK.
Has anyone used Eurostar outbound recently.? I might leave the UK that way, although regrettably Ebbsfleet Int. remains closed. Come to think of it at. Ebsfleet they always checked passports. UK and French staff separately
The egates heck you passport and scan your face to see if it matches with the biometris information on the chip0 -
Expert Medicals still advertising their Day2 test for £28
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PrincessFiona said:
would be nice re the profit but I wouldn't have thought the NHS would have the capacityOggy Red said:
Rather than private profits going into private pockets, in the UK it could even have been set up and operated by NHS.PragueAddick said:
Just off the top of my head Owen Patterson and Randox.Oggy Red said:
And this surely is the reason for the pointless Day 2 test.PragueAddick said:Meanwhile some dodgy lab ("accredited" for sure) has banked another £290.
Any Government ministers financially involved with any of these companies?
It wouldn't be the first time, would it?
On this topic @PrincessFiona in particular likes to wring hands and say, "it's not perfect, but what can we do?."
The answer regarding the price gouging by private companies is perfectly simple. You say to all laboratories who want to offer these tests "you will charge no more than, say £60, and if anyone reports you for charging more, you're off the list. Like, now" . That is exactly what the Czechs did, and their country is not noted as a bastion of transparent and clean governance...
Any fees and profit would then go directly to supporting the NHS.
Wouldn't that have better served the UK?
When it was decided to offer the vaccine to UK residents, the NHS was able to step up - and has done so magnificently.
Remember the track and trace fiasco? Imagine if it was left to this shambolic Government to organise the vaccination programme through their Tory party donor friends?
Rather than these profit hungry private companies, I'm sure with sufficient funding the NHS could deal more efficiently with 'enter the UK' testing requirements.
Assuming these Day 2 tests are even necessary.
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The track and trace was shambicbut the vaccine roll out has been excellent. Look how the EU hated the UK . As I said, some thing have been poor, some ok and some goodOggy Red said:PrincessFiona said:
would be nice re the profit but I wouldn't have thought the NHS would have the capacityOggy Red said:
Rather than private profits going into private pockets, in the UK it could even have been set up and operated by NHS.PragueAddick said:
Just off the top of my head Owen Patterson and Randox.Oggy Red said:
And this surely is the reason for the pointless Day 2 test.PragueAddick said:Meanwhile some dodgy lab ("accredited" for sure) has banked another £290.
Any Government ministers financially involved with any of these companies?
It wouldn't be the first time, would it?
On this topic @PrincessFiona in particular likes to wring hands and say, "it's not perfect, but what can we do?."
The answer regarding the price gouging by private companies is perfectly simple. You say to all laboratories who want to offer these tests "you will charge no more than, say £60, and if anyone reports you for charging more, you're off the list. Like, now" . That is exactly what the Czechs did, and their country is not noted as a bastion of transparent and clean governance...
Any fees and profit would then go directly to supporting the NHS.
Wouldn't that have better served the UK?
When it was decided to offer the vaccine to UK residents, the NHS was able to step up - and has done so magnificently.
Remember the track and trace fiasco? Imagine if it was left to this shambolic Government to organise the vaccination programme through their Tory party donor friends?
Rather than these profit hungry private companies, I'm sure with sufficient funding the NHS could deal more efficiently with 'enter the UK' testing requirements.
Assuming these Day 2 tests are even necessary.
The NHS does not have the capacity at the moment -you may have noticed they are quite busy! It is not just a case of throwing money at the NHS, it would require new staff, facilities and systems and procedures .immediately1 -
Randox?PragueAddick said:
Just off the top of my head Owen Patterson and Randox.Oggy Red said:
And this surely is the reason for the pointless Day 2 test.PragueAddick said:Meanwhile some dodgy lab ("accredited" for sure) has banked another £290.
Any Government ministers financially involved with any of these companies?
It wouldn't be the first time, would it?
SE7toSG3 said:
You can hear the cash tills ringing.My company has its first overseas tour on the ground today, all in France onroute to Normandy as we speak.
Most of the group used the Randox return test at £43 and we have booked 'in country' antigens with a local pharmacy for €25 tomorrow.
At Randox, Owen Patterson and his profiteering friends must be delighted.
Thank God for Tory government ministers, eh?
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The NHS has worked very well to roll out the vaccine programme.
Track and Trace didn't work at all well and was run privately, although the Government tried to hi-jack the NHS name to give it respectability, by calling it NHS Track & Trace.4 -
Indeed. When given the necessary resources the NHS is effective.ME14addick said:The NHS has worked very well to roll out the vaccine programme.
Track and Trace didn't work at all well and was run privately, although the Government tried to hi-jack the NHS name to give it respectability, by calling it NHS Track & Trace.
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And time. Unfortunately a lot of waste in the NHS too, but they do a bloody amazing job (many heroes), considering the users don't pay directly for it (although obvs may do via taxation)Oggy Red said:
Indeed. When given the necessary resources the NHS is effective.ME14addick said:The NHS has worked very well to roll out the vaccine programme.
Track and Trace didn't work at all well and was run privately, although the Government tried to hi-jack the NHS name to give it respectability, by calling it NHS Track & Trace.0 -
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Yep, I am far from a Tory, my wife is front line NHS and I have significant issues with how this government have conducted themselves throughout this.Oggy Red said:
Randox?PragueAddick said:
Just off the top of my head Owen Patterson and Randox.Oggy Red said:
And this surely is the reason for the pointless Day 2 test.PragueAddick said:Meanwhile some dodgy lab ("accredited" for sure) has banked another £290.
Any Government ministers financially involved with any of these companies?
It wouldn't be the first time, would it?
SE7toSG3 said:
You can hear the cash tills ringing.My company has its first overseas tour on the ground today, all in France onroute to Normandy as we speak.
Most of the group used the Randox return test at £43 and we have booked 'in country' antigens with a local pharmacy for €25 tomorrow.
At Randox, Owen Patterson and his profiteering friends must be delighted.
Thank God for Tory government ministers, eh?
But, after 18 months of not being able to trade we need to get touring again, they were the company recommended from our tour operator governing body the TTA and its just not the hill I am going to die on, I am just grateful to get working again.1 -
I thought you wanted people to be reasonable and not "political" about this?. I suppose you don't refer to the entire 450 mill citizens (including me), but the head of the European Commission, (far from perfect but also grossly misrepresented by the idiot end of the UK media), but either way, it's completely wrong. Most citizens and their national politicians were aghast at how the UK got Covid so wrong in 2020, not least because the NHS is hugely respected across Europe. When it came to the vaccine rollout, EU citizens were angry with their own govts. who in turn were angry with how the EU procurement had worked. In so far as they thought about the UK in this context at all, it was to use it as a benchmark along the lines of "how come the UK is so far ahead of us even with that bell-end Johnson in charge?". This was quickly forgotten when it was realised that by good fortune the EU was largely relying on the better vaccine from a more reliable supplier; and as a result Van der Layen's promise in March that the EU would catch up with UK figures by end August, was fulfilled. But even that is not black and white, as it disguises a big variation in vaccine take up across different countries, which will come back to bite us all.PrincessFiona said:
The track and trace was shambicbut the vaccine roll out has been excellent. Look how the EU hated the UK . As I said, some thing have been poor, some ok and some goodOggy Red said:PrincessFiona said:
would be nice re the profit but I wouldn't have thought the NHS would have the capacityOggy Red said:
Rather than private profits going into private pockets, in the UK it could even have been set up and operated by NHS.PragueAddick said:
Just off the top of my head Owen Patterson and Randox.Oggy Red said:
And this surely is the reason for the pointless Day 2 test.PragueAddick said:Meanwhile some dodgy lab ("accredited" for sure) has banked another £290.
Any Government ministers financially involved with any of these companies?
It wouldn't be the first time, would it?
On this topic @PrincessFiona in particular likes to wring hands and say, "it's not perfect, but what can we do?."
The answer regarding the price gouging by private companies is perfectly simple. You say to all laboratories who want to offer these tests "you will charge no more than, say £60, and if anyone reports you for charging more, you're off the list. Like, now" . That is exactly what the Czechs did, and their country is not noted as a bastion of transparent and clean governance...
Any fees and profit would then go directly to supporting the NHS.
Wouldn't that have better served the UK?
When it was decided to offer the vaccine to UK residents, the NHS was able to step up - and has done so magnificently.
Remember the track and trace fiasco? Imagine if it was left to this shambolic Government to organise the vaccination programme through their Tory party donor friends?
Rather than these profit hungry private companies, I'm sure with sufficient funding the NHS could deal more efficiently with 'enter the UK' testing requirements.
Assuming these Day 2 tests are even necessary.
The NHS does not have the capacity at the moment -you may have noticed they are quite busy! It is not just a case of throwing money at the NHS, it would require new staff, facilities and systems and procedures .immediately
As for your last point, it was precisely because the NHS oversaw the vaccine rollout that it was so successful. Every EU country including Germany has to turn to private laboratories to provide the capacity, but the difference is the private laboratories are overseen by the health authorities. It's not that difficult, that involves extra work from management, not front line NHS workers. And all I and other critics of this nonsense are asking of the UK govt. is, use common sense and learn from the experience of others, rather than retreat into insularity to deflect from your failures.1 -
The tests are nothing but a money making con. Companies set up specifically for this purpose, no doubt gifted accreditation by govt pals.
By all means charge us for tests, as we're choosing to go away, but make the charges fair and stick the money back into the NHS.6 -
It would be good for the NHS to get that, but private companies won't do that. And the NHS just wouldn't be able to and just too busyCroydon said:The tests are nothing but a money making con. Companies set up specifically for this purpose, no doubt gifted accreditation by govt pals.
By all means charge us for tests, as we're choosing to go away, but make the charges fair and stick the money back into the NHS.0 -
What better vaccine? The French one, or is that still not ready?
I thought you wanted people to be reasonable and not "political" about this?. I suppose you don't refer to the entire 450 mill citizens (including me), but the head of the European Commission, (far from perfect but also grossly misrepresented by the idiot end of the UK media), but either way, it's completely wrong. Most citizens and their national politicians were aghast at how the UK got Covid so wrong in 2020, not least because the NHS is hugely respected across Europe. When it came to the vaccine rollout, EU citizens were angry with their own govts. who in turn were angry with how the EU procurement had worked. In so far as they thought about the UK in this context at all, it was to use it as a benchmark along the lines of "how come the UK is so far ahead of us even with that bell-end Johnson in charge?". This was quickly forgotten when it was realised that by good fortune the EU was largely relying on the better vaccine from a more reliable supplier; and as a result Van der Layen's promise in March that the EU would catch up with UK figures by end August, was fulfilled. But even that is not black and white, as it disguises a big variation in vaccine take up across different countries, which will come back to bite us all.
The track and trace was shambicbut the vaccine roll out has been excellent. Look how the EU hated the UK . As I said, some thing have been poor, some ok and some good
The NHS does not have the capacity at the moment -you may have noticed they are quite busy! It is not just a case of throwing money at the NHS, it would require new staff, facilities and systems and procedures .immediately
As for your last point, it was precisely because the NHS oversaw the vaccine rollout that it was so successful. Every EU country including Germany has to turn to private laboratories to provide the capacity, but the difference is the private laboratories are overseen by the health authorities. It's not that difficult, that involves extra work from management, not front line NHS workers. And all I and other critics of this nonsense are asking of the UK govt. is, use common sense and learn from the experience of others, rather than retreat into insularity to deflect from your failures.0 -
Oh for heavens sake, you really are quite the petty patriot, aren't you?.PrincessFiona said:
What better vaccine? The French one, or is that still not ready?
I thought you wanted people to be reasonable and not "political" about this?. I suppose you don't refer to the entire 450 mill citizens (including me), but the head of the European Commission, (far from perfect but also grossly misrepresented by the idiot end of the UK media), but either way, it's completely wrong. Most citizens and their national politicians were aghast at how the UK got Covid so wrong in 2020, not least because the NHS is hugely respected across Europe. When it came to the vaccine rollout, EU citizens were angry with their own govts. who in turn were angry with how the EU procurement had worked. In so far as they thought about the UK in this context at all, it was to use it as a benchmark along the lines of "how come the UK is so far ahead of us even with that bell-end Johnson in charge?". This was quickly forgotten when it was realised that by good fortune the EU was largely relying on the better vaccine from a more reliable supplier; and as a result Van der Layen's promise in March that the EU would catch up with UK figures by end August, was fulfilled. But even that is not black and white, as it disguises a big variation in vaccine take up across different countries, which will come back to bite us all.
The track and trace was shambicbut the vaccine roll out has been excellent. Look how the EU hated the UK . As I said, some thing have been poor, some ok and some good
The NHS does not have the capacity at the moment -you may have noticed they are quite busy! It is not just a case of throwing money at the NHS, it would require new staff, facilities and systems and procedures .immediately
As for your last point, it was precisely because the NHS oversaw the vaccine rollout that it was so successful. Every EU country including Germany has to turn to private laboratories to provide the capacity, but the difference is the private laboratories are overseen by the health authorities. It's not that difficult, that involves extra work from management, not front line NHS workers. And all I and other critics of this nonsense are asking of the UK govt. is, use common sense and learn from the experience of others, rather than retreat into insularity to deflect from your failures.
It's a matter of scientific record that the Pfizer Biontech vaccine (developed in Germany by a Turkish immigrant couple, if you really must go down that path) has a somewhat better protection rate than the A-Z, and comparing anecdotally with friends and family back home, seems to have slightly less side effects for normally healthy people. There have also as you know been some concerns about side effects in a small number of cases with A-Z, which has caused some countries to limit it to some age groups. But to be clear, if I'd been offered the A-Z as the only one available, I'd have taken it in a heartbeat, and I also plan to buy "Vaxxers", the book by the two awesome women behind it. But the important point was that fairly quickly most people in the EU lost interest in whether or not A-Z had ratted on a contract and favoured the UK for delivery, when it became clear that the Pfizer vaccine could be delivered at scale and might be performing better in the field too. Like I said, it was just good luck, no one could foresee that, and there could be more twists and turns. Latest data shows the Moderna vaccine might be longer lasting, for example. The important thing is only to jab everyone in the world with one of them and to stop the petty nationalist bickering over them.3 -
To be fair, you are quite anti Brexit / anti Tory / anti Johnson aren't you.PragueAddick said:
Oh for heavens sake, you really are quite the petty patriot, aren't you?.PrincessFiona said:
What better vaccine? The French one, or is that still not ready?
I thought you wanted people to be reasonable and not "political" about this?. I suppose you don't refer to the entire 450 mill citizens (including me), but the head of the European Commission, (far from perfect but also grossly misrepresented by the idiot end of the UK media), but either way, it's completely wrong. Most citizens and their national politicians were aghast at how the UK got Covid so wrong in 2020, not least because the NHS is hugely respected across Europe. When it came to the vaccine rollout, EU citizens were angry with their own govts. who in turn were angry with how the EU procurement had worked. In so far as they thought about the UK in this context at all, it was to use it as a benchmark along the lines of "how come the UK is so far ahead of us even with that bell-end Johnson in charge?". This was quickly forgotten when it was realised that by good fortune the EU was largely relying on the better vaccine from a more reliable supplier; and as a result Van der Layen's promise in March that the EU would catch up with UK figures by end August, was fulfilled. But even that is not black and white, as it disguises a big variation in vaccine take up across different countries, which will come back to bite us all.
The track and trace was shambicbut the vaccine roll out has been excellent. Look how the EU hated the UK . As I said, some thing have been poor, some ok and some good
The NHS does not have the capacity at the moment -you may have noticed they are quite busy! It is not just a case of throwing money at the NHS, it would require new staff, facilities and systems and procedures .immediately
As for your last point, it was precisely because the NHS oversaw the vaccine rollout that it was so successful. Every EU country including Germany has to turn to private laboratories to provide the capacity, but the difference is the private laboratories are overseen by the health authorities. It's not that difficult, that involves extra work from management, not front line NHS workers. And all I and other critics of this nonsense are asking of the UK govt. is, use common sense and learn from the experience of others, rather than retreat into insularity to deflect from your failures.
It's a matter of scientific record that the Pfizer Biontech vaccine (developed in Germany by a Turkish immigrant couple, if you really must go down that path) has a somewhat better protection rate than the A-Z, and comparing anecdotally with friends and family back home, seems to have slightly less side effects for normally healthy people. There have also as you know been some concerns about side effects in a small number of cases with A-Z, which has caused some countries to limit it to some age groups. But to be clear, if I'd been offered the A-Z as the only one available, I'd have taken it in a heartbeat, and I also plan to buy "Vaxxers", the book by the two awesome women behind it. But the important point was that fairly quickly most people in the EU lost interest in whether or not A-Z had ratted on a contract and favoured the UK for delivery, when it became clear that the Pfizer vaccine could be delivered at scale and might be performing better in the field too. Like I said, it was just good luck, no one could foresee that, and there could be more twists and turns. Latest data shows the Moderna vaccine might be longer lasting, for example. The important thing is only to jab everyone in the world with one of them and to stop the petty nationalist bickering over them.
You cant go round throwing out quotes like "the EU was largely relying on the better vaccine from a more reliable supplier" which you accept is up for debate and not necessarily the case, and call others "petty" for taking a position... it's quite patronising.5 -
You keep trotting out that line while continuing to swerve the question as to why and how other European countries, including Germany, a bigger country than the UK, manage to keep private labs under the control of the health authorities, and regulate the prices nationally. Do you think the German health system has nothing better to do with its time?PrincessFiona said:
It would be good for the NHS to get that, but private companies won't do that. And the NHS just wouldn't be able to and just too busyCroydon said:The tests are nothing but a money making con. Companies set up specifically for this purpose, no doubt gifted accreditation by govt pals.
By all means charge us for tests, as we're choosing to go away, but make the charges fair and stick the money back into the NHS.0 -
Wow.1
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No, not really. I am just asking because I don;t know about everything and didn't know about that. I agree with Sporadic. And I dont; think you are being fair or objectivePragueAddick said:
Oh for heavens sake, you really are quite the petty patriot, aren't you?.PrincessFiona said:
What better vaccine? The French one, or is that still not ready?
I thought you wanted people to be reasonable and not "political" about this?. I suppose you don't refer to the entire 450 mill citizens (including me), but the head of the European Commission, (far from perfect but also grossly misrepresented by the idiot end of the UK media), but either way, it's completely wrong. Most citizens and their national politicians were aghast at how the UK got Covid so wrong in 2020, not least because the NHS is hugely respected across Europe. When it came to the vaccine rollout, EU citizens were angry with their own govts. who in turn were angry with how the EU procurement had worked. In so far as they thought about the UK in this context at all, it was to use it as a benchmark along the lines of "how come the UK is so far ahead of us even with that bell-end Johnson in charge?". This was quickly forgotten when it was realised that by good fortune the EU was largely relying on the better vaccine from a more reliable supplier; and as a result Van der Layen's promise in March that the EU would catch up with UK figures by end August, was fulfilled. But even that is not black and white, as it disguises a big variation in vaccine take up across different countries, which will come back to bite us all.
The track and trace was shambicbut the vaccine roll out has been excellent. Look how the EU hated the UK . As I said, some thing have been poor, some ok and some good
The NHS does not have the capacity at the moment -you may have noticed they are quite busy! It is not just a case of throwing money at the NHS, it would require new staff, facilities and systems and procedures .immediately
As for your last point, it was precisely because the NHS oversaw the vaccine rollout that it was so successful. Every EU country including Germany has to turn to private laboratories to provide the capacity, but the difference is the private laboratories are overseen by the health authorities. It's not that difficult, that involves extra work from management, not front line NHS workers. And all I and other critics of this nonsense are asking of the UK govt. is, use common sense and learn from the experience of others, rather than retreat into insularity to deflect from your failures.
It's a matter of scientific record that the Pfizer Biontech vaccine (developed in Germany by a Turkish immigrant couple, if you really must go down that path) has a somewhat better protection rate than the A-Z, and comparing anecdotally with friends and family back home, seems to have slightly less side effects for normally healthy people. There have also as you know been some concerns about side effects in a small number of cases with A-Z, which has caused some countries to limit it to some age groups. But to be clear, if I'd been offered the A-Z as the only one available, I'd have taken it in a heartbeat, and I also plan to buy "Vaxxers", the book by the two awesome women behind it. But the important point was that fairly quickly most people in the EU lost interest in whether or not A-Z had ratted on a contract and favoured the UK for delivery, when it became clear that the Pfizer vaccine could be delivered at scale and might be performing better in the field too. Like I said, it was just good luck, no one could foresee that, and there could be more twists and turns. Latest data shows the Moderna vaccine might be longer lasting, for example. The important thing is only to jab everyone in the world with one of them and to stop the petty nationalist bickering over them.
I much appreciate all your work on Southall etc though
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Rattled a few cages there @PragueAddick
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Any chance of the party political broadcasts ending??0
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Only one viewpointChaz Hill said:Rattled a few cages there @PragueAddick1 -
Slightly surprised this gotten under your skin @PragueAddick.PragueAddick said:
Oh for heavens sake, you really are quite the petty patriot, aren't you?.PrincessFiona said:
What better vaccine? The French one, or is that still not ready?
I thought you wanted people to be reasonable and not "political" about this?. I suppose you don't refer to the entire 450 mill citizens (including me), but the head of the European Commission, (far from perfect but also grossly misrepresented by the idiot end of the UK media), but either way, it's completely wrong. Most citizens and their national politicians were aghast at how the UK got Covid so wrong in 2020, not least because the NHS is hugely respected across Europe. When it came to the vaccine rollout, EU citizens were angry with their own govts. who in turn were angry with how the EU procurement had worked. In so far as they thought about the UK in this context at all, it was to use it as a benchmark along the lines of "how come the UK is so far ahead of us even with that bell-end Johnson in charge?". This was quickly forgotten when it was realised that by good fortune the EU was largely relying on the better vaccine from a more reliable supplier; and as a result Van der Layen's promise in March that the EU would catch up with UK figures by end August, was fulfilled. But even that is not black and white, as it disguises a big variation in vaccine take up across different countries, which will come back to bite us all.
The track and trace was shambicbut the vaccine roll out has been excellent. Look how the EU hated the UK . As I said, some thing have been poor, some ok and some good
The NHS does not have the capacity at the moment -you may have noticed they are quite busy! It is not just a case of throwing money at the NHS, it would require new staff, facilities and systems and procedures .immediately
As for your last point, it was precisely because the NHS oversaw the vaccine rollout that it was so successful. Every EU country including Germany has to turn to private laboratories to provide the capacity, but the difference is the private laboratories are overseen by the health authorities. It's not that difficult, that involves extra work from management, not front line NHS workers. And all I and other critics of this nonsense are asking of the UK govt. is, use common sense and learn from the experience of others, rather than retreat into insularity to deflect from your failures.
It's a matter of scientific record that the Pfizer Biontech vaccine (developed in Germany by a Turkish immigrant couple, if you really must go down that path) has a somewhat better protection rate than the A-Z, and comparing anecdotally with friends and family back home, seems to have slightly less side effects for normally healthy people. There have also as you know been some concerns about side effects in a small number of cases with A-Z, which has caused some countries to limit it to some age groups. But to be clear, if I'd been offered the A-Z as the only one available, I'd have taken it in a heartbeat, and I also plan to buy "Vaxxers", the book by the two awesome women behind it. But the important point was that fairly quickly most people in the EU lost interest in whether or not A-Z had ratted on a contract and favoured the UK for delivery, when it became clear that the Pfizer vaccine could be delivered at scale and might be performing better in the field too. Like I said, it was just good luck, no one could foresee that, and there could be more twists and turns. Latest data shows the Moderna vaccine might be longer lasting, for example. The important thing is only to jab everyone in the world with one of them and to stop the petty nationalist bickering over them.
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OK fair enough. I appear to have taken @PrincessFiona comments as being more politically loaded than intended, and for that I apologise.SporadicAddick said:
To be fair, you are quite anti Brexit / anti Tory / anti Johnson aren't you.PragueAddick said:
Oh for heavens sake, you really are quite the petty patriot, aren't you?.PrincessFiona said:
What better vaccine? The French one, or is that still not ready?
I thought you wanted people to be reasonable and not "political" about this?. I suppose you don't refer to the entire 450 mill citizens (including me), but the head of the European Commission, (far from perfect but also grossly misrepresented by the idiot end of the UK media), but either way, it's completely wrong. Most citizens and their national politicians were aghast at how the UK got Covid so wrong in 2020, not least because the NHS is hugely respected across Europe. When it came to the vaccine rollout, EU citizens were angry with their own govts. who in turn were angry with how the EU procurement had worked. In so far as they thought about the UK in this context at all, it was to use it as a benchmark along the lines of "how come the UK is so far ahead of us even with that bell-end Johnson in charge?". This was quickly forgotten when it was realised that by good fortune the EU was largely relying on the better vaccine from a more reliable supplier; and as a result Van der Layen's promise in March that the EU would catch up with UK figures by end August, was fulfilled. But even that is not black and white, as it disguises a big variation in vaccine take up across different countries, which will come back to bite us all.
The track and trace was shambicbut the vaccine roll out has been excellent. Look how the EU hated the UK . As I said, some thing have been poor, some ok and some good
The NHS does not have the capacity at the moment -you may have noticed they are quite busy! It is not just a case of throwing money at the NHS, it would require new staff, facilities and systems and procedures .immediately
As for your last point, it was precisely because the NHS oversaw the vaccine rollout that it was so successful. Every EU country including Germany has to turn to private laboratories to provide the capacity, but the difference is the private laboratories are overseen by the health authorities. It's not that difficult, that involves extra work from management, not front line NHS workers. And all I and other critics of this nonsense are asking of the UK govt. is, use common sense and learn from the experience of others, rather than retreat into insularity to deflect from your failures.
It's a matter of scientific record that the Pfizer Biontech vaccine (developed in Germany by a Turkish immigrant couple, if you really must go down that path) has a somewhat better protection rate than the A-Z, and comparing anecdotally with friends and family back home, seems to have slightly less side effects for normally healthy people. There have also as you know been some concerns about side effects in a small number of cases with A-Z, which has caused some countries to limit it to some age groups. But to be clear, if I'd been offered the A-Z as the only one available, I'd have taken it in a heartbeat, and I also plan to buy "Vaxxers", the book by the two awesome women behind it. But the important point was that fairly quickly most people in the EU lost interest in whether or not A-Z had ratted on a contract and favoured the UK for delivery, when it became clear that the Pfizer vaccine could be delivered at scale and might be performing better in the field too. Like I said, it was just good luck, no one could foresee that, and there could be more twists and turns. Latest data shows the Moderna vaccine might be longer lasting, for example. The important thing is only to jab everyone in the world with one of them and to stop the petty nationalist bickering over them.
You cant go round throwing out quotes like "the EU was largely relying on the better vaccine from a more reliable supplier" which you accept is up for debate and not necessarily the case, and call others "petty" for taking a position... it's quite patronising.
Anyway, in respect of vaccine efficiency I was trying to explain that - whether or not you consider it proven - it quickly became the widely accepted belief in Europe that the Pfizer jab was more effective than the A-Z, and thus - and this is the important point - people quickly lost any interest in the earlier spat between the *EC* and A-Z about delivery. The whole idea that anyone in Europe "hated" the UK for rolling out the vaccine programme is a nasty concoction of rabid Tory backbenchers and associated media commentators. It helps no one.
I am pleased to confirm that I am anti-Brexit, anti Tory, and anti Johnson, and this nonsense with Covid re-entry regulations makes me even more so, which takes some doing. However as always be careful with labels. What enrages me here is the hassle and cost Johnson imposes on me if I wish to return to see Charlton, when none of that hassle and cost is involved if, by some miracle I could get hold of some tickets to head up on the train to watch Union Berlin. The last time I looked, it was generally accepted that Angela Merkel considers herself "right wing".3 -
Thank you, Prague. You've spelled it out more concisely.PragueAddick said:PrincessFiona said:
The track and trace was shambicbut the vaccine roll out has been excellent. Look how the EU hated the UK . As I said, some thing have been poor, some ok and some goodOggy Red said:PrincessFiona said:
would be nice re the profit but I wouldn't have thought the NHS would have the capacityOggy Red said:
Rather than private profits going into private pockets, in the UK it could even have been set up and operated by NHS.PragueAddick said:
Just off the top of my head Owen Patterson and Randox.Oggy Red said:
And this surely is the reason for the pointless Day 2 test.PragueAddick said:Meanwhile some dodgy lab ("accredited" for sure) has banked another £290.
Any Government ministers financially involved with any of these companies?
It wouldn't be the first time, would it?
On this topic @PrincessFiona in particular likes to wring hands and say, "it's not perfect, but what can we do?."
The answer regarding the price gouging by private companies is perfectly simple. You say to all laboratories who want to offer these tests "you will charge no more than, say £60, and if anyone reports you for charging more, you're off the list. Like, now" . That is exactly what the Czechs did, and their country is not noted as a bastion of transparent and clean governance...
Any fees and profit would then go directly to supporting the NHS.
Wouldn't that have better served the UK?
When it was decided to offer the vaccine to UK residents, the NHS was able to step up - and has done so magnificently.
Remember the track and trace fiasco? Imagine if it was left to this shambolic Government to organise the vaccination programme through their Tory party donor friends?
Rather than these profit hungry private companies, I'm sure with sufficient funding the NHS could deal more efficiently with 'enter the UK' testing requirements.
Assuming these Day 2 tests are even necessary.
The NHS does not have the capacity at the moment -you may have noticed they are quite busy! It is not just a case of throwing money at the NHS, it would require new staff, facilities and systems and procedures .immediately
As for your last point, it was precisely because the NHS oversaw the vaccine rollout that it was so successful.
Every EU country including Germany has to turn to private laboratories to provide the capacity, but the difference is the private laboratories are overseen by the health authorities.
It's not that difficult, that involves extra work from management, not front line NHS workers. And all I and other critics of this nonsense are asking of the UK govt. is, use common sense and learn from the experience of others, rather than retreat into insularity to deflect from your failures.
That's exactly the point I was trying to make.2 -
My post was not meant to be personal in any way, @SE7toSG3.SE7toSG3 said:
Yep, I am far from a Tory, my wife is front line NHS and I have significant issues with how this government have conducted themselves throughout this.Oggy Red said:
Randox?PragueAddick said:
Just off the top of my head Owen Patterson and Randox.Oggy Red said:
And this surely is the reason for the pointless Day 2 test.PragueAddick said:Meanwhile some dodgy lab ("accredited" for sure) has banked another £290.
Any Government ministers financially involved with any of these companies?
It wouldn't be the first time, would it?
SE7toSG3 said:
You can hear the cash tills ringing.My company has its first overseas tour on the ground today, all in France onroute to Normandy as we speak.
Most of the group used the Randox return test at £43 and we have booked 'in country' antigens with a local pharmacy for €25 tomorrow.
At Randox, Owen Patterson and his profiteering friends must be delighted.
Thank God for Tory government ministers, eh?
But, after 18 months of not being able to trade we need to get touring again, they were the company recommended from our tour operator governing body the TTA and its just not the hill I am going to die on, I am just grateful to get working again.
Just drawing on the connection between a Tory minister's financially vested interest in Randox. It stinks.
Pleased to hear you're able to get working again.
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Thanks. Definitely not meant to be politically loaded. Whilst writing on here is different to at work, where I have to keep my personal opinions and political beliefs out of my reports, I still try to be fair and objective; taking account the unprecedented situation, compounded by the timing of Brexit (whether Brexit is good OR not os another matter) and now Afghanistan meaning workload HAS BEEN unprecedented for many people (frontline NHS, other emergency services, key workers, civil servants and government ministers etc) - this impacts the quality of the output and won;t suit all.
OK fair enough. I appear to have taken @PrincessFiona comments as being more politically loaded than intended, and for that I apologise.
Anyway, in respect of vaccine efficiency I was trying to explain that - whether or not you consider it proven - it quickly became the widely accepted belief in Europe that the Pfizer jab was more effective than the A-Z, and thus - and this is the important point - people quickly lost any interest in the earlier spat between the *EC* and A-Z about delivery. The whole idea that anyone in Europe "hated" the UK for rolling out the vaccine programme is a nasty concoction of rabid Tory backbenchers and associated media commentators. It helps no one.
I am pleased to confirm that I am anti-Brexit, anti Tory, and anti Johnson, and this nonsense with Covid re-entry regulations makes me even more so, which takes some doing. However as always be careful with labels. What enrages me here is the hassle and cost Johnson imposes on me if I wish to return to see Charlton, when none of that hassle and cost is involved if, by some miracle I could get hold of some tickets to head up on the train to watch Union Berlin. The last time I looked, it was generally accepted that Angela Merkel considers herself "right wing".
But I also do try to appreciate some things have gone well, some ok and some badly. And not bring my personal circumstances into it - unless I am specifically having a vent about something that has irked me personally that is!
I am more about Be Fair, Reasonable & Objective, rather than the Be Nice - as that just isn't realistic! Especially if we want to make progress.
No country has got it completely right - maybe the best thing would be if we could all learn what has worked and what hasn't. It also isn't always a case of simply comparing like for like (as always with statistics); some countries have different levels of living standards and therefore health (real poverty compared to relative), different demographics, different population density (a key factor with covid transmission), different acceptance of ways to reduce transmission (adherence of mark wearing and other procedures) etc. The different ways of counting cases makes a huge difference to the stats e.g. whether people died with covid (but actually of something else) as opposed to of covid - not all countries report the true figures e.g Turkey, which was why they were take off the UK travel list and of course China.
(I still think the EC did throw their toys out of the pram re the vaccine progress in the UK though, blocking the export etc!)0 -
Flew back to England over the weekend. Unless things were happening behind the scenes I was never once asked for anything to do with covid - tests, Vax status etc. Also, thank god I can use the e gates!0
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Interesting - where did you fly back from and with which airine? Did you not have to take covid tests and fill out any form where you put you reference?jams said:Flew back to England over the weekend. Unless things were happening behind the scenes I was never once asked for anything to do with covid - tests, Vax status etc. Also, thank god I can use the e gates!1
