16. According to bus companies, TFL, etc - unless you've got some form of discount card.
BINGO.
My son was caught "fare evading" at the weekend and was given a Penalty Fare Notice. He is 17 and still at school.
In England the age at which you become an Adult is 18...........unless you are SothEastern Trains and then it is 16.
The Penalty is only £20 so no great shakes - the fact that the full fare was £9 & he paid £4.50 is more galling though.
The thing that gets me is the Penalty Fare Notice says the reason for the Issue of a PFN is "Adult on a Child Ticket".
As we can see from the responses above no one knows what "Adult" refers to or what age. As the law in England states that "Adult" is from age 18 I was musing what would happened if I refused to pay the fine & it went to court. Surely SouthEastern just printing "Adult" and then relying on THEIR rules as to what "Adult" means could be challenged, as I (and mote importantly my son) believe that "Adult" means when you are 18...............especially as he is desperate to go into a pub & buy a pint. Perhaps we can all just make up what age we think "Adult" means and then lives our lives accordingly ??
(btw - this is what I meant a few weeks ago when I said I was contrary. Laws in this country don't make sense - or at the very least they should be consistent. If they are not then who's to say what age anything should apply)
This is, unbelievably as far as I am concerned, some 55 years ago for me. But I recollect that on buses (and maybe trains) you started to pay the adult fare at 14. If you were still at school, you could get a bus pass that allowed you to pay the child fare but only during term time and if you were travelling to/from school. I suspect this was a hangover from just after WWII when many (most?) kids left school at 14 and were therefore wage earners. That went up to 15, and then 16 in 1972. I reckon, therefore, it's more to do with whether you are working or a student rather than a child or an adult.
Ah, but again, children don't leave school at 16 anymore. They have to stay on until 18, either at 6th form, College or an Apprenticeship - the latter very few do.
That is partly my point. I left school at 16 & got myself a job so didn't have a problem paying "adult" fares. As school children are still in education until 18 why are they (or their parents) having to pay full fare.
I have now been pointed to the "student" railcard thingy......although this costs £30 to get a 1/3 off. Not sure if it's worth it if he is only going to do the odd £5 train journey. I already pay £450 pa for his buss pass.
But therein lies the problem. In Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland, you can just leave school at 16. Everything becomes too complicated because of devolved government. Individuals and companies cannot keep up.
Really simple, as far as travel is concerned, in Northern Ireland,, there is only one train company, also overwhelmingly the largest bus company, Translink (operating NI Railways, Metro and Ulsterbus), the trading arm of the Northern Ireland Travel Holding Company (who, once upon a time, also owned Aldergrove Airport), where you continue to pay child fares until the end of June following your 16th birthday.
16. According to bus companies, TFL, etc - unless you've got some form of discount card.
BINGO.
My son was caught "fare evading" at the weekend and was given a Penalty Fare Notice. He is 17 and still at school.
In England the age at which you become an Adult is 18...........unless you are SothEastern Trains and then it is 16.
The Penalty is only £20 so no great shakes - the fact that the full fare was £9 & he paid £4.50 is more galling though.
The thing that gets me is the Penalty Fare Notice says the reason for the Issue of a PFN is "Adult on a Child Ticket".
As we can see from the responses above no one knows what "Adult" refers to or what age. As the law in England states that "Adult" is from age 18 I was musing what would happened if I refused to pay the fine & it went to court. Surely SouthEastern just printing "Adult" and then relying on THEIR rules as to what "Adult" means could be challenged, as I (and mote importantly my son) believe that "Adult" means when you are 18...............especially as he is desperate to go into a pub & buy a pint. Perhaps we can all just make up what age we think "Adult" means and then lives our lives accordingly ??
(btw - this is what I meant a few weeks ago when I said I was contrary. Laws in this country don't make sense - or at the very least they should be consistent. If they are not then who's to say what age anything should apply)
This is, unbelievably as far as I am concerned, some 55 years ago for me. But I recollect that on buses (and maybe trains) you started to pay the adult fare at 14. If you were still at school, you could get a bus pass that allowed you to pay the child fare but only during term time and if you were travelling to/from school. I suspect this was a hangover from just after WWII when many (most?) kids left school at 14 and were therefore wage earners. That went up to 15, and then 16 in 1972. I reckon, therefore, it's more to do with whether you are working or a student rather than a child or an adult.
Ah, but again, children don't leave school at 16 anymore. They have to stay on until 18, either at 6th form, College or an Apprenticeship - the latter very few do.
That is partly my point. I left school at 16 & got myself a job so didn't have a problem paying "adult" fares. As school children are still in education until 18 why are they (or their parents) having to pay full fare.
I have now been pointed to the "student" railcard thingy......although this costs £30 to get a 1/3 off. Not sure if it's worth it if he is only going to do the odd £5 train journey. I already pay £450 pa for his buss pass.
So, it transpires that the ticket machine does say that a child is from age 5 to 15 & so you could say that Golfie Jnr knew he was trying to "defraud" them.
However, what really is getting my goat /on my wick /up my nose is the whole "when are you an adult or a child" dilemma - especially after the letter I received this morning & has prompted me resurrecting this thread.
Letter received from SouthEastern confirming the Penalty Fare and when it needs to be paid by. Letter addressed to " parent or guardian of........."
wtf ??? NO. If you are going to charge an ADULT fare then you deal with that person as an ADULT. If you are writing to me as his parent then logic dictates you feel that he is a minor/doesn't have authority himself.
Does seem a bit bizarre that they write to the parent. TFL don't (or can't) prosecute under 18's.
Then again, if your 'child' goes to university at aged 18/19/20 etc then the parents income decides what they can or cannot receive by way of funding/loans etc. You'd have thought at that age they were Adults, but clearly not!
Comments
If someone thinks they are an adult ... irrespective of any biological aspects ... that's should be good enough for all of us.
So, it transpires that the ticket machine does say that a child is from age 5 to 15 & so you could say that Golfie Jnr knew he was trying to "defraud" them.
However, what really is getting my goat /on my wick /up my nose is the whole "when are you an adult or a child" dilemma - especially after the letter I received this morning & has prompted me resurrecting this thread.
Letter received from SouthEastern confirming the Penalty Fare and when it needs to be paid by. Letter addressed to " parent or guardian of........."
wtf ??? NO. If you are going to charge an ADULT fare then you deal with that person as an ADULT. If you are writing to me as his parent then logic dictates you feel that he is a minor/doesn't have authority himself.
Cant have it both ways SouthEastern.
A complaint will be sent today.
Then again, if your 'child' goes to university at aged 18/19/20 etc then the parents income decides what they can or cannot receive by way of funding/loans etc. You'd have thought at that age they were Adults, but clearly not!