We had British gas smart meters installed for both gas and electric when we moved in 2 years ago and everything had been great working perfectly. Then we realised that for the last 3 months they have been estimating our gas readings "due to a change in how we calculate bills" and has estimated our usage as double what it actually was. Luckily we noticed this and were able to submit a reading before the cap was changed so we should get "refunded" to our account at the higher rate that we paid for it.
Thanks for your replies. It sounds like, basically, it’s a legal scam that they can get away with. Once Smart Meters are in place there is no reason whatsoever for them to still estimate the bills and front load the accounts in their favour. That’s one of the benefits of Smart Meters. To be able to provide real time accurate usage data feeds to their computer systems.
@Siv_in_Norfolk. Thanks for the info about Ecotricity. I’ll talk to you more about that.
I haven't finished with them yet mate. They have got me down for using 3 cubic metres per week. My calculations using that formula don't appear to be matching theirs (with regards to starting meter figures). Waiting on their full breakdown maths, along with all I have paid over that period. I moved in on 24/03/2021. They have agreed a figure of 3 cubic metres per week. The reading on 24/03/2024 was 696 cubic metres. Using (by their formula) 156 metres per year (3 x 52 weeks) x 3 years = 468 metres (3 x 156). 696 - 468 = starting reading of 228.
They have got it down as 226.
Hmm, might have to eat humble pie on this one and accept they are (finally) correct.
Just when I was looking forward to a row.
I have, however completed an application saying that not all water issued was returned to their sewer. You are charged 37% of your bill for returned water. They assume 100% of issued water is returned to sewer. Had a fair size extension on my house, and consider a lot of water usage went into raw materials (concrete, mortar, render, plaster). We shall see.
Don't forget to claim for your soak away drain. That gives a discount of £14.37 per six month billing.
I switched to Octopus Tracker Tariff today. Logged onto my account and made the switch and less than two hours later received notification that the change was complete. Fingers crossed it’s a bit cheaper for me. I’m a high user.
I switched to Octopus Tracker Tariff today. Logged onto my account and made the switch and less than two hours later received notification that the change was complete. Fingers crossed it’s a bit cheaper for me. I’m a high user.
I haven't finished with them yet mate. They have got me down for using 3 cubic metres per week. My calculations using that formula don't appear to be matching theirs (with regards to starting meter figures). Waiting on their full breakdown maths, along with all I have paid over that period. I moved in on 24/03/2021. They have agreed a figure of 3 cubic metres per week. The reading on 24/03/2024 was 696 cubic metres. Using (by their formula) 156 metres per year (3 x 52 weeks) x 3 years = 468 metres (3 x 156). 696 - 468 = starting reading of 228.
They have got it down as 226.
Hmm, might have to eat humble pie on this one and accept they are (finally) correct.
Just when I was looking forward to a row.
I have, however completed an application saying that not all water issued was returned to their sewer. You are charged 37% of your bill for returned water. They assume 100% of issued water is returned to sewer. Had a fair size extension on my house, and consider a lot of water usage went into raw materials (concrete, mortar, render, plaster). We shall see.
Don't forget to claim for your soak away drain. That gives a discount of £14.37 per six month billing.
Bit of an update. Received a bill Monday for just under £1k. Two today. One for up to Nov 23 for £225, another one for up to mid March 24 for £400. Questioned the figures as basically since I moved in up until mid march 24, I owed around £1300. I have already paid them £1297.
So to sum up. Out of the blue get a bill for £1150,00 and being told this is genuine from many of the TW minions. To now agreeing with them that I owe £2.50.
How can a company be able to operate in this manner? Maybe they have a job lot of Fujitsu PCs?
A typical household's yearly energy bill will fall by £122 in July under the regulator Ofgem's new price cap.
The latest quarterly cap for England, Wales and Scotland means a household using a typical amount of gas and electricity will pay £1,568 a year.
That is down on the current level of £1,690 a year and is the lowest for two years.
Specifically, in England, Wales and Scotland:
Gas prices will be capped at 5.48p per kilowatt hour (kWh), and electricity at 22.36p per kWh
A typical household uses 2,700 kWh of electricity a year, and 11,500 kWh of gas
Households on pre-payment meters will pay slightly less than those on direct debit, with a typical bill of £1,522
Those who pay their bills every three months by cash or cheque will pay more, with a typical bill of £1,668
Standing charges - a fixed daily charge covering the costs of connecting to a supply - are unchanged at 60p a day for electricity and 31p a day for gas, although they vary by region
It’s gas heating 4 bed 2 bath, we have an ev charger but it’s rarely used.
Not sure if your cost is high or low.
The average property in the UK is 1,000 square feet
The average household size is 2.36 people
The average number of bedrooms is 2.9
By comparison, I'm all electric - two people, 4-bed, 2,000 square feet, EV charger (not used as much now I've retired), and a hot tub on 24/7/365. The house is also not particularly energy efficient (250 year old converted barn with pretty much zero loft insulation (zero loft!!).
My monthly Direct Debit has just reduced based on a meter reading two days ago from £449 to £373 - so currently annual cost of around £4,500 - but it has been pretty mild in the last three months.
How is my bill around 4K a year if the average is £1600 and we don’t usually have the heating on between May - Sept?
Currently with OVO but should I be looking elsewhere?
Maybe shut the windows in winter in future 😉😆
Serious answer is that it is the danger of the word ‘average’. It means very little when we include a whole range of properties in the calculation. It’s your consumption level versus the average consumption level.
I doubt most tariffs are poles apart albeit there are now (relatively recently) some fixed rate tariffs to take advantage of that are savings against the cap.
A typical household's yearly energy bill will fall by £122 in July under the regulator Ofgem's new price cap.
The latest quarterly cap for England, Wales and Scotland means a household using a typical amount of gas and electricity will pay £1,568 a year.
That is down on the current level of £1,690 a year and is the lowest for two years.
Specifically, in England, Wales and Scotland:
Gas prices will be capped at 5.48p per kilowatt hour (kWh), and electricity at 22.36p per kWh
A typical household uses 2,700 kWh of electricity a year, and 11,500 kWh of gas
Households on pre-payment meters will pay slightly less than those on direct debit, with a typical bill of £1,522
Those who pay their bills every three months by cash or cheque will pay more, with a typical bill of £1,668
Standing charges - a fixed daily charge covering the costs of connecting to a supply - are unchanged at 60p a day for electricity and 31p a day for gas, although they vary by region
A typical household's yearly energy bill will fall by £122 in July under the regulator Ofgem's new price cap.
The latest quarterly cap for England, Wales and Scotland means a household using a typical amount of gas and electricity will pay £1,568 a year.
That is down on the current level of £1,690 a year and is the lowest for two years.
Specifically, in England, Wales and Scotland:
Gas prices will be capped at 5.48p per kilowatt hour (kWh), and electricity at 22.36p per kWh
A typical household uses 2,700 kWh of electricity a year, and 11,500 kWh of gas
Households on pre-payment meters will pay slightly less than those on direct debit, with a typical bill of £1,522
Those who pay their bills every three months by cash or cheque will pay more, with a typical bill of £1,668
Standing charges - a fixed daily charge covering the costs of connecting to a supply - are unchanged at 60p a day for electricity and 31p a day for gas, although they vary by region
I see that the energy price cap is forecast to increase by 9% in October. Time to fix ? I’m currently on Octopus tracker.
Unless there is a 20 to 30% ish rise in prices you'll still be better off on the tracker.
I'm on the Octopus Tracker December 2023 V1 and am staying on that. But SHG is on a more expensive more recent version.
Would seem I’m on the same. Worth sticking ?
Basically, I think it's impossible to know for certain at this point.
A bit like estimating whether a 1, 2, 3, 5 year fix mortgage may be best etc. I would say if you need the certainty of a fix rate, because you may have financial struggles by not fixing, then you should perhaps fix.
I'm estimating that the Octopus variable tracker has served me well and I'm happy to stick with it as I doubt there's much in it and am happy to take the risk that I think there's a 55/60% chance that the tracker will be a bit cheaper.
I see that the energy price cap is forecast to increase by 9% in October. Time to fix ? I’m currently on Octopus tracker.
Unless there is a 20 to 30% ish rise in prices you'll still be better off on the tracker.
I'm on the Octopus Tracker December 2023 V1 and am staying on that. But SHG is on a more expensive more recent version.
Would seem I’m on the same. Worth sticking ?
Basically, I think it's impossible to know for certain at this point.
A bit like estimating whether a 1, 2, 3, 5 year fix mortgage may be best etc. I would say if you need the certainty of a fix rate, because you may have financial struggles by not fixing, then you should perhaps fix.
I'm estimating that the Octopus variable has served me well and I'm happy to stick with it as I doubt there's much in it and am happy to take the risk that I think there's a 55/60% chance that the tracker will be a bit cheaper.
Just used the Octoprice compare app for first time. I’m sure you know it gives real data based on your current usage. Very impressive and it would appear I’m definitely saving some money over variable but Agile is slightly better. Think I’ll stick. Thanks for input. Much appreciated
I see that the energy price cap is forecast to increase by 9% in October. Time to fix ? I’m currently on Octopus tracker.
Unless there is a 20 to 30% ish rise in prices you'll still be better off on the tracker.
I'm on the Octopus Tracker December 2023 V1 and am staying on that. But SHG is on a more expensive more recent version.
Would seem I’m on the same. Worth sticking ?
Basically, I think it's impossible to know for certain at this point.
A bit like estimating whether a 1, 2, 3, 5 year fix mortgage may be best etc. I would say if you need the certainty of a fix rate, because you may have financial struggles by not fixing, then you should perhaps fix.
I'm estimating that the Octopus variable has served me well and I'm happy to stick with it as I doubt there's much in it and am happy to take the risk that I think there's a 55/60% chance that the tracker will be a bit cheaper.
Just used the Octoprice compare app for first time. I’m sure you know it gives real data based on your current usage. Very impressive and it would appear I’m definitely saving some money over variable but Agile is slightly better. Think I’ll stick. Thanks for input. Much appreciated
Very useful app. Agile is great but punishes you at peak times in the evening.
Gas 5.28p per KW an 30.50p per day Standing Electric 22.40 per KW an 38.84p per day Standing
Two Year Fixed
Gas 6.60p per KW an 26.01p per day Standing Electric 24.59p an 41.55p per day Standing
With the Cap increasing shortly (forecast 9%) and being reviewed every 3 months, it’s a gamble on the whether you think prices are short to mid term heading up or down.
This next increase I think will take my variable close to these Two year fixed figures. I’m taking the gamble it isn’t coming down anytime soon. So locking in now.
Although worth noting I’m on £75 exit fee on both gas and electric should I wish to get out of the 2 year fixed.
I will repeat what I have said before. I don’t understand where the calculation for a 9/10% rise in energy bills is derived from. As the price cap is a lagging indicator (previous 3 months) it should be clear that wholesale prices have increased 9/10% up to end of September. They have not. Following chart shows octopus tracker rate over the last 3 months
As you can see barely deviated from 20/21p and certainly not consistently higher than 22p needed to equal a 10% rise.
I get the feeling it’s the added extras that energy companies can throw into the ‘price cap’ to help them recover from bad debtors / other energy companies going bust that is pushing the prices up.
I will be staying on the Octopus wholesale tracker for this winter.
I will repeat what I have said before. I don’t understand where the calculation for a 9/10% rise in energy bills is derived from. As the price cap is a lagging indicator (previous 3 months) it should be clear that wholesale prices have increased 9/10% up to end of September. They have not. Following chart shows octopus tracker rate over the last 3 months
As you can see barely deviated from 20/21p and certainly not consistently higher than 22p needed to equal a 10% rise.
I get the feeling it’s the added extras that energy companies can throw into the ‘price cap’ to help them recover from bad debtors / other energy companies going bust that is pushing the prices up.
I will be staying on the Octopus wholesale tracker for this winter.
A direct and inevitable consequence of trying to fix prices. We didn't pay as much as we should have when prices spiked but all that has to be paid back (plus the associated financing costs). Worse, because the government wanted prices constrained, that forced companies to buy forward at the top of the market. In addition, we're paying for everyone who has defaulted.
We're now in an insane place where global wholesale prices have come down to roughly where they were before the crisis (e.g. natural gas) but we're still paying almost twice as much as before the spike.
On top of that, the fixed daily rates are linked to the cost of running the network - hence why they vary by location, energy type, etc. - and, due to inflation in labour, materials and energy, these keep going up.
Are they also profiteering, no doubt. They'll be gaming the regulator on all sorts of costs, caveats and risks that require higher profits to manage. But there's no longer a market - albeit it was never a very efficient market - to mitigate that profiteering.
I will repeat what I have said before. I don’t understand where the calculation for a 9/10% rise in energy bills is derived from. As the price cap is a lagging indicator (previous 3 months) it should be clear that wholesale prices have increased 9/10% up to end of September. They have not. Following chart shows octopus tracker rate over the last 3 months
As you can see barely deviated from 20/21p and certainly not consistently higher than 22p needed to equal a 10% rise.
I get the feeling it’s the added extras that energy companies can throw into the ‘price cap’ to help them recover from bad debtors / other energy companies going bust that is pushing the prices up.
I will be staying on the Octopus wholesale tracker for this winter.
Comments
My calculations using that formula don't appear to be matching theirs (with regards to starting meter figures).
Waiting on their full breakdown maths, along with all I have paid over that period.
I moved in on 24/03/2021.
They have agreed a figure of 3 cubic metres per week.
The reading on 24/03/2024 was 696 cubic metres.
Using (by their formula) 156 metres per year (3 x 52 weeks) x 3 years = 468 metres (3 x 156).
696 - 468 = starting reading of 228.
They have got it down as 226.
Hmm, might have to eat humble pie on this one and accept they are (finally) correct.
Just when I was looking forward to a row.
I have, however completed an application saying that not all water issued was returned to their sewer. You are charged 37% of your bill for returned water.
They assume 100% of issued water is returned to sewer.
Had a fair size extension on my house, and consider a lot of water usage went into raw materials (concrete, mortar, render, plaster).
We shall see.
Don't forget to claim for your soak away drain. That gives a discount of £14.37 per six month billing.
Two today. One for up to Nov 23 for £225, another one for up to mid March 24 for £400.
Questioned the figures as basically since I moved in up until mid march 24, I owed around £1300.
I have already paid them £1297.
So to sum up.
Out of the blue get a bill for £1150,00 and being told this is genuine from many of the TW minions.
To now agreeing with them that I owe £2.50.
How can a company be able to operate in this manner?
Maybe they have a job lot of Fujitsu PCs?
A typical household's yearly energy bill will fall by £122 in July under the regulator Ofgem's new price cap.
The latest quarterly cap for England, Wales and Scotland means a household using a typical amount of gas and electricity will pay £1,568 a year.
That is down on the current level of £1,690 a year and is the lowest for two years.
Specifically, in England, Wales and Scotland:
Gas prices will be capped at 5.48p per kilowatt hour (kWh), and electricity at 22.36p per kWh
A typical household uses 2,700 kWh of electricity a year, and 11,500 kWh of gas
Households on pre-payment meters will pay slightly less than those on direct debit, with a typical bill of £1,522
Those who pay their bills every three months by cash or cheque will pay more, with a typical bill of £1,668
Standing charges - a fixed daily charge covering the costs of connecting to a supply - are unchanged at 60p a day for electricity and 31p a day for gas, although they vary by region
What heating system do you have? How big is your property? Do you have high usage equipment (hot tub, EV charger etc...).
Serious answer is that it is the danger of the word ‘average’. It means very little when we include a whole range of properties in the calculation. It’s your consumption level versus the average consumption level.
Take a look here.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/energy/
Latest forecasts suggest bills will increase again coming into winter as wholesale gas costs are on the rise.
Respected research firm Cornwall Insight said it expects the fall announced today "may be temporary".
It predicts a typical bill will increase to £1,762 from October and remain around this level until the end of March.
https://news.sky.com/story/energy-price-cap-average-annual-bill-to-fall-from-july-ofgem-announces-13142275
A bit like estimating whether a 1, 2, 3, 5 year fix mortgage may be best etc.
I would say if you need the certainty of a fix rate, because you may have financial struggles by not fixing, then you should perhaps fix.
I'm estimating that the Octopus variable tracker has served me well and I'm happy to stick with it as I doubt there's much in it and am happy to take the risk that I think there's a 55/60% chance that the tracker will be a bit cheaper.
Gas 5.28p per KW an 30.50p per day Standing
Electric 22.40 per KW an 38.84p per day Standing
Two Year Fixed
Gas 6.60p per KW an 26.01p per day Standing
Electric 24.59p an 41.55p per day Standing
With the Cap increasing shortly (forecast 9%) and being reviewed every 3 months, it’s a gamble on the whether you think prices are short to mid term heading up or down.
A typical household's annual energy bill will rise by £149 in October under regulator Ofgem's new price cap.
A household using a typical amount of gas and electricity will pay £1,717 a year, a 10% rise compared with now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9qgy11w5dyo
We're now in an insane place where global wholesale prices have come down to roughly where they were before the crisis (e.g. natural gas) but we're still paying almost twice as much as before the spike.
On top of that, the fixed daily rates are linked to the cost of running the network - hence why they vary by location, energy type, etc. - and, due to inflation in labour, materials and energy, these keep going up.
Are they also profiteering, no doubt. They'll be gaming the regulator on all sorts of costs, caveats and risks that require higher profits to manage. But there's no longer a market - albeit it was never a very efficient market - to mitigate that profiteering.