I've been getting letters for years about having a water meter fitted and have put every single one of them in the bin.
As a family of 4 with a garden and two teenage kids, why on earth would I want to have a water meter fitted?
Does that mean you're on RV? Rateable Value that takes into account number of bedrooms in your house.
Although we had a meter fitted we were still paying RV of £79 a month, and it wasn't until we were chatting to a neighbour that was paying £29 we started to investigate why our bill was so much higher. Had a Thames Water guy round to check for leaks (none) and after a few phone calls someone eventually twigged it was the RV rate and not meter rate. After a further nine months down the line and umpteen phone calls we ended up with an £1100 refund. We now pay about £32/month.
As some of you may know I’ve lived in the States for years so I haven’t been familiar with how things are done in England regarding energy bills. In the States, an accurate bill is created every month using actual usage data which is automatically fed from the Smart Meters into the respective billing systems. Even before Smart Meters the monthly bill was still accurate as the meters would be read manually every month by meter readers and those figures would be manually fed into the billing systems from where the bills would be created.
However, 18 months ago I bought a flat in Bromley and was surprised to see that the monthly amount was ‘estimated’ even though my property does have Smart Meters which can produce accurate monthly meter data usage readings automatically. And that estimate is deliberately higher than it should be so the energy company benefits from building up a credit on my account. Is this standard practice and if so, why? I just see this as a way for them to keep some of my money. If this is common practice with all of their customers I can see the energy companies stockpiling millions of ££ every month.
Obviously this is legal but why do they do this and why haven’t people complained? That is an innocent question. I’m just trying to understand why they do that. I’d rather have that money in my bank account. Initially I was with Bulb but that was transferred to Octopus just over a year ago and the practice has continued.
As some of you may know I’ve lived in the States for years so I haven’t been familiar with how things are done in England regarding energy bills. In the States, an accurate bill is created every month using actual usage data which is automatically fed from the Smart Meters into the respective billing systems. Even before Smart Meters the monthly bill was still accurate as the meters would be read manually every month by meter readers and those figures would be manually fed into the billing systems from where the bills would be created.
However, 18 months ago I bought a flat in Bromley and was surprised to see that the monthly amount was ‘estimated’ even though my property does have Smart Meters which can produce accurate monthly meter data usage readings automatically. And that estimate is deliberately higher than it should be so the energy company benefits from building up a credit on my account. Is this standard practice and if so, why? I just see this as a way for them to keep some of my money. If this is common practice with all of their customers I can see the energy companies stockpiling millions of ££ every month.
Obviously this is legal but why do they do this and why haven’t people complained? That is an innocent question. I’m just trying to understand why they do that. I’d rather have that money in my bank account. Initially I was with Bulb but that was transferred to Octopus just over a year ago and the practice has continued.
Thanks.
Welcome back!
It's been going on for years. They know how much energy you are likely to use and then set your payments higher so you build up a credit. They will usually give you it back, eventually, when you ask them, but as I've said to numerous energy suppliers over the years, "its not a savings plan, it's my money you're holding".
They all do, although some seem to be worse than others, because they can do it and get away with it. It's a fucking cartel. Pure and simple.
I'm with Ecotricity and they don't pull that crap.
Bills are for how much gas and electric we actually use each month based on smart meter data.
They also don't play the game of fixed rate vs. standard variable rate etc. Just one tariff. Its a little more than the cheapest fixes you can find, but I don't mind it as they plough plenty of their profits into sustainable/renewable energy infrastructure projects.
They are owned by the guy who owns Forest Green Rovers.
I think they do £50 each for me and somebody else if doing a referral. Might have stopped. Dunno. If you or anybody else wants to switch lemme know and I'll have a look.
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Edit - looked it up. Yeah, still running. Here is my code if anybody wants to switch:
As some of you may know I’ve lived in the States for years so I haven’t been familiar with how things are done in England regarding energy bills. In the States, an accurate bill is created every month using actual usage data which is automatically fed from the Smart Meters into the respective billing systems. Even before Smart Meters the monthly bill was still accurate as the meters would be read manually every month by meter readers and those figures would be manually fed into the billing systems from where the bills would be created.
However, 18 months ago I bought a flat in Bromley and was surprised to see that the monthly amount was ‘estimated’ even though my property does have Smart Meters which can produce accurate monthly meter data usage readings automatically. And that estimate is deliberately higher than it should be so the energy company benefits from building up a credit on my account. Is this standard practice and if so, why? I just see this as a way for them to keep some of my money. If this is common practice with all of their customers I can see the energy companies stockpiling millions of ££ every month.
Obviously this is legal but why do they do this and why haven’t people complained? That is an innocent question. I’m just trying to understand why they do that. I’d rather have that money in my bank account. Initially I was with Bulb but that was transferred to Octopus just over a year ago and the practice has continued.
Thanks.
This is not my experience.
I’m with British Gas. The smart meter is used and I can also submit a reading if I wanted to.
The monthly direct debit is a simple calculation based on forecast annual usage divided by 12. This makes budgeting easier for me and also the supplier.
Every quarter the formal bill arrives and the DD reassessed.
I also understand that suppliers must now return excess credit funds if a surplus builds up.
Sounds in this case you need to see why the smart meter data isn’t being used. It may more innocently be they don’t yet have an annual estimate to base it on but which you could provide?
As some of you may know I’ve lived in the States for years so I haven’t been familiar with how things are done in England regarding energy bills. In the States, an accurate bill is created every month using actual usage data which is automatically fed from the Smart Meters into the respective billing systems. Even before Smart Meters the monthly bill was still accurate as the meters would be read manually every month by meter readers and those figures would be manually fed into the billing systems from where the bills would be created.
However, 18 months ago I bought a flat in Bromley and was surprised to see that the monthly amount was ‘estimated’ even though my property does have Smart Meters which can produce accurate monthly meter data usage readings automatically. And that estimate is deliberately higher than it should be so the energy company benefits from building up a credit on my account. Is this standard practice and if so, why? I just see this as a way for them to keep some of my money. If this is common practice with all of their customers I can see the energy companies stockpiling millions of ££ every month.
Obviously this is legal but why do they do this and why haven’t people complained? That is an innocent question. I’m just trying to understand why they do that. I’d rather have that money in my bank account. Initially I was with Bulb but that was transferred to Octopus just over a year ago and the practice has continued.
Thanks.
What I find most confusing about that is that you have a smart meter but the usage is estimated? Unless the estimated figure is the yearly electricity usage which they are then dividing by 12 to give your monthly DD figure?
As some of you may know I’ve lived in the States for years so I haven’t been familiar with how things are done in England regarding energy bills. In the States, an accurate bill is created every month using actual usage data which is automatically fed from the Smart Meters into the respective billing systems. Even before Smart Meters the monthly bill was still accurate as the meters would be read manually every month by meter readers and those figures would be manually fed into the billing systems from where the bills would be created.
However, 18 months ago I bought a flat in Bromley and was surprised to see that the monthly amount was ‘estimated’ even though my property does have Smart Meters which can produce accurate monthly meter data usage readings automatically. And that estimate is deliberately higher than it should be so the energy company benefits from building up a credit on my account. Is this standard practice and if so, why? I just see this as a way for them to keep some of my money. If this is common practice with all of their customers I can see the energy companies stockpiling millions of ££ every month.
Obviously this is legal but why do they do this and why haven’t people complained? That is an innocent question. I’m just trying to understand why they do that. I’d rather have that money in my bank account. Initially I was with Bulb but that was transferred to Octopus just over a year ago and the practice has continued.
Thanks.
If you have a smart meter it should be taking the readings. However, I've a feeling that some companies need to install their own meters (I'll leave it with you to check).
We had British gas smart meters installed for both gas and electric when we moved in 2 years ago and everything had been great working perfectly. Then we realised that for the last 3 months they have been estimating our gas readings "due to a change in how we calculate bills" and has estimated our usage as double what it actually was. Luckily we noticed this and were able to submit a reading before the cap was changed so we should get "refunded" to our account at the higher rate that we paid for it.
Thanks for your replies. It sounds like, basically, it’s a legal scam that they can get away with. Once Smart Meters are in place there is no reason whatsoever for them to still estimate the bills and front load the accounts in their favour. That’s one of the benefits of Smart Meters. To be able to provide real time accurate usage data feeds to their computer systems.
@Siv_in_Norfolk. Thanks for the info about Ecotricity. I’ll talk to you more about that.
I haven't finished with them yet mate. They have got me down for using 3 cubic metres per week. My calculations using that formula don't appear to be matching theirs (with regards to starting meter figures). Waiting on their full breakdown maths, along with all I have paid over that period. I moved in on 24/03/2021. They have agreed a figure of 3 cubic metres per week. The reading on 24/03/2024 was 696 cubic metres. Using (by their formula) 156 metres per year (3 x 52 weeks) x 3 years = 468 metres (3 x 156). 696 - 468 = starting reading of 228.
They have got it down as 226.
Hmm, might have to eat humble pie on this one and accept they are (finally) correct.
Just when I was looking forward to a row.
I have, however completed an application saying that not all water issued was returned to their sewer. You are charged 37% of your bill for returned water. They assume 100% of issued water is returned to sewer. Had a fair size extension on my house, and consider a lot of water usage went into raw materials (concrete, mortar, render, plaster). We shall see.
Don't forget to claim for your soak away drain. That gives a discount of £14.37 per six month billing.
I switched to Octopus Tracker Tariff today. Logged onto my account and made the switch and less than two hours later received notification that the change was complete. Fingers crossed it’s a bit cheaper for me. I’m a high user.
I switched to Octopus Tracker Tariff today. Logged onto my account and made the switch and less than two hours later received notification that the change was complete. Fingers crossed it’s a bit cheaper for me. I’m a high user.
I haven't finished with them yet mate. They have got me down for using 3 cubic metres per week. My calculations using that formula don't appear to be matching theirs (with regards to starting meter figures). Waiting on their full breakdown maths, along with all I have paid over that period. I moved in on 24/03/2021. They have agreed a figure of 3 cubic metres per week. The reading on 24/03/2024 was 696 cubic metres. Using (by their formula) 156 metres per year (3 x 52 weeks) x 3 years = 468 metres (3 x 156). 696 - 468 = starting reading of 228.
They have got it down as 226.
Hmm, might have to eat humble pie on this one and accept they are (finally) correct.
Just when I was looking forward to a row.
I have, however completed an application saying that not all water issued was returned to their sewer. You are charged 37% of your bill for returned water. They assume 100% of issued water is returned to sewer. Had a fair size extension on my house, and consider a lot of water usage went into raw materials (concrete, mortar, render, plaster). We shall see.
Don't forget to claim for your soak away drain. That gives a discount of £14.37 per six month billing.
Bit of an update. Received a bill Monday for just under £1k. Two today. One for up to Nov 23 for £225, another one for up to mid March 24 for £400. Questioned the figures as basically since I moved in up until mid march 24, I owed around £1300. I have already paid them £1297.
So to sum up. Out of the blue get a bill for £1150,00 and being told this is genuine from many of the TW minions. To now agreeing with them that I owe £2.50.
How can a company be able to operate in this manner? Maybe they have a job lot of Fujitsu PCs?
A typical household's yearly energy bill will fall by £122 in July under the regulator Ofgem's new price cap.
The latest quarterly cap for England, Wales and Scotland means a household using a typical amount of gas and electricity will pay £1,568 a year.
That is down on the current level of £1,690 a year and is the lowest for two years.
Specifically, in England, Wales and Scotland:
Gas prices will be capped at 5.48p per kilowatt hour (kWh), and electricity at 22.36p per kWh
A typical household uses 2,700 kWh of electricity a year, and 11,500 kWh of gas
Households on pre-payment meters will pay slightly less than those on direct debit, with a typical bill of £1,522
Those who pay their bills every three months by cash or cheque will pay more, with a typical bill of £1,668
Standing charges - a fixed daily charge covering the costs of connecting to a supply - are unchanged at 60p a day for electricity and 31p a day for gas, although they vary by region
It’s gas heating 4 bed 2 bath, we have an ev charger but it’s rarely used.
Not sure if your cost is high or low.
The average property in the UK is 1,000 square feet
The average household size is 2.36 people
The average number of bedrooms is 2.9
By comparison, I'm all electric - two people, 4-bed, 2,000 square feet, EV charger (not used as much now I've retired), and a hot tub on 24/7/365. The house is also not particularly energy efficient (250 year old converted barn with pretty much zero loft insulation (zero loft!!).
My monthly Direct Debit has just reduced based on a meter reading two days ago from £449 to £373 - so currently annual cost of around £4,500 - but it has been pretty mild in the last three months.
How is my bill around 4K a year if the average is £1600 and we don’t usually have the heating on between May - Sept?
Currently with OVO but should I be looking elsewhere?
Maybe shut the windows in winter in future 😉😆
Serious answer is that it is the danger of the word ‘average’. It means very little when we include a whole range of properties in the calculation. It’s your consumption level versus the average consumption level.
I doubt most tariffs are poles apart albeit there are now (relatively recently) some fixed rate tariffs to take advantage of that are savings against the cap.
A typical household's yearly energy bill will fall by £122 in July under the regulator Ofgem's new price cap.
The latest quarterly cap for England, Wales and Scotland means a household using a typical amount of gas and electricity will pay £1,568 a year.
That is down on the current level of £1,690 a year and is the lowest for two years.
Specifically, in England, Wales and Scotland:
Gas prices will be capped at 5.48p per kilowatt hour (kWh), and electricity at 22.36p per kWh
A typical household uses 2,700 kWh of electricity a year, and 11,500 kWh of gas
Households on pre-payment meters will pay slightly less than those on direct debit, with a typical bill of £1,522
Those who pay their bills every three months by cash or cheque will pay more, with a typical bill of £1,668
Standing charges - a fixed daily charge covering the costs of connecting to a supply - are unchanged at 60p a day for electricity and 31p a day for gas, although they vary by region
A typical household's yearly energy bill will fall by £122 in July under the regulator Ofgem's new price cap.
The latest quarterly cap for England, Wales and Scotland means a household using a typical amount of gas and electricity will pay £1,568 a year.
That is down on the current level of £1,690 a year and is the lowest for two years.
Specifically, in England, Wales and Scotland:
Gas prices will be capped at 5.48p per kilowatt hour (kWh), and electricity at 22.36p per kWh
A typical household uses 2,700 kWh of electricity a year, and 11,500 kWh of gas
Households on pre-payment meters will pay slightly less than those on direct debit, with a typical bill of £1,522
Those who pay their bills every three months by cash or cheque will pay more, with a typical bill of £1,668
Standing charges - a fixed daily charge covering the costs of connecting to a supply - are unchanged at 60p a day for electricity and 31p a day for gas, although they vary by region
Comments
Although we had a meter fitted we were still paying RV of £79 a month, and it wasn't until we were chatting to a neighbour that was paying £29 we started to investigate why our bill was so much higher. Had a Thames Water guy round to check for leaks (none) and after a few phone calls someone eventually twigged it was the RV rate and not meter rate. After a further nine months down the line and umpteen phone calls we ended up with an £1100 refund. We now pay about £32/month.
It's been going on for years. They know how much energy you are likely to use and then set your payments higher so you build up a credit. They will usually give you it back, eventually, when you ask them, but as I've said to numerous energy suppliers over the years, "its not a savings plan, it's my money you're holding".
They all do, although some seem to be worse than others, because they can do it and get away with it. It's a fucking cartel. Pure and simple.
I'm with Ecotricity and they don't pull that crap.
Bills are for how much gas and electric we actually use each month based on smart meter data.
They also don't play the game of fixed rate vs. standard variable rate etc. Just one tariff. Its a little more than the cheapest fixes you can find, but I don't mind it as they plough plenty of their profits into sustainable/renewable energy infrastructure projects.
They are owned by the guy who owns Forest Green Rovers.
I think they do £50 each for me and somebody else if doing a referral. Might have stopped. Dunno. If you or anybody else wants to switch lemme know and I'll have a look.
------------
Edit - looked it up. Yeah, still running.
Here is my code if anybody wants to switch:
RAF-M1N6V
Link with more details:
https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/refer-a-friend
estimate to base it on but which you could provide?
However, I've a feeling that some companies need to install their own meters (I'll leave it with you to check).
My calculations using that formula don't appear to be matching theirs (with regards to starting meter figures).
Waiting on their full breakdown maths, along with all I have paid over that period.
I moved in on 24/03/2021.
They have agreed a figure of 3 cubic metres per week.
The reading on 24/03/2024 was 696 cubic metres.
Using (by their formula) 156 metres per year (3 x 52 weeks) x 3 years = 468 metres (3 x 156).
696 - 468 = starting reading of 228.
They have got it down as 226.
Hmm, might have to eat humble pie on this one and accept they are (finally) correct.
Just when I was looking forward to a row.
I have, however completed an application saying that not all water issued was returned to their sewer. You are charged 37% of your bill for returned water.
They assume 100% of issued water is returned to sewer.
Had a fair size extension on my house, and consider a lot of water usage went into raw materials (concrete, mortar, render, plaster).
We shall see.
Don't forget to claim for your soak away drain. That gives a discount of £14.37 per six month billing.
Two today. One for up to Nov 23 for £225, another one for up to mid March 24 for £400.
Questioned the figures as basically since I moved in up until mid march 24, I owed around £1300.
I have already paid them £1297.
So to sum up.
Out of the blue get a bill for £1150,00 and being told this is genuine from many of the TW minions.
To now agreeing with them that I owe £2.50.
How can a company be able to operate in this manner?
Maybe they have a job lot of Fujitsu PCs?
A typical household's yearly energy bill will fall by £122 in July under the regulator Ofgem's new price cap.
The latest quarterly cap for England, Wales and Scotland means a household using a typical amount of gas and electricity will pay £1,568 a year.
That is down on the current level of £1,690 a year and is the lowest for two years.
Specifically, in England, Wales and Scotland:
Gas prices will be capped at 5.48p per kilowatt hour (kWh), and electricity at 22.36p per kWh
A typical household uses 2,700 kWh of electricity a year, and 11,500 kWh of gas
Households on pre-payment meters will pay slightly less than those on direct debit, with a typical bill of £1,522
Those who pay their bills every three months by cash or cheque will pay more, with a typical bill of £1,668
Standing charges - a fixed daily charge covering the costs of connecting to a supply - are unchanged at 60p a day for electricity and 31p a day for gas, although they vary by region
What heating system do you have? How big is your property? Do you have high usage equipment (hot tub, EV charger etc...).
Serious answer is that it is the danger of the word ‘average’. It means very little when we include a whole range of properties in the calculation. It’s your consumption level versus the average consumption level.
Take a look here.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/energy/
Latest forecasts suggest bills will increase again coming into winter as wholesale gas costs are on the rise.
Respected research firm Cornwall Insight said it expects the fall announced today "may be temporary".
It predicts a typical bill will increase to £1,762 from October and remain around this level until the end of March.
https://news.sky.com/story/energy-price-cap-average-annual-bill-to-fall-from-july-ofgem-announces-13142275