Well that's yesterday's NI tax cut and increase to the minimum wage wiped out then.
For a typical worker they will be getting £450, this will be £47 of it for a household of 2. Just over 10%
I was being facetious, and I appreciate that it isn't the full amount. but that is for the typical person on the average wage, which isn't everyone.
However, it is annoying and a kick in the teeth, especially after yesterday's announcement, and it isn't just energy prices that are rising, despite the fall in the rate of inflation.
Well that's yesterday's NI tax cut and increase to the minimum wage wiped out then.
For a typical worker they will be getting £450, this will be £47 of it for a household of 2. Just over 10%
I was being facetious, and I appreciate that it isn't the full amount. but that is for the typical person on the average wage, which isn't everyone.
However, it is annoying and a kick in the teeth, especially after yesterday's announcement, and it isn't just energy prices that are rising, despite the fall in the rate of inflation.
The rate of inflation is falling, but its still (well) above 0% and therefore prices are going up.
There is a common misunderstanding in this country, people seem to think that a fall in the rate of inflation means prices go down. Inflation rates going down only mean that the rate at which prices are increasing has slowed, the prices are still going up but just a bit slower than they were.
Well that's yesterday's NI tax cut and increase to the minimum wage wiped out then.
For a typical worker they will be getting £450, this will be £47 of it for a household of 2. Just over 10%
I was being facetious, and I appreciate that it isn't the full amount. but that is for the typical person on the average wage, which isn't everyone.
However, it is annoying and a kick in the teeth, especially after yesterday's announcement, and it isn't just energy prices that are rising, despite the fall in the rate of inflation.
The rate of inflation is falling, but its still (well) above 0% and therefore prices are going up.
I know, that's why I put "it isn't just energy prices that are rising, despite the fall in the rate of inflation".
There is a common misunderstanding in this country, people seem to think that a fall in the rate of inflation means prices go down. Inflation rates going down only mean that the rate at which prices are increasing has slowed, the prices are still going up but just a bit slower than they were.
I'm not sure that is true i.e. the misconception.
'Normal' inflation is closer to 2% and most experience costs creeping up each year generally & don't expect to see wholesale reductions generally.
Uniquely energy has 'spiked' enormously and must (should?) fall again to sums closer to pre Ukraine / COVID levels. Energy (and interest borrowing costs) is somewhat alone in this scenario of expecting a price cut.
If anyone wants to switch to Octopus (only company recommended by Which), I can send you an introduction link which gives both parties £50 off their bill.
I switched in February to their Octopus Tracker November 2022 v1 and have been paying roughly half the capped price. I would have told everyone on CL, but Octopus withdrew the Tracker the same week I signed up & you had to join a 6 month waiting list, so there was no point in me telling everyone.
I don't know if they still offer some sort of tracker because you have to contact them individually. It was a no brainer because you're paying half the price and are allowed to exit the tracker on the same day without notice, when and if the price climbs too high.
I'm still on Octopus tracker and still paying around 25-30% below the cap. Today for instance which is typical, I believe the capped prices are electric 27.35p and gas 6.89p. I'm on electric 16.61p and gas 5.49p. It changes daily but is always well below the cap since I signed up. Tracker is still available.
I am also on the Octopus tracker and I love it. Next, 1 word of warning, 1 question
1. Based on the wholesale price of Gas and Electricity over the last 12 months (I joined the tracker in Feb this year), the following are the peaks and troughs in costs
As you can see, the MAX gas price was 11.11p (+3.71p higher than the price cap), the MAX electricity price was 60.65p (32.03p above the energy cap price). Most importantly, these MAX prices were hit in December 2022, one of the coldest months of the year and the month we are about the enter into (and following which, rest of winter). That said, the average wholesale price over the year was ~30% less than the proposed energy price cap and is consistent with the savings I have experienced.
If we take JUST the December prices, the following stats apply
You can see the average gas price in December was around the same as the energy cap (9.67), but the average electricity prices were over the energy cap by a few pence for the whole month (lets say 10% higher).
In short, depending on your level of risk, joining the tracker just before winter is a riskier bet than joining at the end of Winter to build up some savings, should the wholesale price go above the cap (which is likely based on historic data, even for a bit). Obviously each to their own and, joining in Feb this year, I have saved £700+ on my energy bills already, so definitely a fan of the tracker, just consider when you join.
Now, point 2, and something I don't get.
If the wholesale price for the whole year (as shown in the first pic) is 20.37p for electricity and 5.6p for gas, why at no point this year has the energy cap itself been near this figure but 30% higher? The obvious answer is that the govt and energy companies are in cahoots creaming money off every household, but I am unsure why more are not asking this question. I have no idea how Ofgem calc the price cap, but it sure ain't based purely on wholesale prices (don't get me started on the standing charge on top of the price of the commodity)......
Re point 1, you can come off the tracker on request, so if you're not happy you can exit immediately.
Re point 2, I've been wondering exactly the same. I've no idea why and how I'm paying 30% less than the cap on average. (I joined in February as well).
I’m with Shell Energy who have been bought by Octopus but the deal is awaiting approval. I’ve tried to enquire about their tracker and been told to sit tight. Seems I can’t even leave Shell and join Octopus because of the deal.
Re point 1, you can come off the tracker on request, so if you're not happy you can exit immediately.
Re point 2, I've been wondering exactly the same. I've no idea why and how I'm paying 30% less than the cap on average. (I joined in February as well).
If you leave the tracker you cannot rejoin for 9 months. Again, I love it, but timing of joining may not be best at beginning of winter.
Charging us to maintain the network, some profit and other random hidden costs. Surely this is what the daily standing charge is for at 30p a day x number of houses in the UK (~8mil per day in standing charges with 26.4 dwellings in the UK).
Re point 1, you can come off the tracker on request, so if you're not happy you can exit immediately.
Re point 2, I've been wondering exactly the same. I've no idea why and how I'm paying 30% less than the cap on average. (I joined in February as well).
If you leave the tracker you cannot rejoin for 9 months. Again, I love it, but timing of joining may not be best at beginning of winter.
Charging us to maintain the network, some profit and other random hidden costs. Surely this is what the daily standing charge is for at 30p a day x number of houses in the UK (~8mil per day in standing charges with 26.4 dwellings in the UK).
Absolutely, but if I elected to leave the tracker I doubt I'd want to be rejoining it anytime soon.
I feel the point of my original post is lost. Wholesale prices are likely to exceed the price cap in dec (and maybe Jan, the coldest months). If you join and then leave in the next 2 months as costs escalate, you lose the ability to join again in the summer, when typically wholesale prices plummet (due to lower usage). I believe it is all a question of timing.
We're all going to have to pay more because so many are unable to pay their bills, yet the companies have all been making big profits. So even more people will be unable to pay their bills if prices are lifted again. Ofgem looking after the interests of the big energy providers over those of the consumer.
The UK's biggest supplier, British Gas, reported record profits of £969m for the first six months of 2023, up almost 900% from £98m in the same period of 2022.
Meanwhile, French state-owned EDF reported its UK business made profits of almost £2bn for the first half of last year - including the earnings from its nuclear power plants - up from £738m in the same months of 2022.
Scottish Power reported a £576m profit for the first half of the year and E.On made £723m. SSE reported pre-tax profits of £565.2m for the first half of the year.
Simon Francis, coordinator of the group End Fuel Poverty Coalition, argued it was unfair for the regulator to make the majority pay for a failed system.
"This outrageous tax on energy consumers is simply not fair," he said.
"Energy suppliers have posted billions in profits already this year while millions of people struggle in cold damp homes.
"The record levels of energy debt are due to Britain's broken energy system, not the fault of the hard-pressed public.
If anyone wants to switch to Octopus and their tracker I offered a link a while back. My electricity and gas is still significantly below the government capped price. Both parties get £50 off their bill.
If anyone wants to switch to Octopus and their tracker I offered a link a while back. My electricity and gas is still significantly below the government capped price. Both parties get £50 off their bill.
Forgive my ignorance but what is the problem with having a smart meter? I have no opinion, I genuinely don’t know. (I have a smart electricity meter and a normal gas one).
Forgive my ignorance but what is the problem with having a smart meter? I have no opinion, I genuinely don’t know. (I have a smart electricity meter and a normal gas one).
People have claimed various reasons - Data privacy concerns - Greater remote control by energy companies (such as switching you to prepay) - Don't like being forced to do something they don't like
As per previously posted, I am on a tracker deal with Octopus that requires a smart meter in order to attribute daily fluctuations in the wholesale price. I am fine with a smart meter (as I can monitor my usage) and the deal has saved me £100s since Feb this year (I am paying 4.07p for gas (cap is 9.5) and 14.34 for electricity (cap is 28.5) today alone).
Note: for those considering the Octopus tracker, word of warning. Octopus have already changed the deal for new subscribers earlier in December and how charge wholesale price is calculated. It is roughly the wholesale price + 2.2p on Elec, and 0.23p on Gas. Their reasoning is that 'upcoming legislation' which basically means, we offered the deal too low and we need to start making more money. Current subscribers to the tracker deal pre-11th December are unaffected.
I still think that it is a good deal, but not without it's risks (higher daily prices if unforeseen events occur)
Annual energy bills for a typical household are expected to fall by £268 in April, a new forecast suggests.
Consultancy firm Cornwall Insight says bills could drop to £1,660 under the official price cap set by the UK's energy regulator Ofgem.
Energy regulator Ofgem said the typical dual-fuel annual household bill would go up from £1,834 to £1,928 in January, a rise of £94.
In its latest forecast, Cornwall said it expected bills to continue to fall throughout the year, falling to £1,590 in July before a slight increase to £1,640 from October.
I am very pleased that we decided to have a smart meter fitted, especially since we came off a 2 year fixed deal last June.
The house we rent has a very old gas boiler and it costs a lot to run. Instead of having the central heating on all evening, as we used to, we now put it on for an hour early in the evening. If we need a bit more heat, we may run it for an extra hour, or just use an electric fan heater in the lounge. The smart meter shows that the fan heater is relatively cheap to run.
We have a second generation smart meter and wouldn't want to be without it now.
Will be interesting if new fixed rates are released. The way wholesale prices have stabilised (and reducing) I won’t be biting for a while yet.
Even with the increases I outlined in December to the Octopus tracker, the average daily rate for the last 6 months has been 19.68p for electricity, 4.54p for gas. The wholesale price has been very stable over the winter (probably as it had been quite mild).
In comparison, the proposed April-June price cap rates announced today are 24.5p for electricity and 6.04p for gas.
I remain confused why the price cap remains 20% higher than the average wholesale rate over 6 months other than ofgem are a complete sham and only exist to line the pockets of energy companies.
Will be interesting if new fixed rates are released. The way wholesale prices have stabilised (and reducing) I won’t be biting for a while yet.
Even with the increases I outlined in December to the Octopus tracker, the average daily rate for the last 6 months has been 19.68p for electricity, 4.54p for gas. The wholesale price has been very stable over the winter (probably as it had been quite mild).
In comparison, the proposed April-June price cap rates announced today are 24.5p for electricity and 6.04p for gas.
I remain confused why the price cap remains 20% higher than the average wholesale rate over 6 months other than ofgem are a complete sham and only exist to line the pockets of energy companies.
Comments
Still not seeing any fixed tariffs that are compelling to sign up to which I assume only means the suppliers are not confident in long term forecasts
However, it is annoying and a kick in the teeth, especially after yesterday's announcement, and it isn't just energy prices that are rising, despite the fall in the rate of inflation.
'Normal' inflation is closer to 2% and most experience costs creeping up each year generally & don't expect to see wholesale reductions generally.
Uniquely energy has 'spiked' enormously and must (should?) fall again to sums closer to pre Ukraine / COVID levels. Energy (and interest borrowing costs) is somewhat alone in this scenario of expecting a price cut.
Today for instance which is typical, I believe the capped prices are electric 27.35p and gas 6.89p.
I'm on electric 16.61p and gas 5.49p.
It changes daily but is always well below the cap since I signed up.
Tracker is still available.
1. Based on the wholesale price of Gas and Electricity over the last 12 months (I joined the tracker in Feb this year), the following are the peaks and troughs in costs
As you can see, the MAX gas price was 11.11p (+3.71p higher than the price cap), the MAX electricity price was 60.65p (32.03p above the energy cap price). Most importantly, these MAX prices were hit in December 2022, one of the coldest months of the year and the month we are about the enter into (and following which, rest of winter). That said, the average wholesale price over the year was ~30% less than the proposed energy price cap and is consistent with the savings I have experienced.
If we take JUST the December prices, the following stats apply
You can see the average gas price in December was around the same as the energy cap (9.67), but the average electricity prices were over the energy cap by a few pence for the whole month (lets say 10% higher).
In short, depending on your level of risk, joining the tracker just before winter is a riskier bet than joining at the end of Winter to build up some savings, should the wholesale price go above the cap (which is likely based on historic data, even for a bit). Obviously each to their own and, joining in Feb this year, I have saved £700+ on my energy bills already, so definitely a fan of the tracker, just consider when you join.
Now, point 2, and something I don't get.
If the wholesale price for the whole year (as shown in the first pic) is 20.37p for electricity and 5.6p for gas, why at no point this year has the energy cap itself been near this figure but 30% higher? The obvious answer is that the govt and energy companies are in cahoots creaming money off every household, but I am unsure why more are not asking this question. I have no idea how Ofgem calc the price cap, but it sure ain't based purely on wholesale prices (don't get me started on the standing charge on top of the price of the commodity)......
Re point 2, I've been wondering exactly the same. I've no idea why and how I'm paying 30% less than the cap on average. (I joined in February as well).
Charging us to maintain the network, some profit and other random hidden costs. Surely this is what the daily standing charge is for at 30p a day x number of houses in the UK (~8mil per day in standing charges with 26.4 dwellings in the UK).
Energy price cap hike to help suppliers recover record level of unpaid bills
https://news.sky.com/story/energy-price-cap-may-rise-to-help-suppliers-recover-record-level-of-unpaid-bills-13030748
We're all going to have to pay more because so many are unable to pay their bills, yet the companies have all been making big profits. So even more people will be unable to pay their bills if prices are lifted again. Ofgem looking after the interests of the big energy providers over those of the consumer.
The UK's biggest supplier, British Gas, reported record profits of £969m for the first six months of 2023, up almost 900% from £98m in the same period of 2022.
Meanwhile, French state-owned EDF reported its UK business made profits of almost £2bn for the first half of last year - including the earnings from its nuclear power plants - up from £738m in the same months of 2022.
Scottish Power reported a £576m profit for the first half of the year and E.On made £723m. SSE reported pre-tax profits of £565.2m for the first half of the year.
Simon Francis, coordinator of the group End Fuel Poverty Coalition, argued it was unfair for the regulator to make the majority pay for a failed system.
"This outrageous tax on energy consumers is simply not fair," he said.
"Energy suppliers have posted billions in profits already this year while millions of people struggle in cold damp homes.
"The record levels of energy debt are due to Britain's broken energy system, not the fault of the hard-pressed public.
My electricity and gas is still significantly below the government capped price.
Both parties get £50 off their bill.
Your electricity meter has reached the end of its life. When this happens there’s a legal obligation to check and exchange your meter with a new one.
Click here to book your appointment today to change your meter to a smart meter:
So, my learned friends on CL, what exactly is this "legal obligation" they've put in bold letters?
Ignore.
- Data privacy concerns
- Greater remote control by energy companies (such as switching you to prepay)
- Don't like being forced to do something they don't like
As per previously posted, I am on a tracker deal with Octopus that requires a smart meter in order to attribute daily fluctuations in the wholesale price. I am fine with a smart meter (as I can monitor my usage) and the deal has saved me £100s since Feb this year (I am paying 4.07p for gas (cap is 9.5) and 14.34 for electricity (cap is 28.5) today alone).
Note: for those considering the Octopus tracker, word of warning. Octopus have already changed the deal for new subscribers earlier in December and how charge wholesale price is calculated. It is roughly the wholesale price + 2.2p on Elec, and 0.23p on Gas. Their reasoning is that 'upcoming legislation' which basically means, we offered the deal too low and we need to start making more money. Current subscribers to the tracker deal pre-11th December are unaffected.
I still think that it is a good deal, but not without it's risks (higher daily prices if unforeseen events occur)
Annual energy bills for a typical household are expected to fall by £268 in April, a new forecast suggests.
Consultancy firm Cornwall Insight says bills could drop to £1,660 under the official price cap set by the UK's energy regulator Ofgem.
Energy regulator Ofgem said the typical dual-fuel annual household bill would go up from £1,834 to £1,928 in January, a rise of £94.
In its latest forecast, Cornwall said it expected bills to continue to fall throughout the year, falling to £1,590 in July before a slight increase to £1,640 from October.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67772757
The house we rent has a very old gas boiler and it costs a lot to run. Instead of having the central heating on all evening, as we used to, we now put it on for an hour early in the evening. If we need a bit more heat, we may run it for an extra hour, or just use an electric fan heater in the lounge. The smart meter shows that the fan heater is relatively cheap to run.
We have a second generation smart meter and wouldn't want to be without it now.
Domestic energy prices will fall by 16% in April, according to a prediction by consultancy Cornwall Insight, bringing some relief to billpayers.
It said the annual household bill when using a typical amount of gas and electricity was expected to drop from £1,928 to £1,620.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68055884
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68353627