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Deji Elerewe - won League One Apprentice of the year at EFL 2022 Awards (p11)
Comments
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That isn't showing loyalty, it is just trying to bring through players who can reach the first team and then possibly be sold.Athletico Charlton said:
Of course we showed loyalty. We gave him a free football education which cost us money with zero guarantee he would ever be good enough.superclive98 said:
Why sign a contract if you don't think that it is good enough and other clubs are offering more........ and don't say that he should show loyalty because there is no such thing in modern day football. Charlton would happily cast him aside if they didn't think that he was good enough, perhaps that is why he wasn't tied down at the earliest possible moment. That doubt may now cost us.Dazzler21 said:
So sign the contract if you want to develop with us.superclive98 said:
Because I don't expect him to be given the opportunity if Lavelle, Famewo and Inniss remain injury free.Dazzler21 said:
Why not?superclive98 said:
I think that not playing him would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
What would you do? Continue to play him so he's a) in the shop window and more clubs at a higher level than us put in wage offers to his agent and b) he becomes an established first team player we need to replace next summer.superclive98 said:
Yeah, I'm sure that will work.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I wouldn't play him at all, not even in the U23s.Covered_End_Lad said:Don't think it will be long before we start telling youth players they will only feature in the first team if they sign a contract before. It is what I would do anyway.
If you don't want to sign a new deal then that's your choice but we will have to forget about you, you can come in for training with the U18s but that's it. If you change your mind and want to sign a new deal then you'll be a part of the first team squad.
If he's not even hinting at signing then we might as well not bother with him. And let's be honest i would say in a very high % of these cases, the player nearly always leaves.
At 18 he is not going to become an established first team player (unless injuries to others force it) but he should be a squad player.
None of us know if he is not going to sign a contract just as we do not know the level of the contract that may have been offered to him.
I just do not understand why a player of such potential is not tied down at the earliest possible date, his seventeenth birthday, as It's not as though he has suddenly shown the ability to merit first team performances out of the blue.
18 year olds break into other teams all the time? Why not here? Especially if they're good enough. If he doesn't want to sign for us, I'd prefer we focus on other youth that want to repay Steve & Jason etc.
You do not get very many 18 year old centre backs breaking through to regular first team football because they are not generally physically mature enough at that age.
If every played who comes through that and ends up being good enough goes to the club who offers the most at 17 without signing we should close the academy down immediately as it is a complete waste of money and that goes for every single non CatA academy in the land I suspect.
What about the many young players who are cast aside, what loyalty are they shown?
It is just the way the system works, the survival of the strongest. My issue is with the club not maximising its potential and getting players under contract as soon as they reach seventeen.
Deji should not have pulled on a first team shirt all the time that he hadn't signed a pro contract. This was forced on the club by its poor recruitment early in the Summer. All it has done is advertise further his potential to clubs who may wish to tempt him away.
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I just don't get the argument I am afraid. They are hardly cast aside. They are given a free footballing education which if successful can lead to untold riches. If they are not successful then we typically try to help them find contracts elsewhere, give references, help them find trials etc. We also I believe give players advice/certain education outside of football. Of course if they are not good enough they don't get a contract with us but it is not really different to other education establishments in that way and the players know that from the moment they arrive.superclive98 said:
That isn't showing loyalty, it is just trying to bring through players who can reach the first team and then possibly be sold.Athletico Charlton said:
Of course we showed loyalty. We gave him a free football education which cost us money with zero guarantee he would ever be good enough.superclive98 said:
Why sign a contract if you don't think that it is good enough and other clubs are offering more........ and don't say that he should show loyalty because there is no such thing in modern day football. Charlton would happily cast him aside if they didn't think that he was good enough, perhaps that is why he wasn't tied down at the earliest possible moment. That doubt may now cost us.Dazzler21 said:
So sign the contract if you want to develop with us.superclive98 said:
Because I don't expect him to be given the opportunity if Lavelle, Famewo and Inniss remain injury free.Dazzler21 said:
Why not?superclive98 said:
I think that not playing him would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
What would you do? Continue to play him so he's a) in the shop window and more clubs at a higher level than us put in wage offers to his agent and b) he becomes an established first team player we need to replace next summer.superclive98 said:
Yeah, I'm sure that will work.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I wouldn't play him at all, not even in the U23s.Covered_End_Lad said:Don't think it will be long before we start telling youth players they will only feature in the first team if they sign a contract before. It is what I would do anyway.
If you don't want to sign a new deal then that's your choice but we will have to forget about you, you can come in for training with the U18s but that's it. If you change your mind and want to sign a new deal then you'll be a part of the first team squad.
If he's not even hinting at signing then we might as well not bother with him. And let's be honest i would say in a very high % of these cases, the player nearly always leaves.
At 18 he is not going to become an established first team player (unless injuries to others force it) but he should be a squad player.
None of us know if he is not going to sign a contract just as we do not know the level of the contract that may have been offered to him.
I just do not understand why a player of such potential is not tied down at the earliest possible date, his seventeenth birthday, as It's not as though he has suddenly shown the ability to merit first team performances out of the blue.
18 year olds break into other teams all the time? Why not here? Especially if they're good enough. If he doesn't want to sign for us, I'd prefer we focus on other youth that want to repay Steve & Jason etc.
You do not get very many 18 year old centre backs breaking through to regular first team football because they are not generally physically mature enough at that age.
If every played who comes through that and ends up being good enough goes to the club who offers the most at 17 without signing we should close the academy down immediately as it is a complete waste of money and that goes for every single non CatA academy in the land I suspect.
What about the many young players who are cast aside, what loyalty are they shown?
It is just the way the system works, the survival of the strongest. My issue is with the club not maximising its potential and getting players under contract as soon as they reach seventeen.
Deji should not have pulled on a first team shirt all the time that he hadn't signed a pro contract. This was forced on the club by its poor recruitment early in the Summer. All it has done is advertise further his potential to clubs who may wish to tempt him away.
Money and greed has corrupted the game of course much like it does with most things.6 -
@Covered_End_Lad " I believe you were the person who said first that Deji hasn't signed a contract, or at least an improved one on his 18th birthday. I know you appear to have a contact within the club.
Please tell me you are 100% accurate on this as already guys on CL are running with it ?
I spoke to Deji on Saturday at the valley,(mainly about his short time at Kinetic) I would have asked if his future was at Cafc and then judged his response, even if he said nothing.2 -
Good point and to be clear my comments above are not Deji specific just general ones about lads coming out of the yoof.soapboxsam said:@Covered_End_Lad " I believe you were the person who said first that Deji hasn't signed a contract, or at least an improved one on his 18th birthday. I know you appear to have a contact within the club.
Please tell me you are 100% accurate on this as already guys on CL are running with it ?
I spoke to Deji on Saturday at the valley,(mainly about his short time at Kinetic) I would have asked if his future was at Cafc and then judged his response, even if he said nothing.0 -
If the rumour I've heard of PL interest is true, then we won't be able to match that and we shouldn't IMO.DOUCHER said:
exactly right - the club needs to go at least some way towards matching what he can get elsewhere and although i'm sure covered end lad has supplied the info in good faith, i'd be very surprised if he isn't going to sign if he's offered what the first teamers are getting and i'd also be surprised if he has been offered that based on the things i hear so its alright handing out certificates for making a first team debut but if we are serious, we need to start handing out bigger contract offers rather than crap one's and then negotiating a salesuperclive98 said:
Why sign a contract if you don't think that it is good enough and other clubs are offering more........ and don't say that he should show loyalty because there is no such thing in modern day football. Charlton would happily cast him aside if they didn't think that he was good enough, perhaps that is why he wasn't tied down at the earliest possible moment. That doubt may now cost us.Dazzler21 said:
So sign the contract if you want to develop with us.superclive98 said:
Because I don't expect him to be given the opportunity if Lavelle, Famewo and Inniss remain injury free.Dazzler21 said:
Why not?superclive98 said:
I think that not playing him would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
What would you do? Continue to play him so he's a) in the shop window and more clubs at a higher level than us put in wage offers to his agent and b) he becomes an established first team player we need to replace next summer.superclive98 said:
Yeah, I'm sure that will work.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I wouldn't play him at all, not even in the U23s.Covered_End_Lad said:Don't think it will be long before we start telling youth players they will only feature in the first team if they sign a contract before. It is what I would do anyway.
If you don't want to sign a new deal then that's your choice but we will have to forget about you, you can come in for training with the U18s but that's it. If you change your mind and want to sign a new deal then you'll be a part of the first team squad.
If he's not even hinting at signing then we might as well not bother with him. And let's be honest i would say in a very high % of these cases, the player nearly always leaves.
At 18 he is not going to become an established first team player (unless injuries to others force it) but he should be a squad player.
None of us know if he is not going to sign a contract just as we do not know the level of the contract that may have been offered to him.
I just do not understand why a player of such potential is not tied down at the earliest possible date, his seventeenth birthday, as It's not as though he has suddenly shown the ability to merit first team performances out of the blue.
18 year olds break into other teams all the time? Why not here? Especially if they're good enough. If he doesn't want to sign for us, I'd prefer we focus on other youth that want to repay Steve & Jason etc.
You do not get very many 18 year old centre backs breaking through to regular first team football because they are not generally physically mature enough at that age.
He deserves a fair contract and I believe given CE Lad's comments he's been offered a competitive first-team salary. If he still won't sign, then we need to deal with that.0 -
The madness of modern day football when a couple of league appearances gets you PL interest.Dazzler21 said:
If the rumour I've heard of PL interest is true, then we won't be able to match that and we shouldn't IMO.DOUCHER said:
exactly right - the club needs to go at least some way towards matching what he can get elsewhere and although i'm sure covered end lad has supplied the info in good faith, i'd be very surprised if he isn't going to sign if he's offered what the first teamers are getting and i'd also be surprised if he has been offered that based on the things i hear so its alright handing out certificates for making a first team debut but if we are serious, we need to start handing out bigger contract offers rather than crap one's and then negotiating a salesuperclive98 said:
Why sign a contract if you don't think that it is good enough and other clubs are offering more........ and don't say that he should show loyalty because there is no such thing in modern day football. Charlton would happily cast him aside if they didn't think that he was good enough, perhaps that is why he wasn't tied down at the earliest possible moment. That doubt may now cost us.Dazzler21 said:
So sign the contract if you want to develop with us.superclive98 said:
Because I don't expect him to be given the opportunity if Lavelle, Famewo and Inniss remain injury free.Dazzler21 said:
Why not?superclive98 said:
I think that not playing him would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
What would you do? Continue to play him so he's a) in the shop window and more clubs at a higher level than us put in wage offers to his agent and b) he becomes an established first team player we need to replace next summer.superclive98 said:
Yeah, I'm sure that will work.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I wouldn't play him at all, not even in the U23s.Covered_End_Lad said:Don't think it will be long before we start telling youth players they will only feature in the first team if they sign a contract before. It is what I would do anyway.
If you don't want to sign a new deal then that's your choice but we will have to forget about you, you can come in for training with the U18s but that's it. If you change your mind and want to sign a new deal then you'll be a part of the first team squad.
If he's not even hinting at signing then we might as well not bother with him. And let's be honest i would say in a very high % of these cases, the player nearly always leaves.
At 18 he is not going to become an established first team player (unless injuries to others force it) but he should be a squad player.
None of us know if he is not going to sign a contract just as we do not know the level of the contract that may have been offered to him.
I just do not understand why a player of such potential is not tied down at the earliest possible date, his seventeenth birthday, as It's not as though he has suddenly shown the ability to merit first team performances out of the blue.
18 year olds break into other teams all the time? Why not here? Especially if they're good enough. If he doesn't want to sign for us, I'd prefer we focus on other youth that want to repay Steve & Jason etc.
You do not get very many 18 year old centre backs breaking through to regular first team football because they are not generally physically mature enough at that age.
He deserves a fair contract and I believe given CE Lad's comments he's been offered a competitive first team salary.2 -
So little joy in supporting us. Anyone half decent leaves for peanuts after a few months whilst we flounder around in L1 for the past decade2
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true but the 2 things don't necessarily add up - the upper end of our wages might be £6k/week - thats probably more than the upper end of a deal he might expect at a PL academy - not all our defenders will be on that so if what CEL is saying is true, he may have been offered £3-4k a week - not that far off the possible PL offer - i don't think he would have been offered that or he would have signed, in my opinion, as proximity to first team opportunities will be much stronger plus the ease and loyalty factor - this, and what i hear, is why i reckon he's been offered a much lower amount - i appreciate how difficult it is for us to compete with those circling but if our strategy is to promote the youth, we need to resource that strategy appropriatelyDazzler21 said:
If the rumour I've heard of PL interest is true, then we won't be able to match that and we shouldn't IMO.DOUCHER said:
exactly right - the club needs to go at least some way towards matching what he can get elsewhere and although i'm sure covered end lad has supplied the info in good faith, i'd be very surprised if he isn't going to sign if he's offered what the first teamers are getting and i'd also be surprised if he has been offered that based on the things i hear so its alright handing out certificates for making a first team debut but if we are serious, we need to start handing out bigger contract offers rather than crap one's and then negotiating a salesuperclive98 said:
Why sign a contract if you don't think that it is good enough and other clubs are offering more........ and don't say that he should show loyalty because there is no such thing in modern day football. Charlton would happily cast him aside if they didn't think that he was good enough, perhaps that is why he wasn't tied down at the earliest possible moment. That doubt may now cost us.Dazzler21 said:
So sign the contract if you want to develop with us.superclive98 said:
Because I don't expect him to be given the opportunity if Lavelle, Famewo and Inniss remain injury free.Dazzler21 said:
Why not?superclive98 said:
I think that not playing him would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
What would you do? Continue to play him so he's a) in the shop window and more clubs at a higher level than us put in wage offers to his agent and b) he becomes an established first team player we need to replace next summer.superclive98 said:
Yeah, I'm sure that will work.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I wouldn't play him at all, not even in the U23s.Covered_End_Lad said:Don't think it will be long before we start telling youth players they will only feature in the first team if they sign a contract before. It is what I would do anyway.
If you don't want to sign a new deal then that's your choice but we will have to forget about you, you can come in for training with the U18s but that's it. If you change your mind and want to sign a new deal then you'll be a part of the first team squad.
If he's not even hinting at signing then we might as well not bother with him. And let's be honest i would say in a very high % of these cases, the player nearly always leaves.
At 18 he is not going to become an established first team player (unless injuries to others force it) but he should be a squad player.
None of us know if he is not going to sign a contract just as we do not know the level of the contract that may have been offered to him.
I just do not understand why a player of such potential is not tied down at the earliest possible date, his seventeenth birthday, as It's not as though he has suddenly shown the ability to merit first team performances out of the blue.
18 year olds break into other teams all the time? Why not here? Especially if they're good enough. If he doesn't want to sign for us, I'd prefer we focus on other youth that want to repay Steve & Jason etc.
You do not get very many 18 year old centre backs breaking through to regular first team football because they are not generally physically mature enough at that age.
He deserves a fair contract and I believe given CE Lad's comments he's been offered a competitive first-team salary. If he still won't sign, then we need to deal with that.0 -
I'm guessing that's what happens when you're so young and make the first teamChris_from_Sidcup said:
The madness of modern day football when a couple of league appearances gets you PL interest.Dazzler21 said:
If the rumour I've heard of PL interest is true, then we won't be able to match that and we shouldn't IMO.DOUCHER said:
exactly right - the club needs to go at least some way towards matching what he can get elsewhere and although i'm sure covered end lad has supplied the info in good faith, i'd be very surprised if he isn't going to sign if he's offered what the first teamers are getting and i'd also be surprised if he has been offered that based on the things i hear so its alright handing out certificates for making a first team debut but if we are serious, we need to start handing out bigger contract offers rather than crap one's and then negotiating a salesuperclive98 said:
Why sign a contract if you don't think that it is good enough and other clubs are offering more........ and don't say that he should show loyalty because there is no such thing in modern day football. Charlton would happily cast him aside if they didn't think that he was good enough, perhaps that is why he wasn't tied down at the earliest possible moment. That doubt may now cost us.Dazzler21 said:
So sign the contract if you want to develop with us.superclive98 said:
Because I don't expect him to be given the opportunity if Lavelle, Famewo and Inniss remain injury free.Dazzler21 said:
Why not?superclive98 said:
I think that not playing him would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
What would you do? Continue to play him so he's a) in the shop window and more clubs at a higher level than us put in wage offers to his agent and b) he becomes an established first team player we need to replace next summer.superclive98 said:
Yeah, I'm sure that will work.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I wouldn't play him at all, not even in the U23s.Covered_End_Lad said:Don't think it will be long before we start telling youth players they will only feature in the first team if they sign a contract before. It is what I would do anyway.
If you don't want to sign a new deal then that's your choice but we will have to forget about you, you can come in for training with the U18s but that's it. If you change your mind and want to sign a new deal then you'll be a part of the first team squad.
If he's not even hinting at signing then we might as well not bother with him. And let's be honest i would say in a very high % of these cases, the player nearly always leaves.
At 18 he is not going to become an established first team player (unless injuries to others force it) but he should be a squad player.
None of us know if he is not going to sign a contract just as we do not know the level of the contract that may have been offered to him.
I just do not understand why a player of such potential is not tied down at the earliest possible date, his seventeenth birthday, as It's not as though he has suddenly shown the ability to merit first team performances out of the blue.
18 year olds break into other teams all the time? Why not here? Especially if they're good enough. If he doesn't want to sign for us, I'd prefer we focus on other youth that want to repay Steve & Jason etc.
You do not get very many 18 year old centre backs breaking through to regular first team football because they are not generally physically mature enough at that age.
He deserves a fair contract and I believe given CE Lad's comments he's been offered a competitive first team salary.
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Cant really blame big clubs in a way.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
The madness of modern day football when a couple of league appearances gets you PL interest.Dazzler21 said:
If the rumour I've heard of PL interest is true, then we won't be able to match that and we shouldn't IMO.DOUCHER said:
exactly right - the club needs to go at least some way towards matching what he can get elsewhere and although i'm sure covered end lad has supplied the info in good faith, i'd be very surprised if he isn't going to sign if he's offered what the first teamers are getting and i'd also be surprised if he has been offered that based on the things i hear so its alright handing out certificates for making a first team debut but if we are serious, we need to start handing out bigger contract offers rather than crap one's and then negotiating a salesuperclive98 said:
Why sign a contract if you don't think that it is good enough and other clubs are offering more........ and don't say that he should show loyalty because there is no such thing in modern day football. Charlton would happily cast him aside if they didn't think that he was good enough, perhaps that is why he wasn't tied down at the earliest possible moment. That doubt may now cost us.Dazzler21 said:
So sign the contract if you want to develop with us.superclive98 said:
Because I don't expect him to be given the opportunity if Lavelle, Famewo and Inniss remain injury free.Dazzler21 said:
Why not?superclive98 said:
I think that not playing him would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
What would you do? Continue to play him so he's a) in the shop window and more clubs at a higher level than us put in wage offers to his agent and b) he becomes an established first team player we need to replace next summer.superclive98 said:
Yeah, I'm sure that will work.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I wouldn't play him at all, not even in the U23s.Covered_End_Lad said:Don't think it will be long before we start telling youth players they will only feature in the first team if they sign a contract before. It is what I would do anyway.
If you don't want to sign a new deal then that's your choice but we will have to forget about you, you can come in for training with the U18s but that's it. If you change your mind and want to sign a new deal then you'll be a part of the first team squad.
If he's not even hinting at signing then we might as well not bother with him. And let's be honest i would say in a very high % of these cases, the player nearly always leaves.
At 18 he is not going to become an established first team player (unless injuries to others force it) but he should be a squad player.
None of us know if he is not going to sign a contract just as we do not know the level of the contract that may have been offered to him.
I just do not understand why a player of such potential is not tied down at the earliest possible date, his seventeenth birthday, as It's not as though he has suddenly shown the ability to merit first team performances out of the blue.
18 year olds break into other teams all the time? Why not here? Especially if they're good enough. If he doesn't want to sign for us, I'd prefer we focus on other youth that want to repay Steve & Jason etc.
You do not get very many 18 year old centre backs breaking through to regular first team football because they are not generally physically mature enough at that age.
He deserves a fair contract and I believe given CE Lad's comments he's been offered a competitive first team salary.
If Man City ignore him because they think he's just another 17-year old with "potenital" at League One level, they might regret it if they have to sign him for £70m from Arsenal because they took the gamble0 -
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been happening for years, Defoe was spotted very early and left as soon as he could without playing a first team game. Big Prem clubs can afford to entice talented 'kids' with big money offers and if they fail to make the grade, sell or pass them on. Look at the money Chelsea has made over the past few months, selling young but mature players who were surplus to first team requirements for millions.BigRedEvil said:So little joy in supporting us. Anyone half decent leaves for peanuts after a few months whilst we flounder around in L1 for the past decade0 -
If Deji goes to a PL club how is the compensation calculated?0
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I asked that question above .. my cynicism tells me the settlements are in favour of the buying outfitSantaClaus said:If Deji goes to a PL club how is the compensation calculated?0 -
You get £7 per league appearance plus complimentary chocolate hobnobs and a zoom call with Ged Roddy.SantaClaus said:If Deji goes to a PL club how is the compensation calculated?12 -
I'd love to see a limit as to how many players clubs can have on their books.ForeverAddickted said:
Cant really blame big clubs in a way.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
The madness of modern day football when a couple of league appearances gets you PL interest.Dazzler21 said:
If the rumour I've heard of PL interest is true, then we won't be able to match that and we shouldn't IMO.DOUCHER said:
exactly right - the club needs to go at least some way towards matching what he can get elsewhere and although i'm sure covered end lad has supplied the info in good faith, i'd be very surprised if he isn't going to sign if he's offered what the first teamers are getting and i'd also be surprised if he has been offered that based on the things i hear so its alright handing out certificates for making a first team debut but if we are serious, we need to start handing out bigger contract offers rather than crap one's and then negotiating a salesuperclive98 said:
Why sign a contract if you don't think that it is good enough and other clubs are offering more........ and don't say that he should show loyalty because there is no such thing in modern day football. Charlton would happily cast him aside if they didn't think that he was good enough, perhaps that is why he wasn't tied down at the earliest possible moment. That doubt may now cost us.Dazzler21 said:
So sign the contract if you want to develop with us.superclive98 said:
Because I don't expect him to be given the opportunity if Lavelle, Famewo and Inniss remain injury free.Dazzler21 said:
Why not?superclive98 said:
I think that not playing him would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
What would you do? Continue to play him so he's a) in the shop window and more clubs at a higher level than us put in wage offers to his agent and b) he becomes an established first team player we need to replace next summer.superclive98 said:
Yeah, I'm sure that will work.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I wouldn't play him at all, not even in the U23s.Covered_End_Lad said:Don't think it will be long before we start telling youth players they will only feature in the first team if they sign a contract before. It is what I would do anyway.
If you don't want to sign a new deal then that's your choice but we will have to forget about you, you can come in for training with the U18s but that's it. If you change your mind and want to sign a new deal then you'll be a part of the first team squad.
If he's not even hinting at signing then we might as well not bother with him. And let's be honest i would say in a very high % of these cases, the player nearly always leaves.
At 18 he is not going to become an established first team player (unless injuries to others force it) but he should be a squad player.
None of us know if he is not going to sign a contract just as we do not know the level of the contract that may have been offered to him.
I just do not understand why a player of such potential is not tied down at the earliest possible date, his seventeenth birthday, as It's not as though he has suddenly shown the ability to merit first team performances out of the blue.
18 year olds break into other teams all the time? Why not here? Especially if they're good enough. If he doesn't want to sign for us, I'd prefer we focus on other youth that want to repay Steve & Jason etc.
You do not get very many 18 year old centre backs breaking through to regular first team football because they are not generally physically mature enough at that age.
He deserves a fair contract and I believe given CE Lad's comments he's been offered a competitive first team salary.
If Man City ignore him because they think he's just another 17-year old with "potenital" at League One level, they might regret it if they have to sign him for £70m from Arsenal because they took the gamble
Chelsea seem to always have dozens of players out on loan.
If limits were set then the top clubs couldn't then just Hoover up every young player with potential.6 -
I understand that the compensation will be derisory but there must be some sort of formula that's followed.0
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_Player_Performance_Plan#Changes_from_previous_academy_systemSantaClaus said:If Deji goes to a PL club how is the compensation calculated?
Depends when Deji joined us...e.g.
Thus, a 14-year-old player who spends 6 years at the club (Category 3) will command an initial fee of £46,500 (£3,000 × 3 + £12,500 × 3). Further fixed fees are payable on the player making first team appearances in any professional senior competition:
So as an 18-year old, if Deji has been with us since he was 12 we'd get at a guess £150k for being a Cat.2 club as the age 12-16 section of that article doesnt confirm specifically, we'd then potentially get another £10k as he's made less than 10-senior appearances.
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That's even worse than I thought. I can't see the academy being around in a couple of years if that's the level of reward on offer.0
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You have Ged Roddy to thank for that ^0
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Unless there is adequate compensation, there will just be independent Academy foundations and about 10 Premier League academies because it just won't be worth it.
As it is 90% aren't good enough to be regulars in the first team at cafc and the couple of real talents will be gone before their 19th birthday; Or younger.
Only the late developers like Pope, Aribo and Lookman will play for a period in the first team before moving on up. Nick was 19, and Joe and Ademola 16 when turning up at Charlton.
Joe Gomez and his dad made it possible that the quid pro quo for Joe to play 1st team football at 17 and 18 and then Charlton wouldn't stand in his way was accepted and that's why a low released clause of £3.5 million was reached for one of the top talents in his age group.
The only thing Katrien Meire said that rang true was when Joe's agent would text her every time he wasn't in the starting 11 after his debut.
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SantaClaus said:That's even worse than I thought. I can't see the academy being around in a couple of years if that's the level of reward on offer.
Ged Roddy is the architect of EPPP. I am surprised many EFL teams still have academies at the moment but suspect most won't inside 10 years because of this terrible regulation. I suspect the academy costs £1-2M a year to run so if the very cream are leaving for £150K it makes zero sense.5 -
I got told this no idea how true it is , Chris Gunter was on £900 a week at Cardiff when he was 18 and he moved to Spurs for £4m and was put on £25k a week as a 19 year old after 26 appearances for cardiff
that was in 2008
so the sort of money these Prem clubs can offer is a joke1 -
Exactly that ! Players can go to premier clubs and be on silly money and not be anywhere near even the 2nd string players. I honestly dont think anyone could blame Deji if he leaves, it's the system that is wrong and leaves very little point in having an academy in my view. Sure if a player like Deji is sought after then goodluck to him but the club should be able to get a decent price £150k is ridiculous! For that money I would take a punt on him myself lol0
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Agreed, they get years of free training, not just in football but in "life" skills too.Athletico Charlton said:
I just don't get the argument I am afraid. They are hardly cast aside. They are given a free footballing education which if successful can lead to untold riches. If they are not successful then we typically try to help them find contracts elsewhere, give references, help them find trials etc. We also I believe give players advice/certain education outside of football. Of course if they are not good enough they don't get a contract with us but it is not really different to other education establishments in that way and the players know that from the moment they arrive.superclive98 said:
That isn't showing loyalty, it is just trying to bring through players who can reach the first team and then possibly be sold.Athletico Charlton said:
Of course we showed loyalty. We gave him a free football education which cost us money with zero guarantee he would ever be good enough.superclive98 said:
Why sign a contract if you don't think that it is good enough and other clubs are offering more........ and don't say that he should show loyalty because there is no such thing in modern day football. Charlton would happily cast him aside if they didn't think that he was good enough, perhaps that is why he wasn't tied down at the earliest possible moment. That doubt may now cost us.Dazzler21 said:
So sign the contract if you want to develop with us.superclive98 said:
Because I don't expect him to be given the opportunity if Lavelle, Famewo and Inniss remain injury free.Dazzler21 said:
Why not?superclive98 said:
I think that not playing him would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
What would you do? Continue to play him so he's a) in the shop window and more clubs at a higher level than us put in wage offers to his agent and b) he becomes an established first team player we need to replace next summer.superclive98 said:
Yeah, I'm sure that will work.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
I wouldn't play him at all, not even in the U23s.Covered_End_Lad said:Don't think it will be long before we start telling youth players they will only feature in the first team if they sign a contract before. It is what I would do anyway.
If you don't want to sign a new deal then that's your choice but we will have to forget about you, you can come in for training with the U18s but that's it. If you change your mind and want to sign a new deal then you'll be a part of the first team squad.
If he's not even hinting at signing then we might as well not bother with him. And let's be honest i would say in a very high % of these cases, the player nearly always leaves.
At 18 he is not going to become an established first team player (unless injuries to others force it) but he should be a squad player.
None of us know if he is not going to sign a contract just as we do not know the level of the contract that may have been offered to him.
I just do not understand why a player of such potential is not tied down at the earliest possible date, his seventeenth birthday, as It's not as though he has suddenly shown the ability to merit first team performances out of the blue.
18 year olds break into other teams all the time? Why not here? Especially if they're good enough. If he doesn't want to sign for us, I'd prefer we focus on other youth that want to repay Steve & Jason etc.
You do not get very many 18 year old centre backs breaking through to regular first team football because they are not generally physically mature enough at that age.
If every played who comes through that and ends up being good enough goes to the club who offers the most at 17 without signing we should close the academy down immediately as it is a complete waste of money and that goes for every single non CatA academy in the land I suspect.
What about the many young players who are cast aside, what loyalty are they shown?
It is just the way the system works, the survival of the strongest. My issue is with the club not maximising its potential and getting players under contract as soon as they reach seventeen.
Deji should not have pulled on a first team shirt all the time that he hadn't signed a pro contract. This was forced on the club by its poor recruitment early in the Summer. All it has done is advertise further his potential to clubs who may wish to tempt him away.
Money and greed has corrupted the game of course much like it does with most things.
Clubs HAVE to be able to make a return when they uncover a star, as this pays for all this free education and training.0 -
But I believe academies are receiving 850k per year from the premier league as a result of EPP and the number used to be less than half that. Or at least that's what Roddy said at the CAST meeting. (Exact number may be wrong).Athletico Charlton said:SantaClaus said:That's even worse than I thought. I can't see the academy being around in a couple of years if that's the level of reward on offer.
Ged Roddy is the architect of EPPP. I am surprised many EFL teams still have academies at the moment but suspect most won't inside 10 years because of this terrible regulation. I suspect the academy costs £1-2M a year to run so if the very cream are leaving for £150K it makes zero sense.1 -
Have him speak to Diego PoyetAFKABartram said:8 -
His comment on the call was that under EPPP clubs now received £800k a year each from the PL I think, which is double previous amounts.Chunes said:
But I believe academies are receiving 850k per year from the premier league as a result of EPP and the number used to be less than half that. Or at least that's what Roddy said at the CAST meeting. (Exact number may be wrong).Athletico Charlton said:SantaClaus said:That's even worse than I thought. I can't see the academy being around in a couple of years if that's the level of reward on offer.
Ged Roddy is the architect of EPPP. I am surprised many EFL teams still have academies at the moment but suspect most won't inside 10 years because of this terrible regulation. I suspect the academy costs £1-2M a year to run so if the very cream are leaving for £150K it makes zero sense.
So essentially the regulation used £400K pa payments to each club to buy clubs votes to get it through. In return for this amount the biggest academies now can stock pile talent high with little consideration to whether they will ever be successful at the club as the kids cost them next to nowt (player farming like Chelsea).
Clubs with tiny, relatively ineffective academies of course took the money leaving clubs like ours stuffed. Let's say DE was to sign for us and in a few years we sell him for £4M (not a stretch of the imagination), that is 10years of the EPPP bribe.
I genuinely feel this regulation will screw Charlton more than almost any other club given the strength of our academy and its lack of Cat A Status. How ironic the architect of it ended up working for our club (as did his son).3 -
As a club we have also grabbed good players developed elsewhere. Lookman and Pope are two examples.1
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No I don’t know anything about himAFKABartram said:0
