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Adkins Out? - Match Thread
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at 48 mins in that video from three days ago, he says he would drop down to league one with the right type of owner. I think Wilder would recognise that he won't be getting a Premiership salary unless he gets a very unlikely job back in The PL. Wilder also says he felt in unlikely as most EPL teams were owned by foreigners and the inference was they'd want a foreign manager.Maccn05 said:
Let’s not start the Wilfer or Howe silly season again.CharltontillidieCOYR said:
You tease.... have you heard something or just your own opinion he may consider us ?!Covered_End_Lad said:I wouldn’t write off Wilder…
when goggling Wilders salary I found this from the owners on his leaving the Sheff Utd
We said, ‘no way are we going to pay you £4m, you are resigning. We are not firing you. Why would we have to pay almost one year’s salary?’”
So I think it pretty clear we can’t afford him in a million years. Move on!
Ryan Lowefor me, maybe Matt Taylor 👍🏼
I saw a documentary featuring Wilder on transfer deadline day, he is very hands on.
As per my Sunday post, if Thomas is going to axe Adkins then Roddy etal should be moved on as well. The thing that bothers me most right now is Roddy was discussing Charlton with Thomas before Thomas parted with his cash to buy us.
It looks likely that Roddy was instrumental in recruiting Adkins with his Reading connections in mind....no proof but a reasonable stab given that planning was underway before the purchase of the club, and the subsequent clash Roddy allegedly had with Bowyer. Again, no proof just my feeling there is no smoke without fire.
Im not one for a witch hunt, I just want us to be playing football competitively, we were doing reasonably well recruitment wise pre Roddy and his recruitment team, with Gallen and Bowyer.....cant see why we need a team doing that now analysing statistics....whats wrong with good old fashioned scouting?
The proof will be in the pudding and Id be more than happy to be wrong.7 -
Parkinson gave his all for our club. He had Zero support from ownership. He even dipped into his own meagre pocket to get us a player. Unfair to knock him.cafctom said:Experienced manager at this level usually means someone who is a journeyman that isn’t good enough to operate above League 1.
ie - Adkins, Parkinson, Slade etc.What’s the point? It doesn’t progress us anywhere.11 -
I can see TS sticking with NA for far longer than anybody is comfortable with. He never even sacked Bowyer.2
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Adkins out? Not sure yet but I don't feel anyone could do much more with this group of players. We are conceding goals too easily. We are not creating chances to score.
Cannot see us making play off so is this season just a learning curve ... I didn't hear about this as part of the strategic plan.
If not NA, then who. JJ and JE might top the popular vote but are they experienced enough. To me Curbs is not the answer either. TS needs to make these hard decisions and at the end of the day improve the squad in January.or face the possibility of League 2 football.1 -
Then reappoint him!clb74 said:
What happens if Adkins wasnt the problem?Scoham said:
That's a massive leap from giving them a few games as caretaker to us spending two seasons in L2.SELR_addicks said:The problem with Jackson/Euell is that if they do come in and continue to do poorly. Some people will be so against firing them, that we'll just go on a downward spiral until it's too late this season.
Jackson and Euell will be given the whole season, the players will be blamed and they'll get another chance. Then another poor season and we're a League Two club for 2 seasons.
If we bring in a permanent manager and they struggle we'll have to pay off another long term contract.
If JJ and Euell do poorly a few extreme optimists won't keep them in the job. They can start as caretakers and we'll see if Adkins is the problem, we can't do that with anyone else.
Simples.13 -
poor losses against the Gills tomorrow and Pompey Saturday with little change to the playing style and surely he's gone0
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It was probably equally unimaginative giving Curbs and Gritty the jobs. Some good points have been made. Do we really know how much of this is on Adkins. There were some subtle noises if you sought to hear them that all was no well in the summer. There are questions I have on how hard we tried to keep Aneke. It isn't clear but was it a happy and focused ship as it was say when Powell was building a team.se9addick said:Unpopular opinion because the witch hunt appears to be in full effect but I wouldn’t sack him, yet. My thinking is this:
- the transfer window was pretty decent in the end
- I believe the squad we have should be able to challenge for the playoffs, any less would be a failure of management, recruitment or both
- all that said, the recruitment was only completed 14 days ago (including Souare, who I think is going to be key to unlocking Kirk)
- given the international break we’re effectively judging a manager who has had his full squad for a couple of training sessions and one match, I’m willing to give it a bit longer (but my patience is finite)
Another reason I don’t agree with sacking him just yet is that many of the voices calling for it are at the same time advocating some combination of Jackson or Euell and or Curbishley. I would hate to be associated with minds so unimaginative.
Then we got the business done early and now we had already had a poor start with no pre-season for the new players. I don't get the strategy but who makes the strategy? And how much of an impact has it had on what we have to be frank about, is a disaster of a start? And if it has had a big impact, how much of that is down to Adkins? We don't know in reality.
Where Adkins doesn't help himself with me is the patronising bull he comes out with. Last week he was talking about how well the players had trained. But I appreciate he may not be able to say what he is thinking or he may lose his job. Maybe he is best saying nothing at all than giving us this view of a happy, clappy manager when there is nothing to be happy about. Things will come out eventually and we will know more.
In the meantime, this has to be sorted. The squad is not that bad and we shouldn't be going to league one clubs to stop them. They should be trying to stop us. One thing is for sure as far as I am concerned, if you go to games trying not to lose with brittle confidence you end up losing. Adkins must have some responsibility for that at least.1 -
Things can hardly get worse, and a new manager might make things better.
Tomorrow at Gillingham looks likely to be grim.1 - Sponsored links:
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I wish ESI v2 were still in charge, Dave Jones would know what to do25
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Surely the one thing we’ve learned over the last 15 years is that things can always get worseseth plum said:Things can hardly get worse, and a new manager might make things better.
Tomorrow at Gillingham looks likely to be grim.31 -
I agree with point 1&2. Which is why I want him gone. I thought naively we’d be in with a shout of automatics but that’s arguably gone right? It’s only 12 points but let’s be realistic.se9addick said:Unpopular opinion because the witch hunt appears to be in full effect but I wouldn’t sack him, yet. My thinking is this:
- the transfer window was pretty decent in the end
- I believe the squad we have should be able to challenge for the playoffs, any less would be a failure of management, recruitment or both
- all that said, the recruitment was only completed 14 days ago (including Souare, who I think is going to be key to unlocking Kirk)
- given the international break we’re effectively judging a manager who has had his full squad for a couple of training sessions and one match, I’m willing to give it a bit longer (but my patience is finite)
Another reason I don’t agree with sacking him just yet is that many of the voices calling for it are at the same time advocating some combination of Jackson or Euell and or Curbishley. I would hate to be associated with minds so unimaginative.I’d be with you on this if there was any sort of sign, any sort of whimper or evidence towards us eventually getting results, but there isn’t, what I’ve seen this season is unacceptable in league one for this club.Taking into account our late dealings in the window, which in reality weren’t that different to anyone else’s, Charlton do not start like this, we do not get outplayed and outfought at the valley to Cheltenham, we do not roll over away to a Karl Robinson side, a disenfranchised franchise in MK Dons who only just appointed a manager, Wigan the team we should be competing with genuinely made us look like a team of under 18s.These results would be acceptable in the championship, cos it would be about survival, I can cope with a shit season up there. But I’m not having us doing it in this piss hole of a league, this season was supposed to be the turning point.
I keep seeing this Roddy theory, how in the hell are you gonna blame this geeza for our team that look like they’ve not even trained together? How are we looking at roddy when we got promoted from this league with Roland and no other directors and strategists about with rationale input? Even if he’s a problem I don’t see the correlation between him and what I think is a very capable league one squad providing utter dross on the pitch.
Get a young coach in who’d treat this job like his baby, that includes JJ or Euell as candidates I’d welcome that. Or as someone else pointed out, someone who’s gonna kick a few tea cups at half time, that would be more short term but at least we wouldn’t roll over pathetically every week.2 -
If a striker is being double - or, rather less likely, triple marked - then that means the attacking side have one or maybe two unmarked players…..it’s up to them to use them.SantaClaus said:Stockley reminds me a little of Santa Jr playing up front in an U11 game yesterday. Jr scored 5 goals in the first half (ok no similarities yet) but in the second half he had 3 defenders on him the whole time and almost no support which meant he didn't have a sniff of a chance. Isolated strikers without decent pace are just too easy to defend.3 -
It wasn't imaginative it was cheap!MuttleyCAFC said:
It was probably equally unimaginative giving Curbs and Gritty the jobs. Some good points have been made. Do we really know how much of this is on Adkins. There were some subtle noises if you sought to hear them that all was no well in the summer. There are questions I have on how hard we tried to keep Aneke. It isn't clear but was it a happy and focused ship as it was say when Powell was building a team.se9addick said:Unpopular opinion because the witch hunt appears to be in full effect but I wouldn’t sack him, yet. My thinking is this:
- the transfer window was pretty decent in the end
- I believe the squad we have should be able to challenge for the playoffs, any less would be a failure of management, recruitment or both
- all that said, the recruitment was only completed 14 days ago (including Souare, who I think is going to be key to unlocking Kirk)
- given the international break we’re effectively judging a manager who has had his full squad for a couple of training sessions and one match, I’m willing to give it a bit longer (but my patience is finite)
Another reason I don’t agree with sacking him just yet is that many of the voices calling for it are at the same time advocating some combination of Jackson or Euell and or Curbishley. I would hate to be associated with minds so unimaginative.
Then we got the business done early and now we had already had a poor start with no pre-season for the new players. I don't get the strategy but who makes the strategy? And how much of an impact has it had on what we have to be frank about, is a disaster of a start? And if it has had a big impact, how much of that is down to Adkins? We don't know in reality.
Where Adkins doesn't help himself with me is the patronising bull he comes out with. Last week he was talking about how well the players had trained. But I appreciate he may not be able to say what he is thinking or he may lose his job. Maybe he is best saying nothing at all than giving us this view of a happy, clappy manager when there is nothing to be happy about. Things will come out eventually and we will know more.
In the meantime, this has to be sorted. The squad is not that bad and we shouldn't be going to league one clubs to stop them. They should be trying to stop us. One thing is for sure as far as I am concerned, if you go to games trying not to lose with brittle confidence you end up losing. Adkins must have some responsibility for that at least.0 -
After seeing off the likes of Southall and Elliott, and other leeches, plus the unusual approach of Cafc landlord Roland Duchatelet and his muse Katrien Meire; we are in a worst position on the pitch than we were when a young man in his Brussels bedroom was head of recruitment !
(No, we DON'T want him back)
Will Nigel Adkins Walk ? (No time for jokes) Why is a man who is a course and distance winner in League 1, looking bemused and struggling to find a suitable system to compete in the 3rd tier in 21/22 season.
Can you be too long out the game ? (Yes)
More athletes now in League 1 ? (Yes)
(Not Watson or Inniss etc !)
A chain of command at Cafc which may be hampering the smooth running of the football side of the business (yes)
Charlton fans not dealing well with being in League1 on Merit or lack of Merit. (Yes)
The owner Thomas, who we are lucky to have because of the obstacles put in his way by Roland, going OTT before the season started and raising the bar so high that a disconnect was sure to follow if we didn't hit the ground running: 23rd and joint bottom is the clue to the answer (yes)
Both JJ and Jason Euell are hearing different words, phrases and formations when taking their coaching badges compared to Nigel Adkins. (Yes)
(TBF to Nigel he may well has kept up with all the latest jargon and Methods as he would with the latest sports science on Physiotherapy)
I have watched 3 FA youth cup matches (qualifying) with 16-18 year old players in the last two weeks and I observe and hear the words of the mainly young coaches. Don't agree with all the modern ideas of playing one, two's in your own area ! But love seeing the development of young players and picking out future stars.*
*I saw a talented Rumanian born LB a year ago when he was 16, and after many frustrations with international clearance it looks as if in January 2022 the kid will finally see all the obstacles over come.
( Not Cafc unfortunately !)
Youth football to professional mens football is not about the skill level on the ball because it can be higher at youth level than League 1 downwards, but the Physicality of men's football can stop some talented kids go on to pro careers. Low Pain threshold and niggles has stopped a few lads I know from going further than part time once they got to 18.
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To me the main problem is more to do with the stupidly late recruitment than anything else, although building your tactical game around an old fashioned centre forward whose strength is aerial, not on the ground, is really down to Adkins. Listening to his post match comments it looks like the penny has dropped, as he’s talked about leaving Stockley out to prevent the long ball option. A few of us have been calling for that for weeks now, it seems so obvious. Looking at the Wycombe game it’s clear that the spells where we played ok were when we kept the ball on the ground.Scoham said:
That's not a reason to stick with NA if it's not working. Whatever your opinion on the squad I'm sure the majority agree it's not the 23rd best squad in the division. I expect he'll get a couple more games at the very least so we need to at least see signs we're improving, even if we don't immediately get results. So far we've not shown anything like that, every area of our game is lacking, defending, passing, pressing and attacking. Even the effort doesn't seem to be there.clb74 said:
What then happens to that someone outside if we are not getting the results after 15 games?Scoham said:
Don't give them the job permanently and bring in someone from outside the club.clb74 said:
What happens if Adkins wasnt the problem?Scoham said:
That's a massive leap from giving them a few games as caretaker to us spending two seasons in L2.SELR_addicks said:The problem with Jackson/Euell is that if they do come in and continue to do poorly. Some people will be so against firing them, that we'll just go on a downward spiral until it's too late this season.
Jackson and Euell will be given the whole season, the players will be blamed and they'll get another chance. Then another poor season and we're a League Two club for 2 seasons.
If we bring in a permanent manager and they struggle we'll have to pay off another long term contract.
If JJ and Euell do poorly a few extreme optimists won't keep them in the job. They can start as caretakers and we'll see if Adkins is the problem, we can't do that with anyone else.So major issues:
What do we do with Stockley? For me he’d be great off the bench, but is ineffective as a starter. As he’s so easy to mark out of the game.
And Kirk, who might be a £500k flop? Yes, we’re not set up in a way that suits him, but a winger who hasn’t taken on an beaten a single defender in five or so matches he’s played in? Seriously? Turns out CB-T, who looks much more of a threat and who is hungry, might be a much better bet.
How about the defence? Well, we all hoped that the invincible Inniss/Famewo partnership would continue its uncanny ability to keep clean sheets, but the inevitable Inniss injury issues have combined with Famewo’s dip in form, to leave those hopes in shreds. And while Lavelle may be promising you have add the glaring weakness with both Matthews and Gunter ats the full backs and you’re looking at possibly one of the weakest defences in league one. Soare might well fix the left back issue, it’s a little early to tell. Let’s hope so.
Adkins is clearly floundering, but for me the Wycombe game at least shows he realises the need for change. Sure, it didn’t work, except for a couple of spells, but for me Arter, Blackett-Taylor, Dobson and Lee (and maybe Lavelle) showed glimpses of better times ahead.
Do I think we should stick with Adkins for half a season? No, not really. These things build up a head of steam, and his only hope is to cut out the defeats right away, starting tomorrow at Gillingham. I think if he gets his selection right that’s a possibility, and I’m going to predict a win.The next two weeks may actually be crucial this time.0 -
Something isn't right. It could be a case of too many cooks, I'm not sure how well this kind of collective management works, I've always been more comfortable with a megalomaniac manager who likes to control everything rather than having a Director of Football type role within the setup. It's possible that the bulk of signings came in too late and Adkins is still trying to work out his best team and formation. I'm not sure exactly what's going on, but perhaps a little more patience is required (hi Russell), but I understand people's nervy reactions to such a poor start.0
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Kirk puts me in mind of Ben Reeves.
Reeves was a free transfer.1 -
Think Kirk deserves a lot of credit moving clubs during a tough time in his personal life .. hopefully he can settle down and be the player we know he isseth plum said:Kirk puts me in mind of Ben Reeves.
Reeves was a free transfer.15 - Sponsored links:
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I hope to be wrong about Kirk at Charlton. And Lee, DJ, Arter, and others.
Pratley was not a great player, but he had a great character, these days we seem to have a lot of players who are metaphorically leaning in doorways saying to team mates, ‘you go first, you do it’. I want players who want to be the ones to make a difference. And a manager who can do better than paint by numbers.0 -
I’ve no idea what CEL meant but I suspect it might mean that Charlton for now at least are not a club he’d dismiss out of hand. I think a vision could be sold to him by TS. Having said that I can’t see him working with restraints on player identification and having full control over the football side of things. That would quite possible the Stumbling block.CharltontillidieCOYR said:
You tease.... have you heard something or just your own opinion he may consider us ?!Covered_End_Lad said:I wouldn’t write off Wilder…2 -
Dunno by the sounds of things he was prepared to work with Roland of all people, hasnt he admitted in recent interviews that he only needed to sign the Contract that was on the table. Only Sheffield United came in with an offer at the very last minute.ShootersHillGuru said:
I’ve no idea what CEL meant but I suspect it might mean that Charlton for now at least are not a club he’d dismiss out of hand. I think a vision could be sold to him by TS. Having said that I can’t see him working with restraints on player identification and having full control over the football side of things. That would quite possible the Stumbling block.CharltontillidieCOYR said:
You tease.... have you heard something or just your own opinion he may consider us ?!Covered_End_Lad said:I wouldn’t write off Wilder…0 -
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Nah, he’s re-written history there. ROT had an exclusive interview with Roland and he said Wilder got scared as he had got threats of violence from Charlton fans.ForeverAddickted said:
Dunno by the sounds of things he was prepared to work with Roland of all people, hasnt he admitted in recent interviews that he only needed to sign the Contract that was on the table. Only Sheffield United came in with an offer at the very last minute.ShootersHillGuru said:
I’ve no idea what CEL meant but I suspect it might mean that Charlton for now at least are not a club he’d dismiss out of hand. I think a vision could be sold to him by TS. Having said that I can’t see him working with restraints on player identification and having full control over the football side of things. That would quite possible the Stumbling block.CharltontillidieCOYR said:
You tease.... have you heard something or just your own opinion he may consider us ?!Covered_End_Lad said:I wouldn’t write off Wilder…2 -
No we’re not. We are saying he hasn’t been that good yet. Emphasis on the yet.Bedsaddick said:3 -
You're saying that about Arter based on Saturday?seth plum said:I hope to be wrong about Kirk at Charlton. And Lee, DJ, Arter, and others.
Pratley was not a great player, but he had a great character, these days we seem to have a lot of players who are metaphorically leaning in doorways saying to team mates, ‘you go first, you do it’. I want players who want to be the ones to make a difference. And a manager who can do better than paint by numbers.3 -
Decent managers might come to Charlton if they believed that they would be backed financially regarding players. And by backing, I mean securing a proven goal-scorer and a proven, creative, centre-midfielder....both of whom are fit and ready to go. But they won't, if they are set up to fail from the very start.
So, it's essentially a job for a new starter, for whom opportunity is more of a pull than available budget.0 -
I hope we see more from him than we saw on Saturday given his pedigree. I thought on Saturday he was ineffective.JamesSeed said:
You're saying that about Arter based on Saturday?seth plum said:I hope to be wrong about Kirk at Charlton. And Lee, DJ, Arter, and others.
Pratley was not a great player, but he had a great character, these days we seem to have a lot of players who are metaphorically leaning in doorways saying to team mates, ‘you go first, you do it’. I want players who want to be the ones to make a difference. And a manager who can do better than paint by numbers.
Do you think he was an upgrade on Morgan?
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